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  #1  
Old 21st November 2009, 19:41
benney benney is offline
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Default how to beat SA

ive got the solution to beat SA forever
  #2  
Old 21st November 2009, 19:50
Martian Martian is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

So are you going to share it?
  #3  
Old 21st November 2009, 19:59
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

proactive behaviour.

thats it , its as simple as that.

in a social situation a normal person automaticaly proacts without even thinking about it. but a social phobic reacts.

if you didnt behave the way you do in social situations you wouldnt be a social phobic

in any situation you have 2 options - react or proact. e.g if you blush you can either react by using safety behaviours to hide the blushing like escaping or pulling your hair over your face, or you can proact by letting everyone see you blush

react gives instant momentary pleasure but leaves lasting anxiety

proact gives instant momentary anxiety but leaves lasting peace

if you behaved automatically like a normal person then you wouldnt be social phobic. the behaviour is what defines it. keep behaving the way you always have and you will remain a social phobic . change the behaviour and you are normal
  #4  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:05
Cookie-Monster Cookie-Monster is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Don't quit your day job.
  #5  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:06
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster
Don't quit your day job.
so you disagree with me ? are you sure about that ?
  #6  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:10
brian_maiden brian_maiden is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Next week, how to cure depression: Cheer the **** up.
  #7  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:11
no0ne no0ne is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_maiden
Next week, how to cure depression: Cheer the **** up.
  #8  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:12
Martian Martian is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

so you disagree with me ? are you sure about that ?

No, agree as it's what i know already - but don't know how to 'just do it' or, as you rightly say, i wouldn't have a problem!
  #9  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:12
no0ne no0ne is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by benney
proactive behaviour.

thats it , its as simple as that.

in a social situation a normal person automaticaly proacts without even thinking about it. but a social phobic reacts.

if you didnt behave the way you do in social situations you wouldnt be a social phobic

in any situation you have 2 options - react or proact. e.g if you blush you can either react by using safety behaviours to hide the blushing like escaping or pulling your hair over your face, or you can proact by letting everyone see you blush

react gives instant momentary pleasure but leaves lasting anxiety

proact gives instant momentary anxiety but leaves lasting peace

if you behaved automatically like a normal person then you wouldnt be social phobic. the behaviour is what defines it. keep behaving the way you always have and you will remain a social phobic . change the behaviour and you are normal
**** me if i'd known it was that simple i could have sorted it years ago did we copy that from a self help book?
  #10  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:16
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian
so you disagree with me ? are you sure about that ?

No, agree as it's what i know already - but don't know how to 'just do it' or, as you rightly say, i wouldn't have a problem!
i know how to do it though, how to proact
  #11  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:18
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFG
**** me if i'd known it was that simple i could have sorted it years ago did we copy that from a self help book?
iy is that simple but you must remmeber the word simple does not mean easy . the word simple means straight foward and uncomplicated .

it is simple but its also difficult cos it takes effort , consistency, and its very uncomfiortbale to do

there is no other way of overcoming sa though. the only way you can to it is to proact its as simple as that.
  #12  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:19
Martian Martian is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Well don't hold it to yourself. Explain it! Or do you want paying??
Either tell us or .... put it in a book and make millions!
  #13  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:20
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian
Well don't hold it to yourself. Explain it! Or do you want paying??
Either tell us or .... put it in a book and make millions!
all in gud time sir
  #14  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:24
Martian Martian is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

[it is simple but its also difficult cos it takes effort , consistency, and its very uncomfiortbale to do

the only way you can to it is to proact its as simple as that.[/QUOTE]


Yes, i KNOW that - but it's the SA that grips me that stops me proacting for gods sake. which came first the chiucken or the egg?......... For me either and both are the unconscious irrational fears that STOP PROACTING HAPPENING.
  #15  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:28
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian
[it is simple but its also difficult cos it takes effort , consistency, and its very uncomfiortbale to do

the only way you can to it is to proact its as simple as that.

Yes, i KNOW that - but it's the SA that grips me that stops me proacting for gods sake. which came first the chiucken or the egg?......... For me either and both are the unconscious irrational fears that STOP PROACTING HAPPENING.[/QUOTE]

aha we have a rocket scientist int he house . amrtian the genious

the only way to do it is to proact but becasue you feel anxious and have all of these negative thoughts in your head then proacting seems impossible. its like a very weak 1% of you is trying to make you proact and then a very powerful 99% of you is trying to make you react.

but i know how to stop that 99% of you trying to make you react and i know how to get rid of that anxiety and those thoughts in your hed

when you do that proacting becomes possible
  #16  
Old 21st November 2009, 20:33
Optimistic Optimistic is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by benney
in a social situation a normal person automaticaly proacts without even thinking about it. but a social phobic reacts.
I agree but how can I make myself do it 'without even thinking about it'. By making myself do it I'm having to think about it.

