Your thoughts on Cannabis and its "Illegal" status?

[umm]

Originally Posted by Lifeisagame

It just bothers me that people (not you) can bang on about how harmful cannabis is and how it is such a risk... All the while they fully accept booze as a safe drug.

It's almost hypocrisy at it's finest.

It isn't. Booze is controlled for just that reason, so the concern has already been headed off. Personally I think cannabis should be subject to similar controls and taxation.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by umm

It isn't. Booze is controlled for just that reason, so the concern has already been headed off. Personally I think cannabis should be subject to similar controls and taxation.

Yes nobody here is saying it shouldn't be.

It may be controlled but the fact is it is a Deadly drug.

[umm]

Originally Posted by Lifeisagame

Yes nobody here is saying it shouldn't be.

It may be controlled but the fact is it is a Deadly drug.

My point is that people don't accept booze as a "safe drug". It's controlled because it is dangerous - and people are happy with that. So comparing the 2 is kind of a false equivalence and not really the argument that was put forward.

You might cite hypocrisy as a reason people are pro booze being legal and anti cannabis being the same, but this is hardly going to help your argument because of the human factor - where rightly or wrongly something historically illegal carries this stigma to it. Suggesting people are somehow flawed or hypocritical for being subject to such influence probably makes them more likely to support its continued illegality just to be shot of the whole topic. Discussions around this sort of stuff need to be carried out with sensitivity to how people perceive things (if one is looking to change minds, that is)

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

I fully expect a huge mess in the NHS once weed use reaches alcohol use levels.

As long as my taxes don't fund treatments for joe bloggs' weed-smoking induced bronchitis I don't mind. We already have enough of that going on.

..Not jesting either.

I seriously doubt that even if weed and alcohol levels we're matched. That the mess would be quite as bad.

Through my taxes I pay for piss heads up and down the UK who abuse booze. Life's a bitch ain't?

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by aloneuntilidie

There are two assumptions here:

the first is that politicians are going to legalise something without controls; if the argument against the side-effects of cannabis can be overcome by stating that high THC strains won't be allowed, this will speed up the legalisation considerably.

the second is that everyone is capable of making an informed decision; the simple fact is that, for some, if it is legal they will assume that it's completely safe. It's taken decades for smokers to understand the difference between high tar and low tar, so it's unlikely that CBD & THC levels are going to mean much to them (how many people actually read the sugar or fat content of the foods they buy - and those have handy traffic light symbols these days?).

You and I may make informed decisions but a significant proportion of the population don't; in my opinion, it is better to have strictly-controlled legalisation and then, if that causes no problems, broaden the options in the future.

I would still be happy with what you suggest don't get me wrong. But the weed dispensaries should have staff fully trained in the subject, of course.

So people can make an informed choice at the point of sale. And the THC would be clearly labelled and warnings provided.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by umm

My point is that people don't accept booze as a "safe drug". It's controlled because it is dangerous - and people are happy with that. So comparing the 2 is kind of a false equivalence and not really the argument that was put forward.

You might cite hypocrisy as a reason people are pro booze being legal and anti cannabis being the same, but this is hardly going to help your argument because of the human factor - where rightly or wrongly something historically illegal carries this stigma to it. Suggesting people are somehow flawed or hypocritical for being subject to such influence probably makes them more likely to support its continued illegality just to be shot of the whole topic. Discussions around this sort of stuff need to be carried out with sensitivity to how people perceive things (if one is looking to change minds, that is)

Of course people see booze as a safe drug... You think half the teens that drink it are fully aware that it will KILL them if they have too much?

It is marketed as a safe drug. A social drink.

Of course all the propaganda about weed has taken it's toll over the last 75 years or so. But we are gradually repairing that damage. I only say it is hypocritical because of the freedom of choice. If it was the other way around make booze illegal and weed legal imagine the chaos and double standards.

[Dougella]

^ What about specific strains for medicinal use biscuits? It does seem that it can be very helpful for people with MS, people going through cancer treatment and children with severe epilepsy.

[Dougella]

^^ It's ok, I'm not an expert by any means! I understand people's misgivings about it being completely legalised for recreational use but there does seem to be some strong evidence that it does have medicinal uses. Like you say it needs to be studied a lot more, part of the reason it hasn't been is because it's illegal, ironically.

[Dougella]

^ That really works in certain Asian countries, no drugs at all where they have the death penalty

It's much better to go with an approach to drugs like they have done in Portugal.

