Your thoughts on Cannabis and its "Illegal" status?

[Lifeisagame]

Hi all,

Not like me, but I want to brief here. I am a toker and enjoy the benefits of this wonderful plant. Do you? It helps me with my anxieties and my physical disease.

More to the point. This plant was made illegal in the US over 70 years ago for no legitimate reason, other than to protect the investments of very rich people, who would rather diminish fossil fuels than reduce that burden by investing in hemp which would have changed the world as we know it. The illegality of cannabis is the most antiquated "law" ever.

I will expand my views as replies come in, but wondered if anyone had any views that support the current classification of cannabis in the US (Schedule 1 drug - same Schedule as Heroine) or here in the UK where it is still "Illegal".

Look forward to your replies :-)

[Dougella]

I definitely think it should be legalised for medicinal use and studied more. I think decriminalising it generally is a good idea too.

[Oddity]

It should be legalised, but must be strictly controlled for adults only as the affect it has on growing brains I think has been confirmed.

[firemonkey]

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/rep...nabinoids.aspx

A mixed bag re positive and negative effects.

Cannabis use may harm mental health

A number of studies have suggested that cannabis use can have negative implications for mental health, and from their scientific review, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine conclude that this is the case.

The researchers uncovered "substantial evidence" that cannabis use is "likely to increase the risk of schizophrenia and other psychoses," and the more the drug is used, the higher the risk.

The team also found evidence that daily cannabis use may exacerbate symptoms of bipolar disorder for patients with the condition.

Additionally, "moderate evidence" suggests that frequent users of cannabis may be more likely to report suicidal thoughts and that regular use of the drug could increase the risk of social anxiety disorder. Cannabis use may also pose a "small increased risk" for the development of depressive disorders.

However, the researchers conclude that there is "limited evidence" of a statistical link between cannabis use and the development of bipolar disorder, and there is "no evidence" to either support or refute a statistical link between cannabis use and the development of post-traumatic stress disorder.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315240.php

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Clementine

I think for it to be classed alongside something like Heroin is ridiculous.
For several years I was actually all for legalisation. Various personal experiences have changed my views. I think a return to a Class C classification would be more appropriate but as for making it legal? My answer would be no.

Why not? I mean, not just your personal experiences...

Most people have had some terrible experiences with alcohol for example, a far worse drug than cannabis and yet it is legal.

Originally Posted by Dougella

I definitely think it should be legalised for medicinal use and studied more. I think decriminalising it generally is a good idea too.

Yes, decriminalization is probably the best way forward. Just look at Portugal:

Originally Posted by Oddity

It should be legalised, but must be strictly controlled for adults only as the affect it has on growing brains I think has been confirmed.

I agree, I only started smoking at 25.

Originally Posted by firemonkey

http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/rep...nabinoids.aspx

A mixed bag re positive and negative effects.



http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315240.php

The fact is as you say, that the research is EXTREMELY limited in comparison to other drugs. There is huge potential for Cannabis but the elitists are tentative, hence in the US only state legalization is an option.

My view is that yes Cannabis can bring out mental health issues in people that already have them. I will review your article soon, I think like any drug, moderate use is the way forward. If you take Alcohol
and the Tobacco industry alone they have huge adverse effects worldwide but are still legal and easily available.

Cigarette smoking causes about one of every five deaths in the United States each year.1,6 Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause the following:1

More than 480,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
278,544 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
201,773 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)



https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...ted_mortality/

Just because something may have negative effects, it doesn't mean it should be illegal. Are we going to ban the above and also ban Sugar, fatty foods etc?

It is ridiculous really, especially when you learn the reason it was made illegal in the first place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk

[José Raúl Capablanca]

I posted about this in the NHS thread, and then again here but Opera crashed.

In Short, Legalization does not increase prevalence , So the Brass tacks are Either you tax it and collect 700 million a year towards the budget or you spend 400 million policing it . This is a little facile but it is still the salient point.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by New Dawn Fades

I posted about this in the NHS thread, and then again here but Opera crashed.

In Short, Legalization does not increase prevalence , So the Brass tacks are Either you tax it and collect 700 million a year towards the budget or you spend 400 million policing it . This is a little facile but it is still the salient point.

And we all know how beneficial policing it has been.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Clementine

I think I'm inclined to agree with you actually. I'm not anti-cannabis, I used it through most of my teens. I would want to see strict controls though and I think that's where my fear comes from. Being a parent of teenage boys and some issues we've faced is mainly what has caused me to change my views and made me more cautious. An adult who is aware of the risks and the potential longer term effects of taking the drug should be allowed to do so I suppose. But then there are other illegal substances about which you could say the same... Can I change my answer to "I'm torn" please?

I presume you have similar concerns about booze? This substance can kill your teenager.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

My experience of weed smokers is that they tend to favour explanations which revolve around conspiracy. The topic of weed legalisation is no different.

That seems to match the stereotype.

Can you elucidate on the legislation part of your post please?

