We've been exposed to too much too fast and we hav'nt evolved enough yet to cope

[karl-32]

Originally Posted by clawhammer

The guy lasted just 112 days in the wilderness and died of starvation - his body weighed just over 4 and a half stones at his death.

Not exactly a good advert for abandoning the modern world. :rolleyes:

thanks for ruining the movie:rolleyes:

[Mr. Nobody]

I think the hardest thing about this idea is living your own life and according to your own needs without feeling that you are somehow depriving yourself in some way, having SA makes you feel you are losing out to things at the best of times, but living a more simple life means leaving the comfort and reassurance of the crowd behind, the feeling of "am I doing the right thing, am I on the right path,"? can gnaw away at you something chronic, that's what living a simple life would mean, nowadays anyway, here in UK, it would mean leaving the comfort of consuming masses,
saying no to the life that is portrayed as "ideal"

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by karl-31

thanks for ruining the movie:rolleyes:

Actually, he doesn't starve to death in the movie version (I'll say no more), but that's how he died in reality.

[karl-32]

Originally Posted by clawhammer

Actually, he doesn't starve to death in the movie version, though that's how he died in reality.

you just did it again


i'm sure i'll enjoy it

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by karl-31

thanks for ruining the movie:rolleyes:

The ending is irrelevant to the story.

[!>Y\e5l-%h-NMw>cH]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

I read the book first. I was off sick and read it in one sitting in bed, dribbling snot onto the pages. I have the dvd has well as it was very true to the book, but not as detailed (naturally).



I understand what you're saying and I'm not challenging it - I would love to have a slightly more rural life and dream of living in a rural part of Portugal one day when I'm older - but I think you can create a similar existence from your current life if you really want to.

You say you feel tormented by pleasures other people have. What pleasures? Do you think they will make you happy? Big cars big houses lots of money? If you don't want these things then why do you feel tormented? Just ignore them and concentrate on what makes you happy. I appreciate it is difficult but anything worth doing in life takes a buttload of effort.

Its not big cars, houses and all that bollocks.

Although I would like a SIM2 MICO Led PJ for 16k and a screen costing about 6 grand, plus the latest Denon reference Blu Ray player costing about 5k and an endless supply of Blu Ray rentals.

Its WOMEN, all the bloody bootiful women that torment me.

I only want one on my terms though.

[!>Y\e5l-%h-NMw>cH]

Originally Posted by karl-31

you just did it again


i'm sure i'll enjoy it

Thats the spirit.

[black_mamba]

Women?! But that won't change if you live the rural lifestyle.

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by karl-31

you just did it again


i'm sure i'll enjoy it

*puts tape over mouth*

[!>Y\e5l-%h-NMw>cH]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

Women?! But that won't change if you live the rural lifestyle.

Becasue I've been corrupted.

Its no good living a rural life style now becasue I've been exposed.

Its too late!

I meet a girl years ago and she was lovely and fancied me.

I did'nt fancy her that much though becasue I'd been exposed to all the bloody lovely ladies of the word.

If I'd just meet her in my local rural village I think I'd be married to her now with the sprogs pulling up carrots and shit.

I'd be happier than I am now.

[fruitloop]

Urgh, I seriously hated into the wild, it seemed like such a pointless waste of human life, and I really wanted to like it too.
This kid from a well off family, gets all zen and wants to go wandering around in the wilderness to "get back in touch with nature" and then died, from his own stupidity.
It's like that poor guy who got himself and his girlfriend eaten by bears, because he thought they were his friends.
There is nothing wrong with appreciating what you have, why is every one so myopic these days?
The world is ending, we're going to run out of everything, there's too many people!
None of this actually seems based on fact, it's based in fear.
We fear other people, and it's not just us here at SAUK, it's everyone, people are terrified of other people and the media keeps on telling us all how dangerous everyone else is.
Kids are dangerous, adults are dangerous, strangers are dangerous, people you know are dangerous.
Many, many people move out to the countryside, some of them survive, a large number end up running back to the city, why? Because it's not all Darling Buds of May, if it rains, everywhere is muddy, if you're out in the sticks, it will take you 30 minutes to get anywhere decent minimum.
Farming is not fun, that is why it is no longer traditional for the farmer's kids to take over the running of the farm, when the old farmer runs out of steam, they sell up these days.
I keep on seeing people who have this idyllic, bunnies and baby deer point of view, with absolutely no understanding of what actually being out in the middle of nowhere means, if you want to do the self-sufficiency thing. Be prepared for endless manual labour, back-breaking manual labour, dirty manual labour, the expense, the loneliness, getting up in the middle of the night to tend to lambing ewes, etc.
Anywho, I'm going to stop ranting...*and breath*

bugschivers

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

This kid from a well off family, gets all zen and wants to go wandering around in the wilderness to "get back in touch with nature" and then died, from his own stupidity.

