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  #1  
Old 20th November 2017, 15:34
Tom Morello Tom Morello is offline
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Default Low self worth

Is there a cure for this? Because no matter what I do it never changes, I've managed to get better jobs, travel alone and make friends but I still feel worthless on a regular basis and like people wouldn't notice too much if I vanished.
It feels like there's a voice always telling me I'm not good enough and trying to kill any positivity. I'm ****ing fed up of it.
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  #2  
Old 20th November 2017, 16:08
Merritt Merritt is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

I'm the same, every time I do something that I should maybe be proud of, or progress in life somehow, I don't feel any better about myself. My standards just get a bit higher, and I beat myself up all the more for not reaching them. I seem to feel better when I stop trying. Well, not better, but I don't care as much.

I think something would have to switch in my brain on a very fundamental level for me to ever feel like I have any worth, that I deserve anything good in life, and I've no idea what that could be. It's so out of my nature I'd practically have to become a new person.
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  #3  
Old 21st November 2017, 09:09
Hayman Hayman is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

In recent years I've taken measures to improve myself and it's something I'll be continuing to do next month, as we approach Christmas (i.e - by getting out more...). Even though I know I've made several improvements to myself - without seeing any validation or reward for this - it's nothing more than a 'hollow victory' for me.

I appreciate how selfish that many sound, but at the end of the day I'm just a human being like everyone else. Most people I've ever met have had ulterior motives. They'll so something in hope of getting something in return. In most cases, this will happen or there's a good chance of it happening if they do it a few times over. Me? I'll do the same thing and…nothing. Sorry, but I can't just "be" happy by achieving goals for myself if the same acknowledgements and progressions are not being made. Especially when you see everyone else around you, by direct comparison, a relatively easy time and then in some cases openly mocking you as they look back.

This is what makes me feel even more 'empty' inside. Sure, I can make the effort. I can do certain things that those socially more able than myself can do…but that alone isn't enough to make me happy. I need the same confidence-boosting perks and privileges that the vast majority of others receive in order to have the same motivation and desire to keep on improving.
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  #4  
Old 21st November 2017, 10:25
Lone Dog Lone Dog is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayman
In recent years I've taken measures to improve myself and it's something I'll be continuing to do next month, as we approach Christmas (i.e - by getting out more...). Even though I know I've made several improvements to myself - without seeing any validation or reward for this - it's nothing more than a 'hollow victory' for me.
I'm not sure about this. I've read where you spent money on clothes, and see you are talking about "getting out more." I don't think this will help, if you are just dressing up the same anxious, socially awkward, bitter personality in new clothes and sending it out there into social situations. That isn't going to help. To REALLY take measures to improve yourself you probably need to consider medication and especially, therapy (and yes, I've read of your experiences previously in these areas, but I think they need to be pursued again). Otherwise, I don't think you are even getting a "hollow victory", you're getting another defeat. You're reinforcing your failure.

As for low self-esteem, it's a hard thing to shift if you've had it for a long time, especially since childhood, and rather worrying when it persists despite positive accomplishments, i.e. jobs, travel and friendships or relationships. Maybe that's something that needs therapy as well.
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  #5  
Old 21st November 2017, 11:01
Consolida Consolida is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Morello
Is there a cure for this? Because no matter what I do it never changes, I've managed to get better jobs, travel alone and make friends but I still feel worthless on a regular basis and like people wouldn't notice too much if I vanished.
It feels like there's a voice always telling me I'm not good enough and trying to kill any positivity. I'm ****ing fed up of it.

I can relate to this.

I***8217;ve suffered from low self worth since I was a young child and whatever I do in life I never feel any better about myself. I don***8217;t like myself and I don***8217;t want to like myself. The strange thing is, I do now have a few loved ones in my life that I know would be lost without me if I suddenly vanished but that knowledge doesn***8217;t make me feel any more worthwhile as a person. Instead I feel terribly sad that such lovely people would want me in their lives when they deserve to have so sooo much better


For what it***8217;s worth Tom, although I don***8217;t know you, I think there would be people in your life that would very much notice and miss you if you vanished.

As for a cure for low self worth? A new brain maybe!

Please don***8217;t quote
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  #6  
Old 21st November 2017, 13:07
Hayman Hayman is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Dog
I'm not sure about this. I've read where you spent money on clothes, and see you are talking about "getting out more." I don't think this will help, if you are just dressing up the same anxious, socially awkward, bitter personality in new clothes and sending it out there into social situations. That isn't going to help. To REALLY take measures to improve yourself you probably need to consider medication and especially, therapy (and yes, I've read of your experiences previously in these areas, but I think they need to be pursued again). Otherwise, I don't think you are even getting a "hollow victory", you're getting another defeat. You're reinforcing your failure.

