Type what you're thinking about right now (11)

[choirgirl]

I was confused by Jack Monroe too. I couldn't see how she could be that poor if she had a child living with her. Not back then. I thought maybe she was in massive debt and hadn't negotiated with her creditors. Basically she wasn't really poor so she shouldn't say she was. She was spending a lot of her money on something else. Bullshitters are a pain in the arse.

She did well to make a career out of her self-inflicted poverty though. I had that idea for a blog back in 2007, (not for career purposes, just thought it would be interesting to do), but it was so not in line with the tenor of the times, and of course I never did anything about it.

[Percy]

Originally Posted by You Have 0 New Messages

Had my beautiful darling girl of 16 years put to sleep a couple weeks ago. Totally lost without her truth be told, irreparably friggin heart broken. Have thought of little else in that time.

Sorry to hear that.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by choirgirl

I was confused by Jack Monroe too. I couldn't see how she could be that poor if she had a child living with her. Not back then. I thought maybe she was in massive debt and hadn't negotiated with her creditors. Basically she wasn't really poor so she shouldn't say she was. She was spending a lot of her money on something else. Bullshitters are a pain in the arse.

She did well to make a career out of her self-inflicted poverty though. I had that idea for a blog back in 2007, (not for career purposes, just thought it would be interesting to do), but it was so not in line with the tenor of the times, and of course I never did anything about it.

As is the case with a lot of people the thing that caused the problem in her case was benefits delays and mistakes. Yes if she was recieving everything she was entitled to as a single mother she would have been on a tight budget but still able to cover all the basics, but it was problems with her benefits that pushed her situation over the edge. Then further down the line when she was working through the attention that her blog had recieved and she was being paid for articles and interviews etc there was another problem where there were miscalculations about how much she had earned and then she was told she had to pay back benefits that she had been over paid (which actually wasn't the case.)
She wasn't in massive debt and she wasn't drinking away all her money either, she was just in a difficult situation. Which anyone can find themselves in actually!

[Percy]

I tend nowadays to avoid the benefit debates (or should do nowadays). Particularly given I'm not in the best place ATM. I do feel the need to say something though. I don't know the particulars of this case. Perhaps this should really be in the basement. I would note that if this is a long term cases of alcoholism then being on benefits isn't going to change anything and the condition will still remain. Although I'll agree there are people who create there own self destruction if you look at the history of that individual there are usually reasons why.
Like Dougella I also have encountered people who have relapsed into difficulties because of problems with benefits, or even because of the stigma against claimants. In other cases the problem was always there and doesn't simply disappear because of the need to "budget". No doubt some are know for playing the system, in this particular case maybe that what's happened here (as I said I don't know the particulars), all systems are open to abuse. The point I'm making though is that if this is an alcoholic he/she will be an alcoholic no matter what there income.

[choirgirl]

I don't know the ins and outs of her situation because in her recipe articles she never explained why she was poor. Perhaps she was asked not to because it went against the editorial stance. I can see that her freelancing might well have messed up her benefits. Actually, it looks like her benefits got messed up initially because she tried to go back to work for a bit. Unfortunately, the system isn't set up for that. It's set up for going back to work and staying in work (on regular pay) or just staying on benefits (and possibly working under the table.) So it looks like she was penalised for trying to 'do the right thing.' If she hadn't tried she would have been better off in the short term. Maybe she was drinking away some of the money, maybe she wasn't. If she wasn't, then obviously her poverty wasn't self-inflicted, or at least no more than anyone else's. I've become rather jaded and suspicious!

[Dougella]

^ She talked about everything on her blog, which is where she first started posting her recipies. She had worked as a telephone operator for the fire service but she had to leave as she couldn't get childcare to cover the shifts (and she tried to negotiate different hours with her employer, but they wouldn't let her). So she had to go on to benefits while she looked for another job, and applied for lots, but obviously it takes a while. Then yes she had problems with taking temporary work and combining that with benefits. I guess we can pretty much all agree that the benefits system isn't working!

[Dougella]

^ A problem with what? The story?
I've noticed that this is something that happens a lot though, the amount of judgment aimed at people on benefits is relentless. People refuse to be believe that anyone is really struggling, every action is questioned, everything a person buys, drinks or eats is scrutinised, if you have any kind of debt or have made any kind of mistake in your life then you're to blame for your whole situation. I'm surprised to see that happening here though.

[choirgirl]

I don't have a problem with her, I know nothing about her! I just didn't believe someone with a child could be that badly off back then unless there was something going on that we hadn't been told about in the media (she may have been upfront on her own blog). However, benefit delays can certainly cause problems for people with no savings, especially if the saga rolls on for months. Why not just explain that?

Yeah, Melangell, likeable people can get away with all sorts!

[Dougella]

^ She did explain it, it's just that as with many things it suits the media to leave things out and get people to judge her more harshly. She's put herself out there in the public eye to try to help people going through similar things to her and just look at all the judgement she's got for it! She writes cook books that use the cheapest possible ingredients to make healthy meals, including things people can make if they only have a microwave or if they don't have a fridge etc. (She's suffered long term mental health problems from the things she went through, including the fear of bailiffs coming to the door. I believe she attempted to take her own life at one point.)

