How bad is your social anxiety?

[Austere_Lemur]

As the title says.

I'm generally curious. I've known people who are shy - but no one seems to be anywhere near my level (and I don't mean to sound like a precious little snow flake).

I'm 27 years old. I've only had one job years ago when I was 23 (which I got because my Mum who is my best friend landed me the job, and I only managed to keep it for all of one year because I had really up and down days).

When I was at secondary school, I got the grades to get into uni back into the days, but I failed abysmally because I couldn't attend seminars (small groups) whereas I found lectures somewhat easier (one person in a hundred - so the chance of being put on the spot was small). I failed the first year at uni - but it was good at the same time because it was the very first time where I saw a counselor who actually diagnosed me with social anxiety and put me on Citalopram. I was even fortunate to get back in touch with that same uni for a chance to go back for a second time - but that inevitably went wrong on the social front (with people in my halls of residence), and thus messed everything else up. Here I am, in the latter part of my twenties. All I can say as a positive to my name is that I achieved my driver's license (which I got aged 26), and I attended many seminars in order to get it (I've lived in Norway for the last two years).

I have really bad social anxiety. I can't do things like visit shops or go on public transport unless I have someone with me (e.g. my mother) first as a kind of reconnaissance mission - after I've done it a few times, I can mostly do it...unless something goes wrong and someone points me out and talks to me...

I'm just wondering if anyone else has it this bad - not that I hope that anyone goes through what I do. Just a kind of strength in numbers kinda thing! And we should all have a party!

I don't know...

[Dougella]

Yes, I have very similar levels of anxiety to what you've described. I couldn't pass my driving test so you've done better than me there!

[Mo34]

Pretty much the same levels.
Poor attendance at secondary school. Couldn't go to college, let alone uni, was housebound at the time. I did eventually pass my driving test at 28? ish. Tho I stopped driving for years because of anxiety lol. Relationships, one a very long time ago. Work a few short lived jobs which a couldn't cope with. Two pretty alright stabs at jobs, tho the last I had to leave as I was in meltdown and ended up under the CMHT for severe anxiety. Have not worked for a long time now.

I'm getting somewhat better I guess. Volunteering, attending MIND, counselling etc... Re connecting with ppl from the past.

[Austere_Lemur]

Thanks for everyone's replies. I tried and deleted about three different renditions of some elaborate essay, but at the of the day I just deleted because why the heck not? Sorry, don't mean to advocate to pro-depression, but that's where I'm at. No point in lying about that kind of thing.

[sophie123]

I used to slip out of school when I started at 4 years old because I just couldn't cope with it so I didn't get any qualifications but even though I have always taken panic attacks I just learned to try and hide my anxiety while avoiding people like the plague I have never had a relationship but I'm just used to that.
Like you I got a job through a family member which gave me severe panic attacks but I stayed in the job for 10 years I think that's because half of the time I was working by myself and for the other half I was only working with one other person and having anxiety was just normal for me,I have never known any different.
It was when I wasn't working and the job centre put so much pressure on me to get a job that I had a breakdown and now I will never work again and I'm on diazepam to stop panic attacks because if I have another severe panic attack I will lose the plot altogether this time.

[Dougella]

^ That's terrible. The job centre really shouldn't be pressurising people so much because, as in your case it, just makes things worse and people end up not being able to work at all.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Austere_Lemur

As the title says.

I'm generally curious. I've known people who are shy - but no one seems to be anywhere near my level (and I don't mean to sound like a precious little snow flake). .

A really interesting question lemur. I've been on and off the forum for years and don't think I've ever seen it asked before. Yes, I'd say my SA was just as bad, if not worse. Since I turned 40 it has improved, but in my late teens/early 20s it was horrendous. Everything was an ordeal, from asking for help in a library to ordering a cup of tea in a cafe (which I couldn't do until I was well into my 20s). I have never been to a party, for example, or a nightclub. When I went to my local sixth form college for an open day, I ended up fleeing to the local park, where I sat and waited until it was time to go home. While doing A levels, I would hide in the toilets between classes, and never once (in three years) sat in the common room. Even walking down a corridor made me shake.

