SA loner men - dating normal women and being exposed has not having friends

[SAperson]

Originally Posted by Zackary

I apologise for being harsh, I was trying not to be but I was feeling quite frustrated at what you wrote. Your post came across to be attacking people with SA, especially the first line, "My god the level of negativity here is astonishing!".

I do think I'm funny as it goes personally, but I know many find it hard to be. I do too unless I feel relaxed with someone.

I do WANT to put myself out there and I try so hard to, but only online in forums like this. I don't go out to meet people but I really do want to SO much, and it drives me (and others!) crazy that I can't bring myself to do it.

Oh well, no hard feelings and have a nice day.

No worries mate

I know how hard it is, thats why its taken me so long. I wasnt trying to be patronizing or attacking anyone in anyway. I was mostly annoyed at cynic tbh, because afte reading his replies i started feeling like whats the point.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by SAperson

As long as you are semi good looking and can make her laugh, you WILL be able to get a girlfriend. You just have to put yourself out there.

So if someone is less than semi good looking and doesn't make a girl laugh, he won't be able to get a girlfriend?

Sorry, I don't mean that too seriously, but I agree with Zackary, the wording of your post was perhaps not ideal, but I see you were trying to be positive. I see you are new hear so I can understand. I joined not too long ago and made some serious errors in posting.
There are quite a few here with very serious issues about how they look. They see themselves as ugly when in fact they are not at all - I know I've met some and they are all good looking guys.
So maybe it's better to say - whatever qualities you do or don't have, there's no reason why you can't get a girlfriend. Because I think part of recovery from SA is to be comfortable with ourselves even if we lack a particular quality.
Hope I'm not being patronising, but I've just been through a similar experience of learning something about the people on the forum to prevent foot in mouth!

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Realism, not negativity.

No it's negativity. You've got to try and turn that around. Positive thinking is so important to moving on. I know what you mean though, when so many things have gone wrong/not succeeded, the reality is a negative one. But you've got to find those little successes and push them to the front of your mind and keep repeating them to build some positive thinking. A person who thinks he will fail, almost certainly will. A person who thinks he will succeed has a good chance of success.

I have to battle negative thinking, but I do fight it. That's why I agree with SAperson in that I hate reading negative posts here, probably because it just reminds me of a side of my own mind I don't like and wish to banish.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by SAperson

My god the level of negativity here is astonishing! Especially from that "cynic" guy, basically saying if you didnt have a million friends by age 8 you will never have any.

Its VERY possibly to meet friends no matter how many friends you have. I moved around a lot in my life. First country that I lived in and was born in, I had loads of friends(that was before sa came). At age 11, I moved half way across the world. I ddi not know anyone, and yet was able to make a fair amount of friends(that was after sa kicked in, so no excuses for not being able to make any). About a year ago, I moved again, met a girl and wanted to be with her. I have been a bit of a recluse and dont have any friends here yet, but thats purely my fault. I am trying to join clubs and find some part time work, and I feel like there is a good chance I can make friends.

People dont have friends for many reasons, such as moving somewhere new, and its totally normal. Fair enough, a lot of you havent moved as much as me, but my point is, not only is it possible to make friends, but women DONT care as much as you think about you having loads of friends.

As long as you are semi good looking and can make her laugh, you WILL be able to get a girlfriend. You just have to put yourself out there.

I've sort of avoided this thread for ages. I've never seen myself as an ''SA loner man'' and I never really like the ''normal women/normal men'' way of looking at things, so I've given it a swerve.

Anyway, I was just reading your post SAperson. To be honest, I used to a deeply depressing and ultra-negative person. These days I'm more positive with an nod towards realism too. And by realism I mean the fact that there is good and bad everywhere. There is happy/sad. Up/down. Realism encompasses all those things. Realism is not the same as negativity.