He died having lived his dream, which is far more than most have done. He didn't go all zen at all, he wanted an adventure and had the balls to go out and get it.

That film really divides people, just look at all the arguments on its imdb page.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

There is nothing wrong with appreciating what you have, why is every one so myopic these days?
The world is ending, we're going to run out of everything, there's too many people!
None of this actually seems based on fact, it's based in fear.

That is true though, we are consuming far too much and eventually it will run out, for example everyone knows oil reserves are going to run out in the not-too-distant future, the way we're living is unsustainable. I think we are only animals at the end of the day, there is a world which we need to look after, but it's too distant from most people's lives to really care which is why climate change continues even tho we all know about it.

I think you can appreciate what you've got whilst thinking about whats wrong with the world, we have to or nothing will change.

[fruitloop]

It's not my place to judge if someone has lived their dream or not, and I can appreciate what he was doing, but I think that it was a stupid thing that he did.
Many, many people go off and live their dreams, and that is to be applauded, but I cannot applaud people who die senseless deaths because they wanted to do something that they really didn't understand.
Would you applaud a skydiver who jumped out of a plane without a parachute?
I find it depressing more than anything, people who go off and try to do amazing things and then get it all wrong, it seems so senseless, plenty of people do amazing things and come back to tell the tale.
I think that this particular kid, hankered for something that he could have found where he was, a lot of people get taken in by the grandeur and wonder of the "wild" parts of the world, and they only cause others pain by doing so.
I absolutely believe in living your dreams, but you have to plan your ass off, or frankly, it's still floating, it's just they do it more spectacularly than other people do, it's not romantic, it's tragic.

bugschivers

[black_mamba]

So he caused others pain by his death? What about his own pain at not being able to do what he truely wanted? Yes it's a tragedy, but I can't stand that attitude of 'it was stupid because now his family are upset' - I just find it very cynical and stagnant - if we were all to live by this attitude nothing exciting would happen.

[fruitloop]

we are consuming far too much and eventually it will run out

everyone knows oil reserves are going to run out

What makes you think we will run out, have you experienced any shortages? I am yet to see a supermarket without food, I haven't had to go without electricity or running water.
These fears are periodically reinforced, because someone, somewhere, believes them, that doesn't make it a fact.
I personally don't know what the situation with oil is precisely, I'm willing to bet many others who worry about this stuff don't either.
I don't trust Global Warming as far as I can throw a Climatologist, I'm not convinced on the overpopulation front and I haven't seen evidence that we are fast running out of stuff.
All this environmental stuff just seems like the new terrorism to me, more fears to scare us with, to make some money for someone, somewhere.
I am as concerned about the world as anyone else, but all this stuff is divisive, it's not about us, it's about them and us, it's about people using fancy terminology for things they can't explain and don't understand. So that we can't understand them either, and I think it's a little bit about our collective fears about other people too, no wonder we're all so happy, when half of us think the world is about to end.

bugschivers

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

What makes you think we will run out, have you experienced any shortages? I am yet to see a supermarket without food, I haven't had to go without electricity or running water.
These fears are periodically reinforced, because someone, somewhere, believes them, that doesn't make it a fact.
I personally don't know what the situation with oil is precisely, I'm willing to bet many others who worry about this stuff don't either.
I don't trust Global Warming as far as I can throw a Climatologist, I'm not convinced on the overpopulation front and I haven't seen evidence that we are fast running out of stuff.
All this environmental stuff just seems like the new terrorism to me, more fears to scare us with, to make some money for someone, somewhere.
I am as concerned about the world as anyone else, but all this stuff is divisive, it's not about us, it's about them and us, it's about people using fancy terminology for things they can't explain and don't understand. So that we can't understand them either, and I think it's a little bit about our collective fears about other people too, no wonder we're all so happy, when half of us think the world is about to end.

bugschivers

Wow, do you believe in science at all then?

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

All this environmental stuff just seems like the new terrorism to me, more fears to scare us with, to make some money for someone, somewhere.

I think we are being made to feel guilty now because goverments want us as individuals to pollute less, since they haven't been able to make the big polluting businesses cut their emissions and other such environmentall-unfriendly things, the onus is now on the general public.

That plus yeah, it's sometimes another marketing ploy.

[fruitloop]

I'm not saying he shouldn't have caused his family pain, I'm saying it was stupid because he died, I personally would rather live to tell my tale than die, alone, in agony, in the middle of nowhere, without any hope of help.
He died for the want of some planning and preparation, that doesn't mean that he had to stop for a moment, he could of gotten what he needed along the way, but he didn't.
I haven't once said he shouldn't have gone after his dream, I would never tell someone not to do something if it was their dream, heck people tell me I live in the clouds because of all the big dreams I have.
I also love adventures, albeit the less life-threatening kind, I can totally see how dropping everything and disappearing into the wilderness would seem like this amazing thing.
I just see the loss of life, I'm sorry if that isn't what you see, it seems senseless to me, it doesn't stand for following your dreams, it stands for the senselessness of a pointless death, that could have been avoided.

bugschivers

[fruitloop]

Wow, do you believe in science at all then?

