Why aren't you in a relationship?

[Richy1984]

Sounds like me.

[Trixie26]

And me!

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Deliverance?

1.Unattractive (the main reason)
2.Dont go out enough. Therefore dont get the opportunities to meet girls
3.Too quiet and probably too difficult for most to read
4.Wary of lacking sexual experience at my age
5.Not good at reading 'signs'

1. YOU think you're unattractive. Everyone has people that fancy them. And girls tend to fancy the person, not the looks.
2. Trying to go out more would be good. It's been the answer for me. But I still need more of it.
3. That'll get better with experience
4. There's ways to get sexual experience - for a bloke anyway
5. Experience will help again

When I first went into therapy, one of the best bits of advice I was given was to take one step at a time. Really small steps, just keep moving forward. It can be frustrating because progress seems so slow, but if you take something positive from every good thing and forget the disasters (they happen, I've had loads), then I find just occasionally something really good comes round the corner and smacks you in the face when you least expect it.

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by Progress

1. YOU think you're unattractive. Everyone has people that fancy them. And girls tend to fancy the person, not the looks.

Things might be different when people have the chance to get to know you first, but this certainly isn't the case on dating sites, like the ones Deliverance? was using. (Not to derail this too much into an internet dating thread and get it locked...) The inevitable solution is to go out and meet more people face to face, yes, but this is SAUK so you can understand why that poses difficulties for many on here.

And while it's true that experience will help, a problem faced by many is that they're expected, due to their age, to have that experience *already* and to have been in a number of relationships. This (understandably) raises anxiety levels even further.

[Defiance]

I also think attractiveness is subjective to a certain degree.

I notice on that TV show dating in the dark, when the lights finally come on that women especially seem to have more varied opinions on what they find attractive.

[Ben1981]

Originally Posted by Progress

1. YOU think you're unattractive. Everyone has people that fancy them. And girls tend to fancy the person, not the looks.
2. Trying to go out more would be good. It's been the answer for me. But I still need more of it.
3. That'll get better with experience
4. There's ways to get sexual experience - for a bloke anyway
5. Experience will help again

When I first went into therapy, one of the best bits of advice I was given was to take one step at a time. Really small steps, just keep moving forward. It can be frustrating because progress seems so slow, but if you take something positive from every good thing and forget the disasters (they happen, I've had loads), then I find just occasionally something really good comes round the corner and smacks you in the face when you least expect it.

1.The main problem here is on dating sites the person isnt given a chance to show personality as everythings judged on the pics they put up.
2. This is a work in progress for me. But in my case I always struggle to do things on my own and having no local friends around it makes achieving these things twice as hard. Hence why Im often housebound outside of working hours.
3.Agree
4.I get what you mean but unfortunately this is leafy Surrey and not seedy Amsterdam. Therefore not much advertising.
5.Could be true. But Ive been told being oblivious to picking up signs is a typical bloke thing.

I was given the same advice by my therapist and in some ways it has helped me and I am making slow progress. I do go out for drives in my car a lot more and have made the odd trip to the cinema. The problem is finding activities that involve meeting people to engage with and that your interested in.

Originally Posted by AnathemA

Things might be different when people have the chance to get to know you first, but this certainly isn't the case on dating sites, like the ones Deliverance? was using. (Not to derail this too much into an internet dating thread and get it locked...) The inevitable solution is to go out and meet more people face to face, yes, but this is SAUK so you can understand why that poses difficulties for many on here.

And while it's true that experience will help, a problem faced by many is that they're expected, due to their age, to have that experience *already* and to have been in a number of relationships. This (understandably) raises anxiety levels even further.

Agree very much Anathema. As I said above dating sites are judged on what people see and not what they act like. I have been told by a few people my personality is my strongpoint but its getting the chance to use it thats the problem.