I've never really worked. Neither have I had any serious, long-term relationships (just lots of distant, casual flings). And I still live at home. I also hate using phones, to the point of phobia. I put off taking driving lessons until I was 19 because I just couldn't face the social interaction. My dream was always to go away to university, to run away from myself and my life and start again. I made it to the Anglia Ruskin in Cambridge, and even shared a house with two other students, but I couldn't cope and came home. I then went to the local university (Essex) for three desperately lonely years. I didn't make a single friend during that time and only went to the bare minimum of seminars (which were of course an ordeal and during which I never spoke) and lectures.

Looking back over my 'life' I realize now that I was seriously ****ing ill, with an avoidant personality disorder in place by nine or ten years old. Right now the future is pretty bleak. I have no kids, no partner, no job and few friends. Since turning 40 I've kind of given up as well. I'm so filled with toxic shame I can barely function. But I'm trying to piece together some kind of life out of the wreckage. To finish on a positive, it DOES get better. My SA is nowhere near so bad as it was. I can now walk into a cafe and order a fry up, for example ***8211; impossible 10 or 15 years ago. I just need to take advantage of these improvements and not allow all the shame and regret to paralyze me. If I had to choose between annihilation or re-living my life with exactly the same mental health problems, I'd choose death.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by jinny

Mine is that bad too.
Lots of similar experiences.. Especially in my 20s
I couldn't cope at uni. I went to Stoke for one term (lol, I am obviously not on the same academic level as Moksha there) doing History of Art, withdrew as I could not attend tutorials and spent all my time in bed drinking cup-a-soup. Went to Bangor Uni for 2 and a half years, studying English Literature, but had the same problems..

Anglia Ruskin is a crappy polytechnic. It has no connection with the real Cambridge university! When I went you still got a big grant, so it was full of idiots looking for an excuse to laze around and drink for three years instead of getting a job. If I hadn't been a dysfunctional mess I'd have happily joined them I only lasted a couple of weeks though. And yet to this day my GP thinks I went to the Cambridge! He is extra nice, so I never bother to correct himEssex University is ok. Considering what a mediocre student I was, that was about the best I could expect to get into. I was just lucky it happened to be 8 miles from my house!

One thing I'd add is that some people really struggle with specific things. I can use public transport, drive to the other side of the country on my own, or even travel abroad. And I'd be OK going into cafes, etc. I might even force myself into a bar on my own (so long as I was drunk). Yet other things are still agony. I hate ordering food at a bar, for example. I'm at my worst when forced to expose myself/open up/be intimate in some way (being the new boy in an office or shop). Intimacy, humiliation and shame...those are the real triggers for me. So long as I'm distant and detached from people, my SA is bearable. This is why I've never been able to have a serious relationship: I couldn't bear having to meet her family and friends. I once went out with a girl for a whole year but never went into her family home or met her siblings ***8211; just her mum and three of her friends (individually). Weirdly, I have no problem with internet dating. I was working it out the other day, and I've been on 40 internet dates. One to one I'm fine.

[BritishPeace]

Used to have really bad social anxiety. Similar to you, no friends in uni, dropped out of masters. Went to medical school dropped out. Not being able to get on buses or even go out of my house unless I had alcohol inside me. Tried all sorts of SSRIs, didn***8217;t work. Now I would say at the age of 28 I don***8217;t have social anxiety disorder. I don***8217;t know what changed, there are a few things that have contributed but no that period in my life has passed and I can***8217;t belive that was me.

[humphrey]

I've never had a relationship of any sort, but I have managed to old down a job for the last 35 years. I didn't do uni, but I did do day release college from my job for four years. I have always been in lower paid work as when I was at school, especially high school I was bullied mercilessly, so I was in the bottom set of 25. I had trouble coping with the day to day life of being at school, that took so much energy that I rarely had any left to concentrate on the actual school work. But I did manage to leave with 6 CSE's which was truly a massive achievement for me.

Going to college was very hard work for the first couple of years, but it got better in the last 2. But I still had massive problems eating in front of anybody but my family, so I used to go and hide in my car for the breaks. Even with all of that I managed to come out with City & Guilds Certificates.

