Indulging in fantasy

[Sunrise]

I think one of the reasons I struggle so much out in the real world is that I spend all my time alone fantasising about being a different person living a completely different life, but when I'm actually with other people I'm confronted with the reality that it's not who I really am.

I'm so scared of the real world and I completely despise who I am. I hate that I've grown into a pathetic, middle aged loser. That's how others see me, but I don't like seeing myself like that so retreat into this fantasy world. That's not who I want to be and that's not who I should have been.

I stubbornly refuse to accept the reality of who I am. Self-acceptance is supposed to be the solution, but it's not what I want. The thought of having to accept that is absolutely mortifying.

The person I want to be, who I think I should have been, isn't something I seem to be able to realistically achieve. No matter how much I try to convince myself, it's just not how other people see me. I just want to be able to convince people that the person they see isn't the real me, I want them to see the person I think I am in my head.

I don't feel like I can function around other people any more. I'm completely to the fantasy me who doesn't really exist. I'm obsessed with becoming this person I am not. I wonder if this is a common way of thinking for those like me who are bottom of the social food chain? It's an extreme form of comfort zone I guess.

[Tembo]

Reading this, it’s like reading my own thoughts at the moment. I understand how you feel. I’m increasingly feeling this way.

However, I do think you are too hard on yourself Sunrise.

[biscuits]

Do you feel like it links to maladaptive daydreaming. (It always sounds like such a harsh term!)

I used to do it when I was a teenager but as my anxiety lessened and I became more sociable it to went away. It was my go to coping mechanism for selective mutism. It must have been my brains way of compensating for the lack of social interaction and experiences.

To me it feels like the brain's way of getting the things we desire.

You're highly rated on sauk - hopefully that counts a little bit

[Sunrise]

I've never heard of that term before, I'm not sure. It's probably a form of disassociation, that's something I do a lot.

I'm not sure if it's an anxiety thing. I think it's more likely because I've completely failed at functioning in the real world so the only way I can find pleasure in social activities is by imagining ones where I'm actually successful.

I'm not capable of normal social interaction and I find being out in the real world pretty intolerable the majority of the time, so it's a form of escapism I think.

[Merry]

I was similar to Biscuits in that it was something I did a lot as a teenager. I still remember parallel fantasy lives that I had at that time. It's not something that I do now, or have done much in adulthood.
I wonder if it might be linked to how much autonomy a person feels in their own life? I know as a teenager I felt very powerless and trapped.

[Hopeforme]

I really thought I was the only one. Since a teenager I have lived in a fantasy world where there has been deep interactions between characters and full-on lived lives. Alot of these fantasies were recurrent. This had become so deeply entrenched that I was just lost up in my head.

In the summer of last year, for reasons that are unknown to me, I began to come out of this dissocation a little bit for the first time in probably ever. I think this started qhen I was young.

It has been a shock to my mind to be in the "real world" and seeing things from completely different perspectives and insights, that frankly are terrifying.

I suffer from depersonalisation and derealisation which is a form of dissociation, but this other form of dissociation has decreased.

I do still go into this fantasy world but I try not to stay there too long.

I used to be so caught up in it I would actually have conversations with myself and people in these fantasies out loud. It obviously looks crazy and people have laughed and pointed it out. I am working hard to make sure I don't gibber to myself in public anymore.

[Sunrise]

I don't find forcing myself to mix with people helps me get out of this, quite the opposite in fact. I experience the world as a very unforgiving place and I don't seem to have the skills to make it out there.

I'm always told that the more you do something, the easier it gets, but I don't really find that to be the case. I simply don't mix well with others, no matter how hard I try.

Escapism feels like my only release. It's the only way I can feel safe and comfortable.

[biscuits]

@Merry that rings true for me as well - feeling trapped and powerless.

@hopeforme and sunrise, that is interesting- the depersonalisation. It's not something I've experienced before and I struggle to imagine what it's like. That's not helpful sorry. Does depersonalisation happen regularly or is there anything that ever brings it on? Does anything help to alleviate it?

