ESA Suspended After Missing ATOS Appointment

jenny4 · #1 21st July 2014, 12:45

Hi all,

I'm hoping to get some advice, but first of all, a bit of background info...

On the mental health side, I suffer with severe SA, GAD and fluctuating depression which can also get severe in times of stress. I also struggle with ADHD and have Dyspraxia (although I've never received help with the latter, and really don't know how much it affects me). The ADHD causes a lot of problems with my memory and ability to organise and deal with things. Last year I found out I have Hemochromatosis, which is a genetic liver disorder where a person can't metabolise iron at all, so it builds up to dangerous levels and is life-threatening if left untreated. Mine was discovered hopefully in time before any organ damage occurred, but my iron level was still 8 X the healthy limit. The treatment is weekly venesection (1 pint of blood removal) until the iron is down to a normal level, then less frequent venesections for life. I'm still on the weekly venesections at present, and have a fair way to go before I can go on to the less frequent venesections. It leaves me very tired from losing all the red blood cells so often.

I'm claiming ESA and have had two ATOS appointments so far. The first one couldn't be completed because the assessor became aware of my Dyspraxia diagnosis and had to terminate the interview, so I had to wait for another appointment to see one of their doctors. The second one was on the day of my venesection and I had to drag myself there by bus straight after and was feeling really unwell. After about ten minutes of waiting, the receptionist called me over to inform me their doctor had called in sick so they had to reschedule! He told me they had tried to contact me by phone, but I received no phone call. It is possible they have an old number or something but whenever I call the Jobcentre, I always have to give my current mobile number to pass security so why ATOS didn't call me on that I don't know. The 3rd appointment came through and was set for last month and this is where I've got into a mess. I started trauma therapy for PTS at the beginning of June to treat some of the underlying causes to some of my anxiety. Back in 2004 and 2005, I was the victim of 2 robberies at an off licence I worked at. The first one was armed (with a knife), but I was working with someone else at the time and it was over in minutes. He took the money out of the till and left. It was scary of course, but I managed to move on with it and even went into work the next day as I didn't want to let it ruin my job. The next robbery happened at a similar time the next year, however this time I was working alone in the back room when two men with balaclavas came in. They were trying to grab hold of me but I managed to escape and run upstairs to the flat where I lived (I'd just moved into it with my boyfriend after getting the manager's position at the shop). This robbery left me very scared and the anxiety and PTS has stayed with me ever since. So back to the therapy last month... I was finding it very difficult as I've not allowed myself to think at length about all the details of what went on back then. The therapy was about forcing yourself to 'go back there' in your mind and inevitably, at first it causes even higher levels of anxiety than you already have. I was also finding going to the sessions really hard as being with strangers and all the interaction that goes with it is very stressful as I'm sure you all understand suffering with SA. So what with all this going on, plus the dreaded venesections, I forgot my ATOS appointment. I sent them my reasons, but not on the original form they'd sent me as I'd misplaced it, so I sent them in with my medical certificate. Unfortunately, it seems they didn't receive them in time and sent me another letter telling me I was no longer eligible for ESA due to failure to provide reasons for missing the appointment. I then called them and gave my reasons over the phone. About a week later (today in fact) I received another letter stating that they had not changed their decision and my file has now been passed to 'Perrybarr' whoever that is? It will be looked at by someone else and I will be notified of the outcome in due course.

Well obviously I'm in a real panic about this and need some advice on what I should do. Is there anything I could be doing right now before there is a final decision? I hear if it's refused the only option is to appeal and claim JSA in the mean time, but how can I sign to say I'm fit for work when I'm not? If I don't have any money coming in, I can't pay my Mum her board and she won't be able to cover the bills so this won't just affect me. When I moved into my Mum's she had to go on a higher rate of Council Tax and her Housing Benefit was cut so I need to make up the difference for her to be able to cover it and for us to buy food.

