Nearly had a fight

[peterjohn]

In the local park this morning a guys dog ran at me from some distance, came up close and was barking at me. It edged to the slight rear of me as I carefully continued walking. The guy had, having called the dog back had been ignored had disappeared around the corner. He had 2 other dogs on leads with him. He reappeared and I told him to get his dog away from me. He told me to calm down. I said I wouldn't calm down and that I have been savaged by a dog. He then said " it's your age " How dare he be so rude.
I told him he was an ignorant twat. He turned, eye balled me and said " don't you f...... swear at me " -" if I hadn't got my dogs with me." implying he would of assaulted me.
I replied yeah, yeah, yeah and walked away.
He called out " next time ." I carried on walking.

What do you think guys?

[Pandapop]

Maybe you should of taken his advice and calmed down like he said in the first place (i'm not saying he hasn't done anything wrong btw as he shouldn't of done the things to you afterwards obviously) because if you wasn't calm maybe it would of just made the dog worse by sensing your anger/fear, so I don't know he could of been trying to help you.

I would have reacted the same way can't stand untrained dogs or dog owners that can't control their dogs same as people with children who seem to think it's ok for their little shits to do what they want.

[Duke of Prunes]

Sounds like you went a bit far in calling him a twat, honestly, at least without knowing more details (e.g. how old was he, what way did he say the offending comment that started it, etc). Yeah, he might have been in the wrong as well by responding with threatening language, but maybe he felt threatened too in some way? Everyone reacts differently in those situations, some better than others.

[peterjohn]

It's very difficult to give a complete and clear picture with a brief account.
As a child I was knocked down by a dog when trying to get an ice cream from the van in the road and bitten several times.

Today when the dog ran at me and made an approach and got in a threat position I remained very calm. I dealt with that very calmly.

What I do object to and I don't feel calm about is dog owners who have their dog loose and have zero control over them. We hear of horrendous cases of children and even adults being savaged. Didn't I have the rational and reasonable right to not be calm, to be angry.
Who is the guy to tell me to calm down, to tell me it's my age. So insulting, so rude. I think he's an ignorant twat.

[Tetsuaiga]

It does annoy me when people dont make an effort to control the dog, if the dog is obviously going too far like jumping up or barking at you. However if you go out in parks theres always a risk your going to come into contact with dogs, the vast majority of dogs arnt dangerous.

I've maybe felt uncomfortable with about 3 dogs ive come across and thats out of probably thousands. Its fine to ask them to keep the dog but, its probably best to say, Could you get the dog away, instead of saying "Get your dog away", it just sounds kinda nasty. Being polite always helps even if you think you're in the right anyway.

[humourlessness]

Originally Posted by peterjohn

It's very difficult to give a complete and clear picture with a brief account.
As a child I was knocked down by a dog when trying to get an ice cream from the van in the road and bitten several times.

Today when the dog ran at me and made an approach and got in a threat position I remained very calm. I dealt with that very calmly.

What I do object to and I don't feel calm about is dog owners who have their dog loose and have zero control over them. We hear of horrendous cases of children and even adults being savaged. Didn't I have the rational and reasonable right to not be calm, to be angry.
Who is the guy to tell me to calm down, to tell me it's my age. So insulting, so rude. I think he's an ignorant twat.

I agree the guy was rude to you. He should be more responsible and sensitive to different people who don't share his love for his dog(s).
I'm a dog owner who hasn't got good control of his dog off or on the leash. But I am extremely careful around small children as my dog jumps and licks(as a way of greeting). This is my bad training. I'm not as careful around adults (my dog is a corgi) but he comes back to me....just not straight away.
It is my first dog so if I ever own another dog I will make sure I have better control of it.
But you're right to be angry with his rudeness, I agree.

[humourlessness]

Originally Posted by peterjohn

In the local park this morning a guys dog ran at me from some distance, came up close and was barking at me. It edged to the slight rear of me as I carefully continued walking. The guy had, having called the dog back had been ignored had disappeared around the corner. He had 2 other dogs on leads with him. He reappeared and I told him to get his dog away from me. He told me to calm down. I said I wouldn't calm down and that I have been savaged by a dog. He then said " it's your age " How dare he be so rude.
I told him he was an ignorant twat. He turned, eye balled me and said " don't you f...... swear at me " -" if I hadn't got my dogs with me." implying he would of assaulted me.
I replied yeah, yeah, yeah and walked away.
He called out " next time ." I carried on walking.

What do you think guys?

It occurred to me that his dogs need to have him on a leash instead!

[peterjohn]

Thank you so much for your comments humourlessness.

