The end of Britain’s drinking culture

[Orwell20]

Do you think we are seeing a change in this country’s attitude to drinking? When I was a teenager in the 1990s, people used to drink obscene amounts and pass out in the street - and be proud of it. Alcohol was a massive problem, and commentators often spoke about our dysfunctional relationship with booze. That seems to have changed. Most young people seem to be off drink. Are they more sensible? Or have they switched to cocaine? Or have I got it wrong?

[biscuits]

I've never been drunk!

[Moksha]

Over Xmas someone said to me that his nephew doesn’t drink, and neither does his nephew’s girlfriend. He was quite puzzled, actually. We agreed that, in general, the young drink less than they did in the ‘80s and ‘90s. And I’ve heard other middle-aged people remark on this. Some even seem disappointed in their kids!!

Maybe they are switching to drugs? Didn’t someone say that the morons who broke into Wembley during the WC final were high on coke? I have a feeling cocaine is more popular. I wouldn’t blame da yoof. Alcohol is a rubbish drug - a depressant that leaves you feeling like hell the next day. If all drugs were legal, I would switch to ecstasy, codeine, MDMA and mushrooms. At least ecstasy makes you feel happy.

It would have interesting to see a poll on how many SAUKers have quit drinking.

[Tembo]

There are certainly signs that younger people are drinking less (and smoking less). This is one of the reasons that pubs are on the decline.

My impression is that many youths have seen their parents abusing alcohol, and have to pick up the pieces, and just think… yeah, f*** that. I think this is a reason a cousin of mine rarely drinks, and has never smoked. They have seen the affect it’s had on their parents.

I generally think that, despite the increasingly negative *perception* of young people (violent crime, no discipline bla bla bla), current generations of young people are probably the most sensible for a long time, and I think that’s a good thing. While I don’t envy kids going through the recent years of Covid, and having lots more difficulties with social media in recent years, I’d partly like to have grown up now rather than the early 2000s.

[Appear]

^ This is basically me (the bit about parents). 'Abusing' might misrepresent it, but my dad is quite reliant on alcohol and seems to feel the need to drink it fairly regularly to excess. He says it's a form of escapism, which I tend to see as a bit of an issue in itself.

Being around that has generally put me off drinking regularly. I do drink now and then and did the whole binge drinking thing as a teen, but I can take it or leave it. I prefer to spend the money on nice food.

I do love a proper amaretto sour with egg white though...

[Merritt]

Could it also be a factor that there's more to occupy your free time with nowadays? I wonder how much people drank in the past because it was just something to do. Now with your Xstations and your Twitbooks there are other means to get a passing buzz. Or the yoof rightly concluded that booze is a bit crap and prefer other substances.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Tembo

My impression is that many youths have seen their parents abusing alcohol, and have to pick up the pieces, and just think… yeah, f*** that. I think this is a reason a cousin of mine rarely drinks, and has never smoked. They have seen the affect it’s had on their parents.
.

But surely that’s nothing new. Every generation of British youth has grown up watching their parents drink. We’ve always had an issue with alcohol. Even in the 1600s, foreign visitors used to complain about Brits getting drunk and starting fights. It’s even there in Chaucer (in the Canterbury Tales, one of the pilgrims gets so pi*sed he falls off his horse).

If the young are drinking less (and it seems like they are), it must be down to something new. Just a few random thoughts:

- Maybe they have more to do? I mean what with video games, boxsets, etc.

- There are more career opportunities. In the 1970s and 1980s, even if you could get a job, it would probably just be in a shop or factory. Today, there are far more interesting ways of making money.

- More fear. The young are bombarded with bad news, 24/7, and so feel the need to be fit and in control. There is a lot more anxiety around than when I was young - more of a feeling that things could collapse (I mean what with climate change, overpopulation, and so on). It’s not so much that things ARE bad, more that it’s in our face all the time.

- More health awareness. Thanks to t’internet, people are more health conscious than ever before (you can google virtually any symptom or illness). Also, there is more of an emphasis on keeping fit than ever before. Even gyms are relatively new. I don’t remember anyone having a gym membership back in the 90s.

- Greater access to drugs. Thanks to the dark web, you can order pretty much any drug and have it delivered.

