What's wrong with this picture?

[-Simon-]

I had a fairly good day today.
Got up at a leisurely hour and had a nice breakfast.
Cycled into town listening to some good tunes on my MP3.
Went into the library to do some writing and unexpectedly found there were some performances by folk musicians going on (it's part of the Cheltenham Folk Festival).
Got some writing done and came up with some good ideas while drinking from my thermos of tea in the pleasant surroundings of the library while also dipping in and out of the music performances.
Bought ingredients for stir fry and also some nice beer which I have just consumed.

So why am I not happy? Is the best I can hope for that I be distracted from my glumness for brief periods? I'm not depressed, I'm just not happy.

[artist23]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

I had a fairly good day today.
Got up at a leisurely hour and had a nice breakfast.
Cycled into town listening to some good tunes on my MP3.
Went into the library to do some writing and unexpectedly found there were some performances by folk musicians going on (it's part of the Cheltenham Folk Festival).
Got some writing done and came up with some good ideas while drinking from my thermos of tea in the pleasant surroundings of the library while also dipping in and out of the music performances.
Bought ingredients for stir fry and also some nice beer which I have just consumed.

So why am I not happy? Is the best I can hope for that I be distracted from my glumness for brief periods? I'm not depressed, I'm just not happy.

thats life.

[LonelyOnTheInside]

Sounds like a perfectly happy day doing things you enjoy.....maybe the lack of happinness comes from not sharing it with anyone?

Personally, when I do have a good day where I do things that make me 'happy', I have an urge to share this with someone, anyone. Even though people scare me at times, there's a lot to be said for interaction with them.

I dunno. *shrugs*

[-Simon-]

hmm, i did wonder if it's loneliness. Being around other people makes me less happy though, but it does feel like there's something missing. I have a lot to be thankful for, a fairly decent quality of life and all that but...meh. When I was sitting there listening to this unexpected musical performance thingy it was almost as if something inside of me was insisting on reminding me that, ok, you can enjoy this for a few minutes but remember you're not happy, normal unhappiness can only be suspended for a few minutes. Is that life, does anyone actually enjoy life?

[Billyonastick]

Do you like yourself arbutnot? I have happy days but I dont like myself and need to start doing that.Do you feel the same?If you dont like yourself then no one else will with the bad vibes .

[IAMNC]

Maybe you are expecting too much?
I think I feel the same, where I should be happy but I don't feel it.
I suppose 'fulfilled' is the right word, I don't feel fulfilled perhaps because I expect more than there is.
Its hard to learn to enjoy simple pleasures sometimes.

[ShyDoll]

Were you all tense and stressed at all today?

Even if things go well for me I tense up expecting it to go boobs-up at anytime. Maybe youre feeling a bit stressed and shocked and thats making you feel a bit blue??

[Wol]

Your thoughts.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by Billyonastick

Do you like yourself arbutnot? I have happy days but I dont like myself and need to start doing that.Do you feel the same?If you dont like yourself then no one else will with the bad vibes .

I don't think that's the problem. I don't particularly like myself, and I can easily see why others don't like me, but I'm not consciously hard on myself in a way that I would deliberately prevent myself from being happy.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by IAMNC

Maybe you are expecting too much?
I think I feel the same, where I should be happy but I don't feel it.
I suppose 'fulfilled' is the right word, I don't feel fulfilled perhaps because I expect more than there is.
Its hard to learn to enjoy simple pleasures sometimes.

Yes maybe fulfillment has something to do with it. I do get satisfaction from achieving things but it is only ever fleeting.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by ShyDoll

Were you all tense and stressed at all today?

Even if things go well for me I tense up expecting it to go boobs-up at anytime. Maybe youre feeling a bit stressed and shocked and thats making you feel a bit blue??

No, not at all which got me wondering why I couldn't be happy. It was an absolutely stress-free day, all very pleasant. It was my thinking to myself 'isn't this all very nice?' that let me to wonder what was holding me back from actually being happy.

[Generic]

Hey Arbutnot,

I totally understand what you mean. I've had that feeling of feeling like I'll never be 'happy' and even when I'm doing something I enjoy, having the thoughts that this is only fleeting and when it's over I'll be just as unhappy as I was before. It really sucks.

I had this really bad for about year. I'm not sure if it's part of depression or whatever but I know that it does pass if that's any consolation. I've always been a person to overthink things (I'm guessing most people on these forums are probably the same) and I think it's just an extension of that i.e. Rather than just enjoying the moment I start thinking about other things. I just kept on doing things that made me happy in the short term and trying to stop those thoughts when I could and it seems to have worked pretty well upto now. I can kind of just sit around and be 'content' again, and I hadn't been able to do that for a while.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

I had a fairly good day today.
...