For me what stood out was that I justifiable expressed my very annoyed reaction at his dog threatening me and told him what I thought about his entirely not bothered and then insulting attitude towards me. I told him what I thought of him ( and still think of him ) and if he then chose to be very aggressive, then that's his choice.
Such a comfort to know that only 3 out of a thousand dogs actually attack when it's mouth is around my ankle or when I'm a child being savaged.
I was also bitten by a small dog when walking to my local shop from my house. We do have cases where dog owners have made the reckless error of trusting their dog/dogs and their children have paid a terrible price.

[-Simon-]

Much as I sympathise with you, I'm afraid you didn't handle it in the best possible way. I hope that doesn't sound too critical, I totally understand why you didn't appreciate being told to 'calm down' and the situation being blamed on your age when the dog owner was clearly at fault and was, as you rightly say, an ignorant twat. I know it's much easier to be objective when you're not actually in the situation but I think the dog owner will come away from this encounter with no remorse or guilt and will probably paint you as the bad guy when he relates the tale to his friends. I know it would have been almost impossible to stay calm and explain rationally to him why his behaviour and attitude was unacceptable and it possibly would have done no more good anyway.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd have been brave enough to call him an ignorant twat so you should at least take some satisfaction from the fact that you din't just put up with it without saying anything.

[peterjohn]

Than you Simon. I'm satisfied that I had every right to be annoyed. If nothing else this guy might just cotton on that people don't enjoy his dog approaching them in an agresive way.
Do I say in an awfully polite way, if someone's about to throw a punch at me, I'm so sorry but if I'm extra courteous to you would you please mind if it wouldn't bother you too much if you kept your fist to yourself !
If I had so courteously asked the guy to keep his dog on a lead how much likely hood is there that he would of said " of course I will, I'm so sorry my doggy bothered you."

[Eklipse]

He reappeared and I told him to get his dog away from me. He told me to calm down. I said I wouldn't calm down and that I have been savaged by a dog. He then said " it's your age " How dare he be so rude.

First of all how did you tell him to keep his dog away from you? I take it that he was an old man. He didn't care very much when you said you were attacked by a dog before. The moment he was rude by saying "it's your age" (a bit ageist of him wasn't it?) you could've walked away then. Always walk away from a situation before it gets out of hand. When to do this? as soon as someone is rude to you.

[humourlessness]

hey peter john
what would buddha say about all this?
(I'm not being a smart alec)

[peterjohn]

Rosekisses may I ask if you just walk away when someone is rude to you then does that give them licence to be rude to you any time they wish.
How about say a work situation where you have to daily encounter someone who is rude to you.
He was quite a bit younger than me and probably a lot stronger.
I wasn't frightened of him and within 10 minutes had pretty well returned to my current usual state of being calm.
From my point of view I stood up to him and was prepared to accept the consequences.
I've never ever had a fight as an adult and never thrown a punch, but if I had to defend myself I hope I would.

[peterjohn]

An excellent question Humourless.

I met the District Leader recently. He said and I quote " Buddhism doesn't teach that you should turn the other cheek " though he didn't continue to say what Buddhism does teach.
I said, what would a Buddhist do having had his cheek smacked, duck ?

I feel that we can allow people to be rude to us, a form of abuse, or we can react by making a statement that implies being abused is unacceptable to us.

I could of said to the guy that he was being awfully rude and would he please be more polite...........or I could chose language which he might identify with.......I could dare to speak my truth......and my perception of the truth is that he was being an ignorant twat.

Lets bear in mind that the dog might pick on a child next and if child panics would probably get bitten.

Have you ever tried reasoning with the unreasonable?

Have you ever tried asking the bully if they would please try to be kind to you?

If I accepted the often heard dog owner's words of my dog wouldn't bite anyone then nobody would ever be bitten or mauled. There are too many people, particuarily with ferocious breeds, who shouldn't be allowed to keep such animals.

Humourless I'd enjoy continuing the debate. I'd like to say I think you're a fine fellow. Best wishes

Peter

[Progress]

I'm a big believer in calm reasoned responses.

When a person is aggressive towards you, if you give aggression back, they will get more aggressive. Seems logical to me. If you carefully explain the difficulties you have with the situation their dogs have caused and the reason you are particularly scared of angry dogs, then they will calm down. I can virtually guarantee that. There is no reason why you cannot fully express your anger in a calm and reasoned way.

Originally Posted by Progress

I'm a big believer in calm reasoned responses.