I can see what you are saying, but I can also see why Zackary and others were a little upset at the tone. Anyway, there will always be negative views on here. If I had the internet when I was a bit younger I'd have posted some pretty dark, depressing and disturbing stuff. As it stands, that's all in my diary/journal instead. I think naming and expressing our more negative thoughts can be part of processing them and eventually moving on. I think it's great that on here people's feelings, however dark, are generally respected, but also gently challenged at times. This can be useful all round. Sometimes though, a more robust challenge feels like an attack, hence people can get upset. Good points get lost in the overall tone of a post.

I know Cynic doesn't need anyone to fight his corner, but what the hell, I'm going to say this anyway. He's a decent guy who has gone through a lot of bad stuff. I don't always agree with him and I often think he's his own worst enemy, but I love the guy anyway, and I can see why he thinks and feels the way he does. He knows I tear my hair out reading him sometimes, and he probably thinks I'm some kind of hippy sitting on a fluffy cloud chanting meaningless positive affirmations, but I'd still like to think we both can learn something, however small, from each other at times. I think if we are respectful of each other the mix here is a good one and we can all gain something from being here.

I'm generally with you on this one. I'm living proof that the SA male can do ok in relationships. But as I said before, I don't see myself as any ''SA loner'' battling against a world of ''normals.'' I know it is very possible, and quite probable for us to find partners and friends.

The looks angle? Well looks do help in life, but looks are also extremely subjective, as is humour. There is a place for all. As Progress said, it's more about the qualities of the human being.

Getting out there? Such simple, yet ultimately correct advice. But also a red rag to a bull on an SA forum if not pitched sensitively enough. SA is all about experiential avoidance. Avoindance of situations and avoidance of distressing physical and emotional feelings. So we can never fully get better unless we do get out there and work through our feelings and face up to our fears. But doing so is often a difficult step and support and understanding is often needed. I think the majority of SA people really do desperately want to be ''out there'' but for numerous reasons feel, as yet, that they can't be.

I suppose what I'm saying is that it's often not what we say on the forum, it's how we say it that counts. As a poster of generally more positive views, I'm forever trying to pitch it just right so as not to offend, and I don't always get it right either, even after posting here for the best part of ten years.

[Vastaux]

Originally Posted by SAperson

As long as you are semi good looking and can make her laugh, you WILL be able to get a girlfriend. You just have to put yourself out there.

Oh dear, I'm ****ed then

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Benfica

I know Cynic doesn't need anyone to fight his corner, but what the hell, I'm going to say this anyway. He's a decent guy who has gone through a lot of bad stuff. I don't always agree with him and I often think he's his own worst enemy, but I love the guy anyway, and I can see why he thinks and feels the way he does. He knows I tear my hair out reading him sometimes, and he probably thinks I'm some kind of hippy sitting on a fluffy cloud chanting meaningless positive affirmations, but I'd still like to think we both can learn something, however small, from each other at times. I think if we are respectful of each other the mix here is a good one and we can all gain something from being here.

Ahhh! You say things with so much more tact than I do, I really should give up!!!
But seriously, another highly insightful post, well written.
For my part, maybe I need to learn when to keep my mouth shut sometimes. My desire to help and my desire to attack get mixed up in my mind sometimes. So apologies Cynic if my post didn't take into account your history which I know nothing about. I guess I stand by what I was trying to say, but Benfica has phrased it in a much better way.

Myself along with many here are concerned about being too quiet. But I know when I open my mouth sometimes a whole load of crap comes out, so I think it's good to learn there can be nothing wrong with silence at times. And learning to come to terms with my really quite attacking nature is something for me personally to look at.

[SAperson]

I guess my post mightve offended some people. As I already said, i am sorry if it did offend anyone. I am not very tactful with my words sometimes, I tend to just write what I am thinking at the moment and sometimes don't reflect on it long enough.


Cynic - it is negativity and not realism. You literally said that it's impossible to make friends if you dont have any, and I disagree, based on my own experiences and that of others. I feel like the way you look at things are very simplistic and almost teen like. I understand you may be in a dark place, but you surely cannot believe everything you write?

You actually said that "most men are alpha males". Do you even know what an alpha male is? Because a tiny percentage of males are actualy alpha. Most are followers. If there is a group of friends, only 1 is alpha. Only a 5-10% are alpha, if that. So saying your not an alpha male and therefore cannot get a woman is beyond ridiculous.


