!Post-election petition to improve mental health treatment!

[black_mamba]

This will be taken to Downing Street after the upcoming election to highlight the currently inadequate state of mental health treatment in the UK to all the parlimentary newbies.

The UK holds a General Election in Spring 2010 and hundreds of new MPs will be elected to Parliament. They must understand what needs to change for people affected by mental illness. Rethink wants the new Government to:

• tackle stigma and discrimination,
• provide better access to services and
• to give fairer treatment to those in the criminal justice system.

This will only happen if enough people show they want a better life for everyone affected by mental illness. Your voice really counts, so please support us.

Why you should sign the damn thing

:hmmm:

Sign it! Sign it!

[Reddix3]

I see they have enough links to the petition signing page but what about links to evidence for all those statistics they claim on there?

[black_mamba]

Their stats look so fake but I know from personal experience and from reading people's experiences on here that this is a worthy cause.

They do their own research so presumably it's based on that.

The stats are not significant in my opinion, I just want to push for change in an area that affects my life.

[Louise 5]

I've just signed it. Around 10,000 more needed though

[G-1]

I thought the stats sounded about right.

Thanks for posting this Mamba. Cake will be bestowed upon you at an undisclosed time and location not of your choosing.

[ponder]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

Their stats look so fake but I know from personal experience and from reading people's experiences on here that this is a worthy cause.

I'm not saying they are fake, because I haven't looked into it. But a "worthy cause" doesn't excuse dishonesty, and I'm a little surprised that you'd support it if you thought this was the case.

[G-1]

Originally Posted by Louise 5

I've just signed it. Around 10,000 more needed though

10,000 in total I think, and only ~4,300 left as I was number 5,721 from what I can gather.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by G-1

I thought the stats sounded about right.

Thanks for posting this Mamba. Cake will be bestowed upon you at an undisclosed time and location not of your choosing.

The stats just seemed quite extreme to me!

Woohoo cake fest!

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by ponder

I'm not saying they are fake, because I haven't looked into it. But a "worthy cause" doesn't excuse dishonesty, and I'm a little surprised that you'd support it if you thought this was the case.

You misunderstood. I think the stats look extreme, hence looking 'fake'. No, a worthy cause does not excuse dishonesty, but being cynical about every stat isn't healthy either.

The stats are not significant in my opinion - what I mean is that I don't care how bad the situation is on the whole, I know the situation is bad FOR ME hence why I signed, and why I think everyone here should sign if they feel the same way.

Only a little surprised?

[G-1]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

The stats just seemed quite extreme to me!

The one about prisoners I'd have thought would be accurate, the number of NHS trusts offering CBT surprised me a little but does kind of fit what I've heard other BDDers/SAers say, and to be honest it's easy to manipulate statistics and everyone does it to further their arguments..... and as this is such a worthy cause and one very close to my heart, then even if they had massaged them a bit it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. If it's good enough for the Govt with their stats it's good enough for me.

[black_mamba]

Come on people stop whinging about the state of mental health stigma and do something about it....



*runs away before she gets slapped*

[cheesehoven]

I won't sign it in its present form since it lumps a lot of things together which are quite separate. It is also vague about what it wants the government to do about these apart from "care".

[black_mamba]

I'm pretty sure the idea is to bring mental health to the newly elected MP's attentions rather than to campaign for specific change.

The more signatures the more stronger the message is: sort out the mental health care in the UK you *******!

[black_mamba]

Eh? What am I missing? What didn't you agree with?

Am I being conned without knowing it or are you lot just very cynical?

[Optimistic]

You said earlier that the stats looked fake. I'm no saying they are or aren't though but if you feel that way you then you can understand where others are coming from.

The reason I haven't yet put my name down is that a huge load of people have an area important to them and want the government to fund it. But getting stuff for one thing means something else loses out. There's a whackin great big deficit. I'd like to know what loses out and if someone says that 'magic' the money by cutting waste I think I'll explode

Edit: Meh. Signed anyway. Need more public awareness in any form.

[black_mamba]

Whenever anyone says 90% of people this, or 99% of people that I get suspicious, and since they haven't cited their sources I do understand some cynism yes.