[Hopeforme]

@Sunrise - I know exactly how you feel. I experience the world as a terrifying hostile place. No wonder we feel the way we do and experience a high level of dissociation and fantasy. There is no where else to go.

What skills do you lack, and where do you think you can find them/learn etc. Which areas are you deficient in? Is there something in particular. An analogy is I am okay at housework but need to really learn more cooking.

And that thing about just facing your fears and it getting easier...read this please. Interestingly, it's from a world class CBT specialist for SA!

https://socialanxietyinstitute.org/s...xiety-disorder

@biscuits - yeah it really sucks. I can't even explain how debilitating it was for years. The day it came on was a day that nearly killed me. Mine is 24/7 now, it's a full state my brain has permanently gone into. I had no Self for years. Just a hollow empty shell not looking out through my own eyes. Really horrible. I have it still but I am more functional now and I tink about it less which is quite incredible really all things considered. Nothing alleviates it that I have discovered. Perhaps medication of different classes is worth a try.

[Sunrise]

I don't have very good chemistry with other people, there's a lot of bad vibes. I don't really know how else to explain it. It's not really about a lack of practical skills that you can learn. I can make small talk but not much more than that. I give off bad energy.

[Hopeforme]

Is it like this with both men and women? I remember you told me about where you live in wales and all the weird energy there. The people in your village, frankly, sound like morons. Have you experienced the same feedback in cities? Well, there must be SOMETHING you are doing. Are you going around thinking of killing people when you talk to them or how you can harm them? THat would give off some kind of bad energy but I'm sure you're not!

Do you feel highly anxious during your interactions? I'm wondering lately if that causes some kind of "bad vibes" because the other person feels uncomfortable. Or strange eye contact or body langauge, although I couldn't tell you what specifically.

Actually here is a request for everyone in this thread - why don't we brainstorm on Sunrise's points about what these "bad vibes" could be and what's going wrong. Or make another thread on it.

My point is simply that despite our tendencies to live and retreat in our heads, something is happening in the real world when we talk to people. And we are in the real world at all times!

I have had alot of exmaples I could list of people giving me weird shit and bad confrontations or experiences happening and I do not know why.

Recently I went into a pub I actually feel "safe" in from a social point of view because you're pretty much left alone and some man displayed strange, challenging eye contact with me and I feel like I made lots of people feel uncomfortable. Like I screwed up the energy.

Is some of it in my head? I don't know.

Unless we are going down a spiritual path, which I know nothing about and I am 50/50 on the existence of these things, someone's "energy" is really just the vibe of how you carry yourself and how you make other people feel. Open to hear thoughts and disagreements.

[gregarious_introvert]

^ I could (not for the first time) be talking complete and utter hairy spherical male appendages here, as I know nothing about depersonalisation and dissociation, but I do have some experience of bad vibes and making people feel uncomfortable. For years (read half a century), I had no idea how the world saw me or what I was doing wrong; all I knew is that I was universally rejected, vilified and abused - until someone actually told me how aggressive I looked to other people, how I couldn't "read the room" (I had no idea that non-verbal communication even existed and body language was as incomprehensible to me as Urdu or Cantonese) and how defensive my posture was. Of course, I had no idea that this was related to being neurodivergent (I had suspected for two decades that I was autistic, but wouldn't be diagnosed until a year after this moment of revelation), but I began trying to learn how to interpret non-verbal communication, how to control my expression and voice tones (I am thankful that I had help in this respect, I think having someone to act as a "mirror" was vital), how to make my body language more welcome - in short, how to communicate effectively. I am still learning, I began 54 years later than I would have done if I were NT, but I am no longer universally rejected (I am still failing at building friendships, but getting closer all the time) and seem to have reached a level where I am accepted, if not quite welcomed with open arms. I have changed my vibe.

