It's not me. It's science.

[misha]

Feeling slightly light-headed after a phone call to the Samartians, which I ended when I thought the guy on the other end was starting to sound bored. Not his fault he was volunteering help and support, and I can be over-sensitive and will always leave early rather than face rejection.

I started to Google browse and went through a chain of articles that just felt like a heavy blanket of black fog lifting.

I read about a "Pit of despair" device used to do horrible psychological experiments on monkeys. Taking bonded monkeys from their mothers and placing them in a metal cell and leaving them there. It breaks them, they get depressed. The conclusion for humans - isolation causes depression. Depression leads to isolation. etc They/We stop trying to help ourselves after a while (lifetime?) We are supposed to be social animals.

Next was types of depression... social, atypical, melancholic, psychotic.
Conclusions, drugs can help, talking to people can help. Different drugs help different types. Different types of talking helps different groups of symptoms. Doing stuff helped. Doing nothing generally didn't. It's not personal, it's scientific.

ONS says Mixed anxiety and depression affects about 9% of 65m people. Least likely to recover quickly are those who are poor, unemployed, long-term sick. (People without support, activities to do, meaning, company?)

I suddenly had a blinding flash moment - it's not me, it's fecking science: These symptoms/behaviours can be 'artificially' created or stimulated in me or anyone else ("a loving childhood is no defense" - from the monkey study conclusions). They can be cured with enough of the right stuff. I'm not alone if literally millions of other people in the country and around the world are suffering in the same way, albeit to different degrees.

I am ok. I've created a narrative that blames and shames me into feeling responsible for stuff. It suddenly seems as crazy as blaming a 9 year old girl for developing asthma and for not being able to cure herself.

This is not who I am, it's what I've done in response to specific triggers. Scientifically I'm a very normal case. This happened, this didn't - what would we expect to see? Me. I'm going to work on changing the variables, a lot.

[RobbyBobson]

Originally Posted by misha

I am ok. I've created a narrative that blames and shames me into feeling responsible for stuff. It suddenly seems as crazy as blaming a 9 year old girl for developing asthma and for not being able to cure herself.

Whilst i admire that you're finding positivity from this way of looking at things, i'd say it's dangerous to too strictly compare mental and physical illness.

If you break your leg, you plaster it up or whatever, it heals over time. But mental conditions are far more flexible and porous; you cannot cut the depression or the schizophrenia or whatever out of somebody's head, you can't 'cure' it -and even if you could, you would be fundamentally changing them as a person in a way that would be on very morally shaky ground.

Obviously we all see things in different ways, and undoubtedly my viewpoint is holding me back in many ways (i don't want to go back on meds because i feel like that's 'cheating', like it wouldn't actually be me who was getting anywhere), but if you're inviting opinions then mine would be that it's more important to accept your problems as part of you rather than detach yourself from them. It's not about blame, but about accepting who you are.

[misha]

Originally Posted by RobbyBobson

Whilst i admire that you're finding positivity from this way of looking at things, i'd say it's dangerous to too strictly compare mental and physical illness.

If you break your leg, you plaster it up or whatever, it heals over time. But mental conditions are far more flexible and porous; you cannot cut the depression or the schizophrenia or whatever out of somebody's head, you can't 'cure' it -and even if you could, you would be fundamentally changing them as a person in a way that would be on very morally shaky ground.

Obviously we all see things in different ways, and undoubtedly my viewpoint is holding me back in many ways (i don't want to go back on meds because i feel like that's 'cheating', like it wouldn't actually be me who was getting anywhere), but if you're inviting opinions then mine would be that it's more important to accept your problems as part of you rather than detach yourself from them. It's not about blame, but about accepting who you are.

Thanks, RobbyBobson. I don't mind differing views at all. I recognise a lot of what you said. I also felt that drugs were cheating, I wouldn't get help for years in the early days, cos I felt I'd rather be a pained and f*cked up version of a real me, than a lobotomised, tranquilised Stepford Wife.

I've had this anxious AvPD Depression for decades now and it feels liberating for me to let go of the blame and shame of my deficient-self version. Last week there was an article linked from here about the importance of 'doing' stuff to improve self-image and social interactions. That struck a chord with me too. I think, for me, I'm sick and tired of sitting around willing myself to better by sheer force of character, that then turns out to be not good enough because I don't recover.

Right now I'm feeling like just another chemically enhanced meatbag! Surprisingly good, and like I have finally found some common ground for a real connection to the rest of humanity.

[RobbyBobson]

Originally Posted by misha

Right now I'm feeling like just another chemically enhanced meatbag! Surprisingly good, and like I have finally found some common ground for a real connection to the rest of humanity.

Well, then that can only be a good thing. Perhaps you're having a realisation that i'm overdue for

[misha]

Who knows?! Fingers crossed for both of us

[AxelFendersson]

You're dead right, misha. Thinking of anxiety and depression as some sort of character flaws that we are to blame for is not only wrong, it's a useless and damaging way to approach the subject. One way or another, our brains have been given the wrong inputs for long enough that they've started giving the wrong outputs. Maybe the cause of that is entirely down to circumstances external to us, or maybe choices we made have contributed. Either way it is not our fault; we made the wrong choices unwittingly and had we known then we would have chosen otherwise.

Once we accept that our problems have a cause, that they aren't just flaws in ourselves, then we can stop beating ourselves up about them and do something useful about them instead. That doesn't have to mean completely reprogramming our personalities. It doesn't necessarily mean medication, although that can be a useful part of the process for some. It means identifying what we are doing wrong, what are the wrong inputs our brains are getting, and changing them so that we can live happier lives.

