Have you ever taken a moment to realise just how awful you really are?

[Sunrise]

Sometimes I think "maybe I'm not so bad?", but I find if I try and look objectively at how I behave, the things I think, the way I act etc, it's quite an eye opener just how awful I am. I've been trying to think how I would feel if I met someone else like me, and I think I would be horrified.

I wonder how common it is to become stuck in a rut blaming everyone but yourself for your failings. That in itself is a pretty off-putting trait. It's a strange paradox of low self-esteem because some people like myself have low self-esteem because we are actually pretty horrible people. It's something that's not really discussed but seems quite common, just look at your average "red pill" type. Some people are probably just more aware of their shortcomings.

When I think about it even at a very young age I was pretty despicable. People who are hated tend to be so for good reason. Can I blame "shyness" for a lack of friends? No, because that's not a reason to dislike someone. I lack social skills, but the biggest barrier is probably that I'm so filled with venom, bile and bitterness. No amount of fake niceness can disguise that.

I say I'd love to become a genuinely nice person, but I'm not sure if I just don't know how too or if deep down I don't want to. My whole persona and identity has been formed around being an embittered loser. I think I'd feel lost if that changed.

[choirgirl]

You really aren't awful.

If you feel your identity no longer serves you, by all means let it go. Be lost without it.

My new persona is being an embittered loser. Previously I was a very patient, understanding loser who was going to make it out of loserdom one day! I have no interest in becoming a genuinely nice person- I don't have it in me. Never did. I've always been as selfish as the average person, just (probably) more guilty about it. I worked out I wasn't a nice, altruistic person when I was about 15. It was then that I decided I did not want to spend my life in service to others. I briefly considered it because I was very prone to guilt.

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

Sometimes I think "maybe I'm not so bad?", but I find if I try and look objectively at how I behave, the things I think, the way I act etc, it's quite an eye opener just how awful I am. I've been trying to think how I would feel if I met someone else like me, and I think I would be horrified.

I wonder how common it is to become stuck in a rut blaming everyone but yourself for your failings. That in itself is a pretty off-putting trait. It's a strange paradox of low self-esteem because some people like myself have low self-esteem because we are actually pretty horrible people. It's something that's not really discussed but seems quite common, just look at your average "red pill" type. Some people are probably just more aware of their shortcomings.

When I think about it even at a very young age I was pretty despicable. People who are hated tend to be so for good reason. Can I blame "shyness" for a lack of friends? No, because that's not a reason to dislike someone. I lack social skills, but the biggest barrier is probably that I'm so filled with venom, bile and bitterness. No amount of fake niceness can disguise that.

I say I'd love to become a genuinely nice person, but I'm not sure if I just don't know how too or if deep down I don't want to. My whole persona and identity has been formed around being an embittered loser. I think I'd feel lost if that changed.

Do you think this persistent and public negative assessment of yourself is basically some form of self-harm? From the way you usually speak about yourself it feels a lot like how people with body dysmorphic disorder might talk about themselves, only based around your personality. I know it probably doesn't help to say, since many people have said it to you before, but on this forum you've been nothing other than very insightful, clever, kind and funny. I'd be reluctant to believe that someone truly awful could be masquerading as a decent person online.

[Dougella]

Yes, but it was very much affected my me being severely depressed at the time. Once I had come out of that depression and could be kinder to myself I had a more objective view and could see myself more realistically.

One thing I will say though, I have no desire to be nice. A very wise poster who used to be a member here said they are not nice and don't want to be, and I agree with that. It doesn't mean they're not a generally good person but they (and I) recognise that everyone liking them and thinking that they're nice is not important.

[Sunrise]

I'm not sure I'd use the words "self-harm" but I probably do it as a sort of cry for help. A lot of the things I come out with on here are quite histrionic. I don't know if I do it as a form of attention seeking. I often read these posts back at a later date and think I must look ridiculous. I'm probably not particularly liked or hated by the majority of people I meet. I think it's a BPD thing, I have problems expressing my emotions in a healthy way.

I have BDD as well although it is a lot less severe now than when I was younger. I suppose it is a very similar way of thinking. Maybe that's why I do it, because I've spent so long with that mindset.

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by Dougella

One thing I will say though, I have no desire to be nice. A very wise poster who used to be a member here said they are not nice and don't want to be, and I agree with that. It doesn't mean they're not a generally good person but they (and I) recognise that everyone liking them and thinking that they're nice is not important.

