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  #31  
Old 27th February 2008, 19:45
png png is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mu.
It also doesn't mention that different patients will respond differently to different medicines.
Agreed, that's a factor that makes the figures look much more pessimistic than the reality. If each drug were only to work for a half of the people who take it, and the trials only tried one drug on each patient, then that's an immediate 50% 'failure' rate in the trial results.

In reality, a patient may need to try several meds before they find one that works for them, but they probably will find one eventually. That good outcome is completely missed by these reports.

For my n=1, I've tried eight different anti-depressants from six of the classes and had some benefit (to anxiety and/or depression) from around half of them.
  #32  
Old 27th February 2008, 19:48
Occultus Occultus is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
u no wot stik to ur medication cos its no skin of my nose
I will stick to my medication. I'll also stick to my CBT - a proven therapy. I'll also continue to expose myself to social situations. I'm confident I'll do well.
  #33  
Old 27th February 2008, 21:20
Ben Ben is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
i may be a bit of a skeptic, but i like to rely on science and things that are PROVEN in controlled clinical trials... no thankyou, i will stick to established science, not pseudoscience and gobbledygook
Regarding the recent research dismissing the effectiveness of SSRI's... I would postulate you could find hundreds of scientific articles disputing the hypothesis that they are of no clinical value.

Just as you have read one website, then implied scientific opinion is, in its entirety, reflected in the article, I could point you here, and based on your previous responses, say you were talking gobbledegook.

Scientific opinion is flexible, transient, and open to major revision at short notice. In the same way David incorrectly dismissed medication as ineffective, you are guilty of the same transgression of unilaterally dismissing a treatment route, based on your personal opinions and/or selective posting of scientific articles.

On a seperate note, I think Davids post have been on the whole optimistic and positive. Based on a series of responses that may not reflect his past posting behaviour, I think the lets wade in and insult him attitude is a little undignified (as were some of his responses). I would add I do not think its appropriate for a moderator (in public) to rubbish the posts of someone in this forum, regardless of any perceived provocation. Just as a referee in a footy match, it is the responsibilty of a moderator to display, in public, an impartial position.
  #34  
Old 28th February 2008, 03:03
Holly Holly is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Have to say, I agree with WinterDavid on this one.

i
Quote:
m beating my SA by proactively taking big actions to face my fears , im putting in the work myself therefore I AM responsible for my fullfilment

but i person who pops a pill is letting the pill do all of the work, the pill is responsible for his fulffilment not HIM, so he hasn't done any work
I have tried coming off the meds but have spiralled into a state whereby I cannot function and am a chain smoking mess rocking back and forth in the darkness, contemplating suicide. Mmm, productive!!

So instead, I choose to take pills to keep my head above water. But "no work"!!!!???? You must be joking!!!!!!!

Every day I go to work in a highly sociable environment - facing my fears daily - I have also tried all manner of talking therapies and associated "homeworks" set. Unfortunately, to no avail. But I continue to push myself to "get out there" and live my life despite more often than not feeling absolute sh*te and often wondering what the f*cking point is. But you've got to keep on keeping on haven't you?

I'm sure a lot of people on here would resent the idea that "popping a pill" somehow makes life easy and takes the hard work out of living with a very real and dibilitating condition. Then again, if a pill were to magically make me super happy and life a breeze - bring it on - I'd have a bucketful thank you very much. If it helps, then that's great. To be honest, I don't really understand where this intolerance of the ways others choose to help themselves comes from.
  #35  
Old 28th February 2008, 13:49
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
thousands in minutes eh?

i may be a bit of a skeptic, but i like to rely on science and things that are PROVEN in controlled clinical trials.


if you read my link posted above, you will see that NLP has NO scientific or clinical proof as to its effectiveness at treating phobias or anxiety.

now it may work for some suggestible people, you could argue that youd have to be suggestible to even believe it could help you, and then your already 'primed' for it do so.

but thousands in minutes cured???

no thankyou, i will stick to established science, not pseudoscience and gobbledygook
yes thousands in minutes.

25 % of his clients are cured in just one hour. one one is 60 MINUTES.

he has cured thousands of people and most of them have been cured in an hour. MINUTES, MINUTES, MINUTES.

NLP doesn't have any scientific prove of its effectivenss but neither does medication:

New generation anti-depressants have little clinical benefit for most patients, research suggests.

that above sentence hasd just been copied and pasted by me, its from the first post in this thread.

you say that only sum people are suggestible to NLP but that sentences suggests that only some people are suggestable to drugs.

ive tried NLP and ive tried medication also.

have u even tried NLP???????????????????????
  #36  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:38
Ben Ben is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
I am not going to tell people NOT to try NLP, because thats not my place to do so, it may work for people.

