Flirting in real life: 101

[Everleigh]

Ok so this is pretty embarrassing because at my age this stuff should be second nature by now. But it's not for me, far from it.

But how does 'one' flirt in real life? What is considered flirting? How do you know if someone likes you like that as opposed to they just think you are a nice person. Or if they are just being civil and friendly.

I seem to honestly miss any signals, to the point where I really wonder if I have ever had any signals at all, getting confused and then end up annoyed at myself for making something out of nothing. This happens alot.

I honestly feel I have missed the boat on this stuff. And recently I was in Italy and I thought I was being quite sociable as I was talking to men which for me, is a big deal. But more than one told me how serious I was which was a bit frustrating as for me, that was me being friendly!! I don't smile a lot cos I am soooooooo nervous, even around men I don't like. I didn't realise how much of black cross this was next to my name. The number of men who told me I am serious, I need to smile, I am on holidays etc just made me really stop and think about interaction. So I now know how important smiling is when talking to the opposite sex......apparently its a BIG deal. I really made an effort to be polite and chatty but not smiling was commented on by them alot

I just wanted to ask on here (this board) because
a)There are both men and women on this site Id like to here from both sides if possible
b)There are mixed ages
c)People have different types of SA so maybe those who find dating a little less daunting can help enlighten those of us who are a little less experienced
d) I just need help

thanks in advance ^1000000000000000000

[Phool]

My background...36, female, Indian, dated both asian and english men, 69 on the SA scale i.e. am comfortable in 1-2-1 relationships.

- Italy...forget it, I lived in spain and got the same. Southern europeans just have a stereo type that Brits and Germans are 'serious'
- Cliche but its in the eyes...the way they look at you, especially if they look at your mouth while you are talking.
-some people are naturally flirtatious and flirt with everyone. Be careful not to take these people too seriously.
-Body language such as playing with hair or hands, running fingertip round rim of glass, foot pointing towards you...dead give aways.
-The best thing is laughter...its the most flirtatious thing of all.
-Above all be natural...nothing quite so off putting as phony, fake humour or laughter.

Have fun!

[Mr. Nobody]

Hi Everleigh,..

I'm maybe being a bit sexist here ( against men )
but,..wasn't it their job to maybe MAKE you laugh ?
perhaps give you something to laugh about,..
perhaps help make you feel at ease,..
unless they'd paid money to go and see you as a comedienne,......
they had nothing to complain about.
if they were entertaining, and funny, and chatty, and put you at ease,..
why were they expecting YOU to do all the work ?
I'm wondering if their egos were slighted by you not finding them engaging ???

if you find someone is funny,..puts you at ease,..is naturally comfortable with you,..then, I'm sure the smiles will come, and the laughter will follow,..but it wil be real, and will be natural.

[redsparrow]

A lot of the behaviors anxious people exhibit tend to be self-focused. Anxiety likes to sap your attention of everything outside of you. When you feel anxious you close down, your body language can become defensive or avoidant, like when people commented that you were too serious. How can you be open and fun when you're anxious inside? I don't think this is to do with your being useless at flirting, I think it's this anxious response that closes you off and people can feel that, and they just feed back off the vibes they get from you (At least this is the case with me)

As for "how do you know if someone likes you", well you have to ask them. Well really, there isn't one obvious thing, it's all the little social ques that add up and unless they're ridiculously overt about it (drunk) this is just the risk one has to take when dating / socializing. I have the problem of being overly negative in my estimation of how people respond to me so even good vibes from someone can seem negative, and if that's the case for you maybe you miss those little ques

[Everleigh]

I thought I would reply properly to everyone because you all make some valid points for discussion.

Originally Posted by jerry302199

Hi Everleigh,..

I'm maybe being a bit sexist here ( against men )
but,..wasn't it their job to maybe MAKE you laugh ?
perhaps give you something to laugh about,..
perhaps help make you feel at ease,..
unless they'd paid money to go and see you as a comedienne,......
they had nothing to complain about.
if they were entertaining, and funny, and chatty, and put you at ease,..
why were they expecting YOU to do all the work ?
I'm wondering if their egos were slighted by you not finding them engaging ???

if you find someone is funny,..puts you at ease,..is naturally comfortable with you,..then, I'm sure the smiles will come, and the laughter will follow,..but it wil be real, and will be natural.