Honestly, I don't believe in things that don't have a solid foundation, and seeing as how, if you go and look at a lot of "popular science" it's based on sand, then you end up with less and less that you trust.

bugschivers

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

I just see the loss of life, I'm sorry if that isn't what you see, it seems senseless to me, it doesn't stand for following your dreams, it stands for the senselessness of a pointless death, that could have been avoided.

I see a man who had an amazing adventure.

We have to agree to disagree on this one. I can't see it as senseless if he got some pleasure out of it. Yes his death could've been avoided but you could say that for every death that has ever happened. Every death could've been avoided. If we were to live safe lives then nothing would get done, nothing exciting would happen, and people like me would commit suicide because they were so bored.

[fruitloop]

We could probably go on all night
I'll agree to disagree

bugschivers

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

Honestly, I don't believe in things that don't have a solid foundation, and seeing as how, if you go and look at a lot of "popular science" it's based on sand, then you end up with less and less that you trust.

bugschivers

Ok but I don't think you'd find many scientists disagreeing that those things are happening

[fruitloop]

Ha ha, have you actually read any news recently?

Science isn't about agreement, it's about proving something wrong, that is the whole fricking point, you take an assumption and you try and prove it wrong.
A load of people, nodding and agreeing isn't factual evidence that something is happening, it's a load of people agreeing on something.
They shouldn't need all the peons proclaiming the "end days" if the science were settled and proven, as it's not, and as they keep getting proven wrong and as they can't seem to organise a sauna in a greenhouse, I'm afraid I don't put much stock in it all.
Too much science has lost its credibility for me to really take it seriously.

bugschivers

[clawhammer]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

I see a man who had an amazing adventure.

I see a man whose adventure turned into a nightmare.

When they found his body he weighed just over 4 and a half stones. That's what my sister weighed when she died of cancer, and she was nothing but skin and bones. His final weeks must have been a living hell.

I can see how this story resonates an almost mythic charm, something like Icarus falling to his death, but that's the problem - the book and the movie romanticise what in reality was a waste of a life and a horrible way to die. With a little forethought and planning he might have made his dream come true.

The 'magic bus' is now something of a tourist attraction.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by clawhammer

With a little forethought and planning he might have made his dream come true.

No, the way I read it was - he achieved what he set out to do - he reached the dream. The death was unfortunate but you can't account for every single eventuality especially not on such an adventure. I'm sure his death was terrifying and painful (very few aren't) but why fixate on it?

Sorry but I'm not willing to discuss this anymore. It really upsets me that people have that 'he was an idiot' attitude, instead of 'f-ck yeah!', or maybe the film instilled that idea, but still...read the book, or let's agree to disagree.

I respect wild adventures, even if they result in death. It's the way I'd like to go, doing what I love.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Bugschivers

Ha ha, have you actually read any news recently?

Science isn't about agreement, it's about proving something wrong, that is the whole fricking point, you take an assumption and you try and prove it wrong.
A load of people, nodding and agreeing isn't factual evidence that something is happening, it's a load of people agreeing on something.
They shouldn't need all the peons proclaiming the "end days" if the science were settled and proven, as it's not, and as they keep getting proven wrong and as they can't seem to organise a sauna in a greenhouse, I'm afraid I don't put much stock in it all.
Too much science has lost its credibility for me to really take it seriously.

bugschivers

Struth. I'm not going to get into an argument about this, yes I've read plenty of news lately what's your point?

It's not about proclaiming the 'end days' it's about saying we have limited resources on the planet. If we didn't have scientific agreement we wouldn't know about gravity, or atoms or millions of other observable things which we can't see. Do you dispute all those things as well?

I think you said it all in that last sentence. You don't take science seriously :rolleyes:

[E Dub]

Originally Posted by Stardog99

Struth. I'm not going to get into an argument about this, yes I've read plenty of news lately what's your point?

It's not about proclaiming the 'end days' it's about saying we have limited resources on the planet. If we didn't have scientific agreement we wouldn't know about gravity, or atoms or millions of other observable things which we can't see. Do you dispute all those things as well?

I think you said it all in that last sentence. You don't take science seriously :rolleyes:

Exactly
@ bugs; The overpopulation issue has nothing to do with science. If we carry on consuming at our current rate along with population rises we will start to have shortages. Its about numbers, with x amount of people consuming x amount of crops, water, fossil fuels etc we will run out in x amount of years. its not a theory dreamed up by some mad professor in his lab. Global warmings a different issue which im not going in to now