As for the experience problem once you get to my age (30) its the stage where your expected to have had a few relationships under your belt at the least. Many are married/divorced with kids. Therefore a lot of potential partners will expect you to know what your doing in the dating world and wont be very patient or sympathetic if your still a novice.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by AnathemA

Things might be different when people have the chance to get to know you first, but this certainly isn't the case on dating sites, like the ones Deliverance? was using. (Not to derail this too much into an internet dating thread and get it locked...) The inevitable solution is to go out and meet more people face to face, yes, but this is SAUK so you can understand why that poses difficulties for many on here.

And while it's true that experience will help, a problem faced by many is that they're expected, due to their age, to have that experience *already* and to have been in a number of relationships. This (understandably) raises anxiety levels even further.

Agree with all of that. I never had much luck on dating sites (though the odd time I'm sure I would have done if I'd been a bit more open minded and confident). I understand the difficulty with SA, I've had to fight through some massive fear barriers and still back off things when maybe I shouldn't.

I've always believed there's a big link between self esteem and thoughts of unattractiveness. The lower your self esteem the less good looking you think you are, but you might actually be very attractive. I'm still trying to figure out how to raise self esteem.

[Rich Notts]

Originally Posted by Trixie26

And me!

Your off to the BBC you might nab the Doctor when he's around

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Deliverance?

1.The main problem here is on dating sites the person isnt given a chance to show personality as everythings judged on the pics they put up.
2. This is a work in progress for me. But in my case I always struggle to do things on my own and having no local friends around it makes achieving these things twice as hard. Hence why Im often housebound outside of working hours.
3.Agree
4.I get what you mean but unfortunately this is leafy Surrey and not seedy Amsterdam. Therefore not much advertising.
5.Could be true. But Ive been told being oblivious to picking up signs is a typical bloke thing.

Leafy Surrey, but I promise you they're out there

Sounds like you're making progress. What about sports or night classes?

It's probably good biological programming to be oblivious to signals, we're supposed to keep trying till we get a yes or a no. Tough being a bloke

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Deliverance?

As for the experience problem once you get to my age (30) its the stage where your expected to have had a few relationships under your belt at the least. Many are married/divorced with kids. Therefore a lot of potential partners will expect you to know what your doing in the dating world and wont be very patient or sympathetic if your still a novice.

I was older than you when I had my first relationship. I'd never kissed a girl at 30

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by AnathemA

Things might be different when people have the chance to get to know you first, but this certainly isn't the case on dating sites, like the ones Deliverance? was using.

he personally said he thinks he's ugly but i think thats just low self esteem talking tbh.

I honestly don't think dating sites are that good a measure of how attractive someone is, because for example if you are a girl you will get ALOT of messages regardless to what you look like, ...

i think what would give him a more accurate perception of where he might stand would be making a move on the opposite sex in the flesh,

[Ben1981]

Originally Posted by Progress

Sounds like you're making progress. What about sports or night classes?

Well Im crap at virtually every sport I try so wouldnt do my esteem any good going down that route. A part time college course is one Im thinking about.

Originally Posted by Progress

I was older than you when I had my first relationship. I'd never kissed a girl at 30

You must have been lucky to find someone understanding. I know theyre out there its just rare to come across someone thats patient enough to give inexperience a chance.

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by Defiance

he personally said he thinks he's ugly but i think thats just low self esteem talking tbh.

I honestly don't think dating sites are that good a measure of how attractive someone is,

If you're a man, you need to stand out in some way (not just be 'not ugly') because most women on those sites receive pages of messages and can essentially take their pick. Because of the way the sites are laid out, most women will see just your photo and (unless, again, you stand out in some way) never even read your profile. Physical attractiveness might not quite be everything, but it is 'most things'.

because for example if you are a girl you will get ALOT of messages regardless to what you look like, ...

Obviously, if you're a woman, it's a completely different story thanks to the gender ratios.

(We're hovering really close to the 'internet dating thread' precipice, so I'll stop now.)

[Saponara_Immobile]

are the gender ratios that uneven though? I thought it was more that men send the messages and women receive rather than there being that much more men on there?
And tbh it depends what sites you go on, the ones I went on you can get a good feel of what someone is like and into from their profile (obviously no guarentee you will "click" when you meet though).