We should all try to be nice, in the sense of being kind, polite, sympathetic to other people's suffering, etc. The problems begin when you're nice to horrible people. That's the real danger. Horrible people see 'niceness' as weakness, and they take advantage. Another big problem is wanting everyone to like you, and being excessively afraid of upsetting them. But I don't agree that being nice generally is a bad thing. You make the world you live in. If you want to live in a world in which people are gentle, polite, kind, empathetic, etc (which I do), then you have to be gentle, polite, kind and empathetic yourself.

[Dougella]

^ Yes, obviously treating people well and with respect is very important and I don't mean that people shouldn't be doing that.

[limey123]

What Orwell said.

[biscuits]

Great post, Orwell.

Sunrise, I think you're an ace person! You're going to find it hard to convince a jury of anyone on sauk anything to the contrary!

With BDD we tend to have a confirmation bias, in that we look for things that confirm the views that we have of ourself and reject or not really notice anything that doesn't fit with that view. Also we can tend to be drawn to people who confirm our beliefs. Not sure if this makes sense? When you describe people's views of you they always seem to fit your perception of yourself.

SA in particular can force us to behave in certain ways e.g. being a bit rubbish at replying to people or avoiding them - but it's to do with overwhelming anxiety or negative thoughts - rather than a reflection of how good of a person we are.

[Hayman]

Owell is very much correct over horrible people seeing your 'niceness' as a weakness. It's something I know first-hand about when it comes to one particular work colleague - who I had to stand up for myself to a few weeks ago. I'd had enough of his bullying and 'head working', basically. I'm easy to get along with once you know me, but once that 'threshold of annoyance' has been crossed, that's when I usually feel compelled to cut them off. Respect is something which works both ways and unfortunately, people in our position often lack that basic mutual respect.

Anyway, I don't consider myself to be an awful person. Someone terribly unlucky, yes. Someone who's lacked the same basic progressions simply down to social status and perception, yes. Someone who has probably trusted too much in others, yes. This is shaped me to be the person who I am. I can still smile, be polite, do my best to mix with others - but when you're at the bottom of the social 'pecking order', there’s little else you can do other than to sit there and 'hope' others move you up in their rankings. The longer it goes on, the more depressed and socially distant you can become. In turn, those who think of you poorly anyway blame you for this... It's a downward spiral.

I try to do the best I can with what I have and have at least some enjoyment out of life, despite that being limited. I think I've got to the stage I genuinely no longer care what others think of me. I am who I am. I do what I like to do and if they want to 'look down' at me for that, then so be it. I'm used to dealing with that. It’s water off a duck's back to me. Could I be classed as socially apathetic? Hmmm....probably.

I know I've improved as a person over the last five/six years or so. Me today compared to what I done (or didn’t, rather) a decade ago is marked. I'm proud of what little steps forward I've taken to improve in terms of the classic 'getting out more' phrase. Will that continue into the future? Who knows. It's just a shame almost no one has wanted to be part of this journey, or even have the basic decency to simply acknowledge it.

[MissKatie]

All the time.
I'm well aware I'm not a very nice person

I am selfish, I am direct and I don't like to be told what to do.

I don't think I'm particularly bad though, just that I tend to put people off me quickly

[Spuggy]

Yip. Fairly often.

Im not a bad'un really, but I seem to move in mysterious ways which is constantly for my benefit. Most of which is related to my SA.

Manipulating scenarios within my immediate family in very subtle ways to ensure that my SA wins.

During and after these minor wins i can hear the real me shouting trying to tell the world its not 'me' doing it but of course no one else can hear.

I feel bad over this and other SA related behavours.

[3stacks]

I consider mostly a good person but I can be toxic when I have like a crush on someone but I'm working on it. I do feel horrible sometimes though

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[Amara 94]

I can understand that ^

[Fantastical]

I'm constantly aware of how awful I am.

[gregarious_introvert]

^ Nobody else is!

I like to think that I'm aware of my faults and I am trying to work on them, but I've never been an awful person (however, that hasn't always been the perception of others and now that I'm aware why, others see me differently). I'm also aware of my qualities.

I agree largely with what Orwell says and although I try to be nice to everyone, I can be assertive when people try to take advantage (although, depending on circumstance, I am prepared to let some people take advantage, to a point). I haven't been a social creature for very long in real terms and am still learning some of the intricacies of social interaction, but I am a "better" person than I was a few years ago (I'm still the same, but the perception of me is better) and I aim to continue that progression.

[Hayman]

Originally Posted by 3stacks

I consider mostly a good person but I can be toxic when I have like a crush on someone but I'm working on it. I do feel horrible sometimes though

I've been in that position myself and it's not nice at all. Especially if you feel you've put in quite a lot of honest effort with that person. My sympathies to you there...it's hard work depending on how 'deep rooted' that crush is.

It's certainly not a position I would like to be in again.