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Melangell

^^ I never liked her, and I didn't know she was in benefits, she just gets on my nerves. I expect she's scrutinised because she is attention seeking, if you make your circumstances public and constantly push yourself into the public eye then people are going to scrutinise you. I don't think that's because she claimed benefits, it's just one aspect of her public life that people have picked up on.

There's a comedienne that lived in a squat for a while (can't think who just now) I don't think she's ever had negative scrutiny for that because she's likeable.

She's only in the public eye because of the situation she went through being on benefits, she started her blog just as a way to share the meals she made with the cheapest food you can find in the supermarkets. That was picked up and she gave some interviews and that led on eventually to her cook books. People judge her, as everyone's discussed here, because she was a single mum on benefits......and when she's spoken up for people like her who don't have a platform or a voice she gets seen as attention seeking! She can't win can she. By the way she's also autistic.

[Jen.]

She also did great work ruining Katie Hopkins

[Dougella]

^ Indeed she did.

[choirgirl]

Fair enough. I assume that the leftish media wanted to make out like benefits are worth less than they are for someone in her position, so people wouldn't agree with having them cut.

(And I'm just nosy. How did she end up as an impoverished single mother since she seems pretty gay. It surely makes an unplanned pregnancy less likely. So what was the plan? Where is the father in all this? Why is he not paying child support? Why didn't her parents help her out at all? Couldn't she have stayed with either/both of them for a few years? And so on. Of course, I realise the system exists to help people who don't have help or enough help for whatever reason, and the basic principle of that is fine. It's just all got a little ... out of hand.)

No, I think it's a great idea. Like I said, I had the same idea myself! But she actually did it so fair play to her. And yeah, poverty recipes have to come from someone who actually understands things like you don't necessarily have a large, well equipped kitchen all to yourself, a fridge, a freezer, fuel efficient appliances, etc etc.

[Dougella]

^ The blog wasn't about being a mum, it was about food. That was just the situation she was in and the reason she started the blog was just to share information, not to make any money from it. Like I said she was looking for work at the time.

You don't have to like her at all. But if people don't speak up about things then like I said no-one gets to hear about the things that people who can't speak out are going through. Her blog wasn't about being autistic either lol, she only discovered that she'd been diagnosed with autism as a child quite recently I think when she was on the point of a breakdown and went to the doctor. Nobody had told her when she was young that that was what she had!

I'd know some people here if passed them in the street because I've seen their pictures.

I suppose even if someone is offered interviews and TV appearances because of something they've done or written about they don't have to go down that route. I don't really see why they shouldn't though.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by choirgirl

Fair enough. I assume that the leftish media wanted to make out like benefits are worth less than they are for someone in her position, so people wouldn't agree with having them cut.

(And I'm just nosy. How did she end up as an impoverished single mother since she seems pretty gay. It surely makes an unplanned pregnancy less likely. So what was the plan? Where is the father in all this? Why is he not paying child support? Why didn't her parents help her out at all? Couldn't she have stayed with either/both of them for a few years? And so on. Of course, I realise the system exists to help people who don't have help or enough help for whatever reason, and the basic principle of that is fine. It's just all got a little ... out of hand.)

No, I think it's a great idea. Like I said, I had the same idea myself! But she actually did it so fair play to her. And yeah, poverty recipes have to come from someone who actually understands things like you don't necessarily have a large, well equipped kitchen all to yourself, a fridge, a freezer, fuel efficient appliances, etc etc.

She had a brief thing with a guy when she was relatively young and accidentally got pregnant, as far as I understand. She is in a relationship with a woman now though! I don't know the details of the father, she said that her son was with his Dad for the Christmas that's already been mentioned. I guess he must not have been earning much or enough to pay substantial child support. She's said she was too ashamed to ask family for help at the time and people have complicated family situations so who knows.

[Dougella]

^ Talking about something you went through that many people are still going through, particularly with the introduction of universal credit and the 5 week waiting period isn't 'bemoaning your experiences' it's advocating for others!



When someone is an alcoholic they're not knocking back booze, they've got a serious problem. But lots of people drink some wine when they need to relax or cheer up a bit, I think you've talked about doing that before.

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by Indigo_

^ The trouble is, people have circumstances that change. A couple who are working and can afford to have children could at some point in the future separate and whoever has custody of the child may need the support of benefits as a single person. You can hardly give the child back when your circumstances change.

People are fully aware before they choose to have children that circumstances change and the costs involved in bringing up children. They are fully aware that couples break up and should have measures in place to cover these eventualities. That's before we get to the people like the two I mentioned that had children without any intent to support themselves.

If the government were to decide to build an underground railway between here and America and costs spiralled as they do, would be fine to just increase our taxes to pay for this project that we didn't want or ask for due to their poor planning?