So why am I not happy? Is the best I can hope for that I be distracted from my glumness for brief periods? I'm not depressed, I'm just not happy.

You had a good day but you're not happy.

Either you didn't really have a good day (you had what you think people would consider a good day) or you're over thinking things and your mind has made you feel unfulfilled.

Too much introspection is my guess. I'm not sure what the solution is. Personally I like to get involved with something that makes me forget about myself, like volunteering (I'm not suggesting this for you just giving an example) - as in order to care enough to do the job I have to concentrate on someone else's needs.

This allows me to feel happier doing the things I love - because I feel drained from thinking about other things and can concentrate on enjoying the moment. If I didn't volunteer or work or speak to many people, I'd spend 100% of my time introspecting and churning out thoughts after thoughts about myself, over-analysing my emotions and trying to make up complex ideas in my head. How on earth can you be happy with that state of mind? It just doesn't correlate.

I have to do something, regularly, that makes me forget about myself.

An idea. What do you think arbutnot?

[panoply]

Lack of personal human contact. I know I can have jolly days where i get up on a beautiful morning, go for a jog, do something worth while the rest of the day but at the end of the day ive really just pampered my self and im still not happy, i would be happier if it was with some friends.

[-Simon-]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I think probably it is too much introspection which itself is due to spending too much time alone. I have learned that it's important for me to keep busy and to have goals and i suppose I have to accept that we are all just distracting our minds from the misery that is human existence. I don't just mean we SA types, I think it's what everybody does, albeit unknowingly. Drink, drugs, entertainment, sport - all to occupy our minds with something other than reality.

Although I said I wasn't depressed at the moment, I am prone to bouts of depression which have always struck before with no warning and for no clear reason. Perhaps this is a breakthrough in that I can actually see the depression forming and I can do something to ward it off. Either that or depression is my default state and if I take my eye off the ball and relax for a bit, that is the state I will always revert to - now there's a depressing thought.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

Drink, drugs, entertainment, sport - all to occupy our minds with something other than reality.

Maybe your world view is too cynical - life can be exciting, if you make it. If entertainment, whatever that means to you, makes you happy and healthy, then that is life.

[Bob Garside]

You sound quite dysthymic, which means rather than having this definable, major "Yegads, oh to be dead!"-type depression, there is this milder, more persistent underlying sense of dissatisfaction with things that permeates your existence in a subtle yet extremely debilitating way. I'm similar in the respect that (at present) I'm not *actually* depressed, but dysthymia is making its presence felt quite noticeably right now, and it's a right bugger.

I mean, I'm off work for a second week and to be quite truthful, I cannot wait to get back to work!

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

Maybe your world view is too cynical - life can be exciting, if you make it. If entertainment, whatever that means to you, makes you happy and healthy, then that is life.

Yes I guess I am a bit cynical by nature but I don't think that's what makes me unhappy, though I could well be wrong. I don't like the idea of having to deny cynicism in order to enjoy life, it would be kind of like I was fooling myself. I do get some pleasure from entertainment and other distractions but it's like I have something inside me telling me that the enjoyment I'm experiencing is not real, or can only ever be fleeting, and that behind it all will always be the unbearable shiteness of being. Maybe I should just lighten up.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by Bob Garside

You sound quite dysthymic, which means rather than having this definable, major "Yegads, oh to be dead!"-type depression, there is this milder, more persistent underlying sense of dissatisfaction with things that permeates your existence in a subtle yet extremely debilitating way. I'm similar in the respect that (at present) I'm not *actually* depressed, but dysthymia is making its presence felt quite noticeably right now, and it's a right bugger.

I mean, I'm off work for a second week and to be quite truthful, I cannot wait to get back to work!

Ha, I had to look that one up but it does sound familiar. It feels like quite a minor thing to be complaining about and I suppose I'll be 'happy' if I maintain this level without plunging into full-blown depression. I've heard that some people experience a similar thing to what you describe after the reality of retirement sets in. I've often wondered if people who live a more 'hand to mouth' existence can afford the 'luxury' of depression.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by Gentle Lioness

Hi arbutnot, I found an interesting website pursuit-of-happiness.org,
The link to the article about Science of happiness gives a list of 7 strategies
1. Communicating
2. Caring
3. Excercise
4. Getting in the flow
5. Spiritual Engagement
6. Cultivating strengths and virtues
7. Positive thinking, optimism, savouring and gratitude.

When my first two children were little I was very happy and fulfilled despite any anxieties or problems. Years later I had my third child and it was like how you descibed your day , he was gorgeous and healthy and I felt blessed but just not
as joyful and it was I think because I was missing my dad who had been the person I most loved taking them to see as
he was warm and funny and great with them.

