Do you ever feel like you're motivated by the wrong reasons?

[Sunrise]

I feel like a lot of my attempts at self-improvement are more about trying to impress others or prove all the people who have doubted me wrong, rather than a genuine desire to better myself.

I wonder if this is common for those like me who are at the bottom of the social food chain? When you're seen by the majority as the lowest of the low, it's probably normal to want to change other people's negative opinion of you. Is that necessarily a bad thing?

I don't want to be liked by every single person I meet, but I want to be treated with at least some respect. I hate being seen as one of life's bottom feeders. All my motivation comes from that, because it's so humiliating going through life like that.

[Merry]

If you see yourself at the bottom, who are you looking up to? What kind of people?

I don't see myself as having any particular place in society. I don't really value things that might be seen as socially successful, like money or nice cars or clothes, so don't really see myself as "less than" for not having those things.

What do you value in other people?

I value people who are insightful and reflective and take an interest in things.

I don't really see a conventional social hierarchy as things that might be seen as socially successful are often things that I disagree with or that just get on my nerves.

What do you find socially successful?

[Sunrise]

I'd say people who have healthy relationships with others, a supportive family, a circle of friends who they care about and who they do enjoyable things with. Those are people who I would say are socially successful. They're lives will be far from perfect, but they're still capable of forming genuine connections with others, which is something that is beyond me. They're the people I look up to.

Not being able to form those healthy human connections is why I'm bottom of the social hierarchy.

I'm not really talking about money or flash cars, although I wouldn't say no to either.

I'm not sure what I value in other people. I'm not really in a position to do that.

[Sunrise]

I'm probably quite materialistic actually to try and make up for my lack of social skills. You can easily buy smart clothes but no amount of money can get you a likeable personality. If I could buy genuine social success I would.

I envy those who aren't. I'd rather have a good heart than a flash car. Unfortunately I have neither.

[Mr. Nobody]

you seem to be glorifying other people who happen to be in a family and happen to have relationships with other people as if THEY are the answer,
But I'm not sure that other people's lives as are idyllic as you imagine them to be,
You are continually marginalising yourself by putting everyone above you.

[Sunrise]

I'm not saying their lives are idyllic. I said that I realise "they're lives will be far from perfect", those actual words. I'm not glorifying anything, but I'm envious of those who are capable of forming basic human connections. I don't think they're perfect, I think they're "normal". Ordinary people with all kinds of faults and flaws, but still capable of so much more than I am.

It wasn't my decision to put everyone above me. Social hierarchies are complex things, but it's just how it is, it's how the world works. Everyone is a mix of different character traits, some good and some bad. I'm someone who happens to have a lot more bad ones than good ones. Modern pop psychology classes me as a "low value man", that's not a label I have given myself, it's because I have a lot of character traits that are widely seen as very undesirable.

I think it's good to take inspiration from those living the sort of lives I aspire too. It's not about putting people on a pedestal, it's about trying to become more like them. I think these people are better than me because they are, and I don't see anything wrong in thinking that.

[sophie79]

^
I think it really is your decision to put everyone above you. You're deciding that based on some arbitrary rules of living in society you've made up. It is not good to constantly think others are better than you.

I feel that you are extremely determined to hate on yourself, and that you decide on the rules of life to fit that narrative.

It would help if you dispensed with it all, and started liking yourself, just a bit. It's okay to be you.

[gregarious_introvert]

To answer the headline question, I would say that there are times when everyone is motivated by the wrong reasons - we're only human. However, I would also add that what might be considered the wrong reasons is personal to everyone, so maybe someone who is self-centred would feel that their reasons were justified, whereas an anxious person would ruminate more on their reasons and feel that they were the wrong ones.

In response to the OP, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to want to impress others, I would say that really comes down to a matter of degrees (eg. it's fine to want to make a genuine impression, but forcing yourself upon others to be the centre of attention is probably too much - and won't impress anyone). I do think, however, that self-improvement should be for one's own benefit and not for others; we need to remain true to ourselves, to avoid living a lie which would be almost impossible to maintain on a permanent basis.

I have no idea where I come in the "social food chain", but probably wouldn't want to associate with anyone who had hierarchical views of socialising anyway; when I meet people, we are equals and I'm either going to get along with that person or I'm not (definitely not if they are racist, bigoted or prejudiced in any way, of course). I have my interests, my values, my core beliefs and only want to associate with others who share, at least in part, those values, not because I believe that I am right in everything, but because I am not going to find a connection with someone who thinks totally differently to me - I can respect other views, even learn from them (I have many conversations with people who have a different outlook, I just don't repeat the experience). I would rather be alone than associate with people who don't enrich my life and make me feel that I enrich theirs (which probably explains why I am alone ).

As for respect, that has to be earned, but in my view, it can only be truly earned if we remain true to ourselves and seek out others who respect what we are, rather than trying to be someone or something else to gain respect. In my case, I know that there are people who won't respect me because I live on benefits, or for my lifestyle choices (past or present), but that's fine because I will find others who do. I have a lot of faults (none of us is perfect), but I don't believe that the faults I have are harmful to others, so if others don't accept them, it's their issue and not mine. I'm living my life and of course, I want people to like and respect me, but on my terms (which, with the right people, would be their terms too).

I got lost somewhere in the middle there, but hope that makes sense?

[Merry]

Originally Posted by sophie79

^
I think it really is your decision to put everyone above you. You're deciding that based on some arbitrary rules of living in society you've made up. It is not good to constantly think others are better than you.

I feel that you are extremely determined to hate on yourself, and that you decide on the rules of life to fit that narrative.

It would help if you dispensed with it all, and started liking yourself, just a bit. It's okay to be you.

Yes, this.
The things other people have that elude you stems from themselves thinking that they are entitled to things that make them happy.

People don't have to love themselves, people often have self doubts or lack confidence in different ways, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve things that make them happy. No one else thinks as negatively of you as you talk about yourself and if you can't give yourself a break in life, who else do you think will?

You're constantly trying to climb a mountain that you are building yourself, when you should try walking in a different direction entirely.

[Bluebear]

My advice is to dispense with 'shoulds'. Nobody here thinks as negatively about you as you do about yourself.