I am not suggesting that it's easy, or even that it's possible for everybody (I haven't experienced every neurological condition or psychological state), only that with the right guidance and a lot of learning (it is like studying an unfamiliar subject) and hard work, some of us can change the way others see us; obviously, the later in life we begin, the harder it will be and the less dramatic the change in how we are received, but making other people feel uncomfortable is real and the only change we can make to that is by understanding it from their perspective and not changing who we are, but changing how we are seen (I know some people will say that what I am advocating is masking, but I don't feel that I am masking, in fact I feel that, having opened the door to social interaction, I am actually allowing myself to be more "me" than I was able to do previously).

So, am I on the wrong track here, or does any of that resonate with anyone?

Sunrise, my interpretation of self-acceptance is not that you have to accept who you are if you look at yourself and don't like what you see; to me, it means that you accept your faults and the need to change them. Self-acceptance of something you and others don't like is pointless, because nothing changes. When you are your fantasy person, what is different about you? Can you make those differences become a reality? I know you can't make yourself better looking (I have the same issue!) but can you change how you talk to people, how you listen to people, how you are around people? Smiling, eye contact, asking questions and taking a genuine interest in the lives of others can go a long way (I'm not saying that you're not doing any of those things, it's just a generalised observation which may or may not be useful); that fantasy person, at least, is a portrayal of how you want to be, so what you need now is to look at how you can bring that person into the real world.

[biscuits]

Originally Posted by Hopeforme

@biscuits - yeah it really sucks. I can't even explain how debilitating it was for years. The day it came on was a day that nearly killed me. Mine is 24/7 now, it's a full state my brain has permanently gone into. I had no Self for years. Just a hollow empty shell not looking out through my own eyes. Really horrible. I have it still but I am more functional now and I tink about it less which is quite incredible really all things considered. Nothing alleviates it that I have discovered. Perhaps medication of different classes is worth a try.

sorry that you experience this. For some reason I thought it was episodic. So glad you find ways to function around it

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Hopeforme

Is it like this with both men and women? I remember you told me about where you live in wales and all the weird energy there. The people in your village, frankly, sound like morons. Have you experienced the same feedback in cities? Well, there must be SOMETHING you are doing. Are you going around thinking of killing people when you talk to them or how you can harm them? THat would give off some kind of bad energy but I'm sure you're not!

Do you feel highly anxious during your interactions? I'm wondering lately if that causes some kind of "bad vibes" because the other person feels uncomfortable. Or strange eye contact or body langauge, although I couldn't tell you what specifically.

Actually here is a request for everyone in this thread - why don't we brainstorm on Sunrise's points about what these "bad vibes" could be and what's going wrong. Or make another thread on it.

My point is simply that despite our tendencies to live and retreat in our heads, something is happening in the real world when we talk to people. And we are in the real world at all times!

I have had alot of exmaples I could list of people giving me weird shit and bad confrontations or experiences happening and I do not know why.

Recently I went into a pub I actually feel "safe" in from a social point of view because you're pretty much left alone and some man displayed strange, challenging eye contact with me and I feel like I made lots of people feel uncomfortable. Like I screwed up the energy.

Is some of it in my head? I don't know.

Unless we are going down a spiritual path, which I know nothing about and I am 50/50 on the existence of these things, someone's "energy" is really just the vibe of how you carry yourself and how you make other people feel. Open to hear thoughts and disagreements.

I do think that us being anxious can have an effect on our own body language and "vibes" and also the way people react to us as a result.

Having said that I do think that some of us also might be having facial expressions at times that we don't realise. My partner has actually said to me before "are you ok, you look really angry?" when I wasn't at all I was just concentrating or thinking about something.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by gregarious_introvert