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Clementine

Not personally, no. I fully admitted that my reasoning was based on my own fears and personal experience. I don't profess to be right or wrong, you asked for people's thoughts.
If you want to debate people's answers then that's absolutely acceptable but (for future reference) with a subject like this I think that would be a thread better suited to the basement area of the site
Drips like me would know better than to post in it then

Oh dear...

Well, thanks for the tip :-)

It just bothers me that people (not you) can bang on about how harmful cannabis is and how it is such a risk... All the while they fully accept booze as a safe drug.

It's almost hypocrisy at it's finest.

Even before I smoked the herb I was always for decriminalization / legalization for adults. Because it is a freedom that adults should have. Nobody should tell you that you shouldn't be smoking it.

[José Raúl Capablanca]

I find the whole alcohol angle tired , At the end of the day I'm a grown ass man and I should be able to choose for myself. Just don't think that laws are there for preventative measures they are not , they are there for punitive measures, the same actually applies to all laws , after all given how many people are imprisoned in the USA you expect at least some effect on crime rates , right?. Which isn't to say that many crimes dont deserve punitive measures ,or that some people need to be separated from society but your average pot smoker....not so much. Like I said your spending millions policing something that could generate twice as much cash for the NHS as 'that bus' promised .

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

I mentioned legalisation, not legislation. I.e, heavy weed users seem to believe that big pharmaceutical companies lobby governments to keep weed illegal, so that they can sell expensive drugs which don't work as well.

Auto-correct, sorry. New keyboard...

"Heavy weed smokers seem to believe" oK... COMPLETELY your own experience maybe but that is as far as it goes I think. Are you telling me pharmaceutical companies DON'T lobby government to peddle their drugs that kill so many every year?

Originally Posted by Legion

This is usually accompanied by the assertion that weed cures everything from ingrown toenails to ballsack cancer and that the sheeple need to wake up.

It does! It cures everything ever. FACT.

Ok well, not quite everything ever

But, how can we fully understand the medicinal benefits when the US government has it as schedule 1? On par with Heroine? Because researchers, even the government's own, cannot legally do research on it, can they?

Originally Posted by Legion

As for my view on our legislation, it is irrelevant, as weed is no longer illegal for personal use in the UK. The police invented a punishment without the consent of government or the courts because they cannot cope with the vast numbers of people who believe the law is a set of wishy washy guidelines.

Well, yes you will just get a slap on the wrist at worst. Most Police forces agree that having weed as illegal is BS anyway,as you know I am sure.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by New Dawn Fades

I find the whole alcohol angle tired , At the end of the day I'm a grown ass man and I should be able to choose for myself. Just don't think that laws are there for preventative measures they are not , they are there for punitive measures, the same actually applies to all laws , after all given how many people are imprisoned in the USA you expect at least some effect on crime rates , right?. Which isn't to say that many crimes dont deserve punitive measures ,or that some people need to be separated from society but your average pot smoker....not so much. Like I said your spending millions policing something that could generate twice as much cash for the NHS as 'that bus' promised .

You're right, I am tired of it too but it's one of the only angles that your average Joe can resonate with. If you're free to drink booze, you should be free to smoke weed, that is the simple premise of my argument. And if you don't agree then fine, but you're denying people their freedom.

It's crazy, prisons contain a large amount of people who were arrested for possesion of weed. Some given massively disproportionate sentences, purely to deter others. The government love to keep the prisons full of course, and the easy way to do this is to target poor, mainly black people who smoke a f*****g plant. Keeping the business of prisons booming. Not to mention heroin addicts.

Why punish people for having an addiction? That is another debate but still it's BS.

[firemonkey]

I'm tentatively pro legislation and government control with strict restrictions, ie age restriction ,illegal to sell to those with mental illness or family history of such(but then privacy issues re diagnosis kick in- it's a deceptively complex area).

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

I'm tentatively pro legislation and government control with strict restrictions, ie age restriction ,illegal to sell to those with mental illness or family history of such(but then privacy issues re diagnosis kick in- it's a deceptively complex area).

It is, and whilst I agree that people with mental health problems should seriously consider not using cannabis, some people including myself benefit from its use. Or thus far anyway.

The best thing we can do, is ensure that dispensaries of weed label the weed accordingly and have warnings too that mention the possible issues people may experience, if they have a history or family history of mental health.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

I'm tentatively pro legislation and government control with strict restrictions, ie age restriction ,illegal to sell to those with mental illness or family history of such(but then privacy issues re diagnosis kick in- it's a deceptively complex area).

That would be tricky, because some people with mental health problems can benefit greatly from using cannabis (If it has the appropriate levels of CBD and THC for their particular needs). I wouldn't want to be prohibited from using it just because I have an anxiety disorder. I understand the main concern is for people with a history of psychosis and in those cases I think it would need to be strongly advised that they don't use it rather than made illegal for them.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

I sense you may be from the USA. I frankly don't care what happens over there. Over here we have grave problems with healthcare. Drug legalisation advocats maintain that taxation will pay for all the smacked-out bellends that will inevitably clog up A&E with their heroin clogged veins. I know it'll be me paying.