Well I can honestly say I never even thought of that, as silly as that sounds. But redsparrow is right, I am very self focused as I tend to analyse myself a lot in those situations that it really hadn't occurred to me that they too could be questioned.

"Unless they pay money to see a comidienne' how true

I know they did not realise how big a deal it was for me even to be talking to them, but it was for me, and because multiple people said it I started to develop a complex about it.

Your right though its a two way street, goes both ways.

Originally Posted by Phool

My background...36, female, Indian, dated both asian and english men, 69 on the SA scale i.e. am comfortable in 1-2-1 relationships.

- Italy...forget it, I lived in spain and got the same. Southern europeans just have a stereo type that Brits and Germans are 'serious'
- Cliche but its in the eyes...the way they look at you, especially if they look at your mouth while you are talking.
-some people are naturally flirtatious and flirt with everyone. Be careful not to take these people too seriously.
-Body language such as playing with hair or hands, running fingertip round rim of glass, foot pointing towards you...dead give aways.
-The best thing is laughter...its the most flirtatious thing of all.
-Above all be natural...nothing quite so off putting as phony, fake humour or laughter.

Have fun!

Ok so this is normal comment from Italians and southern europeans, in a way i'm glad cos that is a bit comforting to know its not just me. I thought it was. I was on holidays with loud americans and I think that accentuated how quiet I was aswell.

Honestly all those tips I need them, I don't tend to pick up on many of them. Do men run their fingers through their hair aswell? I find it confusing though when I am talking to a man... if he is being normally friendly or if he is interested? People say 'you can just tell' but I don't think I can because so many time I have got it wrong.

Originally Posted by redsparrow

A lot of the behaviors anxious people exhibit tend to be self-focused. Anxiety likes to sap your attention of everything outside of you. When you feel anxious you close down, your body language can become defensive or avoidant, like when people commented that you were too serious. How can you be open and fun when you're anxious inside? I don't think this is to do with your being useless at flirting, I think it's this anxious response that closes you off and people can feel that, and they just feed back off the vibes they get from you (At least this is the case with me)

As for "how do you know if someone likes you", well you have to ask them. Well really, there isn't one obvious thing, it's all the little social ques that add up and unless they're ridiculously overt about it (drunk) this is just the risk one has to take when dating / socializing. I have the problem of being overly negative in my estimation of how people respond to me so even good vibes from someone can seem negative, and if that's the case for you maybe you miss those little ques

Everything you said is me too 100%. Especially the bit about anxiety and closing down. You are very wise and the way you described it is spot on.
The truth is I get incredibly anxious and I think it is a real problem. On holiday I was around a lot more young, available men than I have been in years. I was on a tour with a constant group of people but the thought of interacting with them especially the young men, I would get so nervous I literally would have to run to the toilet. Gross I kno but my anxiety get that bad, I could not keep food down. These symptoms stayed with me even til the end of the tour and I had seen them everyday for the past few wks, I would still get that anxious. So yes your anxiety can become so overwhelming, flirting goes out the window as you are trying to fight every urge not to run away. I don't kno why I am so scared 'deep down'. I would love to date yet this anxiety is so strong.

[Everleigh]

Originally Posted by NRG.89

Types

Flirting may consist of stylized gestures, language, body language, postures, and physiologic signs which act as cues to another person. Among these, at least in Western society, are:

    * Eye contact, batting eyelashes, staring, winking, etc.
    * "Protean" signals, such as touching one's hair
    * Giggling, or laughing encouragingly at any slight hint of intimacy in the other's behavior
    * Casual touches; such as a woman gently touching a man's arm during conversation
    * Smiling suggestively
    * Sending notes, poems, or small gifts
    * Flattery (regarding beauty, sexual attractiveness)
    * Online chat, texting and other one-on-one and direct messaging services while hinting affection.
    * Footsie, a form of flirtation in which people use their feet to play with each others' feet. This generally takes place under a table or in bed while rubbing feet. Participants often remove their shoes and play barefoot; however, it can also be played in socks, or wearing shoes. Though this method can backfire, as the general opinion of feet can depend on the culture and society of the area.
    * Teasing
    * Banter
    * Staging of "chance" encounters
    * Imitating of behaviors, e.g. taking a drink when the other person takes a drink, changing posture as the other does, etc.
    * Coyness, affectedly shy or modest, marked by cute, coquettish, or artful playfulness, e.g. pickup lines.
    * Giving flying Kisses.
    * Singing love songs in presence of the Girl/Boy.
    * Maintaining very short distance during casual talking.