[Dougella]

^ I really think that you and everyone else on this thread should be congratulated for the things they have managed to achieve despite the great difficulties that SA causes

[Toxic]

I can go into shops, I can go into pubs/bars/clubs (although when they are rowdy I get a bit uneasy)

I managed school/college/university barring the presentations (I "HAD" to attend one presentation or they would have failed the entire year)..all the others I just straight up skipped and took the penalty but the one I had to attend I had to drink 4-5 pints of alcohol at about 7am before going in just to get me through it

I'm pretty bad at driving, in terms of anxiety and such
I'm dreadful on the phone, lots of mumbling and stuttering or talking complete bollocks because I forgot what I wanted to say
I'm fine at talking to members of the opposite sex in a friend capacity but anything potentially more and I'm a bit of a state and just clam up.
I've stuck with my current job for 5 years purely because I can't stomach the thought of having to sell myself and go through the interview process (similiar to online dating I guess)

Some things in life I probably look like a fairly competent adult, others I'm probably your average 7 year old

[lone*star]

I think we also have to take into account that there's surely a difference between not being able to do something on the one hand, and on the other hand, not wanting to do something.

Personally I can do just about anything in life if I push myself to do it, but there's very little in life I actually want to do! If I was to push myself to do something therefore - for example, going on a first date after making contact with someone online - I would likely be very nervous and uncomfortable about the whole experience; but I could do it if I really wanted to.

So the question is then: Can I not 'do dating' easily and comfortably, with pleasure, excitement and confidence, because I'm too anxious about the whole thing due to SA? Or is dating something I'm simply not genuinely interested in as a person, and therefore the anxiety and discomfort I would inevitably experience if pushing myself into such a thing would be just the obvious likely result of doing something unnatural and uninteresting for me?

In other words, is it that you can't do something in life because you 'have SA', or is it that you can't do it because it's just not really 'you'?

I suspect there's a lot of people nowadays who are indeed getting the two things confused!

[Dougella]

^ I'm not sure that 'don't want to' is quite the right phrase to use. Of course there will be some things that might cause a person great anxiety but they're just not interested in doing anyway. But some things it's more the case that the person would find a certain things very difficult to do, because of their anxiety and that's not the same as simply not wanting to do it.

Otherwise we get into the situation where people are accused of not trying hard enough or not making enough effort, which is unfair aswell as upsetting!

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Dougella

But some things it's more the case that the person would find a certain things very difficult to do, because of their anxiety and that's not the same as simply not wanting to do it.

True, but the point I was trying to make is that if someone is finding something very difficult (or even impossible) to do, then is that particular 'thing' something they should be doing in life anyway - should they even be attempting to do it? In other words, is it really and truly 'them'? And if not, then perhaps they shouldn't be trying to do it at all?

I suspect a lot of people nowadays are feeling pressurized into doing, or at least attempting to do things, that they're simply not cut out to be doing in life. And this 'pressure' likely comes from the so called 'normal' demands and expectations of other people and society in general - so basically trying to 'fit in' and be seen to be doing the 'right things'.

Otherwise we get into the situation where people are accused of not trying hard enough or not making enough effort, which is unfair aswell as upsetting!

Exactly. Which follows on from what I just said above. I guess the basic point I'm making (which some people might find difficult to grasp perhaps) is that what someone wants to do in life (or doesn't want to do, as the case may be) is closely linked to who they are as a person. And of course, if you're going against the grain of your natural, instinctive self - especially if you're feeling under outside pressure to do so - then fear and anxiety are the obvious likely outcome!

[Dougella]

^ You're right, I agree with you about that.

[lone*star]

^ That's good.

It's just that you appeared (above) to be suggesting that the anxiety itself is the cause of the problems. In other words, that the anxiety comes first. Whereas what I'm saying is that the anxiety is the product, or the symptom, of the problem. In other words, that the problems come first - that the fear and anxiety experienced have a cause. The cause being, that people are being asked to do things that they don't want to be doing in life, because that is not what they're cut out to do - it is simply not who they really are.

[Dougella]

^ That might be the case sometimes, yes.

[lone*star]

^ Only sometimes? So when would it not be the case?

[Dougella]

^ Well, when we're talking about going to a shop alone, or ordering a drink at a bar or eating a meal with someone else. I don't think those are things that we're not cut out to do.

