This life is pointless

[Gomen]

No matter what you enjoy doing, no matter how much wealth you have everything is pointless.

How do I know everything isn't real and just something my mind made up? It doesn't matter if you guys tried to convince me I'm because that's exactly what you would try to do in my mind.

Why do people at my work act like they are having such a ball? And then after work they probably all hang out and still act the same. But are they really that person deep down when they are alone?

Is it an act? Because they are instilled from birth that they are suppose to enjoy being in company of other people?

I went to a doctor and they said I need help and want to send me to a psychologist. But is it me they care about or deep down do they see another way to add to there pockets?

[Utopia]

Hmmm... well to a certain extend it can be good to be positive as it kind of says to others that it's ok to be as well, but yeh for some people it can be.

This idea about psycologists just being concerned with using you for money is a real worry, I guess it's a risk you might still want to take however. Try not to generalise too much, as deep down some people are bad and others are good -- regardless of background. I know if in another life I was a psycologist I would sympathise for sure.

[Clementine]

Life is pointless. Some of us find that fact very difficult to deal with whilst others don’t care.
It can be a freeing realisation too though, if you have one life and no predetermined destiny to fulfill then you’re free to do whatever the hell you want with it, in theory. It also means that you can’t ‘fail’.

You have to find your own purpose and meaning if that’s what you want from your life. If life needs to have a point to it in order to be meaningful then it’s on you to find that point and to live life with it in your mind. Find what matters to you. It’s a good thing, I think

[alpha]

I've gone through periods of my life where I felt like I had a true purpose, probably for completely different reasons at different times and other periods where I've felt like I had no purpose, including right now. From a philosophical point of view, you are kind of right, life is ultimately pointless because we all end up in the same position at the end of it. I've sat there and looked at it like that many a time. I have to say though, it's quite an individualistic way of looking at it. For instance being able to help someone else in their life or being able to sustain or improve society in some way are not pointless things.

I've also done the "what if life is just a dream" thing, there's no way of disproving that. But there's also no way of disproving the existence of unicorns.

To be honest I've only tended to get the above types of thoughts and dwelled on them when I've been depressed. Depressive brain chemistry can do strange things and it's weird how we can look at our lives in a totally different way in depressed and non-depressed states.

Generally speaking I think people do genuinely enjoy other's company and dislike being alone. But if you feel extremely socially anxious, it can be difficult or impossible to enjoy it, that's my experience anyway.

Some doctors are in it for the money, some genuinely want to help, again my experience and opinion.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Aelwyn]

I don't know what your psychologist's motivation will be, everybody is different, I've met some unpleasant people and some very generous and altruistic people in the health system. But you wouldn't be on this site if you didn't think you had a problem with anxiety,so why not take your doctor's advice and see how things go? You can always change your doctor and your psychologist if you want to.

Originally Posted by Gomen

But is it me they care about or deep down do they see another way to add to there pockets?

Well the people that run online gambling certainly see things that way.

[Mr. Nobody]

I think it's a blessing that life seems essentially pointless,
As I'm sure I'd miss the point spectacularly knowing me,
And probably move in the opposite direction just to be different,
I think there's way too many different amazing avenues you can go down in life for it just to have one single point.
But yeah, there probably is a point tho' and I've totally missed it

[Hayman]

I'm not sure if there is actually a point to life. There certainly isn't to mine where it seems my job is to 'exist' and pay bills. Very little else actually happens – and it certainly isn't through a lack of trying by in most as I'll explain below. I'm trying to search for a point behind it all, but I just seem to be taking wild stabs into the darkness, as such. Other people have tools provided such as headlights and compasses (others have sat-nav from a very early age) and it's tiresome to be mocked for a distinct lack of progress by these people, told I need to 'do more' e.t.c. when I've not been given the same tools to work with in the first place. I've spent years of my life fruitlessly trying to explain this latter point, obviously in various different ways, to no avail.