Quote:
if you didnt behave the way you do in social situations you wouldnt be a social phobic
A few people I know refuse to believe I have SA as I talk fairly confidently around them. They don't notice my 'behaviour' but I do and I think that people are judging me negatively a lot of the time.

I actually believe it is more to do with our thinking, since we exaggerate every negative out of proportion.

Quote:
in any situation you have 2 options - react or proact. e.g if you blush you can either react by using safety behaviours to hide the blushing like escaping or pulling your hair over your face, or you can proact by letting everyone see you blush.

Of you behaved automatically like a normal person then you wouldnt be social phobic. the behaviour is what defines it. keep behaving the way you always have and you will remain a social phobic . change the behaviour and you are normal
But if I was blushing and thinking about it negatively then I don't feel showing peoplet would reduce my anxiety because I would get even more worried that they are judging me. I think people without SA just wouldn't really worry even if they blushed, just because they didn't think about it negatively.

I think you're right that people might perceive me to be less anxious. But I don't think that means I wouldn't have SA since it would still be a big deal for me as I might assume they are judging me badly.

Quote:
but i know how to stop that 99% of you trying to make you react and i know how to get rid of that anxiety and those thoughts in your hed
I didn't see your latest post so I guess I'm waiting for this. I guess its subconscious related (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
  #17  
Old 21st November 2009, 22:40
Martian Martian is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

  #18  
Old 21st November 2009, 23:01
Diluted Diluted is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

This amuses me much.

What's with all the waiting?
  #19  
Old 21st November 2009, 23:08
iloverain iloverain is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

  #20  
Old 21st November 2009, 23:10
peterjohn peterjohn is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by benney
proactive behaviour.

thats it , its as simple as that.

in a social situation a normal person automaticaly proacts without even thinking about it. but a social phobic reacts.

if you didnt behave the way you do in social situations you wouldnt be a social phobic

in any situation you have 2 options - react or proact. e.g if you blush you can either react by using safety behaviours to hide the blushing like escaping or pulling your hair over your face, or you can proact by letting everyone see you blush

react gives instant momentary pleasure but leaves lasting anxiety

proact gives instant momentary anxiety but leaves lasting peace

if you behaved automatically like a normal person then you wouldnt be social phobic. the behaviour is what defines it. keep behaving the way you always have and you will remain a social phobic . change the behaviour and you are normal
could I ask if you have put this into practise. I feel that I've suffered from other people too much......
  #21  
Old 22nd November 2009, 16:11
hardy hardy is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

proaction is right but its not everything .Some of it IS simple ( assuming you can remove anxiety)
but on the other hand it seems a bit like telling somone that to drive a car all it takes is jumping in and away you go. Its like Nobodys going to offer any hints or guidance youre just supposed to put up with the crashes until youve learnt!

Is it because "normal" people never had to learn by diving in the deep end they learnt through friends and family in childhood. Therefore they cant understand the SA perspective and the helpful books and lectures dont get written.
  #22  
Old 22nd November 2009, 17:03
benney benney is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

ok so here it goes .

a normal person automatically proacts cos that behaviour is a mental habit. when you wake up in the morning and go to your breakfast cupboard you could spend hours looking at all the cereal boxes and comtemplating which one to have , there are so many options.

when you are in a scoail situation there are so many behvaioural options too. all options fit into 2 catagorys though - pro act or react. theres many behavioural reactions and many pro actions e.g to hide your blushing theres many reactions you could choose from like escaping , pretending to use your mobile , pulling your hair infont of your face .

now the reason the human mind has the habit mode built inside it that if it didnt we could literally waste our lives spending hours making decisions. when a normal person enters a social situation there mind automatically picks one route (out of many routes ) and goes with that. its the same with social phobics too, their mind automatically goes down one root too, unfortunatley its the reaction root

you have to pick which behaviour you want . and then you have to go into the social situation and resist the urge to act the old way , and you then have to force yourself to act int he new way . you do this repetetively , you do it every single day and in the end when you enter a social situation your mind will automatically just pick that behaviour and you will instintively just do it without even thinking abar it , it will be like walking , you could do it with your eyes closed

here's an example. everday david goes to the work canteen for dinner and when he always notices a group of his peers sitting together talking and he always gets this sudden rush of anxiety and this feeling that he is not welcome to sit with them . now david has many options he could react by just leaving all together or going and sitting in the corner to hide or he could sit down and read a newspaper to hide his anxiety , or he could proact by just going and sitting with other people , or by walking past and opening his body language to them and smiling .