[LittleMissMouse]

In the grand scheme of things probably not that bad, but I think a lot of that is because I'm moderately good at hiding it and can do a passable impression of someone who is just a bit shy.

I do force myself to do stuff, but I procrastinate so much if I have to phone or speak to anyone about anything. I hate, with a passion, having to do teleconferences at work, I always stumble over my words but I think I get away with it because most of what I do is written reports and that is something that I can actually do.

I really struggle with going anywhere to eat on my own - which I have to do if I'm away anywhere for work, and I hate when I meet people if they are late - not because of them being late, but because of being somewhere on my own and being really uncomfortable in a pub or coffee shop on my own. I have massive issues ordering in restaurants because I always have to end up saying everything twice owing to mumbling and/or being too quiet and I also would never muster the courage to go to the cinema on my own.

I did manage to survive uni, but I didn't have to do many tutorials or presentations, my course was mainly lectures and practicals so I could cope with those, pretty epic failure on the social side of uni though. I'd have loved be the type of person who went to the union after lectures or on Friday nights, but I think I went to the union less than about five times in four years.

Social life now is also an epic failure, I just don't know how to go out and make friends, it actually doesn't bother me massively, but at times I have moments of just wanting a relationship so you have someone to ask how your day was when the answer is "well, it was quite shit as it happens".

[Mr. Nobody]

my social anxiety was really bad when I was younger, and later on, I found coping strategies which either masked symptoms or helped me avoid situations outright,

after realising I needed help, and coming here, I've progressed quite a bit,
but after a certain amount of progress it seems to become more difficult to keep up that momentum and that level of growth,.. little victories over SA become a lot more tricky and harder-won the more your progress it seems.

Originally Posted by lone*star

people are being asked to do things that they don't want to be doing in life, because that is not what they're cut out to do

I think lone*star maybe needs to be careful of the idea that anxiety only comes from doing things you're not mean to do, as it could easily lead to simply doing nothing at all and retreating more and more into your shell,
if you allow SA free reign, it'll reduce your life to that of a rock,
you seem to be getting the cart before the horse on this point,
anxiety is stopping people doing what they want and what they often need to be doing,..
if you allow your anxiety to dictate what you do in life, you'll very soon be doing nothing, as it feeds on itself and makes even simple things more and more difficult,
at least if you're challenging yourself and trying to test your boundaries then you're keeping yourself going, and keeping things fresh,
you could begin by saying one day" I really don't want to go outside today".. and the next day, and the next day,. pretty soon, you're even more afraid of going out (for example.).. so you've gone from maybe feeling reluctant only,. to now feeling it's even more difficult to contemplate going out, and so the fear builds.

[snoo]

Originally Posted by LittleMissMouse

Social life now is also an epic failure, I just don't know how to go out and make friends, it actually doesn't bother me massively, but at times I have moments of just wanting a relationship so you have someone to ask how your day was when the answer is "well, it was quite shit as it happens".

Haha, this is really well put. I envy those who can make friends easily, but it seems such hard work for me. People like my partner seem to fall into friendships, but I can't seem to do the same and some of the few ideas I have tried have not borne fruit, perhaps I am too quick to give up.

At times it doesn't bother me at all. In previous years I have gone on holidays on my own. But other times I wouldn't mind hanging around people and not having to give a shit, if you know what I mean.

It would seem slightly absurd that I live in London and feel a bit like this. I am sure the advice would be 'just go out and meet people'.

[gregarious_introvert]

Reading through this thread has been a reminder of how my life used to be, until a little more than three years ago; things are very different now and I have the anxiety (mostly) under control, to the point where I probably come across as shy, rather than socially anxious. However, the anxiety remains and manifests itself (along with my more autistic traits) in stressful situations (such as two days ago, when my flight from La Paz to Lima was cancelled at short notice and I nearly became stranded in Bolivia).

I was bullied daily at school, but being a stubborn (for which, read bloody-minded) soul, I got through with a 100% attendance record; university was a trial too, but I managed to graduate without attending lectures (however, seminars were compulsory) and locking myself in my room, listening for when everyone was out so I could use the toilet, shower and kitchen (I bought myself a mini-grill so I could cook in my room when I needed to and the sink was sometimes used for a purpose for which it wasn't designed).