^ I could (not for the first time) be talking complete and utter hairy spherical male appendages here, as I know nothing about depersonalisation and dissociation, but I do have some experience of bad vibes and making people feel uncomfortable. For years (read half a century), I had no idea how the world saw me or what I was doing wrong; all I knew is that I was universally rejected, vilified and abused - until someone actually told me how aggressive I looked to other people, how I couldn't "read the room" (I had no idea that non-verbal communication even existed and body language was as incomprehensible to me as Urdu or Cantonese) and how defensive my posture was. Of course, I had no idea that this was related to being neurodivergent (I had suspected for two decades that I was autistic, but wouldn't be diagnosed until a year after this moment of revelation), but I began trying to learn how to interpret non-verbal communication, how to control my expression and voice tones (I am thankful that I had help in this respect, I think having someone to act as a "mirror" was vital), how to make my body language more welcome - in short, how to communicate effectively. I am still learning, I began 54 years later than I would have done if I were NT, but I am no longer universally rejected (I am still failing at building friendships, but getting closer all the time) and seem to have reached a level where I am accepted, if not quite welcomed with open arms. I have changed my vibe.

I am not suggesting that it's easy, or even that it's possible for everybody (I haven't experienced every neurological condition or psychological state), only that with the right guidance and a lot of learning (it is like studying an unfamiliar subject) and hard work, some of us can change the way others see us; obviously, the later in life we begin, the harder it will be and the less dramatic the change in how we are received, but making other people feel uncomfortable is real and the only change we can make to that is by understanding it from their perspective and not changing who we are, but changing how we are seen (I know some people will say that what I am advocating is masking, but I don't feel that I am masking, in fact I feel that, having opened the door to social interaction, I am actually allowing myself to be more "me" than I was able to do previously).

So, am I on the wrong track here, or does any of that resonate with anyone?

Sunrise, my interpretation of self-acceptance is not that you have to accept who you are if you look at yourself and don't like what you see; to me, it means that you accept your faults and the need to change them. Self-acceptance of something you and others don't like is pointless, because nothing changes. When you are your fantasy person, what is different about you? Can you make those differences become a reality? I know you can't make yourself better looking (I have the same issue!) but can you change how you talk to people, how you listen to people, how you are around people? Smiling, eye contact, asking questions and taking a genuine interest in the lives of others can go a long way (I'm not saying that you're not doing any of those things, it's just a generalised observation which may or may not be useful); that fantasy person, at least, is a portrayal of how you want to be, so what you need now is to look at how you can bring that person into the real world.

Incredible! That makes total sense to me and resonates. You write really well too.

How did you make those changes and how did you go about studying this? Did you literally get books on body language and read them. But it sounds like you had somebody who could coach you?

I have a book on body language. I need to read it! I've only started 2 pages.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by biscuits

sorry that you experience this. For some reason I thought it was episodic. So glad you find ways to function around it

Thank you

[gregarious_introvert]

Originally Posted by Hopeforme

Incredible! That makes total sense to me and resonates. You write really well too.

How did you make those changes and how did you go about studying this? Did you literally get books on body language and read them. But it sounds like you had somebody who could coach you?

I have a book on body language. I need to read it! I've only started 2 pages.

Thank you, I often feel that if I could communicate solely with the written word, I wouldn't have had nearly as many issues I didn't get books on body language, but I was fortunate enough, at the time, to have someone (my partner) who was able - and willing - to coach me, although more on facial expressions than body language; I did learn a little about the difference between "open" and "closed" body language, which was very useful and even just learning to walk with my head up (I used to be very hunched) made a massive difference.

Learning to smile naturally was one of the most difficult things; I'm pretty sure that in the early days, I greeted people with a forced grimace, but once I started becoming more accepted (which, I won't lie, took a considerable amount of time and exposure), the smile started to come more naturally. Eye contact remains difficult (I thought I had got better at this, but a friend recently told me that I'm still not good at it), but I've also been reminded that how much eye contact is appropriate can be a cultural thing and that in some cultures, excessive eye contact is considered rude (I travel a lot and meet people from varying cultural backgrounds, so this is another complication, as is personal space, ie. how close or far away you should stand from the person you are addressing).

Maybe I should get a book on body language, perhaps there are things I'm still missing; much of my "education" has been trial and error and I do at least feel that I am better able to gauge people's reactions than I was in the past, when I was mostly oblivious to the consternation I was causing.

[Sunrise]

I'm deliberately defensive. It's the only way I can get through each day. It's a tough world out there and it's the only way I know how to survive.