The effectiveness of these several interactions has been subjected to detailed analysis by behavioral psychologists, and advice on their use is available from dating coaches.

Wikipedia

thanks for that
really interesting well I don't do any of them except maybe acting shy and coy. No wonder I am still single.

I think those mainly relate to women though. I found on the net lots of flirting techniques but mainly ones for women. I guess maybe with men is it supposed to be really overt?

Do men with social anxiety on here have trouble flirting? Or does it disappear when you find someone really attractive you come out of your shell? If you liked someone at work or say at your local gym or whatever, being a normally quiet person would this situation make you go out of your way to make an effort and force you to flirt as you like them enough to push through it, despite having SA. Or would your SA get worse and you avoid them more due to the fact you like them?
For me its the latter.

[Phool]

psychologically...man running fingers through hair = nerves and a need to impress...i.e. making sure every hair is in place. Girls doing it = sign of being comfortable i.e.opening up your face to allow people to look at you. Twirling long hair is seen as coy, shy, sweet and endearing by most blokes.

[Cognitive_Dissonance]

Hi Everleigh,

I can relate to how you feel about not knowing how to flirt. I'm male and 35 and also feel that I've missed the boat. I would find it incredibly difficult to flirt as I have obsessive thoughts about whether or not I'm invading someibe's privacy or being inappropriate. I feel pathetic knowing that, like you said, it becomes second nature for many people by their tenties and thirties wgile I am too anxious to interact.

I've been in situations in the past where I've fancied a girl at work or on a course and not been able to let them know how I feel. All that dates back to when I was at high school and was interested in lots of girls but was unable to show it. My way of dealing with these feelings has not been good as over the years I've beciome more avoidant and stopped going on courses or working because I fear missed opportunities as well as being unable to relate to many people there.

I think it's commendable that, as a shy person, you tried to be sociable with the men in Italy. I'm sorry to hear they thought you were too serious but I've had that said to me a lot in the past. I'm sensitive to criticism so have felt worse when people have said this. I do smile sometimes but I have similar feelings of being so uptight when I'm out that it's hard for me to be laid back.

I don't recall any women ever flirting with me except for a few girls at school and I think they were just making fun of me. I don't know how I'd respond if they did but I imagine I'd feel quite flattered to have a girl show interest in me. I've sometimes thought about visiting a country or putting myself in a situation where girls will approach me as my feelings of self-consciousness and fear of rejection are too intense for me to make the first move. I can't flirt online either though there have been a few women I chatted to who I really liked and revealed some of my feelings but sadly they didn't reciprocate.

[Phool]

Just remembered that ages ago I read a book called 'Mars and Venus on a date' which had lots of good tips in it.

[AxelFendersson]

One thing that puzzles me. Supposedly one common pattern of flirting is that the man jokes a lot and the woman laughs at his jokes.

This is all very well, but I'm not quite sure how this differs from just ordinary friendly conversation. In most groups of friends, when people converse, they make jokes, and everyone laughs. That's how it normally works, isn't it?

I must admit I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to flirt with anyone.

[Mr Ploppy]

Same here. And I really hate the idea of set patterns.

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by AxelFendersson

One thing that puzzles me. Supposedly one common pattern of flirting is that the man jokes a lot and the woman laughs at his jokes.

This is all very well, but I'm not quite sure how this differs from just ordinary friendly conversation. In most groups of friends, when people converse, they make jokes, and everyone laughs. That's how it normally works, isn't it?

Ditto. It's incredibly difficult to tell the difference between someone being friendly and being friendly. Maybe borderline impossible if you're not good at reading body language signals.

[TonaldDrump]

I do a couple of things. Be fairly sarcastic about something but end it with a grin on my face so they know im pulling their leg. I'll also just ask questions, like she'll be say picking up some paper off the floor, so i'll say what ya doin? Its just something a bit silly, but do it a few times and you can get a good laugh out of it.

It's not what you say anyway, its how you say it :D

[Eklipse]

Everleigh, I know exactly how you feel. I've wondered the same thing. It seems that women are supposed to know this but is it natural or learned? I don't know.

I haven't flirted, too shy to anyway and if it means fluttering eyelids, wiggling or looking down (classic flirtation techniqures that seem cartoonish) then I can't do that. I'm not an actress so all this flirty business isn't me. I think that getting to know someone, having good conversations and being relaxed was the real stuff to begin to form a relationship.