I have multiple issues with work colleagues and 18 months ago I recorded a series of vlogs about the issues I deal with – including first hand evidence. I tend to find most 'regular' people (sorry to use that term but I’m sure you know where I'm coming from) in work lead double-lives. They have their work life, go home, find a second ‘wave’ of energy and then lead another one at home. I don't have that energy! I go to work, come home and basically collapse with exhaustion. I tend to spend most of the weekend recovering from it all and by the time I feel I’m regained enough energy to actually enjoy the weekend – it's already well into Sunday afternoon…

I usually get some very conflicting information. I try to do things that I enjoy, but I find others attempt to put up 'brick walls' between myself and what I enjoy or I find them highly critical. For instance if I make suggestions to go out somewhere, I'll be turned down or there will be an excuse as to why my choice isn't well thought out or good enough. It happened to me again only yesterday when I offered to take someone out for a pint... Yet, the same people will go on at some point in the future and claim that I don't make any effort or do things to help myself. It's like they're playing a game with you, but you always end up on the losing side. With regards to being highly critical, I carry out my hobbies and I get told I'm boring, dull, sad e.t.c… In turn, that puts me off doing my hobbies so I don’t have to face further criticism and jokes at my expense. So, I really don't know what they want me to do. Sit back and do nothing to face criticism (most of it rather one-sided under the circumstances as explained), or do what I enjoy and also face criticism. All I want is a simple, straight answer.

As I've said in the past, from my own experiences, I feel I've taken more positive steps alone by forcing myself to do things under my own terms (I know how and when to push myself) than I have seeing any medical professional – whether it being several different doctors or CBT. I admit my experiences are somewhat limited compared to others here, but I cannot think of many, if any, positives I've had from the medical professionals. I feel as though I was treated as a number, rather than a person. If I didn't explain myself in the way that their textbooks say we should and if I've failed at the suggestions the textbooks say, they're genuinely lost. Rather than trying to see your argument and understanding it from the perspective of the patient, they'll choose the easy route – blame you for everything regardless (then wonder why you lack confidence and motivation) and merely repeat the same old suggestions that you've already tried. Talk about going around in circles! I found myself under considerably more frustration seeking professional help, which turned out to simply be hindrance, than I did (and have) without…

I really wish there was a point in life for us all… I doubt many of us would be here right now if we had some points to follow! I'd be out there perusing them, moving forward in life, rather than wanting to talk about my problems.

[Clementine]

I always seem to end up turning to the words of Carl Sagan when I’m having these sort of existential crises.

”...We long to be here for a purpose. Even though, despite much self-deception, none is evident. The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for parents to care for us, to forgive us of our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better, by far, to embrace the harsh reality than a reassuring fable.

Modern science has been a voyage into the unknown, with a lesson in humility waiting at every stop. Our common sense intuitions can be mistaken. Our preferences don't count. We do not live in a privileged reference frame. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.”

[lone*star]

If you say that 'life is pointless' then, if you're being completely honest with yourself, you also surely have to ask yourself, who is the one to whom life is pointless? In other words, we're not in a position to say that life is pointless in any true, objective, absolute sense. 'Pointlessness' is a subjective term, and therefore there has to be a subject (an observer) who is making that subjective assessment. So if someone says that 'life is pointless', what they really mean is, "My life seems pointless".

And of course, if you're someone who's not naturally very well adjusted to the prevailing society, and therefore not achieving much 'success' in life (as it is perceived within that society) then it's obvious that you're always going to be at risk of feeling that way because of outward circumstances. We're not all born equal - life has never been 'fair' in that respect. So what is the answer? Is there anything we can do to improve the situation for ourselves and therefore our outlook on life also?

I've spent years looking into this very subject (it's something that seems to come naturally to me) and what I've found is that life, as we know it, is basically a dream. And that we're each playing the role of one of the characters in the dream. Now if you're happy playing your particular character, and life seems pretty good as it is, then there's no need to worry - just carry on as you are, enjoying it. But if you're not happy about things, and life is not going the way you want, then clearly there's a problem somewhere.