[Scurrilous Rumour]

When I started working in the late 80s and early 90s it was quite usual for people to go down the pub on a Friday lunchtime. Not everyone, obviously, but a big group would pop out for a Friday lunchtime drink and it was considered quite normal. In fact a lunchtime pint at any time during the week wasn't really frowned upon. That has all changed now. If someone smells of alcohol at work today I can see it being a big deal. There has been a change in workplace behaviour, which reflects a cultural change.

I have no idea what has caused this change, but I remember the boozy 'lad and ladette culture' in the 90s being a real thing. You can see it in Men Behaving Badly and Oasis and all the magazines from the Cool Brittania era. I remember Zoe Ball and Sara Cox getting too bladdered to turn up to work and it being a big laugh. Now they are both teetotallers who talk with horror about their younger behaviour.

For young people today, I should imagine pubs are just too expensive. When I was 18, a night out drinking wouldn't bankrupt me. Now it would. And without the fun of meeting up with your mates in a pub, you are less likely to be introduced to drinking as a normal social activity. Today, young people are talking to each other on social media all day long, so meeting up in a pub probably seems pointless to them.

Buying booze from supermarkets is the only financially viable way of drinking these days, but that means drinking at home, presumably whilst watching tv or Netflix. I would suggest you already have to be in the habit of drinking to find this enjoyable. The lockdown apparently saw an increase in home boozing with an alarming spike in the numbers of alcohol related health issues, but is that mainly amongst older drinkers? Perhaps young people are knocking back cans of beer and bottles of vodka at home, but the trend suggests otherwise.

Ultimately, younger people drinking less is a good thing. Young people may be annoying little arsewipes, but at least they are sober little arsewipes, lol.

[Sunrise]

I live in a student town, so I think I can say with good authority that young people very much still enjoy the odd drink or 10. The biggest difference I think is more younger people are drinking at home these days as pubs and clubs are so expensive. The pubs are quieter but supermarket sales of alcohol have skyrocketed. The trendy youth all have house parties, pubs are for boomers and gammons.

Other drugs also seem a lot more accessible these days. Cocaine seems to have become very mainstream, when I was young (which wasn't that long ago) it was something only wealthy celebrities did but I now know several very ordinary people who are casual users. Whenever I've tried it I found it the perfect cure for anxiety, I genuinely don't think I'd ever felt so relaxed and at ease and it was a much more enjoyable experience than being drunk. I wouldn't recommend it though due to the very real and serious risk of death.

[Jen.]

There's probably nothing compelling anyone to go to the pub with their friends at the weekend if they've been in constant contact with them throughout the week online. "Pub culture" is about socialising, and it can't be a coincidence that most of the people you see in pubs now are of a certain age who don't really communicate online other than posting vile comments in local Facebook groups or adding poppy borders to their low resolution profile photos. Maybe it's also that people feel more able to be open and express their emotions these days compared to the past, especially young people. The desire to get drunk enough to "let everything out" must seem silly to those who are capable of doing that while sober.

I don't think alcohol is being replaced by other drugs though since other drugs are often taken in combination with something else, most commonly with alcohol. E.g. cocaine is something most users would do while drunk on a night out, not sat at home watching a football game as an alternative to having a few beers. Young people usually rebel against the generation that came before them, so it wouldn't surprise me if there's a culture of heavy drinking again with the children of today's young people.

[Mr. Nobody]

Maybe kids are drinking less in England, I really hope they are,
but unfortunately not in Scotland, as far as I am aware, judging from what I've seen in the past few years.
(maybe there are regional differences?)

I wish the UK were a bit more European in it's attitude to drink,

You go abroad and you see such maturity and restraint in people in regards to drink, they seem to have more class, or just a more mature outlook in general?

Perhaps with more connections happening worldwide thanks to social media/internet maybe the UK is imbibing some of that European restraint and maturity?

UK people often seem generally pissed off and a bit combative in demeanour sometimes, maybe drink was some form of solace for their perceived shortcomings?
but then, you tend to only notice the people who are out and about doing these things,..
I guess there's an even greater amount of youth that aren't visible?

[Scurrilous Rumour]

^

English and Scottish get drunk most often, 25-nation survey finds

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...n-survey-finds

That was from last year.