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by RoseKisses

I think that getting to know someone, having good conversations and being relaxed was the real stuff to begin to form a relationship.

This is also how people form friendships, though, hence the confusion. :hmmm:

[Dandelion10]

I didn't think I'd changed that much over the past week that I've aimed for recovery but I've been getting a lot more attention. At first I thought that's just an odd glance but it's becoming regular.

I put it down to a much more positive attitude and exercising, I also talk to people more now and it comes quite naturally whereas before if someone began talking to me (which they rarely did and even then it was just a work command) I'd get that ominous feeling and try to set my face into a look of interest when really I was more bothered about preventing choking when I opened my mouth to say 'yes, right away'.

Lately a few guys have checked me out and Darren said I look much more confident but when they look at me I feel like grinning because it's uncomfortable and pull my sleeves over my hands which in body language means you want to hide.

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by AnathemA

Ditto. It's incredibly difficult to tell the difference between someone being friendly and being friendly. Maybe borderline impossible if you're not good at reading body language signals.

if i am already friends or on friendly terms with a girl i cannot tell the difference between being friendly and flirting. A girl would literally have to do something really obvious like reach for my zip and try to wrestle my penis out before i would realize what her intentions were..



only time i can tell the difference is if were are not already friends/ on friendly terms. if it starts out like this then i can pick up the signals fairly quickly.



a girl i was on friendly terms with at work once stopped me as i was walking past and said "defiance i really like you",
i thought to myself ..oh that was a nice thing to say, didn't realize she ranked me as such a friend. so i then nodded to her with a quick smile as if to say thanks, then i continued on walking. but she stopped me walking off by placing a hand on my shoulder and said "no, ..i really really like you" ...then i just kinda did a quick smile again and walked off.

it was only later i thought to myself, ..hey that sounded like she possibly liked me as more than friends? and considering she had asked me twice before what i was doing for valentines day with my gf, and when i said i was still single she said "what? .. a beautiful guy like you?" ...the evidence did seem to mounting that she might of wanted to be more than friends.

unfortunately i didn't fancy her. so in the end it was no big loss, ..but i'd hate to think i was missing out on other opportunities where i did fancy the girl..

[AnathemA]

Originally Posted by Defiance

a girl i was on friendly terms with at work once stopped me as i was walking past and said "defiance i really like you",
i thought to myself ..oh that was a nice thing to say, didn't realize she ranked me as such a friend. so i then nodded to her with a quick smile as if to say thanks, then i continued on walking. but she stopped me walking off by placing a hand on my shoulder and said "no, ..i really really like you" ...then i just kinda did a quick smile again and walked off.

it was only later i thought to myself, ..hey that sounded like she possibly liked me as more than friends? and considering she had asked me twice before what i was doing for valentines day with my gf, and when i said i was still single she said "what? .. a beautiful guy like you?" ...the evidence did seem to mounting that she might of wanted to be more than friends.

Yeah, that sounds pretty obvious to me. I think even I would have worked that one out.

[2paranoid]

evrleigh,
if you want you can try out some of your moves on me, even if its just for the sake of practising, send me a pm if you want

[Everleigh]

Originally Posted by Defiance

if i am already friends or on friendly terms with a girl i cannot tell the difference between being friendly and flirting. A girl would literally have to do something really obvious like reach for my zip and try to wrestle my penis out before i would realize what her intentions were..



only time i can tell the difference is if were are not already friends/ on friendly terms. if it starts out like this then i can pick up the signals fairly quickly.



a girl i was on friendly terms with at work once stopped me as i was walking past and said "defiance i really like you",
i thought to myself ..oh that was a nice thing to say, didn't realize she ranked me as such a friend. so i then nodded to her with a quick smile as if to say thanks, then i continued on walking. but she stopped me walking off by placing a hand on my shoulder and said "no, ..i really really like you" ...then i just kinda did a quick smile again and walked off.

it was only later i thought to myself, ..hey that sounded like she possibly liked me as more than friends? and considering she had asked me twice before what i was doing for valentines day with my gf, and when i said i was still single she said "what? .. a beautiful guy like you?" ...the evidence did seem to mounting that she might of wanted to be more than friends.

unfortunately i didn't fancy her. so in the end it was no big loss, ..but i'd hate to think i was missing out on other opportunities where i did fancy the girl..

I thought stuff like that only happened in movies. So yeah she def sounded interested must of been flattering!!