When a person is aggressive towards you, if you give aggression back, they will get more aggressive. Seems logical to me. If you carefully explain the difficulties you have with the situation their dogs have caused and the reason you are particularly scared of angry dogs, then they will calm down. I can virtually guarantee that. There is no reason why you cannot fully express your anger in a calm and reasoned way.

Or they'll find you condescending and kick your head in for that reason instead

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by Progress

I'm a big believer in calm reasoned responses.

Me too, but it's not so easy when you're actually in the situation and feeling threatened or insulted. I think it's unreasonable to expect people to remain calm under any circumstance, though I agree it is something everyone should try to do.

[Johnni]

Dogs do this to me all the time when i walk to work at 6am in the morning through a park. Pisses me off tbh as they kinda step in front of me, sometimes bark, sometimes just sniff or whatever but most of the time the dog owners yell at the dog or apologise. On the rare occasion they don't seem to give a shit i tell them to deal with their dog but i do it in a polite manner as there's no need to get angry or arsey about something like this imo. Yeah the dog owner may have been ignorant but he wasn't aggressive until he was called a twat which is the wrong thing to do.

[Progress]

Charlotte, I think the way you reacted may well have been right in that situation.
But I think male to male aggressive behaviour is very different and may be best dealt with in a different way.

[Eklipse]

Originally Posted by peterjohn

Rosekisses may I ask if you just walk away when someone is rude to you then does that give them licence to be rude to you any time they wish.
How about say a work situation where you have to daily encounter someone who is rude to you.

Okay you didn't answer my question though. What did you say to him first?
I prefer to ignore rude people, and especially rude strangers with a dog. Someone at work being rude needs to be disciplined or telling off. Still you can't fight with someone at work or get sacked.

[peterjohn]

First of all I'd like to thank Charlotte for her post, which I thought was spot on. I only wish all dog owners had the same kind of mature responsibility. I respect that there will always be various viewpoints of any situation and I'd also like to thank so many of you for responding.
I actually feel entitled to be very annoyed if someone's dog aggressively worries me when I'm out walking. I repeat that if it had been a child who had panicked my feeling is that they would probably of been bitten.
If I can put this way :everything I said and the way I said it was entirely apropriate in my opinion.

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by peterjohn

If I can put this way :everything I said and the way I said it was entirely apropriate in my opinion. I'm very hard pushed to know how you can come to a conclusion about a situation without being there.

Why ask what we think then?

[peterjohn]

A fair point Johnni, which is why having put the post up I immediately edited that sentance
out. My apologies.

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by CornflakeGirl

But it wasn't. And no one was bitten. If you are so concerned about the children, then contact your local dog warden. Swearing at people isn't going to achieve anything.

Yeah i agree. Someone i knew did this cos a dog was aggressive towards them and worried what it may do to others also (as the park was next to a school) as the owner didn't seem to care.

[Johnni]

^ I think ppl are unaware of them cos i didnt know about them till the person told me they had contacted them. We were thinking of doing it ourselves with the next door neigbours dogs cos they can be aggressive sometimes climbing up up the fence when we go in the garden and once or twice came into the back garden and basically torn up all our rubbish lol. But the neighbours prevented them from climbing up the fence after we talked to them about it cos we felt if we went to the warden they'd hare us lol.
Morale of the story i guess is to conduct yourself in a calm manner as most things get sorted better that way rather than us having a go at the neighbours like my mum wanted to lol, she has a temper!

[Johnni]

They aint chavs, just tramps who keep chickens. I think the whole st doesn't like them tbh. They ain't poor they just don't keep their house looking nice and kept. They wash their dogs in the street sometimes, who does that?.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by -Simon-

Me too, but it's not so easy when you're actually in the situation and feeling threatened or insulted. I think it's unreasonable to expect people to remain calm under any circumstance, though I agree it is something everyone should try to do.

I agree. On occasions, when on one of many power walks, which I have constantly bored you with, I have had various encounters with dogs and, invariably, their owners. No responsible owners should allow their dogs to run up to a stranger, whether it be a child or adult. Either could have a dog phobia. Although a dog lover. I am afraid that I do not remain calm when I have a dog slavering at my heels, or higher up: the adrenaline flows. The fact that the owners quite often thinks it funny, or permissible, and one actually told me that it was people that should be on leads not dogs confirms my opinion that they are not fit to own one. These dogs have totally ruined my walks as I live on my own and the idea of losing half a calf muscle doesn't fill me with joy.

All the best, Theo

[Richey604]

People are depressing.

[Caribou]

Some posts have been removed/edited.

Please report disputes in future, rather than become involved in them, which can cause further escalation and upset for people.