(don't worry mods I won't recount my personal tales, so no need to close the thread).

[AnathemA]

Dunno. I was under the impression that the major ones were 2:1 at least. And yes, profile matters, but that's kind of the second stage of the audition.

Anyhow, I'm going to stop now lest I feel the wrath of the moderators.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Cynic

So how did you manage when it came to it? Did you not feel she would laugh at you being so inexperienced in your 30's?

Originally Posted by Deliverance?

You must have been lucky to find someone understanding. I know theyre out there its just rare to come across someone thats patient enough to give inexperience a chance.

I never thought she'd laugh at me for being inexperienced. I just had to do my best to avoid the question about past relationships. She didn't push me about it. I'd had some sexual experience (took a while to get that right), so that side wasn't a huge worry.

I'd put an add in the personal columns of the local paper, she was the only reply, we met at a pub. I was nervous but we chatted and hit it off instantly. I was so lucky to meet her. She was divorced so new how to make a relationship so I guess in some way I just followed her lead. Sex wise I took the lead because in her marriage I think she had just 'laid back and thought of England', and never got much enjoyment from it. Just because someone has been in a relationship doesn't mean they are as experienced as you might think.

We had a great relationship but because I'm a typical bloke, I didn't recognise my feelings for her and ended it, then much later I suddenly realised what I'd done, had a huge panic attack and breakdown and still miss her very much. But she's gone and I'm moving forwards.

[Saponara_Immobile]

I know quite a few couples in long-term relationships who have met via dating sites, so I think you are generalising there. There's different types of dating sites out there, some are obviously primarily used for people to get casual sex, others more for long-term relationships. But yeah there's no point me saying much else, as this thread will be locked soon if I do.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by AnathemA

If you're a man, you need to stand out in some way (not just be 'not ugly') because most women on those sites receive pages of messages and can essentially take their pick. Because of the way the sites are laid out, most women will see just your photo and (unless, again, you stand out in some way) never even read your profile. Physical attractiveness might not quite be everything, but it is 'most things'.

Have to disagree. Physical attractiveness is not what makes a true relationship. I've had to learn that, but it's something women tend to know from the start. It might spark the initial attraction but that's also much more a man thing.

To suggest women have it easy has also got to be wrong. I had a few dates from internet sites and there was a lot of long term single women there. The more casual type sites might be different I'll admit

I'm new here, why do they close threads about internet dating?

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Ninja81

As for men, it's even worse. Even if you're not a player, are good looking etc you're still going to have to compete against better looking men, the fact that these men are players doesn't matter, most women are not stupid and can spot them but because they've gotten so used to being contacted by 'very good looking' men they can't bring themselves to now have to lower their standards. So they think to themselves... 'Ok, so far all these good looking men have turned out to be arsewipes but at least I've proven I can attract an handsome male, eventually one of them will turn out to be decent!'. Of course that day never comes and they've proven nothing because even average looking women will get messages by men that just want to get their leg over.

You've got to get away from this preoccupation with looks. Women in general consider at the person not their looks. And us men also need to learn from women too - we need to start looking at their personality. Our obsession with looks stops us from exploring what she is really like. Women love men that are interested in them, genuinely interested in them as a person. They love it.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Ninja81

online people are very shallow, in real life maybe it's different, I cant comment on that.

That sounds logical, since you're not properly meeting the person you've only got the photos to go by. One of the reasons it doesn't work too well? I'm not a fan.

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by Progress

Have to disagree. Physical attractiveness is not what makes a true relationship.

You're not disagreeing with me, then? Because I never said that.

It might spark the initial attraction

That's precisely what I'm talking about. Present someone with a page of thumbnails and they'll click on the most attractive ones. You won't have the chance to win them over with your personality if you don't get past stage one.

To suggest women have it easy has also got to be wrong.