Originally Posted by halfemptyglass

Okay, I am female, 22, and my experience of flirting is mostly while drunk at parties. Don't ask me how people hook up in everyday sober life.

The first thing I tend to notice about guys when they are flirting is that they show off in some way - this might be physically, or mentally, they might tell a lot of jokes, they might try and take control of the conversation... they will challenge the other guys in the group in some way. Trying to take out the competition or something like that!
Obviously if there's a large group of girls there, it can be difficult to tell who he's flirting with, but he will tend to look at that person more or direct the showing off at that person more. If you're not the person being flirted at, you can always tell who it is.

He will make the effort to be around you. If you go somewhere, he'll come with you, or if you come back from somewhere he'll ask where you've been. Because he's constantly aware of where you are, and thinking about what you're doing.

The general signs once you're on your own are standing close to each other, touching more than necessary, talking about intimate or personal things, suggesting things to do in the future, looking deep into your eyes... plus you can tell if he wants to keep it just you and him, so if he takes you away from other people or doesn't want to go and find his mates or something, he's definitely interested.

Of course, anyone with anxiety flirting would do the complete opposite of these things... and in real life where people aren't drunk and looking to pull right that second, I have no idea how to tell if someone's flirting!

exellent explanation
thanks for that!
the looking into your eyes thing i find it hard to do makes me feel really unomfortable. I was somewhere recently can't exactly remember where but i saw this good looking guy from a distance, then as i walked past him i saw him look at me and he really stared at me, so what did i do, freak out and look down at the ground.
i wanted to look back so badly but it was like my eyes were glued to the ground. this has happened before too

[Everleigh]

Originally Posted by AxelFendersson

One thing that puzzles me. Supposedly one common pattern of flirting is that the man jokes a lot and the woman laughs at his jokes.

This is all very well, but I'm not quite sure how this differs from just ordinary friendly conversation. In most groups of friends, when people converse, they make jokes, and everyone laughs. That's how it normally works, isn't it?

I must admit I wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to flirt with anyone.

yes i thought it was expected to laugh at jokes out of politeness.

Originally Posted by AnathemA

Ditto. It's incredibly difficult to tell the difference between someone being friendly and being friendly. Maybe borderline impossible if you're not good at reading body language signals.

Originally Posted by AnathemA

This is also how people form friendships, though, hence the confusion. :hmmm:

exactly!!

[Everleigh]

Originally Posted by RoseKisses

Everleigh, I know exactly how you feel. I've wondered the same thing. It seems that women are supposed to know this but is it natural or learned? I don't know.

I haven't flirted, too shy to anyway and if it means fluttering eyelids, wiggling or looking down (classic flirtation techniqures that seem cartoonish) then I can't do that. I'm not an actress so all this flirty business isn't me. I think that getting to know someone, having good conversations and being relaxed was the real stuff to begin to form a relationship.

is it natural or learnt?? i wonder that too.
it seems natural judging by my so called reserved friends who even they can flirt and have now got bfs. but yeah it doesn't seem natural to me. i went to school with a girl who was fantastic at flirting, she had the boys wrapped around her finger, it was funny and fascinating to see what men will do for a girl who is great at flirting

Originally Posted by 2paranoid

evrleigh,
if you want you can try out some of your moves on me, even if its just for the sake of practising, send me a pm if you want

ok thanks

we can set up a fake SAUK bar and i can try a few pick up lines on you ha ha

[Nuff]

- says it all lol

[Existentially_impaired]

Hey all,

Not sure how qualified I am to advise, but I reckon I know a little. This is mainly aimed at men, as I am one (and have been all my life!).

1) Ignore all of those stupid dating advice websites and such: there are no secrets. And ignore TV: it isn't real.

2) Be positive, easy-going, enthusiastic (I mean enthusiastic as in energetic, I don't mean pursue them aggressively!) and smile a lot. Unless you happen to be stunningly good looking then sitting there brooding like somebody out of Twilight will not get you any attention. Equally, being critical of things and appearing snobby or intellectually aloof will not make a good impression. Avoid potentially offensive topics (religion, politics etc.) unless the conversation naturally flows that way.

3) Don't use one-liners as they make you sound like an idiot! Just talk to the girl, you know, like she's a human or something.