I'm not charismatic enough to be friendly. I'm not likeable enough. Whenever I try it only ever comes across as fake and forced. It comes across as creepy and makes others feel uncomfortable. I probably come across better when I'm angry and miserable.

I don't have the sufficient social skills or personality (or looks) to become the person I want to be in my head. Trying to be that person turned me into a laughing stock.

The last thing people want is some creepy bloke smiling at them! That would be a guaranteed way of getting my head kicked in.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'm deliberately defensive. It's the only way I can get through each day. It's a tough world out there and it's the only way I know how to survive.

I'm not charismatic enough to be friendly. I'm not likeable enough. Whenever I try it only ever comes across as fake and forced. It comes across as creepy and makes others feel uncomfortable. I probably come across better when I'm angry and miserable.

I don't have the sufficient social skills or personality (or looks) to become the person I want to be in my head. Trying to be that person turned me into a laughing stock.

The last thing people want is some creepy bloke smiling at them! That would be a guaranteed way of getting my head kicked in.

I think that's probably it then Sunrise, not to sound like a smart-arse. Perhaps you are putting out defensive body language? Maybe even hostile, or suspicious or confrontational? Just thoughts; I obviously wouldn't know.

I think the coming across as creepy or making others feeling uncomfortable could be because of a incongruence between your spoken words of trying to socialise and your body language and posture? If you are trying to be friendly but say you have a scowl on your face or unfriendly eye contact then people could feel weird - and in that case according to this body language book, people go on what the body language reveals as the truer message. It's a much more accurate portrayal of the truth of someone's thoughts, attitudes, feelings than what can be spoken verbally, where as humans of course we can lie, edit, make things up etc.

It's an idea.

Yeah I relate so much to you, it's uncanny. I tried improving my social skills a few years back and all I got mostly was weird reactions and people wanting to physically fight me. I have been assaulted before in different circumstances and it has scared me. I don't want to get into fights but down the line when I am physically able to, I will take up martial arts and get bigger. A deterrent will do fine for me.

So what happened in the "laughing stock" case? Has anyone ever hurt you?

[gregarious_introvert]

Originally Posted by Hopeforme

according to this body language book, people go on what the body language reveals as the truer message. It's a much more accurate portrayal of the truth of someone's thoughts, attitudes, feelings than what can be spoken verbally, where as humans of course we can lie, edit, make things up etc.

I don't want to get into fights but down the line when I am physically able to, I will take up martial arts and get bigger. A deterrent will do fine for me.

I have read that it takes people a fraction of a second to decide whether they want to get to know you, usually before they have even spoken to you. Body language / non-verbal communication is definitely the key to better social interaction.

I would be wary of using physicality as a deterrent: although it may deter those who wouldn't normally be aggressive, there are others who like to "prove" themselves by taking on the bigger people. I've found that the best defence is not reacting when someone acts aggressively towards me, walking away if possible, otherwise staying silent and keeping my hands by my side (for some reason, in those situations, people are less likely to hit you if they think you're not going to make any effort to defend yourself).

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by gregarious_introvert

I have read that it takes people a fraction of a second to decide whether they want to get to know you, usually before they have even spoken to you. Body language / non-verbal communication is definitely the key to better social interaction.

I would be wary of using physicality as a deterrent: although it may deter those who wouldn't normally be aggressive, there are others who like to "prove" themselves by taking on the bigger people. I've found that the best defence is not reacting when someone acts aggressively towards me, walking away if possible, otherwise staying silent and keeping my hands by my side (for some reason, in those situations, people are less likely to hit you if they think you're not going to make any effort to defend yourself).

Yeah I have heard that statistic too. It depressed me and I didn't want to believe it because of my feelings of social anxiety outside the house and thus my likely giving off of bad vibes and negative body language. Went into "denial" mode.

That is true. I feel insecure about my body for sure. I want to look very different from how I do now. I think it would give me a boost of confidence, in my case, although I am not interested in getting into fights. I don't like dealing with idiots' aggressive behaviour. Do you find that people being aggressive to you is a frequently occuring problem?