Never said that, either, but there's plenty stuff online to back up my 'women on dating sites get pages and pages of messages' statement. Some people here did experiments in the past as well.

I'm new here, why do they close threads about internet dating?

Because some people were naughty. (But not me. )

Looks like there's no turning back now, though...

*dons hard hat and anti-moderator protection cloak*

[Progress]

Originally Posted by AnathemA

You're not disagreeing with me, then? Because I never said that.

I think I mixed up your views on internet dating with your views on relationships when you said:

"Physical attractiveness might not quite be everything, but it is 'most things'."

I think we do agree that internet dating mostly doesn't work.

Excuse me being slow but I still don't see how people were being naughty.

[Johnni]

There's been a few threads on here of this type of nature and alot of them say how confidence, personality is probably more importnat in attracting someone that bog standard looks. I agree with this however what level of importance do looks still play in someone being attracted to another?.
By that i mean they must find some aspect of them physically attractive right, if so how much? Would you go out with someone who you clicked with personally and got on great but didn't find physically attractive/*fancy?

*You could see someone and say 'they are good looking in general' whereas the next person you think is good looking and also fancy just by looks alone i mean. I used the word fancy cos i think is different to thinking someone is attractive.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Johnni

By that i mean they must find some aspect of them physically attractive right, if so how much? Would you go out with someone who you clicked with personally and got on great but didn't find physically attractive?
You could see someone and say 'they are good looking in general' whereas the next person you think is good looking and also fancy just by looks alone i mean. I used the word fancy cos i think is different to finding someone attractive.

I know what you mean by 'fancy'. I think way too much emphasis is on looks. I had a fantastic relationship with a girl who I thought was just OK looking. Our personalities matched perfectly but I ended it anyway. Much later when I came to realise what my feelings had been I had a pretty major breakdown because I thought I'd made a huge mistake. But now some way down the line maybe it was right - it took all the pain of the loss to teach me stuff I needed to learn.

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by Progress

I know what you mean by 'fancy'. I think way too much emphasis is on looks. I had a fantastic relationship with a girl who I thought was just OK looking.

By OK looking do you mean you thought she was OK looking or would be considered as by others?

[The Chosen One]

Originally Posted by Ninja81

In that case try the following experiment - Create two fake profiles on a dating site, upload photos of a very good looking guy on one, on the other upload a picture of just an 'average looking' guy.

Report back and let us know who got the most messages/replies.

I agree that men go more on looks than women but online people are very shallow, in real life maybe it's different, I cant comment on that.

Exactly, its obvious the atrractive guy will obviously get more replies...and people still say that looks apparently do not matter or matter a tiny bit. No one looks at my profile anyway, unless I message them, because my pictures suck and also Im ugly. So you have to send messages to even get a slight chance of replying, which is about a 3% success rate for me.

And even then, the woman will randomly stop replying after 1 or 2 messages...

So its a red herring going on there if you think it will improve your chances. IT will depend on the person. For me, as Ive said earlier, I just dont have any real friends who I can go out with often. I dont get out often to meet women, and those few friends never invite me out. One of my "friends" on a day off from work goes to Liverpool (yes Liverpool from London) to his "shag buddy" rather than see me - I live about 15 min walk from my house. He never tells me when he has a day off as he works shifts, but obviously would rather go to Liverpool just for some sex, they are not even a couple. My other friend does something similar, his girlfriend takes priority nearly all the time.


. HAving no job does not help either

I have no social life and seeing as most people still meet people through friends or friends through friends, I am at a immediate disadvantage.

[Defiance]

firstly online people always usually say personality over looks but if they themselves are physically attractive then ofline you'll usually find they usually have attractive partners.

yeah, you'll occasionally see the hot woman with ugly bloke ..but if you think about it, with how many couples there actually are out there, that combination aint all that common. people usually pair off with those who are of similarish physical attractiveness to themselves.