But rather than just keep complaining about the situation, why not look into it and see if you can find the root cause of it? Then you might find that there's something you can do to improve things for yourself. Of course, being merely a character in a dream, there's probably not much you can do to improve things, realistically, on that level. The real power to alter the course of the dream lies with the dreamer itself. But here's the good news: You are the dreamer! You've been so involved, all this time, dreaming yourself to be just a particular character in the dream and yet, all along, you've been forgetting your true position as the dreamer itself.

Now you might say, "Yeah, but even so, isn't having a dream about life still pretty pointless?" Well, it depends how you see it I guess. On the one hand, you could say that having a dream is pointless because it's not real; but on the other hand, dreams can sometimes teach us things about ourselves that we might not otherwise know, so they can be useful in that respect. And let's face it, this is no ordinary dream either - this is the big one, the main one, the dream of all dreams ffs! What more do you want?

And when you realise the situation you find yourself in - both as the dream character and as the dreamer itself - then everything changes; you suddenly stop seeing things from such a limited and narrow perspective. You're now seeing everything from a much broader and spectacular viewpoint - as it really is, rather than seeing it from the limitations of an individual person. This bigger picture enables you to appreciate life from so many different angles - all angles in fact - you see the sheer awesomeness of it - the wonder, the beauty, the struggles, the pain, the tragedy, the compassion, the hope, the love, the reality.

And from that viewpoint, any idea that life should 'have a point' to it simply never even arises.

[Hayman]

The 'life is a dream' concept is very interesting indeed. I can see how that can crop up in real life in more ways than one…

There can be a point to life if that point is there for you, or to reach out to… Imagine it to being the universe. Before the 'big bang' there was nothing. For me, I'm still waiting for that event to create those chances and no matter how much you try – multiply any figure (the efforts) by zero – you'll still end up with zero. So whilst others see a point in life as they've already had that 'big bang' happen (so efforts will be rewarded), there's another group of people still waiting for the basic 'big bang' to create those same opportunities. Sadly, it never does for some…

There shouldn't be any 'blame' held against that person because as we've already established – life isn't fair. So, I find it a bit rich for those who have opportunities (past or present) to criticise those who haven't had the same privileges along the way… To create success, as society perceives, you need the same chances to happen. Sure, you can take steps to improve yourself to aid this and I'm sure many here have done what they can…but if those chances still aren't materialising? Where do you go from there? This is the whole point. Effort doesn't always equal reward as most will accept. So, where do you go if you're making the same efforts, but the same things aren’t happening?! We need to stop this 'blame game' on these people and listen to what they're saying, rather than having basic (and often false) presumptions that they're not doing anything.

Originally Posted by john smith

There's hell then death. That's the meaning of life.

I wouldn't say it's quite as bad as that, but I certainly see where you're coming from!

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Hayman

The 'life is a dream' concept is very interesting indeed.

Yes, it's only a concept of course, as you rightly say. It's just the closest I can get (after, as I said, years of looking into the subject) to describing the overall situation we find ourselves in.

But as for the rest of your post (above) - if you relate it to what I'm saying, then you are currently [at least effectively] simply a dream character, complaining about a lack of personal opportunities for yourself, living in this dream world of ours. And, as I said, there's probably not much you can do realistically, to improve your individual situation on that level (ie. from within the dream itself).

The most realistic answer therefore is to transcend your current position/viewpoint as the dream character, by realising your true position as the dreamer itself. Why?
Because that is where the true power lies. By complaining about life as merely a dream character, you're basically just going round in circles.

[Utopia]

Originally Posted by Clementine

I always seem to end up turning to the words of Carl Sagan when I***8217;m having these sort of existential crises.