Also you used strong language when you said that for many many years you were "villified and abused". This was before you became body-language aware (I think). I don't doubt you for a second if that's what happened to you, but what actually went on? Why all the nastiness to you?

[gregarious_introvert]

Originally Posted by Hopeforme

Yeah I have heard that statistic too. It depressed me and I didn't want to believe it because of my feelings of social anxiety outside the house and thus my likely giving off of bad vibes and negative body language. Went into "denial" mode.

That is true. I feel insecure about my body for sure. I want to look very different from how I do now. I think it would give me a boost of confidence, in my case, although I am not interested in getting into fights. I don't like dealing with idiots' aggressive behaviour. Do you find that people being aggressive to you is a frequently occuring problem?

Also you used strong language when you said that for many many years you were "villified and abused". This was before you became body-language aware (I think). I don't doubt you for a second if that's what happened to you, but what actually went on? Why all the nastiness to you?

The answer to your last paragraph could be a long one (although I'm no stranger to long posts) People being aggressive to me is no longer a frequently occuring problem, in fact, I think it's about seven-and-a-half years since it last happened, when I was first emerging from my most recent agoraphobic episode (I was living somewhere else then and I had been branded as weird by most of my neighbours, which was also the reason I was evicted from that house, which turned out to be one of the best things which ever happened to me!).

The rejection and abuse began when I started school (back in 1966) when I was physically bullied from my first day, right up until the fifth form in secondary school, to the point where I had to vary my route to and from school because groups of other boys would be waiting to beat me up and I would have to find places to hide during break times. At university, the abuse wasn't physical, it was just made clear to me in no uncertain terms that my presence wasn't welcome. I lost jobs regularly because I didn't "fit in", even though I was always a good and dedicated worker and the first to help a colleague who needed anything. Apart from my first ever "proper" job (at Thames Water, 1984-86, where most of the staff were a tad on the unconventional side), I was always deterred from attending any social events. At my last job, in a factory in Newton Aycliffe, there was one line manager who was threatening towards me - she actually sacked me at one point (after my first week) until I appealed to HR and got reinstated, but after that she did her best to make my life there unbearable (but I'm stubborn).

I tried to join various social groups, but was often called things like "weirdo" and told not to attend again (sometimes after my first time attending, although in one group, I managed to attend five times before being told that I was unwelcome). I'd be told that I knew how I made others feel and what I had done wrong, but I had no idea (so I can only attribute it to body language, facial expressions and voice tone - I always tried to be friendly). I could be standing in a pub or walking down the street and people would accuse me of staring at them (I always tried to fix my gaze on points in the distance, but I do believe that I used to seem like I was staring, without meaning to) and become threatening. It was, I believe, the cause of my agoraphobia - I became so scared of the reaction I would get that it was easier for me not to leave the house for months at a time (the last episode lasted almost three years).

My memories of those times have become somewhat hazy over time (I do recall some details), as if they happened to another person and I'm viewing them from a distance, but I have had flashbacks to some events (these don't happen anymore, but used to be quite frequent and vivid, as if I were actually re-living them). In contrast, my memories of the past seven years or so are detailed and a lot less traumatic. I hope that's enough to answer your questions?

[Sunrise]

I've never wondered why people don't warm to me, it's always been pretty obvious. I know full well that I come across badly to others, and I know exactly what I'm doing "wrong".

I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" though. It's a survival technique. I have to be defensive and closed off, it's the only way I can get through each day.

It's a tough world out there and you need to know how to protect yourself. I find it mind boggling whenever I hear about how lovely and kind most people are. Unfortunately that's not my experience of the real world at all . Any show of weakness or vulnerability and people are quick to pounce. The slightest mistake can completely destroy you.

I'm defensive, but it's intentional. It gives people a warning, and let's them know that I'm not prepared to take any shit from them.