[Mina]

Wow, interesting post Misha! I like it it's given me quite a lot to think about.

I suppose it's along the same lines as recognising we are not to blame for the causes of our anxiety but are responsible, at least partly, for getting out of it.

I am also trying to help myself these days. Hope we both succeed

[misha]

@AxelFendersson - "Once we accept that our problems have a cause, that they aren't just flaws in ourselves, then we can stop beating ourselves up about them and do something useful about them instead" That's exactly how I feel

and @Mina - "I am also trying to help myself these days. Hope we both succeed"


It's been quite an emotional day, spent most of it at work reading about atypical depression and its overlap with SA and AvPD. Causes, treatments etc.
Bought some Chromium Picolinate supplement from H&B on the way home as that's reported to be effective for my set of symptoms. Made some menu lists for nutrients that might help.
Worked on the assumption that I'm ok and my behaviours and feelings are in response to my dissatisfaction with the way my life is at the moment, and having burnt chunks of my brain out obsessing over my deficiencies. So made a list of all the diff bits of my life and gave them scores out of 10. Then tried to list ways of improving some of the scores in some areas - a bit at a time.

Strangely, I had no trouble with procrastination or with focusing on what I was doing. I was hooked in. Felt anger / rage that I'd made myself the only factor in my recovery for so long, and with various health professionals for not once pointing out to me any of the research literature that it took me an hour to find this morning.

Still gonna be a process, but it feels like I'm on my side now. Instead of fighting myself. I even made someone wait for me till I finished eating my sandwich cos "I need to eat", I didn't put them first automatically.

I think I'm gfoing to sleep soon, feeling exhausted. but ok I really hope it's a proper breakthrough and it lasts.

[Mina]

Sounds like you had a very productive day and well done for sticking up for yourself too.

I've been thinking of doing a life audit too. Is it a bit scary though, realising which areas of your life need working on? (I am assuming almost very part of my life will need work put into it, especially friendship and finances).

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by misha

This is not who I am, it's what I've done in response to specific triggers. Scientifically I'm a very normal case. This happened, this didn't - what would we expect to see? Me. I'm going to work on changing the variables, a lot.

I completely agree and I think that your intention to focus on changing the 'variable's' that affected you is a very positive and I hope successful step towards improvement. It's a much better way to look at things imho.

[Duke of Prunes]

Originally Posted by RobbyBobson

Whilst i admire that you're finding positivity from this way of looking at things, i'd say it's dangerous to too strictly compare mental and physical illness.

If you break your leg, you plaster it up or whatever, it heals over time. But mental conditions are far more flexible and porous; you cannot cut the depression or the schizophrenia or whatever out of somebody's head, you can't 'cure' it -and even if you could, you would be fundamentally changing them as a person in a way that would be on very morally shaky ground.

Obviously we all see things in different ways, and undoubtedly my viewpoint is holding me back in many ways (i don't want to go back on meds because i feel like that's 'cheating', like it wouldn't actually be me who was getting anywhere), but if you're inviting opinions then mine would be that it's more important to accept your problems as part of you rather than detach yourself from them. It's not about blame, but about accepting who you are.

But anxiety can be a physical illness, as it can be caused by neurological problems.

[Mina]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Too bad if "the right stuff" is out of your reach or price range.

Yes, I agree. I've often thought that if I could afford therapy, hypnosis or to not ever have to go to work ever again I wouldn't have stayed anxious for so long.

I've tried CBT workbooks you do at home. Maybe I am not as motivated as Misha, cause it didn't work for me.

Oh well, I'll get to the top of that NHS waiting list eventually

[misha]

Originally Posted by Mina

Sounds like you had a very productive day and well done for sticking up for yourself too.

I've been thinking of doing a life audit too. Is it a bit scary though, realising which areas of your life need working on? (I am assuming almost very part of my life will need work put into it, especially friendship and finances).

Thanks. Wonder if you're doing your life audit? That's what I'm doing today - dividing everything up into small categories and scoring them out of ten!! Not everything is hideous ha ha. Overall average score 3.5 so some things really are appalling! Now I'm writing out ways of improving bits of those small categories and will start working on them bit by bit.

The stuff I read last week does seem to have changed something in me, and I still have the inevitable fear that it will all dissolve again. But I broke down a few nights ago in relief and a mixture of other emotions and just kept thinking, "I'm free, I made it, I held on, I'm safe now..." and had a really strong powerful feeling as though I'd emerged from a long dark tunnel.

So, for the moment,

[misha]

Originally Posted by diplodocus

I completely agree and I think that your intention to focus on changing the 'variable's' that affected you is a very positive and I hope successful step towards improvement. It's a much better way to look at things imho.

Thanks. So far so good. In the short term, I feel better.

[misha]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Aw fukc me! No wonder being stuck in that Hellhole boys home made me so fkn depressed!


So when you become a total social misfit, is it time to eat a bullet?


No wonder I've had depression for over 25 years!


Too bad if "the right stuff" is out of your reach or price range.


Never mind, we go Dr ATOS to cure us of all our ailments.

I don't know how to respond to your post, I know I won't do it justice. I recognise most of it in me too - childhood trauma, 3 decades of depression and feeling suicidal and emotional isolation. I wish I could offer anything more concrete than empathy.