But you are going around TELLING people not to take medication, that is a very irresponsible thing to do , for the kind of people coming here.
I think that is the crucial element in the communication problems you are having David. You must temper your enthusiasm for a certain treatment, with caveats stating that your experience with them is yours and yours alone.

You cannot advise people to stop there medication. You cannot know at that time and in that stage of their sa, if it may be the very best option they have. Stopping medication abrubtly is also potentially a medically risky thing to do.

I have tried all forms of therapy for SA, every single one. Some drugs havent worked, some have. Some therapies were great, others not, some type of counselling helped etc etc.

winterDavid is perfectly within his rights to be dismissive of NLP (which I disagree with), but he does not say it will never work for others, and thats where he has you (DM) over a barrel with due respect.

I have read a lot of DM posts, a lot being heartfealt about the misery his SA has caused, and also the lengths he is willing to push himself too. Plus he offers a lot of helpful recommendations regarding self help books from Amazon. You got a lot to offer DM but please resist the temptation to blanket dismiss medication for SA.
  #37  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:39
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
you misunderstand.

although there is no scientific proof of NLP's effectiveness.

there is MOUNTAINS UPON MOUNTAINS UPON MOUNTAINS of evidence of the effectiveness of medication.

although SSRI's have recently been knocked, if you read the report, it states that in the new tests, SSRI's still had an effect on the most severe cases of depression.

SSRI's are not the only medication in the world.

and MILLIONS of people around the world lead a better quality of life thanks to medication for whatever ailment they have.

I am not going to tell people NOT to try NLP, because thats not my place to do so, it may work for people.

But you are going around TELLING people not to take medication, that is a very irresponsible thing to do , for the kind of people coming here.
in that case then there is MOUNTAINS UPON MOUNTAINS UPON MOUNTAINS of evidence of the effectiveness of nlp i.e - all of the thousands of people who have been cured by it.

i know from personal experience that medication can help cos when i tried it myself it did help with my anxiety levels but i advise people not to use it cos its dangerous, there are side effects and there are so many better aproaches out there.

im against medication cos its bad for you and dangerous

but i dont know know why u are against NLP cos it has never harmed a soul
  #38  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:41
chaddy chaddy is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
SSRI's still had an effect on the most severe cases of depression.
Everyone's experience of depression is different and might vary from feeling a bit gloomy to being completely incapacitated by it. Antidepressants certainly worked for me when I had my most severe bout of depression. I slowly transformed from a hopeless, delusional, paranoid, suicidal insomniac who had a complete breakdown into a crazily over-the-top excitable, fun, happy person. I loved being on my medication and it saved my life.
  #39  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:44
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben
I think that is the crucial element in the communication problems you are having David. You must temper your enthusiasm for a certain treatment, with caveats stating that your experience with them is yours and yours alone.

You cannot advise people to stop there medication. You cannot know at that time and in that stage of their sa, if it may be the very best option they have. Stopping medication abrubtly is also potentially a medically risky thing to do.

I have tried all forms of therapy for SA, every single one. Some drugs havent worked, some have. Some therapies were great, others not, some type of counselling helped etc etc.

winterDavid is perfectly within his rights to be dismissive of NLP (which I disagree with), but he does not say it will never work for others, and thats where he has you (DM) over a barrel with due respect.

I have read a lot of DM posts, a lot being heartfealt about the misery his SA has caused, and also the lengths he is willing to push himself too. Plus he offers a lot of helpful recommendations regarding self help books from Amazon. You got a lot to offer DM but please resist the temptation to blanket dismiss medication for SA.
never in a million years .

any negativity in a persons life was meant to be cured 100% at the root and meds do not achieve this.

im against meds and i will continue to advise people to stear clear for the rest of thier lives.

if people dont like that then thats their problem

im doing a gud thing and i have peoples best interests at heart.

i honestly do not care wot other people think, if i want to say something im saying it regardless
  #40  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:47
Ben Ben is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
never in a million years .

any negativity in a persons life was meant to be cured 100% at the root and meds do not achieve this.

im against meds and i will continue to advise people to stear clear for the rest of thier lives.

if people dont like that then thats their problem

im doing a gud thing and i have peoples best interests at heart.

i honestly do not care wot other people think, if i want to say something im saying it regardless
I agree that medication does not treat the root problem, but it may help them be able to achieve a state of mind to be able to do that. IE it may lift the depression just enough to allow people to give CBT/NLP/Therapy a chance.

No probs you being against meds, and advising people not to take them. You cant advise people to stop taking them once they have started though. Thats potentially medically dangerous.