This was an honest mistake of mine, and I think given the circumstances, it's really harsh of ATOS. I had to stop therapy as I wasn't able to cope with that, plus the medical and ATOS problems all at the same time.

If you've got this far, thank you for reading. Can I please ask for any advice?

Thanks,

Jenny.

TimB · #2 21st July 2014, 14:11

I think you need to see citizens advice, or your welfare officer, and see what they suggest - they will be used to people in your situation. Both have helped me out in the past.

jenny4 · #3 21st July 2014, 14:45

Thanks for replying TimB,

I've just sent a lengthy email 'MIND', but the automated response says it can take up to 14 days for a response, and I can't wait that long as I won't be able to afford to pay towards the next lot of bills when they're due in a couple of weeks.

I was planning on contacting the CAB if the 'final' decision goes against me, but it might be better to contact them now. I really struggle with phone calls and giving details over the phone, especially in this case, as there is so much info. I will have to find a way to force myself somehow.

mossieman · #4 21st July 2014, 15:06

As well as 'MIND' you have 'SANE' and 'RETHINK' you could try. I think CAB would be your best bet though and I would try to contact them ASAP if you can.
ATOS will not rush anything for you, they don't care or give a s**t how bad things are for you.

Good luck

TimB · #5 21st July 2014, 15:14

I hate making phone calls either, struggle to explain myself properly, but I think you need to be brave and call CAB as soon as you can given your circumstances - though you may have to make an appointment to see them in person. They can contact DWP/ATOS on your behalf if you explain you have difficulties, so its worth getting them involved. If you explain your financial difficulties then they might be able to help with that as well.

BennyB · #6 21st July 2014, 18:33

Hi Jenny4

I do feel for you, the situation sounds really stressful, how people with serious illnesses can be treated like that is a disgrace. Sorry I can't give better practical advice - I'm sure others on the forum will be able to give you a nudge in the right direction to start the appeals process. I find it upsetting how this country is getting more like America everyday with regards compassion and dignity for it's most vulnerable people

Try your best to keep positive and good luck with the appeal

BennyB

Belinda · #7 21st July 2014, 21:16

Really sorry to hear this, Jenny- Atos are not to be trusted with this sort of thing. Like everyone else says, I think the CAB should be able to help and the forum I've linked below may be worth a look as they answer questions about problems with ESA and Atos.

http://thefullfacts.com/esa/forum/

Caribou · #8 22nd July 2014, 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny4

About a week later (today in fact) I received another letter stating that they had not changed their decision and my file has now been passed to 'Perrybarr' whoever that is?

There is a benefits dispute resolution team based at Perry Barr, Birmingham.

Perry Barr Social Security Office
307 Walsall Road
Perry Barr
Birmingham
B42 1TZ
Telephone: 0845 604 3719

Lifebuoy · #9 22nd July 2014, 19:46

Jenny, if you get flustered on the phone it can obviously be difficult to communicate clearly, especially if the issue is complex. It definitely pays to write out the essential points that you need to communicate, so that you just have to (slowly) read them out. Obviously keep it all very simple, so don't include background information that isn't really relevant. If the person at the other end gets swamped with confusing details, s/he is likely to switch-off and lose interest in helping you.

I suspect that Atos operate with standard procedures. If you fail to do 'A', then 'B' will automatically happen. It's a sort of maximum efficiency, zero-tolerance thing. You are obviously expected to do everything they require of you... including remembering appointments. So if you have a problem with remembering stuff, you need to be highly organised in your personal management. So you may need to write out a daily appointments diary... 'Monday 0930 do 'X'. 11.15 telephone so-and-so. 4pm leave for meeting at 'Z'. 4.30pm report at Reception'.

I also find it useful to set the alarm on my watch to make sure I don't lose track of time and miss something that I'm scheduled to do.