The times where I've tried to open up to people I've completely humiliated myself. The "real me" is an absolutely pathetic specimen. If I'm defensive and closed off people don't see that.

I don't see myself as a some sort of victim, I'm just suspicious of other people and their motives. I don't trust anywhere. Most people are opportunists, and if they see an opportunity to take advantage of you or get one over on you then they will.

[Hopeforme]

gregarious_introvert: thanks for your reply, i will reply to it soon.

Sunrise - well at least you have the answer then. thing is, it it will just keep on repeating unless you interrupt the pattern somewhere. it may mean moving to a better area or something, but i guess you have to drop your guard somewhere and sometime. not fully, im not saying you become naive or see positive traits where there aren't any, but give and take a bit. no one can get close if you're signalling "get the **** away from me, im serious about that".

butttt, that brings me onto the next point, you don't want anyone to get close at all because you're saying the "real you" is "pathetic". i think there is your core issue. if you felt better about who you were as a person, then people getting closer to you would be less of a deal.

i deal with "toxic shame" so i get it!

i agree you need to protect yourself out there and be able to see people for who they are - i have learnt that from you, so its not like your defensiveness is totally useless or mis-intended.

[biscuits]

^ that's a really great post.

[Sunrise]

If people stopped calling pathetic I'd probably feel a lot better about who I was.

My issues aren't "mental health", they're a core part of my personality. I need to change who I am to become more respected, but I'm not able to do it convincingly enough.

I feel like I need surgery to change my appearance first and foremost. That would make me feel a lot better about myself. I don't feel like the way I looks fits the person I want to be. Not in a trans way, but I'm not happy with my appearance and I don't think it's the real me. It's not about losing weight or dressing differently, I need to completely change my appearance to become the person I want to be. What I look like now isn't who I think I should be.

I need to learn how to become genuinely charismatic. My attempts at faking it don't work. Trying to fake it comes across as awkward and very odd. I don't know how to actually learn this stuff. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos on techniques, but it never comes across as genuine when I try to put them into practice.

There's a monumental amount of work that needs doing before I can begin to start feeling better about myself. I don't know where to start. I've tried to take self-improvement advice but I've been mostly unsuccessful. I've never really read any success about people like me who have completely changed themselves. There's plenty of stuff about self-acceptance, but that's different. I don't want to accept myself,I want to change myself.

I'm obsessed with self-improvement. I don't understand why people question my attitude and desire because I am completely obsessed with becoming someone different.

[Merry]

^ Do you think plastic surgery would help? I feel like people generally find plastic surgery in others a bit off putting? In a kind of uncanny valley way. Even if it doesn't look especially bad, someone who's had plastic surgery (on their face I mean) never looks quite right.
Might just be my feelings though, it seems more popular than it used to be. Maybe because of the internet and people taking so many selfies and stuff.

[Sunrise]

People find how I currently look "a bit off putting."

Attitudes are changing. I thought these days it was seen as another form of self-improvement and generally considered a positive thing.

My appearance just isn't "right". I don't know how else to explain it. It just doesn't feel like the real me. I'm not sure it's a vanity thing, I'm not comparing myself to influencers or whatever, I just don't feel like I look how I should. It's not really a body image issue, I'm far too old to be worrying about that sort of thing.

[choirgirl]

The acceptance is a starting point, not an ending point.

Some people have boundaries but otherwise they're quite approachable. Don't know quite how they manage it.

Yes, I've done the maladaptive daydreaming a lot. Doesn't work now of course, although I am still quite fond of avatar self. She has always been more attractive and needed less decompression time, found her way in life early, has had some success, a decent sex life in the past, settled down at a historically normal age, has a child and is a superwoman. She's gay now too, she wasn't before!

[Amara 94]

What is a loser? What does it mean to be a loser? I think when you look into a “losers” life story or step into their shoes a bit, have understanding of how their thought processes might work, you realise that they are far from being a loser.

I don’t have the answer but understand acceptance is hard. I don’t think it’s something you can just try to do. At least for me, understanding how I am leads to a bit more acceptance.