[Spectrelight]

I don't think the fact that possession is illegal has much bearing on whether people smoke weed or not, assuming they know a dealer to get it from. The chances of being caught are practically zero and the chances of being being punished are even lower. I fail to see how leaving a product that they'll always be a demand for to be supplied by organised crime is ever a good idea. If it was legal it could be regulated and taxed so no more not knowing what your buying and the tax money can pay for rehab for the small number of people that become problem users.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Johnny88

^yep same here. It seems from studies its all abit muddled.
From my experience and from people I've smoked weed with and what I discovered from how it affected them I would like to see it legalised. It is so easy to obtain now that there is always going to be a large amount of cannabis users. Regardless of negative scientific data people will go off other people's experience of smoking it and I think there are far worse anecdotal evidence of alcohol having a far worse impact. The thing with weed is that if you react badly to it you don't carry on smoking it as many people I know of don't for that reason. There are always going to be issues with addiction but views on addiction are currently mixed many believing that social problems are to blame rather than it being a disease.

I can't see how legalising it could cause more problems though, I see it doing the reverse.

Yes and weed is not actually very addictive at all, relatively speaking... Doesn't make it into the top 10 most addictive drugs.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/10...ve-drugs-list/

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Spectrelight

I don't think the fact that possession is illegal has much bearing on whether people smoke weed or not, assuming they know a dealer to get it from. The chances of being caught are practically zero and the chances of being being punished are even lower. I fail to see how leaving a product that they'll always be a demand for to be supplied by organised crime is ever a good idea. If it was legal it could be regulated and taxed so no more not knowing what your buying and the tax money can pay for rehab for the small number of people that become problem users.

There is little reasoning for having it remain "illegal". We can only learn from the countries and states where it is and has been legal for some time, to see how it impacts the economy and society, but when you consider the damaging affects of other drugs that are legal. We have to ask the question about why are we are so relaxed about other more damaging drugs being legal.

I see one major issue that allows us to blindly accept some drugs despite their huge adverse effects. Because these drugs are socially acceptable, they are backed by the government and therefore there is no propaganda against them. Allowing them to flourish whilst at the same time causing too many deaths.

[firemonkey]

Excess water causes death,ban water

[Dimgeek]

Maybe the guy just dropped something and was looking for it?

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

You need to have a remarkably calm or naive personality to allow you to reason about the lovely gentleman who might be trying set fire to your car, garden and bins at 4 am.

The difference between molly and mary is academic. Both are offered forward for legalisation.

I have another recent anecdote about drug use I may bust out for cross examination:

About 15 meters from the big window in our living room is a house with it's door under a large archway. Inside lived a charming young fellow who partook and sold the ganj. This chap looked particularly gormless and stupid, as the lowest hanging fruit amongs the drugbrotherhood always does.

One of our neighbours has titanic balls and told him to take his drugs away from the area where her young children were growing up, and he scuttled off like a frightened stoner deer.

Around mid July he started having visits during the middle of the day by a group of lads. Cut to the end: they stole most of his possessions 'as payment' and beat the shit into him several times. Now he lives with his mum. 15 meters from my living room! Knives to his throat!

Brace yourself for the chorus 'oh then take it out of the hands of the crims!'
Yea, lets give control of something which has a profound effect on an organ we know little about to businessmen,who already sell products which knowingly harm those who consume then. Weed in tescos, why not?

You think the government would allow weed to be distributed through Tesco's? It would insult the snobby shoppers in there, the ignorant ones that eat up all the propaganda about weed.

If alcohol was illegal or tobacco, you would have the same sad situation happening there. Weed is not only illegal but is stigmatised to death by people like yourself. I am just talking about Cannabis legalization as that is the one drug that I am certain will help so many, and those it doesn't they can just never smoke a J again...

[Marco]

I don't really understand why people get so worked up over legalizing cannabis. Smoking the stuff for recreational purposes is just a mug's game in my view and as for using it therapeutically, far better to use one of the licensed medicinal products (e.g. Sativex) prescribed by a doctor that is properly quality controlled and much safer to use.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Legion

I don't know why you're so worried about me stigmatizing your favourite criminal activity. I have yet to convince any of the 11-18 year olds across the country to not to take this grave risk, which you present as a freedom. They're all dancing to your tune.
On that note, when is it too early for children to start ingesting cannabis? 5? 2? Do we infuse their formula milk?

All I can do is remind you that you are criminals. The law is clear. Possession of Cannabis. 7 years detainment. Until such time as we either leave the UN Security Council or our treaty obligations change it will remain this way. After which I suspect it will quickly be formally legalised and you may go about your stupefaction without my scorn.

Well, except for all the extra bloody taxes I may have to pay. I may just move somewhere sensible, perhaps Japan or South Korea.

I have never condoned the use of cannabis for children. That is silly, just like your view on Pot smokers.

It's people like you that blindly accept the law as morally correct that exacerbates the negative perception of weed.

[.Andrew.]