“British people have never really embraced moderation when it comes to drinking. While many other cultures regard alcohol as an accompaniment to a social event and frown upon public drunkenness, we’ve often embraced it as a cultural identity. The challenge is making people realise drinking a bit less does not make you boring. In fact, you’ll probably have a better night. It’s like as a country we need to leave our adolescence behind.”

Someone mentioned in this thread that throughout history foriegners have been shocked by British drunkenness. I don't doubt it for a moment. If the young are bucking the trend then good for them.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

I wish the UK were a bit more European in it's attitude to drink,

You go abroad and you see such maturity and restraint in people in regards to drink, they seem to have more class, or just a more mature outlook in general?

Perhaps with more connections happening worldwide thanks to social media/internet maybe the UK is imbibing some of that European restraint and maturity?

Totally agree. If you go to France, Spain, Italy, etc, you still see people enjoying a drink. But they calmly sip rather than gulp the whole ****ing bottle!!

Still, if it's true that the young drink less, then that's great. When I was young (in the 1990s), our drinking culture used to embarrass me so much. I hated laddism with a passion. It celebrated all the things I hate about the British – that oafish, beer-swilling side to our character. I remember walking down my high street with an American work colleague one Friday night and just wanting to die of shame – there was a teenage girl slumped unconscious in a shop doorway holding a tray of chips, two idiots stripped to the waist jumping on a bus shelter, etc. Horrible.

Over the years, I've lost count of the foreigners I've heard complain about our drinking culture. David Sedaris, for example, (the American writer, who now lives over here) said that public drunkenness was the thing he hated most about Britain.

[Jam do Bronx]

Do you think living a healthy lifestyle being the focus of a lot of the younger generation today may be playing a part in the reduction of drinkers? Everyone is a lot more aware when it comes to health and diet, preferring the gym and protein shakes over the pub and beer. It definitely feels like that in London anyway.

[Amara 94]

^ I also think the multiculturalism of London may reduce the chance of alcoholism in young people. At my job when we have temps, sometimes we have had Muslim temps that would take not drinking seriously. Some Black people drink but I also feel, depending on the culture, some Black people are less likely to become drinkers than some White people. I’m Black work with some European colleagues, alcohol seems like a big thing in their culture to where people make their own wine that they encourage drinking.

[limey123]

Drinking is also a big part of culture in parts of Northern and Eastern Europe. I'm sure I read somewhere, for example, the Poles are Europe's biggest drinkers. Having lived in Germany and Scand, I can attest that they like their booze too. This all being said, they seem to have a healthier relationship with it and less binge drinking than here. As for pubs declining, I see no evidence of it when I enter a pub around here.

[Scurrilous Rumour]

^
Pubs may still be busy, Limey123, but their numbers have been declining.

Declinging pub numbers in UK 2000 -2020



Pubs have also switched focus during my lifetime towards serving food rather than just being places to get drunk. The smoking ban has probably accelerated this trend.

Most pubs used to look like this:



God, some of those places were grim.

Now it's more likely to look like this:




Or this:




Getting carried away posting images now. But you get the point.

[biscuits]

^ that last pic reminds me of American Pie

[Tembo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

I wish the UK were a bit more European in it's attitude to drink,

You go abroad and you see such maturity and restraint in people in regards to drink, they seem to have more class, or just a more mature outlook in general?

Perhaps with more connections happening worldwide thanks to social media/internet maybe the UK is imbibing some of that European restraint and maturity??

I’ve been out at night in various cities in the UK and Europe. There is definitely more restraint on the continent. Generally speaking, on the continent they seem to be able to control their drink better, and that includes Belgium with their 8% beer and Eastern Europe with their spirits!. And you can almost guarantee the rowdy noisy lot falling all over the place are often British tourists!
I remember walking across the main square in Krakow, Poland, and then echoing across from the other side was a group shouting ‘Oi Oiiiii’. You can guess where they were from


Scurrilous Rumour, I have to say I prefer the first picture of those three pubs. I actually think I feel less anxious in such pubs, where you tend to find more varied people, and more people happily drinking on their own. The other two pictures are more suited to groups I’d say, which I’m not so keen on. I agree, you’re more likely to get pubs in the last two pictures these days, and there is sadly a decline in the more traditional pubs. They’re still around though, and they’re the ones I tend to aim for.
Either those, or the modern craft beer tap-room type places which don’t tend to have groups of lads making as much noise as humanly possible.