Well when people ask what is the meaning of life? Isn't it obvious, is it not what you want for yourselves? Do we not make our own meanings of our own lives, are we not meaningful to others in our lives?

Life is to be enjoyed, although it may well be hard, the goal is to enjoy it while it lasts and then pass this on; the preservation of life is the meaning.

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by jinny

^I can't wait to transcend my life to it's dream state & everything just does it's ****ing self.

Hi Jinny and thanks for the response! I'm not sure you quite understood what I'm saying though, because what you just stated above doesn't seem to correspond with it - I guess you kind of put your own spin on it, but not to worry.

For me, I believe in biology & so the most meaning I have in life is being a mum & before that it was probably eating, sleeping, sex...I think the closer you get to fulfilling biological needs the simpler & more fulfilling life is.
I don't know if you've ever heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Physiological needs come right at the bottom & as they're met, then there are needs of safety, then belonging, then esteem, then self-actualisation.

For me, the closer you are to the bottom level & the more your physiological needs are met, the happier. I feel rotten atm because my back problems are stopping me from indulging in the normal routine of exercise & then food which gives me a sense of wellbeing. There is a lot more to aspire to I'm sure, but in terms of wellbeing, life should be simple and as close to our biological needs as possible. In fact a recent study showed that sleep and sex makes us happy. Two things a lot of us here struggle to get!

I don't disagree with anything you've said there and, believe it or not, none of it is at odds with anything I wrote previously in this thread either. But is that what most people are doing nowadays - just being happy through fulfilling their basic physiological needs? No, it's clearly not - most people today are far more ambitious and demanding than that in life. As a result, modern life has become complicated, mechanised/computerised, fast paced, ultra competitive, self-serving, inconsiderate, stressful and generally draining. And worryingly, things seem to be heading increasingly in that direction.

I think many people are aware that something doesn't feel right about it, but no one is quite sure what to do about it. Being caught up in this 'story' of human society and its relentless 'progress' is what I'm referring to as the 'dream world' that we're all living in. The only remedy, as far as I can see, is for people to awaken to what is really going on, by clearly seeing the bigger picture. And that clear seeing/understanding is the starting point for the 'transcendence' I mentioned - from being merely a character within the dream, to being the 'dreamer' itself - by which I mean the very intelligence/awareness which is impartially holding, creating and watching the dream unfold.

As I said, that is where the real power for positive change lies - not with being merely an individual person caught up in it all.

[Lone Dog]

Originally Posted by Gomen

Is it an act? Because they are instilled from birth that they are suppose to enjoy being in company of other people?

I don't think you are taught to enjoy the company of others, perhaps it's normal that you are born like that, and if we don't then maybe we are the exception, and the abnormal one.

As for the purpose of life? I don't know if there is one - perpetuate the species, procreate? As for point, or meaning, there isn't one. If you need such a thing, find your own.

In the meantime, I'm here and I'm making the best (or least worst) of it.

[shinetaro]

Originally Posted by Gomen

No matter what you enjoy doing, no matter how much wealth you have everything is pointless.



How do I know everything isn't real and just something my mind made up? It doesn't matter if you guys tried to convince me I'm because that's exactly what you would try to do in my mind.



Why do people at my work act like they are having such a ball? And then after work they probably all hang out and still act the same. But are they really that person deep down when they are alone?



Is it an act? Because they are instilled from birth that they are suppose to enjoy being in company of other people?



I went to a doctor and they said I need help and want to send me to a psychologist. But is it me they care about or deep down do they see another way to add to there pockets?