4) Unless you are stunningly good looking (again) then as a man you are pretty unlikely to be approached very often by girls. This is because men are way more desperate than women (not always, but come on, we know it's usually true!) and women know that they won't need to do too much approaching because of this! After all, who wants to risk embarrassment if they don't have to! So as a male you probably will need to initiate conversations yourself. Staring at girls across the bar will not make them fall in love with you! They will just think you odd. It's much better just to smile and initiate conversation.

5) Don't try and learn some kind of conversational script. To get chemistry you have to listen to what they are actually saying and respond, not force them through some sort of check list like you are trying to sell them double-glazing. So don't try and force topics on the girl just because you are comfortable with those topics.

6) Body language: don't take a defensive posture, lean in attentively (but not too far)!

7) Don't expect anything. Just make idle chit chat and joke. You'll be able to tell if it's going well because you'll naturally end up talking about yourselves to each other and laughing and joking. Obviously any kind of physical contact is a good sign! If she touches you and leans in towards you then you are probably doing well.

8) If a girl isn't interested then she probably won't be nasty about it. I was out with some people from work the other night and I ended up hanging back in a bar with this guy as we were catching up on our drinks, everybody else went on to the club. So after we left, this guy pays for me to go into this other pub on the way and buys me a drink (free drink! No complaints here). After this he then proceeded to wonder round the dance floor, hitting on as many attractive girls as he could find. Now, not once did I notice any of them angrily reject him. Mostly they just smiled politely and moved away. These girls must have been around 18 - 20, and this guy? Probably on the right side of 50, just! It was somewhat embarrassing for me, but luckily I was pretty drunk! Anyway, the point is that failure will not end in humiliation. It will probably just end up with the girl not talking to you.


Just my thoughts. I'm no expert, but when I was younger and much more inexperienced I remember how naive a picture I had of meeting women and dating. And TV and bad internet advice only seemed to confuse me further! But as an older, somewhat wiser man of 29 I am hoping that my mistakes may help others!

(2) Is probably the most important item on the list. You can chat about anything: where you work or how you are between jobs, what you think about the venue, how the person knows so-and-so, what are your goals in life (make them up if stuck ;o). But just have fun, and if something happens then it happens. Don't get too invested too soon and don't give out your life story. A mistake that I used to make was trying to justify myself and my existence to the person immediately so that I could assure myself I wouldn't be rejected later! I would define myself to them outright because I was terrified they'd get the wrong idea of me! Your existence justifies itself, and they will make their own minds up about you no matter what you say. The best impression you make will be through being enjoyable company, IMHO.


Turned into an essay, sorry!
Phil.

[Everleigh]

Originally Posted by Existentially_impaired

Hey all,

Not sure how qualified I am to advise, but I reckon I know a little. This is mainly aimed at men, as I am one (and have been all my life!).

1) Ignore all of those stupid dating advice websites and such: there are no secrets. And ignore TV: it isn't real.

2) Be positive, easy-going, enthusiastic (I mean enthusiastic as in energetic, I don't mean pursue them aggressively!) and smile a lot. Unless you happen to be stunningly good looking then sitting there brooding like somebody out of Twilight will not get you any attention. Equally, being critical of things and appearing snobby or intellectually aloof will not make a good impression. Avoid potentially offensive topics (religion, politics etc.) unless the conversation naturally flows that way.

3) Don't use one-liners as they make you sound like an idiot! Just talk to the girl, you know, like she's a human or something.

4) Unless you are stunningly good looking (again) then as a man you are pretty unlikely to be approached very often by girls. This is because men are way more desperate than women (not always, but come on, we know it's usually true!) and women know that they won't need to do too much approaching because of this! After all, who wants to risk embarrassment if they don't have to! So as a male you probably will need to initiate conversations yourself. Staring at girls across the bar will not make them fall in love with you! They will just think you odd. It's much better just to smile and initiate conversation.

5) Don't try and learn some kind of conversational script. To get chemistry you have to listen to what they are actually saying and respond, not force them through some sort of check list like you are trying to sell them double-glazing. So don't try and force topics on the girl just because you are comfortable with those topics.

6) Body language: don't take a defensive posture, lean in attentively (but not too far)!

7) Don't expect anything. Just make idle chit chat and joke. You'll be able to tell if it's going well because you'll naturally end up talking about yourselves to each other and laughing and joking. Obviously any kind of physical contact is a good sign! If she touches you and leans in towards you then you are probably doing well.