I'm a non smoker and also never tried cannabis...there does seem to however be promising studies for it's use in pure form for nausea related to chemotherapy patients, MS sufferers and some chronic pain conditions. I think it will be used more medically in the future.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Marco

I don't really understand why people get so worked up over legalizing cannabis. Smoking the stuff for recreational purposes is just a mug's game in my view and as for using it therapeutically, far better to use one of the licensed medicinal products (e.g. Sativex) prescribed by a doctor that is properly quality controlled and much safer to use.

The trouble is that at the moment a lot of people can't get Sativex on the NHS because it's too expensive so a lot of areas won't fund it. If it was made legal for medicinal purposes, even if only in specific forms to be prescribed by a doctor, a lot more people would be able to be helped by it.

[Utopia]

I really don't think it's that bad. I don't think anyone has ever died of a cannabis overdose. The few times I've done it I found that it may be good for pain. Some of the stuff you get in this country is literally laced with LSD though. It would be better if it were regulated tbh. I wouldn't even do it that much as it doesn't really lift my mood all that much, it just feels good and helps me relax. There is evidence that using cannabis makes you more at risk of schizophrenia but obviously correlation does not imply causation. I really think people should just chill out over it.

[Rockysocks]

I think it would be a good thing if it were legal, regulated and sold over the counter to adults. The revenue could be used for the NHS. It would reduce the number of people buying it illegally, maybe even put a few dealers out of business.

I smoked weed from light use to heavy use from 2013-2015. At worst, it made me dizzy for a few seconds or very paranoid if I mixed it with alcohol. The problem with smoking anything is risk of throat cancer, probably better consumed or used in a vaporiser (had it this way, too). Perhaps they could sell it only to be ingested if they want to play the health card.

It got that I preferred it to alcohol - no sickness, no potentially putting myself in harm and cheaper than a night out clubbing. I liked the way it made me think and was very relaxing. It never made me feel sad or depressed. But, it did mean getting high seemed better than not being high. It helped me sleep and that itself was awesome.

And when I came to Australia in 2015, for months, I missed it. I missed that feeling. And now I am over that, and having tried it again more recently I didn't like it and haven't missed it since.

Any drug can be dangerous. I've seen alcohol destroy people. And no matter how much weed I could smoke in one go, I always found alcohol to be more potent. You cannot die of too much weed in one sitting.

As for a gateway drug - I've had zero interest in any of the drugs that circulate bars and clubs and never tried them or wanted to.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by pink_wafer

I think it would be a good thing if it were legal, regulated and sold over the counter to adults. The revenue could be used for the NHS. It would reduce the number of people buying it illegally, maybe even put a few dealers out of business.

I smoked weed from light use to heavy use from 2013-2015. At worst, it made me dizzy for a few seconds or very paranoid if I mixed it with alcohol. The problem with smoking anything is risk of throat cancer, probably better consumed or used in a vaporiser (had it this way, too). Perhaps they could sell it only to be ingested if they want to play the health card.

It got that I preferred it to alcohol - no sickness, no potentially putting myself in harm and cheaper than a night out clubbing. I liked the way it made me think and was very relaxing. It never made me feel sad or depressed. But, it did mean getting high seemed better than not being high. It helped me sleep and that itself was awesome.

And when I came to Australia in 2015, for months, I missed it. I missed that feeling. And now I am over that, and having tried it again more recently I didn't like it and haven't missed it since.

Any drug can be dangerous. I've seen alcohol destroy people. And no matter how much weed I could smoke in one go, I always found alcohol to be more potent. You cannot die of too much weed in one sitting.

As for a gateway drug - I've had zero interest in any of the drugs that circulate bars and clubs and never tried them or wanted to.

That is the same as me, in terms of not having any desire to try other drugs. The Weed is a gateway drug myth is pretty much on its ass now anyway, which of course is a good thing. It's BS like that that makes so many people I know think negatively about weed and all it stands for.

I agree that any drug can be abused and be dangerous. And that is why when weed is legalized here in the UK. I want to see strict regulation and sale of weed.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Marco

I don't really understand why people get so worked up over legalizing cannabis. Smoking the stuff for recreational purposes is just a mug's game in my view and as for using it therapeutically, far better to use one of the licensed medicinal products (e.g. Sativex) prescribed by a doctor that is properly quality controlled and much safer to use.

The issue is, Sativex is currently only accessible in Wales, my friend who suffers with MS moved there years ago for that reason as it is the only drug that helps his chronic condition. In the UK it is "not a cost-effective treatment" according to the NHS. So you can understand the need for so many people with MS and other diseases to access weed through "dealers" illegally. Otherwise these people will remain in terrible pain.

Not to mention the growing number of people that use cannabis to help them sleep, get through their chemotherapy without the overwhelming side-effects - mainly nausea, and many other problems like social-anxiety etc. Again, it won't help everyone, but I am not concerned with them, I am concerned about the people who need it and don't have access to it. And for what reason? Well, there isn't really any, and never has been.