Benefica - I really enjoy your posts, hope I can be as tactful as you one day hehe.

[Belinda]

Originally Posted by Benfica

I can see what you are saying, but I can also see why Zackary and others were a little upset at the tone. Anyway, there will always be negative views on here. If I had the internet when I was a bit younger I'd have posted some pretty dark, depressing and disturbing stuff. As it stands, that's all in my diary/journal instead. I think naming and expressing our more negative thoughts can be part of processing them and eventually moving on. I think it's great that on here people's feelings, however dark, are generally respected, but also gently challenged at times. This can be useful all round. Sometimes though, a more robust challenge feels like an attack, hence people can get upset. Good points get lost in the overall tone of a post.

I know Cynic doesn't need anyone to fight his corner, but what the hell, I'm going to say this anyway. He's a decent guy who has gone through a lot of bad stuff. I don't always agree with him and I often think he's his own worst enemy, but I love the guy anyway, and I can see why he thinks and feels the way he does. He knows I tear my hair out reading him sometimes, and he probably thinks I'm some kind of hippy sitting on a fluffy cloud chanting meaningless positive affirmations, but I'd still like to think we both can learn something, however small, from each other at times. I think if we are respectful of each other the mix here is a good one and we can all gain something from being here.


I suppose what I'm saying is that it's often not what we say on the forum, it's how we say it that counts. As a poster of generally more positive views, I'm forever trying to pitch it just right so as not to offend, and I don't always get it right either, even after posting here for the best part of ten years.

Benfica, it's really great that you see the different sides of the argument and can empathise with both positive and negative. I think I went through a phase about a year ago of thinking you were a bit too positive and err.. 'fluffy' but lately I've been really enjoying your posts. It's great how you and Cynic have bonded a bit despite having such different perspectives. I really appreciate how much tact and care goes into your posts.

[Geoff]

Benfica - You have an amazing way with words! I used to think I did, and maybe I still do think that compared to many people, but compared to you I'm a complete......well whatever the word is for someone useless at wording things!

Thanks for putting things so well, and for making sense of things that most of us are thinking.

[LittleMissMouse]

Originally Posted by ursula

so there's the whole 'crazy cat lady' stereotype which is fairly patronizing.

This.

This is my single biggest fear in life; being perceived as, or actually being, a crazy cat lady (and I hate cats), but I am at one with the fact that it is probably my destiny.

If you're female, and single, once you hit 30, the fear of becoming a crazy cat lady becomes the ever present sword of damocles looming over you.

[jay9]

My girlfriend doesn't have SA but she is quite the shy type and doesn't have loads of friends or anything, we've been together nearly three months and although I have very few friends and don't socialise, I feel comfortable with her and I'm not "exposed."

Originally Posted by SAperson

As long as you are semi good looking and can make her laugh, you WILL be able to get a girlfriend. You just have to put yourself out there.

Not sure about "semi good looking" but I see what you mean, theres no need to be so negative about these things. Obviously luck is going to play a large part though.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Making friends is like seeking employment. You need experience and references and lack of which will lead to being pushed out IME.

No it isn't, not true, if you have that problem, then you must be trying to make friends with the wrong people.

[GoldFish]

The stigma around lonely people is based from mainstream television shows. In reality i know very chatty people that are loners. I know quiet people who have friends. I know quiet people who are loners or for a better word are individualistic and solitary. I know of people who are visa versa.

The prejudice against people like this often comes up amongst very arrogant gossipy type people in group situations. The irony being that alot of the time the people speaking nastily of loners often are loners themselves or have miserable existances themselves.

The best advice is to just not think about it. Don't allow others to dictate your mood or actions based on some flimsy opinion that was probably vented out of "Having nothing better to talk about".

[diplodocus]

Right been thinking; to the people who think women are judged as harshly for being loners, answer me this: How often do women get called weirdos by men? How often do men get called weirdos by women?
Now obviously I'm making a bit of an assumption that loner=weirdo but more often than not that seems to be the case.