Hermecto · #10 22nd July 2014, 19:52

Contact CAB

jenny4 · #11 30th July 2014, 03:12

Thank you all for your helpful advice and support, it's all very much appreciated. :-)

I received my third and final letter, this time from the decision makers at Perry Barr - thanks Talbot for the translation - the letter was typed "Perrybarr"! The final decision was not to revise the previous decision, and in the letter I received last Saturday, I finally found out the true details in which this decision was based upon, and I can't believe the mistakes they've made...

I hold my hands up to missing the last appointment, but as mentioned in my OP, it was an incredibly stressful time, and when you're out of your mind with fear, even a looming ATOS appointment isn't enough to distract you, and that's how bad I was feeling. I haven't missed ANY previous appointments or done anything else wrong. Well it turns out they have based their decision partly on me not making any attempt to contact them before I realised my benefits had stopped which is completely untrue. I tried to send my reasons over to them well before, but my paperwork has never been received (apparently). I have made numerous phone calls to chase this paperwork up and tried to speak to people about the situation, but most of these calls have been logged as them calling me, I think because the only way to speak to anyone is by the jobcentre arranging a call back. None of the calls I've made have been noted by the decision makers as efforts on my behalf to sort the situation out. They have stated they made 3 more phone calls than the ones I actually received, and said they left a detailed message asking me to "call them back urgently" (my mobile phone call log is proof that I never received these calls). The two calls I did get were in minutes of eachother when I was in the shower and couldn't answer. I called back the number straight away but it was an 0800 number and all I got was a recorded message saying someone from the DWP had called. When I checked my voicemail, they had left a message, but only to say the call was in connection with my reconsideration for ESA... no number to call back on, no name, no "we need to speak to you urgently"! One of the numbers they tried calling me on, as the letter states, isn't even mine! It was similar to my old landline, but incorrect by 2 digits. And anyway, they shouldn't trying to ring me on a number I've already told them is no longer mine, and I certainly shouldn't be blamed for their mistakes. The decision letter also states I have missed 2 ATOS appointments! So they have put one of the reasons for their decision down as "a pattern of avoidance"! Well I called ATOS to check that they definitely had logged my 2nd appointment as their cancellation and not mine (their doctor was off sick), and they have confirmed this, so yet another mistake! They have made out that all the calls I made to them trying to sort the situation out, ie; when you call the jobcentre and they arrange a call back, were initiated by them. There was no mention of ANY of the efforts I made!

So there it is. I called the jobcentre on the Monday after receiving the letter (yet another wait for a call back) only to be told that once the final decision has been made, the only option is to take it to a tribunal, even though on the most part, their decision is based on inaccuracies. So due to their incompetence, it's going to cost the benefit system, the CAB and the courts far more than if I'd continued to receive benefits. And I daren't even think about how I'll cope with a face to face tribunal.

Oh, and apparently they never received my very first ESA form I sent either! It's the one where you give details about your condition and how it affects you... well I spent hours on that! And my Mum remembers me filling it out too... I would advise that when you send any information to them to ring and make sure it was received, but on the other hand, it seems even when you make all the checks things still aren't logged correctly no matter how hard you try to keep on top of things.

I have an appointment with the CAB on Friday morning anyway... I hope they can help!

BennyB · #12 30th July 2014, 07:08

It sounds like yet another total shambles - ATOS have consistently proven themselves not fit for purpose.

Good luck with sorting this out and getting what you're entitled to.

mossieman · #13 30th July 2014, 07:21

Going on my previous experience CAB hate ATOS as much as we do so they will pull out all the stops for you

. You should also pass on the problems and errors made to the main mental health charities (SANE, MIND, RETHINK). One draft letter should do the job sent to all, they might be able to help but also they need all the information they can get about how we are treated to help them to fight our corner

.
Good luck, I really hope you stick it to them good and proper

TimB · #14 30th July 2014, 10:29

Glad you have an appointment with CAB, they will help you fight this - even if it does go to a tribunal, it will be worth all the stress and effort.