I don't think we should have to pay for the choices of others to have children, children are a luxury not a necessity. The country is already packed, we have lots of children without parents that need homes and if we need more workers, we have immigrants.

[Consolida]

I haven't been following the posts on the forum for a day or two and have absolutely no idea who Jack Monroe is but if he/she has managed to improve their circumstances in some way, and it's all above board and legal, then fair play to them surely? Isn't it rather inspiring?

I think it's sad when people that have been on benefits for all sorts of complex reasons are castigated when they try to better theirselves. It seems like some people can't win either way. That said, I don't have a clue who this person is so I probably shouldn't be commenting.

I am also thinking if this person that everyone is talking about has devised some cheap recipes for people living on not very much money then it would have come in very handy this week while my 16 year old is doing his national citizen service.

The NCS was originally implemented by David Cameron and is meant to give teenagers an opportunity to come together, to challenge themselves as a team and to learn important life skills such as buying and cooking their own food. I've discovered that they have been given £10 each to buy all of their food for the week so they are pretty much living on tins of cheap baked beans.
Who knows, perhaps this is some crafty way of making youngsters see how tough their life could be if they don't do well at college/uni and end up with decent jobs

Also they have been doing their supermarket shopping at 1 in the morning (unsupervised!) and even witnessed some drug dealers doing their thing in the car park. What the heck is all that about? When I was 16 'life skills' involved learning how to tie different knots with the girl guides.
How times have changed

[Deer]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

Are you talking about real poverty, where people are stealing to pay for food like in 3rd world countries or left wing poverty where people here have everything they need for free and are just stealing to pay for drugs or trainers?

Ah, don't begrudge, Schmosby! I have a mate on PIP who goes shop lifting every Friday. What trainers do you like?

[Dougella]

^^^ Well that certainly is some life experience your son is getting! I suppose living on a very tight budget could be a good thing to experience, but actually managing in that situation takes some thought and planning. I follow a website called 'feed your family for £20 a week', also started by a Mum but not a single one. There is some good advice out there, it's just finding it!

[Consolida]

^ That's a very good way of looking at it, Tonkin.

Children don't ask to be born and once they are here then what? They can't be made to not exist. If their parents were denied any help at all then it would be the innocent children who suffer.
Believe it or not, but a lot of single parents are loving and nurturing and instill good values and morals into their children so ripping their children away from a home that they are happy in and tossing them into the care system is not the answer either. These children might someday become the adults who are wiping the dribble from our chins when we are sitting in a care home. Society really does need to look out for the young.

To be honest, I find it very upsetting when I hear some people talking about single parents and their children in such a derogatory way

[Mo34]

^^^ Great post Tonkin

[Percy]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ A problem with what? The story?
I've noticed that this is something that happens a lot though, the amount of judgment aimed at people on benefits is relentless. People refuse to be believe that anyone is really struggling, every action is questioned, everything a person buys, drinks or eats is scrutinised, if you have any kind of debt or have made any kind of mistake in your life then you're to blame for your whole situation. I'm surprised to see that happening here though.

And here in lies the problem doesn't it. This is where the bigotry rears it's ugly head. The assumption that if you are on benefits it must be because you're spending is poor, you mental illness is your own fault, your just lazy etc etc.

Is it any wonder people are angry and others are killing themselves when every little thing we do is called into question and assumptions like that are made? No wonder the left are up in arms when just about everyone on benefits is subjected to this treatment just for having the audacity to claim.

[Percy]

Originally Posted by jen.m.

She also did great work ruining Katie Hopkins

Katie Hopkins ruined herself. Since she's such a big fan of the "personable responsibility" club she should appreciate the irony.

[limey123]

Just heard about my last interview: I didn't get it, but I clearly came pretty damn close (again). So, while a bit of a bugger, it's overall encouraging. Keep trying and I have to land a job eventually. Or else I'm gonna retrain!

[Consolida]

^ I'm sorry you didn't get the job but it is indeed extremely encouraging that you came second for both!
You are obviously coming across as pretty darn impressive at your interviews though Limey!
Third time lucky I reckon

[Dougella]

^^ Well done Limey, you're obviously doing really well and you'll definitely get a job soon

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Tonkin

Yes, me too.

I have nothing against single parents at all. I just mentioned them as some "people" in this thread have been slagging them and singling them out in particular.

With everything going on in the country and wider world, I can't believe some people are focusing their hate at poor parents/people, as if they number one on their hit list!

It beggars belief!

Unfortunately these negative attitudes have been deliberately encouraged, firstly so that the huge cuts to social security could be justified and secondly to distract from the real problems with huge corporations paying very little tax, huge amounts of tax payer money being spent on illegitimate wars, etc. (Oh dear, it's gone very political hasn't it.)

[Schmosby]

Good stuff Limey, you gotta be in it to win it. You'll get something soon enough.

[choirgirl]

Ha Consolida! I think it's absolutely about lowering their expectations and teaching them to cope with poverty. Well, it's a useful skill in today's society!