I am actually not from the US. I cite it when talking about cannabis as it is where it was first made illegal and then most of the world, sadly, followed suite, based on the US government's propaganda against the herb.

Sometimes (particularly with weed) the law really doesn't make sense, to the majority. Whether you like it or not the UK will eventually legalise weed or decriminalize it. Almost certainly the former for purposes of taxation.

Yes we have a huge problem with health care. Alcohol is such a drain on our A&E services and Police too. We cannot be sure how legalising weed and other mild drugs might affect our services. But, if Portugal is anything to go by, it won't be as bad as you may think and drug use has dropped since they decriminalized drugs in 2001:

"Levels of drug use are below the European average5
Drug use has declined among those aged 15-24,6 the population most at risk of initiating drug use7
Lifetime drug use among the general population has increased slightly,8 in line with trends in comparable nearby countries.9 However, lifetime use is widely considered to be the least accurate measure of a country***8217;s current drug use situation10 11
Rates of past-year and past-month drug use among the general population ***8211; which are seen as the best indicators of evolving drug use trends12 ***8211; have decreased13
Between 2000 and 2005 (the most recent years for which data are available) rates of problematic drug use and injecting drug use decreased14
Drug use among adolescents decreased for several years following decriminalisation, but has since risen to around 2003 levels15
Rates of continuation of drug use (i.e. the proportion of the population that have ever used an illicit drug and continue to do so) have decreased16"



http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-dec...ecord-straight

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by MissKitty

People can't cope with free access to sugar and carbs so I don't think cannabis should be legalised but if you can prove it is relatively safe in its original form then changing its classification is probably a good idea.

Again, if there are other drugs that can kill you within minutes, but they are legal, smoking a joint really doesn't seem so bad.

I am more interested in giving people with illnesses access to a drug that is naturally occurring and can help them... but still, recreational use for adults should also be accessible.

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by Dougella

That would be tricky, because some people with mental health problems can benefit greatly from using cannabis (If it has the appropriate levels of CBD and THC for their particular needs).

Which raises the need for control of the supply chain. Incentives to produce high CBD strains, penalties for strains with too much THC.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

Which raises the need for control of the supply chain. Incentives to produce high CBD strains, penalties for strains with too much THC.

I agree with an incentive scheme. However. I wouldn't want to penalize produce of high THC weed. As some people love that. Like some people like 50% strength booze...

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by Lifeisagame

I agree with an incentive scheme. However. I wouldn't want to penalize produce of high THC weed. As some people love that. Like some people like 50% strength booze...

So you're pro Cannabis regardless and the (mental) health risks be damned.
This is where I fall out with the rabid/reactionary pro cannabis camp.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

So you're pro Cannabis regardless and the (mental) health risks be damned.
This is where I fall out with the rabid/reactionary pro cannabis camp.

I wouldn't say that. Have you read my previous posts? On this very thread...

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by Lifeisagame

I wouldn't say that. Have you read my previous posts? On this very thread...

That post contradicted your previous posts. If you really care about the mental health effects then you don't want high THC strains of cannabis circulating.

[firemonkey]

I think there's a problem in that some people want cannabis legalised regardless of strain and subsequent effects.

With legalisation there has to be responsibility .

[José Raúl Capablanca]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

I think there's a problem in that some people want cannabis legalised regardless of strain and subsequent effects.

With legalisation there has to be responsibility .

CBD good-THC Bad is shockingly over simple and completely baseless, there aren't this group of evil super strains , that's laughable it's the stuff of 'Refer Madness'.

[firemonkey]

It really tests how far the boundaries of libertarianism should go.

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by New Dawn Fades

CBD good-THC Bad is shockingly over simple and completely baseless, there aren't this group of evil super strains , that's laughable it's the stuff of 'Refer Madness'.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by aloneuntilidie

^^^Given that many of the side-effects, particularly those which impact upon mental health like paranoia, anxiety and psychosis, are attributed to high THC strains, wouldn't it be better to have cannabis legalised with controls over the strains produced rather than not have it legalised?

I feel that stronger strains should still be legal. We're adults we can make informed decisions like we do with other aspects of life.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

That post contradicted your previous posts. If you really care about the mental health effects then you don't want high THC strains of cannabis circulating.

It does not.

We can make informed decisions about what we want. I may like to try stronger strains occasionally. How is that going to have a n adverse impact on my long-term mental health?

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

I don't mind if it is legalised (providing that taxation is directly spent on clearing up the inevitable mess, and if any extra funds are needed then drug users will be charged for their healthcare).

Also, once most of the young people are hooked on this rubbish my job prospects will improve massively.

Just sticking to weed legalization for a moment, what mess are you referring to?

I presume you say that in jest - about your job prospects?