Work was easier, although poor interview skills meant that I missed out on many jobs and poor interpersonal skills resulted in never lasting more than two years in any one position. Six years ago, I had a breakdown in the job centre, whereupon the wonderful staff at that particular office suggested I apply for ESA. Weirdly, however, the work at which I was happiest was anything customer-facing (bar work, incoming customer-service call centres etc.), probably because, in the absence of any social life, it gave me contact with other humans (and having a defined role made me feel that I had a right to talk to people, whereas outside that milieu, I felt I had no right).

I've had no problems with relationships, but until recently these had all come from (lonely hearts) personal ads or (later in life) internet dating; however, I have never been able to form friendships, something which continues to this day (although there are a couple of people in my life whom I describe as friends now, but they are more just people I meet socially outside meet up, without the depth of understanding one might have with a true friend).

I passed my driving test at 17 (just forty years ago), out of necessity because I couldn't use public transport or walk crowded streets and didn't want to become hoysebound; I'm happy driving any distance and in most countries, having (probably) clocked up more than a million miles so far. I was (relatively) comfortable at concerts and music festivals, although at the latter I could go four or five days without talking to another human, but could never attend the theatre or cinema alone (not that I have much interest in cinema). I used to go shopping at 4am to avoid other people and couldn't visit the GP because there would be others in the waiting room. Eating in front of strangers and ordering in bars or restaurants was impossible - on holiday, for instance, I would buy takeaways and eat in my room (when I reached a point where I could stay alone in hotel rooms - I went 25 years with no holidays at all) or my hire car (if abroad).

I've had many agoraphobic episodes, of which the most recent (2012-2015) lasted three years; if someone spoke to me in the street (e.g. to ask the time), I would blurt out a response, then run away and burst into tears, shaking. At my worst, I couldn't answer the telephone at home (never a problem if it was part of my job) and I remember, back in 1966 when my parents had a telephone installed for the first time, bursting into tears when I heard a voice at the other end of the line. I always used to procrastinate over making essential calls (and would hang up if I had to leave an answer phone message, rehearsing the message over and over again before calling back) and could never make a social call. I've always had stage fright, to the point where I was punished for not going on stage when cast in school plays (despite being word-perfect in rehearsals). To this day, I have never attended a party.

There are still things I find difficult, but there is very little I can't do if I push myself; the anxiety is still there, but rarely visible to others (I quake on the inside, not the outside). The fact that I am sitting in a hostel in Peru writing this is something I couldn't have contemplated five or six years ago!

TL, DR: my social anxiety is under control, but there were fifty years during which it controlled most aspects of my life!

Sent from my SM-J330FN using Tapatalk

[Marco]

^It's great how you've managed to turn your life around, GI. You're certainly an inspiration to me! Safe trip home!

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ Well, when we're talking about going to a shop alone, or ordering a drink at a bar or eating a meal with someone else. I don't think those are things that we're not cut out to do.

I guess the point I'm making is, you have to put those activities you listed above into context - so in our case, the context of doing those things in 21st century Britain.

So for example, going to a shop alone might be a very different experience in any typical British town or city today than it was, say, fifty or a hundred years ago. So yes, when you isolate each particular event like that, then what I've said doesn't seem so applicable - but of course, none of those activities on their own equate to our society as a whole.

We really have to take into account the sum total of all our normal, everyday events and activities (which make up 'life' itself) when considering this subject. Why? Because they each form part of the total experience of our lives and they each influence each other also. So for example, someone who has difficulty ordering a drink at a bar, is also likely to have similar problems in other areas of life as well. So it doesn't really make so much sense in this case to talk of each activity in isolation, if you see what I mean.

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Vasco Da Gama

I think lone*star maybe needs to be careful of the idea that anxiety only comes from doing things you're not mean to do, as it could easily lead to simply doing nothing at all and retreating more and more into your shell,

Only if you believe that you have that choice in the first place. But I don't believe that! I know that life [which is so much bigger, faster and more intelligent than me] happens of its own accord [ie. without my assistance] and so, in reality, I have no such choice to make. And my own life is proof of that: Although there's actually very little I want to do in life, I can't help but do something - life won't allow me not to - so where's the problem? The problem you talk of only arises when you think that you are the doer!