When my third child was born, my dad was no longer alive, and my husband was working long hours or out with friends, and my only female friend had moved to a new town.
So it just wasn't as happy an experience of motherhood as it was first time around.
I was grieving and probably postnatal depression too though.
I feel happy again now it came by surprise I was walking my son to nursery and he was so excited about going and I was pointing out the aeroplane in the sky to him and a little Ginger cat and just enjoying that little walk together, with the knowledge that this is a precious time in his life as soon he'll be older, and I thought - I'm happy and enjoying life again.
Maybe my son's happiness at little things was infectious.

Nice to hear you got your mojo back. Did you notice yourself being happy and that sensation enhanced your enjoyment of the simple pleasures, or was it that you were taking these things in and you realised you were happy? I think in my case I have to actually be happy, or open to the idea of happiness, before such little things will give me pleasure. As i say, I'm not particularly depressed or even unhappy and so I'm not really complaining, but there just seems to be something missing that's preventing me from taking pleasure in things for more than a brief moment.

[GoldFish]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

I had a fairly good day today.
Got up at a leisurely hour and had a nice breakfast.
Cycled into town listening to some good tunes on my MP3.
Went into the library to do some writing and unexpectedly found there were some performances by folk musicians going on (it's part of the Cheltenham Folk Festival).
Got some writing done and came up with some good ideas while drinking from my thermos of tea in the pleasant surroundings of the library while also dipping in and out of the music performances.
Bought ingredients for stir fry and also some nice beer which I have just consumed.

So why am I not happy? Is the best I can hope for that I be distracted from my glumness for brief periods? I'm not depressed, I'm just not happy.

well i wanted to ask you if you find riding your bike in public difficult? because at the moment my SA is stopping me from going to the gym and riding my bike because i fear being seen exercising in front of people in cars especially in peak hour, so i suppose i still have some fairly bad issues to deal with. what you describe is what i'd like to aim for.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

I don't like the idea of having to deny cynicism in order to enjoy life, it would be kind of like I was fooling myself.

I know exactly what you mean. It's taken me about 5 years of actively thinking 'shut up stupid brain!' to get over that feeling.

[Mr. Nobody]

I was wondering if this feeling is SA - related or just a general malaise of the human condition, so many people look listless.
I feel that unless we stake our feelings / ourselves, then we get nothing back, i.e. no juice, or no feeling of aliveness.
I feel that I am often holding back, especially in social conditions,
I am always doing what I THINK is expected of me in that situation, maybe we all need to be a little bit more crazy,.....what if, when the music started at the library you then joined in by doing an expressive dance to the music,....I'm joking obviously, but that would have been memorable,..a little crazy, embarressing,..pure hell for someone with SA, but in a matter of years we will all be gone, (worm food )....I've been to so many concerts where I've really wished I could have had the guts to really dance but held back because of what someone may have thought of me, and I wonder if this socially anxious / overly mannered pattern of society is what is perhaps making people feel they are missing gusto / juice, aliveness etc.
perhaps human beings are essentially a little crazy at heart, and we have forgone that at the sake of social etiquette,
but the outcome is a kind of dreamlike existence, a kind of second-hand experience of life, as if this isn't really life somehow
as usual it's easier said than done,..I find it easier to be a little crazy and expressive around children, they love going nuts !
what struck me about your post was that on paper it sounded like a good day, but unless you had staked something, unless you had something to lose, it may not have taxed you in any way,..that's not a negative judgement by the way, my " good days " come close to that also, I too feel as you do.
I do things that look good or sound good on paper, but I'm always playing it safe, and I too come home and feel like "WTF,..did I go out or not ? I feel the same"

[peterjohn]

Originally Posted by arbutnot

Thanks for your replies everyone. I think probably it is too much introspection which itself is due to spending too much time alone. I have learned that it's important for me to keep busy and to have goals and i suppose I have to accept that we are all just distracting our minds from the misery that is human existence. I don't just mean we SA types, I think it's what everybody does, albeit unknowingly. Drink, drugs, entertainment, sport - all to occupy our minds with something other than reality.

Although I said I wasn't depressed at the moment, I am prone to bouts of depression which have always struck before with no warning and for no clear reason. Perhaps this is a breakthrough in that I can actually see the depression forming and I can do something to ward it off. Either that or depression is my default state and if I take my eye off the ball and relax for a bit, that is the state I will always revert to - now there's a depressing thought.

