The physical v the mental

[Zayed]

I was watching ‘I’m a celebrity get me….a record/presenting deal’ earlier; I haven’t watched it since the first series, but I must admit I am quite interested in the psychology of Carol Thatcher.

Aaanyway, I was enjoying watching the challenges and thinking to myself 'Shit, I would be so scared to jump out of a plane, but if I did it, maybe my SA would lessen in some way?'

This follows on from getting my PADI open water in December last year, when living abroad. I’d started it with a girlfriend of mine a few months prior to this, but due to work commitments ( and shopping being more important) etc we kinda gave up.

However, days before I was due to come back to the UK, I thought, shit I really must finish my PADI. None of my girlfriends were free, so I did it in double-quick time with two random blokes. It was really hard work as we had zero visibility as it was just before the tsunami hit and the weather was completely incongruous for the Middle East.

Anyway, I don’t want to over-emphasise the difficulty (well I do a bit - but it wasn’t that hard really), but after I passed, I was on a real high, a kind of ‘oh if I can do that I can do anything’ mentality, it only lasted a couple of months, but it was relatively ‘tangible’ at the time.

I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing, or has ever thought on the same lines as me (or something totally opposite) in that facing a physical fear would help get things in perspective re SA.

[incommunicado]

Caught the bit where they were jumping:

Originally Posted by Zayed

'Shit, I would be so scared to jump out of a plane, but if I did it, maybe my SA would lessen in some way?'

Did this (static line on own) long time ago when shrink said fear was the problem. This fear is logical and easily overcome to the point that i was relaxed compared with the others till i landed and then had a panic in the clubhouse! Left me more confused and frustrated, shrink didn't understand, some sa'ers i've told don't either. Anything like this is good for confidence though.

Toughest physical thing i've done was my first marathon, 'running is in the head' i was told at the time.

[Jessie Phillips]

I also used to halfheartedly toy with the idea that contracting a life-threatening illness or having a close family member die would cure me of it.

Hmm, that's interesting. The nearest thing I've ever had to a life-threatening illness is being hooked on stimulants, feeling as though I couldn't cope without it, and being worried about the fact that I was taking more and more, and that one day I might die of an accidental overdose - and yet still taking the stuff anyway.

I felt that if I could beat that - then I would become much more confident. And I'm pleased to say that's what has happened - I am more confident.

But only to a point. Now I worry that people won't trust me because I've got a history of drugs. My point is, like Tess Walsh's driving test, the SA is better, but it hasn't gone away completely.

[Zayed]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Caught the bit where they were jumping:



Did this (static line on own) long time ago when shrink said fear was the problem. This fear is logical and easily overcome to the point that i was relaxed compared with the others till i landed and then had a panic in the clubhouse!

Ha ha!! Sorry that made me laugh. That's probably what would happen if I did it! Hmm it's interesting though that you were not fearful in the plane; the difference I think with me, is that I would be scared before I jumped - I don't think I could overcome that fear - I would just have to adopt a 'get on with it' mindset - and maybe I could translate said 'getting on with it' mentality to my SA. I'm not sure, but maybe it's worth giving it a go.

Yeah Tess, of course passing your driving test counts! Fear is all relative.

It was very interesting what you said about 'contracting a life-threatening illness/family member dying'. I've never had a very close family member die, however, when my parents got divorced (horrific as it was) my SA seemed to do a disappearing act for a while. There was just so much to sort out/support needed that the my little SA monster fell off his bike.

However, once the whole ordeal was 'over' my SA returned and I was left with SA and divorced parents (which is/was horrible for the whole family). So I understand totally what you are saying in theory; but in practice, as I found out, the reprieve was only temporary.

But as Jessie agreed with, maybe the 'life-threatening illness' would perhaps make one stronger; as it would only really directly affect oneself and would be a personal battle that as well as being mentally/physically difficult to overcome, would maybe also help to put SA into perspective.

[Admiral Fool]

i believe fear is an internal mechanism rather than something that can be controlled externally, you can overcome a fear of a certain thing but that isnt neccasirily the same as controlling fear itself, i find that often its jsut the situations or the problems it presents change without it ever being eradicated...hm, what a downer, what i mean is that you can overcome certain problems but often alls that happens is you are presented with another set of challenges which you then have to overcome....i guess what i think it comes down to then is how you percieve those obstacles and whether you can allow any fear you may have to spur you on rather than hold you back.....huh,i think ive jsut tarted up what other people were saying but i felt like increasing my post count and sounding like i know what im talking about for a change....