BUT...

This petition was about raising awareness from goverment, it's not about money (not that I know of). And even if it was about money, surely most people on here would rate mental health as one of their priorities?

I really don't understand people on here anymore.

Shit don't get done if you're cynical all the time.

[black_mamba]

Me too, I don't understand.

[Optimistic]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

Me too, I don't understand.

Because we all have our different views... I think many of us explained our opinions and it has nothing to do wih being cynical. And the only way for them to make it a bigger priority is if they allocate resources or money. The government doesn't have a infinite amount to spend, especially when the interest on our borrowing has got to ridiculous levels.

On a personal level, I would like them to cure SA but not if meant other people were suffering from some other illness.

Personal I think more action should come from the people affected (including me). Not the government.

[black_mamba]

I emailed them asking them to clarify their goals and cite the reference for the stats, so we shall see.

Re: money, if you feel mental health needs more attention, then surely it's worth it? Unless you are happy with the treatment you've recieved so far in which case you are in the minority, lucky bugger.

[Optimistic]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

I emailed them asking them to clarify their goals and cite the reference for the stats, so we shall see.

Personally I don't disagree with stats especially if they include addiction as a form of mental illness.

Re: money, if you feel mental health needs more attention, then surely it's worth it? Unless you are happy with the treatment you've recieved so far in which case you are in the minority, lucky bugger.

These two points aren't linked. No I'm not happy with the treatment I received, especially regarding diagnosis. That does no mean the new government has the money to do something about it. How can I tell if it's worth it when no-one is telling me what is going to be lost?

If a party said they would scrap Trident and increase the money for mental illnesses I might be all for it (depending in details). I another party said they would cut policing numbers or A&E departments to fund it, I'd think it was a pretty bad idea.

The idea that the government has an infinite amount of money isn't true. We are in HUGE debt. When all the main parties are talking about huge cuts, I don't personally feel it's the time to ask for resources.

Saying that I do agree with Lilly in that we should make our voice heard and increase awareness so that when they do have more resources they can do somethig about it. (which is why I signed up as I thought this outweighed the practicalities).

Also I am not saying that things shouldn't be done to create support for SA sufferers. But we can't expect the government to do everything and we should do more of I ourselves. Charity begins at home.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Optimistic

These two points aren't linked. No I'm not happy with the treatment I received, especially regarding diagnosis. That does no mean the new government has the money to do something about it. How can I tell if it's worth it when no-one is telling me what is going to be lost?

Ok I understand what you mean now.

I'm just surprised, is that something that people can even begin to detail at this stage, at a petition stage where the organisation/charity are trying to drum up attention? I mean surely there is an element of trusting the government to slot mental health into it's most appropriate position in the hierarchy of governmental priorities. I've never come across a campaign that says: 'We want to present X with 10,000 signatures to increase funding for Z, and in turn the government will draw money from Y.'

I don't know anything about how government works though so perhaps it's because I'm new it to all that I am missing something, but it just seems like an unreasonable thing to expect to know, certainly at this stage of campaigning.


Response from Rethink so far (my questions have been chopped short, if you're wondering why they don't make much sense).

1. One of the complaints is that the aims of this campaign are not clear

There are two main strands to Rethink’s election campaign. One is to demonstrate the weight of public opinion around mental health (through the petition) and the other is to get Parliamentary Candidates pledging to be mental health champions should they become elected. We are doing this with our Rethink manifesto (attached).

For both strands we are using the same messages around access and Investment, stigma and discrimination, and Criminal Justice. While there are many other issues to consider, these are the three that Rethink, along with members, service users and carers have identified as priority. They also demonstrate the breadth of impact mental illness has on different Government departments, and not just the Department of Health. We have tried to make these three areas prominent and clear across all of our literature – the manifesto, the petition and on the website. While we are not expecting these problems to be solved overnight, we are in a position to be able to offer potential solutions for each, that a future Government could adopt and take on.

They also – we hope - provide good grounds for why someone should sign up to the petition and demand a Government that cares about mental illness. In providing the solutions as we do in the manifesto and the petition, we had hoped to address any cynicism that things couldn’t change. I would certainly be interested in hearing any ideas you have, or feedback from the online community, as to how we address this further.