яemus · #15 30th July 2014, 10:45

I too have a physical condition as well as a mental one, had a few ATOS assessments (at home with a recording device!). I found a good group on Facebook for advice "ATOS miracles".

Akira · #16 30th July 2014, 11:22

Welfare Rights are your best bet. It's best not to leave it too long as the sooner you contact them the sooner they can get to work. They've helped me with my ESA and tribunal in the past.

Belinda · #17 30th July 2014, 20:59

Good luck, Jenny. As Akira says, I'd recommend contacting your local council and asking to speak to their Welfare Rights team as well as the CAB as they are usually really helpful. Unfortunately, Atos do this sort of thing all the time- both me and my partner have had to attend tribunals because of Atos errors but we both won. The tribunal judges I've seen have been really sympathetic so it isn't anywhere near as bad as you'd think.

It's pretty shocking the way Atos and the DWP operate at the moment- they just want to get people off ESA at all costs. I think as anyone working in welfare rights will be aware of this, they should be able to help you put your case together. In your case it looks pretty clear cut and I'm sure you will win, though of course you shouldn't be having to go through all this at all.

MissyP. · #18 30th July 2014, 22:02

Any paperwork you send off, make sure you have photocopies as evidence.
For the phone calls you made, are they on any bill to prove that you have rang them?

ATOS are really bad, they suspended someone's benefits for not going to an appointment, the person was in a wheelchair and they couldn't get up the stairs as no lift was there. Total shambles and its not fair on people, especially since there are a lot of inaccuracies on their behalf.

I hope you sort everything out.

Caribou · #19 31st July 2014, 02:23

It's disgusting that people who struggle with mental health problems are being put through this kind of stressful fiasco.

Don't give up, Jenny - I'm sure you'll get the outcome you need with the right help.

jenny4 · #20 2nd August 2014, 00:19

Hey everyone...

Thank you all so much for your helpful advice and kind support. It feels like a lonely place when you're going through this, although I know many (far too many) are either going through or have been through this themselves.

I had my appointment with the CAB this morning. The advice was either to go to tribunal or start a new claim for ESA and save the stress and anxiety of the tribunal. That was about it. I said I'd go away and think about it, and the advisor said they would help me with the paperwork if I opted for the tribunal route. I got home and wanted to explore my options a bit more as I didn't feel I'd got enough advice about them. I remembered Akira and Belinda (thank you :-)) had mentioned Welfare Advice, so I gave them a call. The advisor there was extremely helpful, although my anxiety got the better of me at times... I find it VERY hard to be open about how bad my anxiety can get, and he (rightfully) questioned me in quite some detail about this. I actually broke down on the phone (embarrassingly), but I guess in the process, I was able to express just how bad things get. The problem I have, is that I've developed a kind of coping mechanism, where on the outside, it can seem like there's nothing wrong. I suppose it's like a shell, and in cases like this, it works against me as I can come out with statements like "The ATOS appointment slipped my mind" instead of, "I was feeling at rock bottom, desperate and couldn't leave my house because of the fear and anxiety that had worsened through the trauma therapy. I get his point and now massively regret that choice of words! But having SA is such a damned hard disorder for people who don't have it, to understand... you're more often than not being told to "pull yourself together", "you're lazy" "You've got to get your life sorted out"... etc. It's like a lifetime's worth of put downs, blame and not feeling good enough, so the natural thing to do (for me anyway) is to try and act like nothing's wrong. Out of all my conditions, SA is the worst and most debilitating because you're constantly being judged and this just feeds the demon. I'd replace it with another visible illness any day.

Anyway, the welfare advisor was very helpful, and although I felt a bit paranoid at times, because of all the questioning, he advised I could make a claim for ESA AND take my existing claim to tribunal at the same time. Previously, I'd been under the impression (and been told by a job centre advisor) I could only claim JSA if I took my ESA claim to the tribunal. Just to clarify, you CAN make a claim for ESA and go to tribunal at the same time if your symptoms have worsened after your benefits have been stopped. The welfare advisor kindly completed the relevant forms with me over the phone, and is sending me a copy to sign and send on to the relevant department. Meanwhile I'll also be starting the tribunal process.