I agree, everyone has a motive for everything


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by jinny

I apologise, I have a bad back & it makes me grumpy and the stuff you peddle about everything being a dream just irritates me.
Life is way too tough to be dreaming it.
I just believe in evolution and biology and any intellect we have is just a by-product of how we've evolved. I don't believe in any philosophical theories, or any religions. However, people talking about their own beliefs doesn't usually irritate me so much, or at all really, there's just something in the way you write your beliefs that bugs me can't even tell you what it is! Maybe it's the way you wrap quite simple thoughts up in a lot of language..I don't really know

But I apologise for my annoyed reaction anyways

No need to apologise Jinny - I can see where you're coming from and I fully understand your position. Admittedly, what I've been trying to do, in a way, is the impossible - I've been trying to explain, in as simple terms as I can [which is not difficult, because I'm not a well educated person, unlike many people here] something that can't really be put into words; something that can't really be understood by our limited human minds - it can only be known experientially.

You might say, well in that case, why bother at all if it can't be done? Well, because, in my own experience (which I guess is all we really have at the end of the day - our own experience) this insight/understanding into reality can be approached, at least to begin with, from an intellectual angle. That's not the only angle it can be approached by btw - there are others also - perhaps the most obvious of which is self-sacrifice/devotion to a worthy cause (which, to be fair, many people find more suitable for them personally).

That last sentence should, in itself, provide a clue as to what we're dealing with here (in terms of 'the truth'). It's not a theory. It's not a mathematical formula. It's not a belief. Neither science nor religion - the two most obvious methods that human beings have tended to use to discover the nature of reality - have really provided the answers for us. "The answer" - and this is the crux of what I'm trying to point towards - can ultimately only be your answer. In other words, you're never going to get the truth from anyone else, regardless of how intelligent, confident or well educated they might seem!

So where does that leave your belief in 'evolution and biology', for example? Could it be possible that it merely represents, for you personally, at this moment in time, a convenient and well respected/mainstream excuse 'answer' to life's most fundamental questions/mysteries, which then saves you the trouble of looking into things too deeply yourself? Because, when you think about it, neither evolution or biology (as they are popularly understood at least) 'go all the way' in terms of explaining existence itself. They kind of have their own starting point, if you like, which already makes certain assumptions with regard to what gave rise to their being in the first place.

Whereas what I'm pointing to does attempt to go all the way. I guess, unlike many people it seems, I'm not prepared to simply accept the popular/mainstream ideas and theories about 'the way things are' without at least giving it some serious thought myself first. For me, life is too important to do that. Because, let's face it, if the theories you believe in happen to be wrong - and they're by no means outright certainties (which is why they're called theories) - then everything else you believe in subsequent to that will be wrong also! Your entire life would be based on, and revolve around, false information and beliefs. I find it difficult to believe how anyone who truly values life can accept that position; but maybe that's just me?

Funnily enough, and without wanting to 'irritate' you any further, I'd say that your mysteriously negative reaction to my posts is actually a good thing. Or at least the fact that you can openly admit to finding my posts irritating, without quite being able to put your finger on the reason why! Because what that tells me, is that deep down inside (and probably completely unconscious even) is something in you that recognises the truth in my words. But that on the conscious, personal level, there's another force/energy/factor in you which is somehow very much opposed to the former. Now I would call the latter factor your 'ego' - and I appreciate that the word has all sorts of negative connotations, but please don't take it personally.

Anyway, this is starting to become rather a long post, so I'd better wrap it up here. Merely to say thanks for your openness and honesty during our conversation Jinny - much appreciated. Oh and I hope your back improves soon too!

[neilm]

Originally Posted by lone*star

No need to apologise Jinny - I can see where you're coming from and I fully understand your position. Admittedly, what I've been trying to do, in a way, is the impossible - I've been trying to explain, in as simple terms as I can [which is not difficult, because I'm not a well educated person, unlike many people here] something that can't really be put into words; something that can't really be understood by our limited human minds - it can only be known experientially.

You might say, well in that case, why bother at all if it can't be done? Well, because, in my own experience (which I guess is all we really have at the end of the day - our own experience) this insight/understanding into reality can be approached, at least to begin with, from an intellectual angle. That's not the only angle it can be approached by btw - there are others also - perhaps the most obvious of which is self-sacrifice/devotion to a worthy cause (which, to be fair, many people find more suitable for them personally).