david has many many options int his situation but he never justs stands there and spends time weighing up all of his options (cos like i sed the mind doesnt work like that cos if it did he would waste his life making decisions). instead he just automatically , without even thinking (its like robotic behaviour ) he puts on this cold , snobby face and acts all cool and pretends that he didnt notice his peers, and he goes off and sits on his own.

after it he beats himselve up saying ''why did i do that , i didnt even mean to do it , it just happend''

now david decides that he would like to pick , out of the many , many options , the behaviour of opening his body language to his peers and smiling and lloking open to their company.

so the next monday david goes to the canteen , he see's his peers and he trys to act out his new behaviour but then this voice in his head says ''no you cant do that , you'll look goofy if you smile , and they will reject you if you try and open yourself to them''. david half gives in to this voice and finds himselve doing what he always does and walking past them and ignoring them, but half way there he forces himselve to look at them and smile , if feels really awakward

the next day he goes back and again he has to force himselve to do it and it feels awakard. this continues for weeks until its starts feeling confy . and eventually he enjoys it and it just happens automatically . he has master it . every time he walks into the canteen he automatcially opens his body language to the group looks open to them and smiles. its so automatic now that he can be talking on his mobile and still smile at them without even realizing he is doing it .

the key to do doing this is -

*you want to be in the right state whilst doing it. if you feel anxious you'll just react. but if you put yourself in the right state then you have a chance of doing it.
you put yourself int he right sate by using an nlp technique called anchoring , and also you fix your physiology to how it would be if you already felt good

*you have the right thoughts in your head . e.g before hand you use cbt to examine this situation. you might think that if you smile then all sorts of conseguences might happen like they will reject you etc.... . if you dont examine this with cbt you will just react. but if you use cbt to make you realize that them rejecting you is silly then when you go into the situation you can have the right thoughts like ''o the chances of them rejecting me is very slim , i wouldnt be that mean to someone , and anyway if they did then who cares ''

*you have your unconcious mind on board. a person suffers social anxiety cos their mind filters the event through their unconcious memories and beleifs. if the unconcious is filtering the event anxiously then it doesnt mater if you conciously try and have the right thoughts or the right state .
you get your unconcious on board by using unconcious programming like nlp, hypnosis, thinkrightnow

*you mentally and physcially rehearse the new behaviour. practice at home infront of the mirror. and also imaginge doing it. the unconcious mind doesnt know the difference between a real or imagined experience. so if you imagine doing it your unconcious thinks you actaully did it

*plan what you want ot do. pick one behaviour you want to work on. decide exactly how you want to change it .

so basically the unconcious programming will mean that when you get to the canteen you will not be in the normal panic mode that the social phobic is usually in. instead of being in panic mode were it seems that you're only option is to react you will now be in neutral were you realize you have a choice (making the right choice will still be hard cos its new and uncomfortable but at least it will be possible. without the unconcious programming its not even possible )
then you will have the chance to change your physiology to a good confident one , and you will be able to think clearly and use the cbt thoughts that you prepared earlier .
then becasue of these thoughts and the good feelings you will be able to carry out your new behaviour (again you will still have to force yourself cos its new and unconfy but becasue you have these thoughts in your head and cos your posture is good and you feel good you will have a very good chance of being able to do the behvaiour ).
then once youve physically done it , it will start getting easier , and every time you imagine it , it will get easier too cos thats like just doing it physically anyway .

in the end you will just get to the situation and automatically your posture will be good, your feelings will be good and those thoughts will be in your head (and you wont even realzie it cos it'll all happen in a milisecond ) and you will just do the behvaiour. it will be like walking , you wont even be aware that you are doing it .

then once youve mastered being open to people you can move onto a new behaviour . maybe like starting a conversation .

you just keep working on a behaviour at a time and in the end youve mastered every single one and you are now an automatcially normal functioning human being like everyone else
  #23  
Old 22nd November 2009, 19:40
teal teal is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

I've had two experiences of being 'proactive' in the last week, which would never have happened previously. And I agree that this is the key to having more fulfilling and less stressful social interactions with other people.

If the cbt route works for you, that's really wonderful and I am so pleased for you.

For me, it's not as straightforward. The cbt approach is not helpful for me in this regard, because what I am aiming for is that split-second appropriate decision. Cbt gives me lots of possiblitlies to think through, and by the time I have done that the moment is gone. Even though the example you give is for a repeated situation, the appropriate response might differ depending on the mood of the people at the table on any given day. Life is about dealing with unexpected situations and, for me, rehearsing it is counterproductive. If I engage my rational mind to pick an appropriate response I am too slow and appear false, or I might fix on a strategy after much thought, only to find that in reality it is inappropriate.

The two instances I refer to at the beginning of this post really surprised me. I realise I reacted differently because the internal narrative I tell myself about me has changed and become more positive with regard to a couple of issues. This has coincided with me beginning person centred therapy, so I suppose that is what did it.