This is an appeal against the DWP's decision, not ATOS (although I share your views on them!) as they are the one who have made the mistakes in this case. I haven't yet had a full ATOS medical as the first one was terminated because the assessor wasn't qualified to assess Dyspraxia, and the second because their doctor called in sick. Most tribunals I've read about are to appeal against medicals by ATOS, so I feel a bit lonely on this one and can't find any other examples of this kind of appeal based on mistakes and unfair judgement by the DWP. It's all very scary stuff. I'm shattered but my mind is whirring like a clunky old disk drive on its last legs.

So this is me shutting down, but the lights are still flashing and I'll keep the updates coming.

Thanks again for all your support :-)

PS: Had a mini heart attack then when I got the auto log out before sending my reply... luckily managed to copy my text just in time... can something be done about that??!!

mossieman · #21 2nd August 2014, 01:57

Yes I agree I've had auto log out when doing a big post before, lost it a few times too

.
Good luck will be keeping my fingers crossed for you

Caribou · #22 3rd August 2014, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossieman

Yes I agree I've had auto log out when doing a big post before, lost it a few times too

.

I don't understand why you're having this auto log out thing. Are you ticking the 'Remember Me' box when you log in?

jenny4 · #23 3rd August 2014, 01:50

Yes, Talbot... it happens when I type long posts so it must be when there's a certain period of inactivity.

Caribou · #24 3rd August 2014, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny4

Yes, Talbot... it happens when I type long posts so it must be when there's a certain period of inactivity.

Ooh right. Dunno then

lookup86 · #25 3rd August 2014, 02:49

I think you will pass the tribunal.

jenny4 · #26 3rd August 2014, 03:41

Talbot, I just got the auto log out thingie again, and when I checked the 'remember me' box, it wasn't ticked afterall! Sorry to confuse, I've ticked it now so hopefully that will solve the problem. Thanks!

jenny4 · #27 3rd August 2014, 03:47

Thanks lookup86, I hope so. I was in a real state about it last night and ready to call it off, but i feel a little better about it today. I'm going to call Mind's advice line on Monday to see if I can find a legal advocate who can attend the tribunal with me. I'm terrified about being left to explain everything on my own!

lookup86 · #28 3rd August 2014, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny4

Thanks lookup86, I hope so. I was in a real state about it last night and ready to call it off, but i feel a little better about it today. I'm going to call Mind's advice line on Monday to see if I can find a legal advocate who can attend the tribunal with me. I'm terrified about being left to explain everything on my own!

I failed mine the first time, I then got a letter from my doctor and passed. Don't give up/ I believe you have the right to this. Though this is where the mental health services come in. I was given a letter by my psychologist and they have me 18 months of esa. Also had the option of taking a CPN with me if I needed him at the assessment.

Caribou · #29 3rd August 2014, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny4

Talbot, I just got the auto log out thingie again, and when I checked the 'remember me' box, it wasn't ticked afterall! Sorry to confuse, I've ticked it now so hopefully that will solve the problem. Thanks!

Ah, cool

jenny4 · #30 3rd August 2014, 23:41

I'm glad you were able to persist with your case, lookup86, it can't have been easy for you so it's great you had the outcome you wanted in the end. Can I ask what a CPN is? I'm not in therapy at the moment, and don't have much backing from the doctor either... it's not a very good practice where I live unfortunately. The last doctor I saw for example, said "we can't keep writing sick notes you know, it makes it very difficult for us". So that's another major worry... I'll be completely screwed if I lose their backing on top of everything. It's all looking very bleak, and I'm losing the ability to stay positive.