[OldBailey]

I used to be really scared of heights and decided that if I could conquer that fear then it might help me face SA fear. So I started by sitting with my legs dangling off a nearby bridge. Near the side where it wasn't so high at first; then moving slowly towards the middle. I managed to do it.

Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to do the same with SA. I'm not sure what the difference is. Maybe it's because when I was sitting on the bridge it was OK to be paralysed with fear. In social situations it's much more uncomfortable to be sitting there looking scared and not saying anything.

[diplodocus]

I used to get into scrapes at school mostly due to being bullied. I took up martial arts but still the fear of actually getting into a fight remained as strong as ever.
Then I discovered a martial arts author (Geoff Thompson) who had worked for many years as a doorman and had used psychology to study the effect of fear or as he more accurately described it adrenaline. One of the concepts that he described to overcome your fears was constructing your own 'fear pyramid'.

Its an exercise where you list all the things that you fear starting from the least scary and gradually working right up to your ulitmate fear. From that I worked out that what I was probably most afraid of was being in a fight. And below that was probably competing in a organised competitive combat sport. So then I decided to take up Boxing. After training for 3 years or so I entered my first match. It was the most nerve wracking gut wrenching fear I had ever experienced but couldn't get away from. I lost but I gained so much from that.
A few years on and I have had a quite a few more matches and though I still feel uncomfortable before a match it is nowhere near as strong a feeling. Now I would even say that I am no longer afraid, more just a healthy dose of nerves.

I was a member of the terroritorial army and got sent to Iraq at the beginning of the second Gulf War. This was frightening. The one very scary event I remember when I thought I might actually die was when our convoy was told that an incoming Scud missle had been fired in our direction. We all leapt out of our transports and dug 'shell scrapes'. These were 3 foot deep holes big enough for two people to lie in and hope that you didn't suffer a direct hit. I have never dug so fast in my life. The scud did land on another unit some miles away from our position but the whole reality of being in a war really hit home at that point.

Exposing myself to extreme adrenaline inducing situations has helped alot and I have used it to push myself forward against my hardest task to date which is SA.

My fear pyramid has changed somewhat over the years and I'd put chatting up an attractive female at near the top of my pyramid. Presentations and public speaking are high up there. As is conversation with strangers. One thing I have noticed is that though coping with specific fears goes someway to reducing general levels of fear, specific fears are best dealt with by actually doing something as closely related to them as possible. For example most 'normal' people are petrified of fighting but find my SA issues trivial by comparison.

But being a generally less fearful person can only be a good thing and using memories of past successes helps to give you motivation to overcome existing fears.

*Just thought of something in relation to what OldBailey said about fear in social situations not being the same. It occured to me that adrenaline is useful in 'phsyically' demanding life threatening situations (sitting on a bridge or jumping out of a plane) but in social situation we don't need it, it can have quite the opposite effect. The fear in a social setting isn't (normally) life threatening, so the physical enhancements caused by adrenaline aren't nearly so useful. Faster reactions, dulled sensation to pain, increased strength e.t.c. The mental effects that we require, tunnel vision, switching to primitive brain functions are not nearly so useful! The fight or flight response has no outlet so we just freeze.

[Zayed]

Blimey deeshow - very interesting.

I'ld like to ask you a few questions on this one later.

[Jessie Phillips]

I take deeshow's point about social situations not being life threatening - but on the other hand, if your thoughts are "I'm lonely, I've been on my own for years, therefore I have to give this chance to make friends my best shot, or my life won't be worth living" - then it becomes much more similar to a genuinely life threatening situation, and the adrenalin starts pumping in much the same way, albeit maybe to a lesser extent.

Another complicating factor is the self-blame you go through after social contact, because you think you've screwed it up. If this has happened a few times and you're scared of it happening again, then you're likely to duck out of social situations in the first place, and I think this is what a lot of social anxiety sufferers go through.

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by Jessie Phillips

I take deeshow's point about social situations not being life threatening - but on the other hand, if your thoughts are "I'm lonely, I've been on my own for years, therefore I have to give this chance to make friends my best shot, or my life won't be worth living" - then it becomes much more similar to a genuinely life threatening situation, and the adrenalin starts pumping in much the same way, albeit maybe to a lesser extent.

Another complicating factor is the self-blame you go through after social contact, because you think you've screwed it up. If this has happened a few times and you're scared of it happening again, then you're likely to duck out of social situations in the first place, and I think this is what a lot of social anxiety sufferers go through.

Jessie I completely agree with you on this. What I meant was not immediately life threatening. I read about research that shows just being alone in old age can seriously shorten your life span so it certainly seems to be life threatening in those circumstances. But in the immediate situation I can't see adrenaline being helpful to social success.