[Jen.]

The close proximity of the tables in that third photo is awful There should be a legal minimum between tables in restaurants. Probably about 5m would do.

[Rocket Spud]

^^ I prefer the image of the first picture too, though i can do without the smoking.

^ Five metres? That's .. excessive.

[Jen.]

Well, in an ideal world. Taking the middle table out of that image would be fine, but no closer than that and only when the rest of the place is full.

[Scurrilous Rumour]

One of the pub pictures doesn't seem to display in the post now. Interesting. No idea why. Oh well.

[Tembo]

^^ That’s the sort of thing I was trying to say, you’ve said it better than me. Even though it could still be an SA nightmare for some, I feel more comfortable in such places. You can be there alone but not feel alone. I don’t think that’s the same at all in a gastropub or Wetherspoons.

^ All pictures still show fine for me

[Scurrilous Rumour]

Originally Posted by Tembo

^ All pictures still show fine for me

Ah, maybe it's something to do with my work network filtering stuff. Glad to hear it is still working.

^^ That’s the sort of thing I was trying to say, you’ve said it better than me. Even though it could still be an SA nightmare for some, I feel more comfortable in such places. You can be there alone but not feel alone. I don’t think that’s the same at all in a gastropub or Wetherspoons.

I can remember going into those old style pubs by myself with a newspaper and having a pint and reading the sports pages. Do people still do that? I suppose everyone is looking at ther smartphones now.

[choirgirl]

It seems like my peers' teenage kids are more into going out for something to eat like grownups instead of drinking. I suppose they do have more options which is nice.

[Tembo]

Originally Posted by Scurrilous Rumour

I can remember going into those old style pubs by myself with a newspaper and having a pint and reading the sports pages. Do people still do that? I suppose everyone is looking at ther smartphones now.

Yes that certainly still happens. Sometimes there are scenes that could easily be a picture from the 1970s (minus the cloud of smoke). Although only older generations, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a young person in a pub reading the paper! They are of course on their phones instead. Some people roll their eyes at that, but it’s not exactly much different from people who read the newspaper.

When I say I like looking for these kind of old-style pubs, I wouldn’t say I like all of them. I went in one the other day, but it was the sort of pub that probably has a woman enter once a year, had awful beer like Carling on tap, and was full of louty blokes. Basically every stereotype of a bad pub.

But there are pubs that get things almost perfect. An old style pub, with a cross-section of society, from the group of old guys sitting at the bar drinking ale, the lone man in one corner reading his paper, an older lady in the other drinking an 8% Belgian beer, the group of young people drinking a craft beer, and the family with kids eating some pub grub. There’s a pub just like this in my town that I like to go to. It just feels much more communal than a cafe or a restaurant.

Sorry, I like talking about pubs. Makes a change from trains I guess

[Candleholder]

None of the twentysomethings I work with are interested in drinking. I don't think they take drugs either. They mostly seem interested in self-optimisation - building their careers, perfecting their appearance and going to the gym. I get the sense that social media has turned their lives into a competition.

But that's just a small group of fairly privileged people I know. I don't have to look far to see drunken hooligans, heroin addicts, and people sleeping in shop doorways.

[Marco]

^ That's my experience of the more privileged of the younger generation too, and I think you're absolutely right about the influence of social media.

[Sunrise]

The not-so-privileged twentysomethings I work with's social lives seem to be 99% drugs/booze/nights out etc. But when you're stuck in a dead end job in a dead end town with little prospects who can really blame them if they want to indulge in a bit of escapism? They're not helpless addicts lying unconscious in a doorway, just ordinary young people trying to enjoy themselves.

Class is probably a significant factor and I think there's still a huge drinking culture amongst working class people. There certainly seems to be a lot less lad-wannabe posh boy types these days (with the obvious exception of the chronically insufferable Jack Whitehall) which was definitely more of 90's/00's thing. Your trendy middle-class student types probably see it as quite passé these days. I can't see someone like Liam Gallagher and his loutish behaviour appealing to young people today, the days of someone like that being cool are ancient history. People still behave like that but it's no longer fashionable or admired, which most would probably say is a good thing.