My secret revelation of the week would probably be: People are likely to behave towards you in the way you expect them to. You can't change other people, so work on your expectation.

Last edited by teal; 22nd November 2009 at 20:01. Reason: grammar!
  #24  
Old 22nd November 2009, 22:14
MichaelWilliams MichaelWilliams is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

From my experience - and I have gone from the most awkward science geek to hooking up with the hottest girls in my town - I can say that the road is to take one small step at a time.

Start talking to strangers gradually. Start by asking what time is it. Then, ask for directions. Slowly begin starting conversations. I liked talking to women but was very afraid of it. I slowly began to talk until I could go and approach them directly without any fear. Each little success - a woman smiling at me, kissing me - has made me more confident, until my anxiety was broken.

It was not easy. At the beginning I was physically shaking, but at the end you figure out that it is all in your head, and that the fear is not rational.
  #25  
Old 22nd November 2009, 23:06
Optimistic Optimistic is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWilliams
From my experience - and I have gone from the most awkward science geek to hooking up with the hottest girls in my town - I can say that the road is to take one small step at a time.

Start talking to strangers gradually. Start by asking what time is it. Then, ask for directions. Slowly begin starting conversations. I liked talking to women but was very afraid of it. I slowly began to talk until I could go and approach them directly without any fear. Each little success - a woman smiling at me, kissing me - has made me more confident, until my anxiety was broken.

It was not easy. At the beginning I was physically shaking, but at the end you figure out that it is all in your head, and that the fear is not rational.
Behavioural therapy is not enough for everyone, which is what you're talking about. I tried it (before I knew SA) going up to strangers and increasing the conversation bit by bit but, after months, my anxiety was even higher and I was worse of then before.

This was mainy because I worked no what I 'needed' to do to get 'better' rather than accepting and liking who I am as a person.

That's why cognitive behavioural therapy is the most effective therapy shown by sciencific studies (I am not saying other therapies aren't effective but they haven't had as many scientific studies on them).

Saying this I do like benney's, which include cbt/anchoring(although it was a technique long before NLP)/visulisation/experiment with behaviour.
  #26  
Old 23rd November 2009, 00:54
Nikkos Nikkos is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

I like your idea maybe you are correct but breaking the cycle is the problem we cant just break it not that easy if it was no one would have SA.
  #27  
Old 23rd November 2009, 01:24
Optimistic Optimistic is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkos
I like your idea maybe you are correct but breaking the cycle is the problem we cant just break it not that easy if it was no one would have SA.
Very true.
  #28  
Old 23rd November 2009, 10:23
hardy hardy is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

but so much advice is based on " if you have the confidence you'd be able to do what others do naturally" . What about all that stuff youve no idea what to do ?? Trying to make a split second decision is hard enough at the time but what about those situations when later youre at home thinking about it afterwards and still cant come up with how you should have behaved.?
  #29  
Old 23rd November 2009, 11:09
Optimistic Optimistic is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardy
but so much advice is based on " if you have the confidence you'd be able to do what others do naturally" . What about all that stuff youve no idea what to do ?? Trying to make a split second decision is hard enough at the time but what about those situations when later youre at home thinking about it afterwards and still cant come up with how you should have behaved.?
I understand about the type of thing you mean in trying to find the "right" answer on how you should have behaved.

But nearly all the time there isn't just one "right" answer and, even if there is, its perfectly acceptable not to know the answer. Its unrealistic to expect anyone to know the answers (if they even exist) to every social situation and if there was a right answer then everyone would be the same.

For example, my girlfriend is an introvert. She doesn't get anxiety from most social situations but she does prefer time to herself. Even if people said she has the "wrong" answer in a few situations she doesn't care as they are her answers.

The point I'm trying to get at is that it is often our belief that we need to answer in a specific way which is our main problem. I guess it depends on the actual situation though.
  #30  
Old 23rd November 2009, 16:16
hardy hardy is offline
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Default Re: how to beat SA

No. i think people think that you want a "right answer " like a "script" that would work every time . I mean a typical scenario .
As a complete novice you cant work it out from films or novels as they are unrealistic and only snapshots . You cant observe real people because you dont know what the previous relationship of the "actors" is - do they know each other , well slightly or not at all. Often "socialising is in a deliberately noisy environment so you cant hear typical scripts any way.

I know there is actually no "right" way but people by nature like to pretend there is! If that was not so noone would ever get teased or critcised for their behaviour!. In real life people are always moaning about others actions.

You cant work out by logic because for example I know that the answer to "how are you?" is not something like " I had a hard day ., I was late , the computer failed" . Thats a direct answer that will kill a conversation before it starts!
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