[WeiJingsheng]

Originally Posted by diplodocus

Right been thinking; to the people who think women are judged as harshly for being loners, answer me this: How often do women get called weirdos by men? How often do men get called weirdos by women?
Now obviously I'm making a bit of an assumption that loner=weirdo but more often than not that seems to be the case.

I'm not sure there is much of a difference really, I think women would judge loners of their gender more negatively than men (just speculating). The reason why it seems men are more accepting is because women can afford to be more selective with their partners. Though, it becomes irrelevant when we you consider that these are generalisations...

[Belinda]

Diplodocus, hi again! I've been called a weirdo by men quite often and by women too. The one I most often used to receive was 'oddball'- a friend's brother thought I was one of these as I didn't speak. At least men don't (usually) accuse female loners of being pervy or predatory, which is indeed a good thing. But before I met my partner I had many years of being a female loner and maybe the criticism is more subtle than it is for male loners but it certainly doesn't exclude being called a weirdo quite often.

[Vastaux]

Argh, jest been asked the fateful "Tell me about your family and friends" by a girl i'm talking to online... That's the end of that, i feel i should just come clean and tell the truth but the embarressment is to high!

[Vastaux]

Originally Posted by nineofswords

well that's one according to mr partridge!

He's calling her weird for being on her own and being a "loner" as well... oh the irony

[Ember]

Originally Posted by diplodocus

Right been thinking; to the people who think women are judged as harshly for being loners, answer me this: How often do women get called weirdos by men? How often do men get called weirdos by women?

Actually my weirdness is what initially attracts people, and then is eventually the major turn off. People say it in a jokey way, but when you hear people making the psycho jokes a certain number of times, it gets old and hurtful. Oh and this is mostly by men.

The worst thing is when you think you are making a decent impression, not too shy and introverted, then after the break up it turns out they thought you were a freak and their family all disliked you for it.

[diplodocus]

I must be living on a different planet then because in my experience men get called wierdos far more often than women, I mean many times more. Definitely by the opposite sex anyway.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by diplodocus

I must be living on a different planet then because in my experience men get called wierdos far more often than women, I mean many times more. Definitely by the opposite sex anyway.

Without in any way ignoring the real life experience of females in this thread and beyond, my perception has always been similar you your own on this one. Not being female myself obviously gets in the way of me having personal experience on the subject, but I've always seen it as mostly men who find themselves being called 'weirdos' by other men as well as women.

I'm acknowledging that it does happen to females too, as this thread suggests, but in my experience it's far more often said about males, and often with a really disturbing slant added for good measure. That slant usually being sexual, as in paedophile, dodgy porn collector, abuser, predator etc..

When I was younger I was, behind my back, called a 'weirdo' and a 'psycho' by the parents of a girl I was going out with for years. This was because of my SA and related mental health issues. The phrase ''it's always the quiet ones you have to watch'' got a fairly regular airing behind my back too.

Although I'm sure it happens, I don't ever recall hearing a woman being called a 'weirdo' by another woman. Although I have heard some women refer to other females who keep themselves to themselves as ''dried up old prunes.''

All this is nasty stuff no matter who says it and who is on the receiving end of it. I see it much more aimed at men, but going on the experiences of females here, it happens to them too.

[LittleMissMouse]

^I think for men its more of a sliding scale ranging from independent and a bit unconventional to full on Norman Bates type weird but for women it seems to be more binary - crazy cat lady or not crazy cat lady, which although dependent on your weird threshold probably puts more men in the bit weird category, the proportion of men who are deemed full on weird is probably quite low.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by LittleMissMouse

^I think for men its more of a sliding scale ranging from independent and a bit unconventional to full on Norman Bates type weird but for women it seems to be more binary - crazy cat lady or not crazy cat lady, which although dependent on your weird threshold probably puts more men in the bit weird category, the proportion of men who are deemed full on weird is probably quite low.

Talking of 'crazy cat ladies' I recall when I was really quite young. Maybe around five or six years old. There was a woman who lived alone and over the road from us, and as far as I recall she just kept herself to herself and didn't get involved with the neighbours.