That last sentence should, in itself, provide a clue as to what we're dealing with here (in terms of 'the truth'). It's not a theory. It's not a mathematical formula. It's not a belief. Neither science nor religion - the two most obvious methods that human beings have tended to use to discover the nature of reality - have really provided the answers for us. "The answer" - and this is the crux of what I'm trying to point towards - can ultimately only be your answer. In other words, you're never going to get the truth from anyone else, regardless of how intelligent, confident or well educated they might seem!

So where does that leave your belief in 'evolution and biology', for example? Could it be possible that it merely represents, for you personally, at this moment in time, a convenient and well respected/mainstream excuse 'answer' to life's most fundamental questions/mysteries, which then saves you the trouble of looking into things too deeply yourself? Because, when you think about it, neither evolution or biology (as they are popularly understood at least) 'go all the way' in terms of explaining existence itself. They kind of have their own starting point, if you like, which already makes certain assumptions with regard to what gave rise to their being in the first place.

Whereas what I'm pointing to does attempt to go all the way. I guess, unlike many people it seems, I'm not prepared to simply accept the popular/mainstream ideas and theories about 'the way things are' without at least giving it some serious thought myself first. For me, life is too important to do that. Because, let's face it, if the theories you believe in happen to be wrong - and they're by no means outright certainties (which is why they're called theories) - then everything else you believe in subsequent to that will be wrong also! Your entire life would be based on, and revolve around, false information and beliefs. I find it difficult to believe how anyone who truly values life can accept that position; but maybe that's just me?

Funnily enough, and without wanting to 'irritate' you any further, I'd say that your mysteriously negative reaction to my posts is actually a good thing. Or at least the fact that you can openly admit to finding my posts irritating, without quite being able to put your finger on the reason why! Because what that tells me, is that deep down inside (and probably completely unconscious even) is something in you that recognises the truth in my words. But that on the conscious, personal level, there's another force/energy/factor in you which is somehow very much opposed to the former. Now I would call the latter factor your 'ego' - and I appreciate that the word has all sorts of negative connotations, but please don't take it personally.

Anyway, this is starting to become rather a long post, so I'd better wrap it up here. Merely to say thanks for your openness and honesty during our conversation Jinny - much appreciated. Oh and I hope your back improves soon too!

Whilst, I do not believe that we are living in a dream/simulation I do a enjoy a good book or movie on the subject.

You should read "Phase Space" by Stephen Baxter. Some excellent ideas in there

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by jinny

As I am at a point in life where there's more of it behind me than in front, wasting life by pontificating instead of living it seems sad. But that is my own personal reaction, I think it just shows that I hate getting older and am scared of wasting time. But if pondering life is what you enjoy, then of course it's not a waste to you, so it doesn't matter x

The thing is, there are two (very different) ways of looking at this. Like you, I'm not exactly a youngster any more, but the funny thing is, as I get older, I'm realising increasingly that much of the 'human stuff' in life - the personal hopes, the dreams, the problems, the relationships, the worries, the routines, the running around, the trying desperately to 'be good enough' and 'fit in' etc, might not be all they're cracked up to be after all! That perhaps there's a better, simpler, more intelligent and more peaceful way forward that most people are simply too busy, too caught up in the whole rat race, to have the spare time to even think about.

So I don't see my 'pondering life' as being either sad or a waste of time at all. As far as I'm concerned, I've nothing better or even more worthwhile to be doing. In fact I'd say that rather than it being "me" that's pondering life, rather it's the other way round - that life is pondering itself through me. As I said, a very different way of looking at things! But if what I'm saying is true, then we're all just doing what we have to be doing in life, at this moment in time, in any case. So really, there's no need to worry about anything at all, because life is simply unfolding as it must. Ultimately it's all good. (Or perhaps even all God?)