If you did that, I think a lot of the positive messages you have would get through to more people.
  #41  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:50
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
Winterdavid didn't say that.

See? -

winter david is against NLP whether he sed sed it or not, just ask him.

don't worry i read it all. and just because he sed he isn't going to tell people NOT to use NLP doesn't meen he is not against it.

and who are you anyway?????

i really don't like the way u spoke to me then when u sed '' i really wish ud read 1st b4 u go into ur next NLP rant''

we are having a disagreement here yes but we are not insulting each other

then all of a sudden u pop up , you are not even in the discussion, and u start insulting me.

i think u best go and join a different thread
  #42  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:51
chaddy chaddy is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Have a chill pill.
  #43  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:55
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
^ I didn't even see why anyone should listen to DM's advice, he's shown himself to be extremely and rude and dismissive to a mod, plus his expression and spelling etc is atrocious - it doesn't exactly inspire one to sit up and listen.

you know what im the one person on this site that has the balls to beat SA and the drive to do it.

ive took actions that u couldn't take in a million years

trust me if theres one person on this site that people should listen to its me cos im the only one who's gonna beat this and im the only one capable of walking my walk.

yes im rude now and again and my spelling is garbage but so wot , those things are insignificant when it comes to beating SA

ive sed my peice , good look with beating SA cos i think u need it
  #44  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:57
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
Um, just keep digging your own holes.

alrite ill see u later,

im not into these petty arguments, ive got better things to do
  #45  
Old 28th February 2008, 14:58
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
You're just being strange now. And how do you know that I haven't already beaten SA?
strnge ?

i really dont know why u think im being strange

ok yes uve beat SA , gud 1

like ive just sed ill see u later cos im not into these petty arguments
  #46  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:04
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
Your telling people on a mental health site not to take antidepressants is not petty though - that's the point. You have some useful things to say and for the most part your heart seems to be in the right place but you go about it all wrong and that really doesn't help your case.
telling people on a mental health site to not take meds is not petty no. im advising people, theres nothing petty about it.

im not interesdted in helping my case. i have things to say so i say them and if people want to listen then good for them, if they dont then good for them. i dont care. ill advise people and wether they want to listen is up to them

and for the unpteenth time ill see u later
  #47  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:04
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
no thankyou, i will stick to established science, not pseudoscience and gobbledygook
NLP is not gobbledygook, i know loads of people who have reeped its benefits. Its claims are often exaggerated in some quarters but it does work.
  #48  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:04
Kevin Hodge Kevin Hodge is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
you know what im the one person on this site that has the balls to beat SA and the drive to do it.


come on mate, do you really want me to point out how wrong that is? there are loads of people who have beaten sa on this site already, and plenty that are doing a great job of beating it - myself included. you should retract that statement if you wish to retain any integrity.

Quote:
ive took actions that u couldn't take in a million years
you don't know what other people have gone through or could go through, and saying that you are the best is just arrogant.

Quote:
trust me if theres one person on this site that people should listen to its me cos im the only one who's gonna beat this and im the only one capable of walking my walk.
well, like i said before, plenty of people off here have beaten sa already, and loads more are doing so.

but then again, on the other hand, if noone else can do what you do, then your advice is going to be useless to us all, isn't it?


i don't really know anything about your therapy but your need to reconsider your attitude is clear for all to see. you can't go around telling everyone that you are better than them, just because you are messed up enough to believe that! come on dude, seriously. come off it.

and btw, i don't need your therapy either. i'm making so much progress i can barely cope with it all - all without your therapy.
  #49  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:06
Occultus Occultus is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
you know what im the one person on this site that has the balls to beat SA and the drive to do it.

ive took actions that u couldn't take in a million years

trust me if theres one person on this site that people should listen to its me cos im the only one who's gonna beat this and im the only one capable of walking my walk.
With respect, that's a pretty arrogant position you're taking there. I don't for a second believe you are the only person that can, will or has already overcome SA, and I'm sure my feelings are shared by many. To suggest otherwise is pure arrogance, nothing more.