[Rockysocks]

Originally Posted by Lifeisagame

That is the same as me, in terms of not having any desire to try other drugs. The Weed is a gateway drug myth is pretty much on its ass now anyway, which of course is a good thing. It's BS like that that makes so many people I know think negatively about weed and all it stands for.

I agree that any drug can be abused and be dangerous. And that is why when weed is legalized here in the UK. I want to see strict regulation and sale of weed.

It's a funny one. I am not sure either... I personally don't see the difference between having a glass of wine or a joint other than the legal status of both.

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by pink_wafer

It's a funny one. I am not sure either... I personally don't see the difference between having a glass of wine or a joint other than the legal status of both.

Pretty much. If it we're really all that bad then you wouldn't have so many US states legalizing it. Or countries decriminilizing it etc. But that is it. It is the way some people like to unwind after work as a pose to partaking in binge drinking. That is me anyway.

I'd rather more people had a few joints at the weekend than go out and abuse booze and end up being taken to A&E unconscious. That happened to me once at 18 but I got taken home I was found on the street.

that is how easy it is to abuse booze I could have died. Of course my fault, but it just shows how anyone can near enough kill themselves with booze.

[Marco]

Let***8217;s be clear, smoking anything is bad for you and those around you (secondary smokers) and cigarette smoking will almost certainly become illegal in the UK over the next few decades. So why would the government, having worked so hard over the last thirty or forty years to discourage and reduce cigarette smoking to the huge benefit of the public***8217;s health, legalise the sale of cannabis for recreational toking? Surely the idea is absurd.

However, I take the point that medicinal cannabis (which is not smoked!!) is expensive and currently unavailable to many people who might benefit from its therapeutic properties. I would certainly offer my support in appealing to the powers that be to fund increased research and support for the use of cannabis among genuine sufferers under medical supervision; but it would be a retrograde step if the weed was made freely available from your local corner shop or supermarket. Get real folks!

[Lifeisagame]

Originally Posted by Marco

Let’s be clear, smoking anything is bad for you and cigarette smoking will almost certainly become illegal in the UK over the next few decades. So why would the government, having worked so hard over the last thirty or forty years to discourage and reduce cigarette smoking to the huge benefit of the public’s health, legalise the sale of cannabis for recreational toking? Surely the idea is absurd.

There is no evidence (that I have seen) that finds smoking marijuana alone has any severe implications, unlike cigarettes or death sticks if you will. Again, if people want to smoke marijuana that is their free choice, or should be.

Originally Posted by Marco

However, I take the point that medicinal cannabis (which is not smoked!!) is expensive and currently unavailable to many people who might benefit from its therapeutic properties. I would certainly offer my support in appealing to the powers that be to fund increased research and support for the use of cannabis among genuine sufferers under medical supervision; but it would be a retrograde step if the weed was made freely available from your local corner shop or supermarket. Get real folks!

If someone who has a chronic medical illness such as MS let's say, why shouldn't they be able to "smoke" the weed that helps their pain? It's not like we have any legal alternatives that are more safe. Even so, as an adult I would be happy to keep smoking weed. Some people may prefer to ingest weed or vape but again, as it is not legal these other options are even harder to access.

[Lifeisagame]

No

Originally Posted by Legion

15 second googling. http://oehha.ca.gov/media/downloads/...mjsmokehid.pdf

I will review that info and get back to you :-)

Gotta run.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Marco

Let’s be clear, smoking anything is bad for you and those around you (secondary smokers) and cigarette smoking will almost certainly become illegal in the UK over the next few decades. So why would the government, having worked so hard over the last thirty or forty years to discourage and reduce cigarette smoking to the huge benefit of the public’s health, legalise the sale of cannabis for recreational toking? Surely the idea is absurd.

However, I take the point that medicinal cannabis (which is not smoked!!) is expensive and currently unavailable to many people who might benefit from its therapeutic properties. I would certainly offer my support in appealing to the powers that be to fund increased research and support for the use of cannabis among genuine sufferers under medical supervision; but it would be a retrograde step if the weed was made freely available from your local corner shop or supermarket. Get real folks!

Cannabis doesn't have to be smoked, it can be vaped, taken as an oil that you dissolve under your tongue, as a spray (which is what Sativex is) or used in edibles. (I believe it can also be taken as a suppository, although how popular that method is I do not know!)

[Marco]

Originally Posted by Dougella

Cannabis doesn't have to be smoked, it can be vaped, taken as an oil that you dissolve under your tongue, as a spray (which is what Sativex is) or used in edibles. (I believe it can also be taken as a suppository, although how popular that method is I do not know!)

True, cannabis can be taken in other ways, but I would suggest that the vast majority of recreational cannabis users want it legalised to smoke it.