Anyway, I remember her being referred to as ''the witch'' and us kids on the street were terrified of her. We'd run home and hide behind the front door peering out through the letterbox as she went past and into her house.

In more recent times I have wondered what she was going through back then, and how the reaction of the kids in the neighbourhood must have affected her. I wish I could say sorry to her now.

Originally Posted by VinceMasuka

That is awful.

Yep, it was. But to be fair to them in a way, I did act like a complete fruitcake at times. I was ridiculously insecure and my SA was rampant. Put it this way, I'd not have wanted a daughter of mine (if I had one) having such an intense relationship with a guy like I was back then. Those were ignorant days and if I were a Dad back then I'd have been worried too. Her parents were totally ignorant on mental health issues, as I was too, even though I was living with one. But no, it's horrible when you are in a desperately bad place and people call you such things behind your back and laugh at your expense.

These days, me being me and knowing what I do now. If my hypothetical daughter was in a deep relationship with a guy like the lad I used to be, I'd do all I could to get him the help he needed. I'd sit down with the poor guy and talk with him and try to understand him. I know that would have made immense difference to me back then if someone had tried to understand and help me rather than ridicule me and fuel the problem further.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Benfica

Yep, it was. But to be fair to them in a way, I did act like a complete fruitcake at times.

So you were a weirdo. If I may play devil's advocate.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by seth brundle

^ meh my own personal experience of having been interested in art and music all my life is that people call me a faggot. if a girl plays an instrument or is good at art its seen as hot, if a guy does it, why isnt he out at the football or drinking? faggot

Do you respect the people that call you that?
Put another way, do you respect their opinions?

[Progress]

Originally Posted by seth brundle

wow can of worms alert. someone having the guts to admit that we do act weird xD


if we met ourselves we'd probably make ourselves feel very nervous and end up ranting on here about this freak we met today and everyone would rush to say what a bastard they were, how rude and inconsiderate and how dare they

Yes, I am ducking!

What I'm trying to get at is - can we be comfortable with our weirdnesses (is that a word?)

There are plenty of eccentrics who act plain weird (some utterly bonkers) and are perfectly happy in life. They just don't care what others think of them.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Progress

So you were a weirdo. If I may play devil's advocate.

Suppose it depends on how you look at it. If having mental health problems = weirdo, then yes.

But if having mental health problems = you do strange things sometimes and need support, then no.

I tend to go with the second scenario.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Benfica

Suppose it depends on how you look at it. If having mental health problems = weirdo, then yes.

But if having mental health problems = you do strange things sometimes and need support, then no.

I tend to go with the second scenario.

Yeah, I'm just playing devil's advocate. And wondering about the best way to deal with people calling us weirdos behind our back (or to our face)

[girlinterrupted]

I think that for anyone of any sex being a "loner" or alone is usually seen by the majority as odd or weird,not with one sex seen as more weird than the other,just weird in different ways maybe. From my own observations I usually see women who fit this criteria being judged slightly more pityingly though,as some poor sad tragic nutjob or failure. Men who live or behave in the same way seem to be found directly threatening on some level,that they must be some sort of potential stalker/pervert/heaven-knows-what-else.

As for what Progress mentioned about accepting "our weirdness" I think I said this in another thread recently about being called a weirdo or loner - by most people`s standards I am weird (and I`m definitely a loner),and that`s ok with me. By my standards the opinions of anyone who would treat me badly because of that are of no interest to me,so it works out well all round

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by seth brundle

wow can of worms alert. someone having the guts to admit that we do act weird xD


if we met ourselves we'd probably make ourselves feel very nervous and end up ranting on here about this freak we met today and everyone would rush to say what a bastard they were, how rude and inconsiderate and how dare they

I do understand why it happens. But when a women does this, she's just really shy or maybe stuck up, not weird. Just imho

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by Progress

There are plenty of eccentrics who act plain weird (some utterly bonkers) and are perfectly happy in life. They just don't care what others think of them.

They probably don't suffer from SA! A lot of us are on here because SA causes us to act weird or more weird at least lol