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by The Chosen One

Exactly, its obvious the atrractive guy will obviously get more replies...and people still say that looks apparently do not matter or matter a tiny bit. No one looks at my profile anyway, unless I message them, because my pictures suck and also Im ugly. So you have to send messages to even get a slight chance of replying, which is about a 3% success rate for me.

And even then, the woman will randomly stop replying after 1 or 2 messages...

i have a worse reply rate than you online. around 1 in 60 will reply to me online .... then soon stop replying.

i think you should go and talk to women ofline, you will get a better idea of how you fair. in the past couple of weeks i have been approaching women very directly in bars, i dont beat around the bush and the first words that i usually say is me basically telling them that i found them attractive and so i came over to talk to them and with around 40-50% they will start flirting with me and we'll have a nice conversation. the other 50% they'll usually say thankyou or something and reply if you talk to them but you can tell they're not interested and are just being polite.

that's a hell of an improvement on pof where like less than 2% would reciprocate.


I have a feeling, that if you came ofline too that you'd do better than your 3% success rate.

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Johnni

By OK looking do you mean you thought she was OK looking or would be considered as by others?

To me she was just OK looking, I didn't fancy her (I met on a blind date). She was a good looking girl, not stunning, but plenty of guys would fancy her I'm sure. I only realise now what a lucky bastard I was. The chemistry we had was amazing. At the time I was just thinking that there were loads of other girls I fancied more, but now I realise I would never have had something so special with those others, we were right for each other. This is where us guys can learn from the girls I think, learn to see the person not the looks.

I'm still trying to figure out why you asked the question that way??

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by Defiance

people usually pair off with those who are of similarish physical attractiveness to themselves.

I have to agree.
However i'm not saying that cos people are going with people of a similar atttractiveness to them means they are more into looks. I think it shows that looks are still a important aspect.
The questions i asked before i was trying to understand from those that said personality etc is more important than looks, how much are looks important compared to other factors cos from what i read sometimes on this subject here and elsewhere it seems people are suggesting that looks don't hardly figure into what they find attractive in someone and to be honest i don't believe them if they do mean that. Maybe i'm interpreting what they are saying wrong so i asked cos i wanting to know which it was.

Originally Posted by Progress

To me she was just OK looking, I didn't fancy her (I met on a blind date). She was a good looking girl, not stunning, but plenty of guys would fancy her I'm sure. I only realise now what a lucky bastard I was. The chemistry we had was amazing. At the time I was just thinking that there were loads of other girls I fancied more, but now I realise I would never have had something so special with those others, we were right for each other. This is where us guys can learn from the girls I think, learn to see the person not the looks.

I'm still trying to figure out why you asked the question that way??

Thing is you say she was OK looking and then said she was a good looking girl, which is it? lol. I asked the question that way cos i wasn't sure if you were referring to her as OK looking by what others have said about her or your own view. I have seen people i know who would say something like 'my girlfriend is pretty attractive most people would say'.


I think in my case due to my lack of female interaction/attention i have grown somewhat more hooked onto looks as the main important thing when it comes to attracting a partner. It's easy to blame how you look on why you havent had much success rather than other things or in my case not hardly doing things where i would meet women around my age.
If i had more experience in this area i think i would realise more that other things apart from looks would make me more attractive. For example if a woman seemed interested in me even though i thought she was way out of my 'league' that would kinda work against the notion that looks are the main thing and that people won't really be interested in someone unless they were on their same level of attractiveness.
I know before anyone says that things like 'leagues' dont really matter that much and people dont take much notice however when you dont have much experience with the opposite sex as i said before it's easy to get hooked onto the whole looks thing as the key aspect in someone finding another person attractive. We need a excuse as to why we are crap at this and our looks is a obvious candidate most times.

I also think that having something like BDD has made me more not shallow but too much aware of other people's looks. If anyone who has BDD will know we will notice minute aspects of our appearance and concentrate on them rather than look at ourseleves as a whole. So i would end up noticing aspects of a women's appearance maybe cos thats what i do with myself so i end up overanalysing her rather than just look at her naturally like everyone else would.