[Seagull]

Human beings are cursed with a higher intelligence than all other living creatures and can thus see the futility in it. All species essentially exist to procreate, nothing more, and it's finding meaning in your life, giving it purpose that wards off feelings of futility, frustration and linked depression. I've had SA my entire life but have almost never experienced depression or low mood with it, and a big part of that in recent years has been a commitment to writing, a determination that I won't shift off this planet without leaving a legacy, in my case a published novel around social anxiety.

Find your purpose and the battle is half won.

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by jinny

@lone*star, you've been rumbled, your philosophical ruminations are just a ruse so that you can indulge in extreme laziness, well done, good cover.

Nice one Jinny. If only that were true! Unfortunately I have to earn a living like most other people, and work full time (around 50 hours a week) doing a pretty basic job.

At least my way of seeing things however means that, deep down, I realise that it's not really "me" that's doing the work - it's merely life itself doing the job through me - which, believe it or not, I find helps no end.

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by jinny

aw, I'm sorry to hear you have to work, I thought you only existed in a higher state of consciousness.

You could say that life operates on all levels of consciousness and, since I am life itself*, I too therefore exist in all states of consciousness - which of course includes 'being a person' and 'having to work' etc.

I wish I could get through work like that x

You can. We all can. It's just that at the moment, like most people, you're getting yourself in the way of it, and thereby causing suffering, both to yourself and others. Why is that happening? Because currently, your ego - at least from its own perspective - is bigger in your own mind than life itself, and so your world is all out of kilter. Is there a remedy? Yes - simply realise how small and insignificant "you" are, on a personal level, and realise how big and powerful is life itself - which on virtually every level; scientific, religious, spiritual and philosophical [with the possible exception of individual personal perception] is actually the real "you".


* I realise that in terms of everyday common thought, this statement, "I am life itself", is perhaps confusing and even controversial. So if you're interested (and I know you believe in evolution and biology) there's a good [30 minute] video presentation just appeared on Youtube, which helps to explain that statement from a scientific perspective:

[Marco]

Unless I***8217;ve missed something, Lone*star, you***8217;ve yet to explain to us how you***8217;ve managed to transcend this ***8220;dream state***8221;, that the rest of us seem to be locked into, to see the bigger picture. Just how did you find enlightenment ***8211; through meditation or medication perhaps? Btw, your video link isn't working or maybe I'm in the wrong level of consciousness to view it.

I used to like the possibility of the many worlds theory in which our lives might be played out in possibly an infinite number of different ways. There might be some versions of me where I***8217;m actually successful and having a wonderful life and, well, maybe I can take some vicarious pleasure in that***8230;.. if it were true!

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Marco

Unless I’ve missed something, Lone*star, you’ve yet to explain to us how you’ve managed to transcend this “dream state”, that the rest of us seem to be locked into, to see the bigger picture.

Transcending the dream state is seeing the bigger picture - they're the same thing. Of course, someone might have just a temporary awakening or 'glimpse' of it and then revert back into their prevailing dream state. So if reality is something you genuinely want, it's a case of just keep looking and trying. But remember, you're not looking for something physical/tangible that can be perceived through the senses, or even the mind. You come to the truth through a process of negation - you gradually see everything which is not true (kind of a process of elimination) - until the only 'thing' left must therefore be the real.

Just how did you find enlightenment – through meditation or medication perhaps?

I'd say 'enlightenment' is a journey rather than a destination. As long as I'm heading in the right direction, that's good enough for me. I don't personally use any particular 'spiritual techniques', such as formal meditation. But I would say that most of my waking state consciousness could be described as a kind of meditation in itself, in that I'm someone who's very awake, aware and alive, and rarely slip into the dull ignorance of the oh so common dream world.

Btw, your video link isn't working or maybe I'm in the wrong level of consciousness to view it.

Oh, it seems to be working fine for me, but here's the actual URL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQl...&v=1cQlmALw4GE