ETA: Ultraskink beat me to it!
  #50  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:07
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAMAN
[/B]

come on mate, do you really want me to point out how wrong that is? there are loads of people who have beaten sa on this site already, and plenty that are doing a great job of beating it - myself included. you should retract that statement if you wish to retain any integrity.



you don't know what other people have gone through or could go through, and saying that you are the best is just arrogant.



well, like i said before, plenty of people off here have beaten sa already, and loads more are doing so.

but then again, on the other hand, if noone else can do what you do, then your advice is going to be useless to us all, isn't it?


i don't really know anything about your therapy but your need to reconsider your attitude is clear for all to see. you can't go around telling everyone that you are better than them, just because you are messed up enough to believe that! come on dude, seriously. come off it.

and btw, i don't need your therapy either. i'm making so much progress i can barely cope with it all - all without your therapy.
good 4 u

i honestly cudn't giv a rats arse abar anythin u just sed there mate
  #51  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:08
Pal Pal is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by caughtbythefuzz
^ I didn't even see why anyone should listen to DM's advice, he's shown himself to be extremely and rude and dismissive to a mod, plus his expression and spelling etc is atrocious - it doesn't exactly inspire one to sit up and listen.
It could be argued that people have also been rude and dismissive to Davids posts.

There's a lot of unnessecery critisim on this thread!!!
  #52  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:08
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

A friendly warning

Please debate the topic by all means but stay within the forum rules.
  #53  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:10
Kevin Hodge Kevin Hodge is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pal
It could be argued that people have also been rude and dismissive to Davids posts.

There's a lot of unnessecery critisim on this thread!!!
you have my respect for this
  #54  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:11
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
you know what im the one person on this site that has the balls to beat SA and the drive to do it.
That however i will disagree with, you are far from the only person with the "balls" to beat SA or the drive to do it.
  #55  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:11
Kevin Hodge Kevin Hodge is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
good 4 u

i honestly cudn't giv a rats arse abar anythin u just sed there mate
aw come on dude, loosen up. you are away up on a high horse there, get back down among your fellow humans. you ain't god you know
  #56  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:12
Kevin Hodge Kevin Hodge is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Occultus
With respect, that's a pretty arrogant position you're taking there. I don't for a second believe you are the only person that can, will or has already overcome SA, and I'm sure my feelings are shared by many. To suggest otherwise is pure arrogance, nothing more.

ETA: Ultraskink beat me to it!
*high five*
  #57  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:17
Platybelodon Platybelodon is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by david mckenna
you know what im the one person on this site that has the balls to beat SA and the drive to do it...trust me if theres one person on this site that people should listen to its me cos im the only one who's gonna beat this and im the only one capable of walking my walk.
Maybe you underestimate us! I'm also against drugs (at least for myself) and I recommend that people engage in vigorous exercise instead as I believe it can provide a superior "chemical boost" without the unfortunate side-effects.
  #58  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:32
mi©o mi©o is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

David. Your approach to tackling your anxieties is something admirable. I'm even against the use of medications in most cases. But your attitude stinks. Maybe you should be working on that instead?

What you're posting here is not helpful to anyone. And that includes your absurd claims that depression can be cured in minutes.
  #59  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:33
david mckenna david mckenna is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterdavid
i can accept that NLP may work for some people.

my opinions on NLP are offered as such :- opinions, and if it wasnt for this bit of frustration i wouldnt have posted them here.

When people come onto this site asking for help, my natural reaction would be to be positive, welcome them, and if possible, give examples of how similar situations i have experienced and possibly dealt with.

i would advise them to seek a doctors/therapists advice as to possible treatment, and to look around these forums for information and opinions.

but what i do not do is jump onto every "help me" thread, when people are desperate for answers, and pretend to give them the "one and only answer, the magic wand that can cure you instantly"

that is dangerous, in my opinion.


David, you are not the only one who has the balls to beat SA.

i am sorry if i came across as rude, but with this kindof message board i think we have to be very very very careful, respectful of the fact that everyone is different and has different experiences of SA, and different tools to help cure themselves.

its all about how we phrase and direct our own opinions, people are desperate for magic wands sometimes, and we cant let them think that some "authority" on SA has already discovered all the answers and tell them what NOT to do.
i respect you . u seem like a good person and u have a lot of gud advise

but i do feel like i have a magic wand. ive found kabbalh and honestly it is unbeleiveable. i know exactly how to beat SA and i just want to tell people how.

ive seen someone completely chnage using nlp . and meds just isn't gonna cure a problem at the root you know wot im saying.

for all of u out there who think im arragont, who beleive that i think im god well my answer is this:

i honestly beleive that im one of the few people who has the balls and drive to beat this thing. i do see myself as a one off type of person and an exception to the rule. i don't beleive that there are many people out there with the same courage and drive as me.

therefore i fee l like im in a better position than you all in regards to being able to advise people.

if u think im arrogant then great, gud 4 u, but i honestly beleive that im better equipted to beat this thing than anyone on this site and i intend to prove it
  #60  
Old 28th February 2008, 15:36
Medea Medea is offline
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Default Re: The drugs don't work

If beating SA means becoming rude and aggressive, then I'm just happy with being SA, ta!
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