2. Another issue is that the statistics used in the following page and others:
http://www.rethink.org/how_we_can_he...i_sign_re.html

Thank you for highlighting this. For the webpages, the text needs to be as clear and easy to read as possible, and citations can affect this. However, we always use statistics from credible and reliable sources, and the stats used here are certainly cited elsewhere on our website in the downloadable documents and briefings etc. If there are particular stats you would like references for, then I can out those together for you so that you can feed them back? We could also perhaps provide explanatory sentences before using a statistic, and link to more detailed briefings on the site. I will certainly pass this on.

-------------------------------

I've asked for a little further clarification about the above, all seems very vague^^

[G-1]

Originally Posted by Optimistic

Personally I don't disagree with stats especially if they include addiction as a form of mental illness.



These two points aren't linked. No I'm not happy with the treatment I received, especially regarding diagnosis. That does no mean the new government has the money to do something about it. How can I tell if it's worth it when no-one is telling me what is going to be lost?

If a party said they would scrap Trident and increase the money for mental illnesses I might be all for it (depending in details). I another party said they would cut policing numbers or A&E departments to fund it, I'd think it was a pretty bad idea.

The idea that the government has an infinite amount of money isn't true. We are in HUGE debt. When all the main parties are talking about huge cuts, I don't personally feel it's the time to ask for resources.

Saying that I do agree with Lilly in that we should make our voice heard and increase awareness so that when they do have more resources they can do somethig about it. (which is why I signed up as I thought this outweighed the practicalities).

Also I am not saying that things shouldn't be done to create support for SA sufferers. But we can't expect the government to do everything and we should do more of I ourselves. Charity begins at home.

What you're saying about the deficit makes sense, but I don't understand what the deficit really has to do with this petition, as it's only trying to raise awareness of the fact that something more has to be done in this area. But even if this one petition does somehow miraculously attract major funding, which I doubt it will, and that funding has to come from elsewhere, is that really much of a concern to any of us? For me SA is the biggest thing in my life and I'd love to be able to get the treatment I need, regardless of what gets cut to fund it. I'd be highly surprised if the money couldn't be found by reducing inefficiency as so much of our tax dollars are wasted on utter nonsense, such as management consultants, or ridiculous policies such as paying teenagers not to play truant. And I'd be equally surprised if the money for it came out of frontline services, such as A&E depts. But as Mamba says, you'd never find out where the money was coming from anyway, so is there any need to worry about that?

I apologise in advance if any of what I've written sounds rude in any way, I certainly don't mean it like that, but I'm shocked that anyone with mental health problems who has experienced the system and how poor it is at the moment would be worrying over fairly convoluted "what ifs" when deciding whether or not to help push for awareness about how bad mental health services are at the moment. I'm completely baffled in fact!

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by G-1

I apologise in advance if any of what I've written sounds rude in any way, I certainly don't mean it like that, but I'm shocked that anyone with mental health problems who has experienced the system and how poor it is at the moment would be worrying over fairly convoluted "what ifs" when deciding whether or not to help push for awareness about how bad mental health services are at the moment. I'm completely baffled in fact!

I echo this, I don't mean to sound rude or aggressive (as people on here often complain I come across too aggressive sometimes and that is certainly not my intention here). I just am completely shocked how few people are willing to sign this, unless they are signing it but not mentioning so on the forum.

[blubs]

I've signed it hun x
Think there are a lot of links between society, culture & mental health...can't see why it shouldn't be discussed more openly? It affects alot of us.

[Optimistic]

Originally Posted by 0smile0

are there any actual details in the manifestoes about mental health?

Not that I know of. However, I know Gordon Brown has refrained from calling mental health a front line service (and front line services are the ones that he said will be protected from cuts) but I would be very surprised any of the main three parties would protect mental health when they have made such big (and popular) cuts everywhere else.

This isn't because I personally see it as lesser but because there is not the same public awareness, there is stigma attached to mental illnesses and so people don't hold it in their main priorities.

I personally signed the petition because I want them to hold it as a higher priority but due to the big cuts I don't see the money actually coming in.