[choirgirl]

I was okay at school, that was probably because I went to an okay school and to be honest, it never occurred to me that avoidance was an option. I probably would have fallen into it if I'd been allowed to get away with it. The only thing I remember trying (and failing) to get out of was a two-week French exchange.

University was pretty good on the social side and I even managed a few very short term relationships over this period of time. Fortunately it was extremely easy to meet a lot of people and alcohol was helpful here. Sadly I hit the wall academically in second year, (I now know this was due to weaknesses in executive function.) University was pretty unforgiving in those days when fewer people went. My problems were compounded by having my first depressive episode which lasted about five months. By the time it lifted I had a trail of late essays and some missed tutorials behind me. The missed tutorials were sort of because of sa, but indirectly, as I missed a presentation and I also missed a few when I had late essays. This led to me failing second year (they refused to mark my exam papers) and not being allowed to retake.

So I was thrust into working, which for some reason I never got used to. But everything about it, applying for a job, interviews, starting a job, and keeping going at most jobs was difficult. Some jobs were worse than others. I fell into a pattern of working for a bit, then not working. There was a lot of temp work about so it was usually a case of just not moving straight onto the next contract, rather than walking out of the job, although I did walk out of one job because I had a feeling of dread and panic every time I went in. This didn't work out so well financially, especially as I couldn't always instantly find a job once my money ran out. I couldn't seem to work consistently full time. I was always in a state of anxiety in most of the workplaces I encountered and it was utterly draining. I also went through phases of not being able to cope with interviews, so I could only apply for jobs that didn't require them.

After a few years of this I went home debt-ridden, and was slowly getting myself together once more when I had a severe episode of reactive depression and anxiety. This led to a long spell out of work. I genuinely couldn't cope at that time and it wasn't just the usual sa. Then of course, I had bad sa again, so got back into my pattern of short-term working, having a bit of a rest and so on. I also didn't drive which was a real problem now I was out of a city. My dad offered to pay for driving lessons, but I put if off for years, convinced I would somehow get in a terrible accident. Obviously it was impossible to build a career with this work pattern, and my CV worsened by the year relative to others my age. I also stopped socialising except with a few old friends, all of whom had moved on in their lives one way or another. So many people of my age were off travelling the world in their 20s, as the price of air travel fell. That was something I couldn't manage either even when I had the money. I just couldn't cope with doing 'normal things'. My dad was understandably frustrated and made things worse by regularly berating me which made me even less confident. I was simply stuck, somehow waiting for things in general, including my anxiety, to get better.

The anxiety did eventually reduce, but I waited too long. Looking back I should have medicated myself to cope better with work. I was too stubborn to do so. I also should have worked out the type of workplaces/jobs/bosses to avoid and let myself avoid them rather than beating myself up for not being able to cope with anything like a normal person. I found it very hard to accept my weaknesses, rather seeing them as weaknesses I could get over if I tried hard enough. But then I never maintained the 'trying harder', I would always backslide. And I still do.

On the plus side I've never had a problem with things like everyday travel and going to the shops. Phone calls have often been a problem. I'm not too bad at the moment, but generally if I have a scary phone call to make then I will put it off for hours, if not days. Actually, this led to a lot of missed opportunities when the phone call was about a job. And I have always been worse when someone else can overhear me on the phone. Why, I don't know. I only found out about social anxiety because I googled phone anxiety.

[anxiouslondoner]

I don't know if I am socially anxious in the traditional sense, I can do a lot of things but tend to break down when it comes to more meaningful interpersonal relationships. I feel lonely almost all the time, have a pretty lousy sense of self and can't really cope with any non-superficial interaction with anyone. But I can travel to a foreign country and order food in bad Spanish without even feeling too awkward about it now.

[Ronnie_Pickering]

its improving a lot. I don't believe you can hide and social anxiety get better. I am doing retail and it does seem to help but it's got to be sort of active, rather than passive approach to it. Like recognising unhelpful thoughts and challenging them. Is it really the case?