How come you have decided that we all just distracting our minds from the misery of human existence. That being your perception of life must surely leave you prone to depression. It's not a statement that I would apply to myself now, or to many people I know. One of my friends, who is 79 and finds managing life increasingly difficult tells people that he still enjoys life.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by GoldFish

well i wanted to ask you if you find riding your bike in public difficult? because at the moment my SA is stopping me from going to the gym and riding my bike because i fear being seen exercising in front of people in cars especially in peak hour, so i suppose i still have some fairly bad issues to deal with. what you describe is what i'd like to aim for.

Not really, once I get going I feel quite anonymous riding through town. Leaving the house is the worst part, particularly in this weather when I have to put on gloves and hat. I enjoy walking in the countryside and swimming but haven't done either for ages because of feeling too self-conscious, but cycling is just a means of getting from a to b so not something that draws attention. I know nobody's paying any attention to what I do but I still find it difficult.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by jerry302199

I was wondering if this feeling is SA - related or just a general malaise of the human condition, so many people look listless.
I feel that unless we stake our feelings / ourselves, then we get nothing back, i.e. no juice, or no feeling of aliveness.
I feel that I am often holding back, especially in social conditions,
I am always doing what I THINK is expected of me in that situation, maybe we all need to be a little bit more crazy,.....what if, when the music started at the library you then joined in by doing an expressive dance to the music,....I'm joking obviously, but that would have been memorable,..a little crazy, embarressing,..pure hell for someone with SA, but in a matter of years we will all be gone, (worm food )....I've been to so many concerts where I've really wished I could have had the guts to really dance but held back because of what someone may have thought of me, and I wonder if this socially anxious / overly mannered pattern of society is what is perhaps making people feel they are missing gusto / juice, aliveness etc.
perhaps human beings are essentially a little crazy at heart, and we have forgone that at the sake of social etiquette,
but the outcome is a kind of dreamlike existence, a kind of second-hand experience of life, as if this isn't really life somehow
as usual it's easier said than done,..I find it easier to be a little crazy and expressive around children, they love going nuts !
what struck me about your post was that on paper it sounded like a good day, but unless you had staked something, unless you had something to lose, it may not have taxed you in any way,..that's not a negative judgement by the way, my " good days " come close to that also, I too feel as you do.
I do things that look good or sound good on paper, but I'm always playing it safe, and I too come home and feel like "WTF,..did I go out or not ? I feel the same"

Some very interesting points there. There have been occassions when I have thrown caution to the wind and danced like a fool, when at festivals where nobody knows me and/or when drunk, and it certainly makes the experience feel less 'second hand'. I agree also that if something comes too easilly it is less enjoyable and so some element of risk or sense of achievement is very important. I think it's that latter point that detracted from my enjoyment on this occassion, the things which might otherwise have given me pleasure had just happened, fallen into my lap without much effort on my part.
I think I mentioned earlier that i have become aware of the need to set myself goals and challenges and i had also questioned whether people whose lives were more of a struggle and a hand-to-mouth existence had the luxury of depression. While I would prefer the risk of depression over the challenge of wondering where my next meal was coming from, I think the disatisfaction I experience comes from that lack of a sense of achievement one gets from overcoming obstacles and challenges.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by peterjohn

How come you have decided that we all just distracting our minds from the misery of human existence. That being your perception of life must surely leave you prone to depression. It's not a statement that I would apply to myself now, or to many people I know. One of my friends, who is 79 and finds managing life increasingly difficult tells people that he still enjoys life.

I don't know that it's something I've definitely decided, I'm still trying to work out what's going on. In fact I'm now coming around to the idea that it's tackling the challenges of human existence, rather than the distractions from it, which ultimately bring satisfaction and happiness.

[-Simon-]

Originally Posted by Gentle Lioness

It was the latter I think arbutnot. On the website I looked at it described activities as high flow or low flow. Listening to music and tv give fleeting enjoyment
'High flow activity requires skill and concentration - an activity or long term goal you see as voluntary, enjoyable(intrinsically motivating) and it must require skill and be challenging ( but not too challenging) with clear goals towards success. You must feel as though you have control and receive immediate feedback with room for growth.
A flow state is characterised by lack of emotion and loss of selfconciousness as you are concentrating and engrossed in the activity but in hindsight the activity can be seen as enjoyable or exhilarating.

I think I understand that and it's pretty much how I see it now, thanks to yours and other replies here.

[Winnie57]

At least you are doing things you want to do which is not possible for a lot of people. Happiness if it comes will be a bonus. For many people happiness is only possible with interaction with other people. This has been said earlier in the thread but just wanted to reiterate it. If you do a lot of things on your own when you have pleasant company the happiness will be magnified. It would have to be someone you gel with though. Forgive nonsense. I write rubbish when I'm tired.

[Aᴄᴇ]

Maybe because what you really want is to be with other people, deep down.