8) If a girl isn't interested then she probably won't be nasty about it. I was out with some people from work the other night and I ended up hanging back in a bar with this guy as we were catching up on our drinks, everybody else went on to the club. So after we left, this guy pays for me to go into this other pub on the way and buys me a drink (free drink! No complaints here). After this he then proceeded to wonder round the dance floor, hitting on as many attractive girls as he could find. Now, not once did I notice any of them angrily reject him. Mostly they just smiled politely and moved away. These girls must have been around 18 - 20, and this guy? Probably on the right side of 50, just! It was somewhat embarrassing for me, but luckily I was pretty drunk! Anyway, the point is that failure will not end in humiliation. It will probably just end up with the girl not talking to you.


Just my thoughts. I'm no expert, but when I was younger and much more inexperienced I remember how naive a picture I had of meeting women and dating. And TV and bad internet advice only seemed to confuse me further! But as an older, somewhat wiser man of 29 I am hoping that my mistakes may help others!

(2) Is probably the most important item on the list. You can chat about anything: where you work or how you are between jobs, what you think about the venue, how the person knows so-and-so, what are your goals in life (make them up if stuck ;o). But just have fun, and if something happens then it happens. Don't get too invested too soon and don't give out your life story. A mistake that I used to make was trying to justify myself and my existence to the person immediately so that I could assure myself I wouldn't be rejected later! I would define myself to them outright because I was terrified they'd get the wrong idea of me! Your existence justifies itself, and they will make their own minds up about you no matter what you say. The best impression you make will be through being enjoyable company, IMHO.


Turned into an essay, sorry!
Phil.

I am female but nevertheless found that really interesting to read and you sound to be quite relationship savvy.

Good point to remember they are human beings. So true the anxiety can be overwhelming and you can start focusing on impressing or saying the right thing and forget to focus on the actual conversation.

Also date movies 'rom coms' are just that-hollywood B.S. I took me a long time to realise that. There was a face book grp I saw ages ago that was called 'disney gave me unrealistic expectations of love' or something like that. And about 100 000 people joined that groups. so yeah movies can make us have unrealistic expectations for sure.

[GoldFish]

for some reason i'd feel like an idiot if i flirted. i dont think i'm ugly but i feel a bit nerdy and it would just be strange..i'd be sitting there thinking ..."is this girl serious...it must be the 7 foot dude person behind me, this can't be real"

[Everleigh]

^sounds familiar. basically discount it or think i must be mistaken.

[GoldFish]

i just find that generally girls have this ..what's the word..sassiness or swagger that is sort of flirtatious to begin with...because of the way they dress and the make up etc..the hair ...i generally expect that most of the time most girls already have a ton of interest already or they probably have a boyfriend ...either that or they are after a certain sort of guy..i base this on experience from observing that girls tend to have crushes on boys who are high on the pecking order or are really tall or well built and obviously have some sort of endearing confidence going on. ...i once worked with a bunch of girls who all had boyfriends that were of a similar slate, tall and well built ...none of them were nerdy or musicians or anything outside of the box.

yes ok i am being superficial and i am generalising i know, and its irrational to think all girls are only into one sort of guy ...but it's just what i notice as a common trend.

i know that couples can form from all sorts of varied reasons that have nothing to do with superficialness as well. sometimes two people who are friends and share experiences become couples ..people with different personalities ..opposites as well.

i just wish there were more quircky awkard people around ...because it feels like everyone out there is so cool and smooth talking and calculated ...i want to meet friends and people who are a bit nerdy but still nice and funny.

[Rubik]

I dont think I have flirted with a girl before If i did it would just seem so out of the blue and forward compared to my normal nature, it would probably scare them off

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by Existentially_impaired

Hey all,
Not sure how qualified I am to advise, but I reckon I know a little. This is mainly aimed at men, as I am one (and have been all my life!).
1) Ignore all of those stupid dating advice websites and such: there are no secrets. And ignore TV: it isn't real.

You're dead right about there being lots of bad advice out there especially from TV and movie portrayals of relationships.

Originally Posted by Existentially_impaired

6) Body language: don't take a defensive posture, lean in attentively (but not too far)!

Those are some good tips but I've personally found something different from tip no.6. I would say don't lean in, in fact quite the opposite, leaning slightly away is seems to work better. You can lean in if you need to hear but then you still return to the leaned away position. It shows you are more at ease and confident in yourself with the other persons presence and they won't feel as penned in. It's just a small thing but I feel it makes a difference, obviously that's only what I have noticed.