As for low self-esteem, it's a hard thing to shift if you've had it for a long time, especially since childhood, and rather worrying when it persists despite positive accomplishments, i.e. jobs, travel and friendships or relationships. Maybe that's something that needs therapy as well.
Believe me, I'm not bitter. 'Brutally honest', yes! I think it's probably because I don't 'sugar coat' bad or highly unusual situations for someone of my age. If you think I'm bitter, you should have seen how I was four/five years ago compared to now! I do have vlogs that I recorded from about 18 months ago if you wish to see my personality. Just let me know if you're interested and I'll PM them across to you. It's difficult to judge a person based upon words on a screen.

I have taken lots of advice over the years and whilst there has been elements which have proven to be useful, plenty of it is just the same old generic pieces which may help those who have 'fallen off the horse' as such, but offers no assistance to those who are simply trying to get onto the horse in the first place... The advice I've taken is not just for myself, but to show to others that I have listened, I have acted and...still nothing happens for me. At this point, I'm often ignored as they don't know what else to say or merely repeat the same advice that they've just witnessed me carry out. The advice I need is where to go following the same pieces of advice which have unfortunately failed for me.

Yes, I have spent a lot of money on clothes. Admittedly, not much since early on this year but during 2016, I spent a four-figure sum. Easily the most I've spent on clothing for about eight years prior to that put together! So, I've listened to that advice (even took advice from a stylist in one of those shops), acted upon it, spent my own money and...nothing. I've talked a lot about going out more and I explain in considerably more detail on my external blog site (a link for this can be found on my blog section here on SAUK). So, I'm certainly not 'hiding away' or not trying to make myself known. Getting out more is probably one of the most common pieces of advice I get - and that includes from medical professionals. Again though...nothing. I go out and...I come home again - only with a lighter wallet!

I understand your point over just doing that but being the same old anxious person and to a certain extent I accept what you're saying. My point is that there are reasons behind my Social Anxiety and generally how things are for me is one of the main contributory factors. Sure - I can work on my Social Anxiety and that's exactly what I do, but without seeing the same things happen for me as they do to the vast majority of others - how can I think or act differently?! It's a catch-22 situation, for me. I'm told to just "be" like others - but with none of the perks/privileges (or whatever you wish to call it) that make them that way in the first place! A point which is often ignored.

I feel my eye contact has certainly improved with people and there's no real explanation on how I've done this other than literally forcing myself. I'm more confident in myself with regards to this than I ever have been at any point in my past, but it hasn't led onto anything else. Before I set foot out of the door for any social event, I think of topics of conversation I can bring up. I actively try to join in and even start conversations myself. I've done this over and over again in recent years but again...I don't find it rewarding. I'm following advice on self improvement but it doesn't lead onto more for me - but I do see it happening for everyone else around me. So, it's not just the physical side I have taken care of and will do my upmost to maintain - I've tried equally as hard when it comes to speaking and how I come across.

This is why I describe things I've done to self-improve as 'hollow victories'. They don't mean much to me (although I'm proud I can now confidently get out more than I used to...) without seeing the same progress that 'happens' for others. Often bypassing certain hoops I've been expected to jump through en-route...just to add to the frustration.

At this point, you begin to see a wider picture. (Sure - I have problems. I've known that for most of my life. I've taken action to address them). You start seeing there's more to this than just 'you', that the 'finger of blame' is rather unfair for always being pointed just at you, regardless of what you do. You start searching the internet with the problems you face. You come across others with similar if not identical issues. You start to read books on physiology and sociology. You begin to see how society does actively stigmatise people who are 'left behind' and how this type of behavior also doesn't help the situation, for when you do make honest and sustained efforts. It's not just your problem, it's also a larger societal issue that needs to be addressed. It isn't 'blame shifting' - it's just understanding how and why the odds, somehow, still remain stacked against you regardless of what you do or say. You cannot control how other people respond to you. If you've been perfectly polite to them but they remain critical or jokey towards you, then I fail to see how that's the fault of the person who is suffering. It's just an easy scapegoat to have for those unwilling to listen/understand or haven't faced the same problems...and sadly I do include numerous medical professionals in that.

Sadly, I have no answer on how to deal with the above 'trying but still facing brick walls' situations.

With regards to seeking professional help again, it's something that I have actually thought about over the last four/five months. I know I'm falling back into a depressive state (I've actually been diagnosed with depression in the past, feeling 'better' than I do at the moment) but again, for me to do this I need to see these professionals looking at the situation more logically - seeing what I face as being contributory factors, rather than my state causing what I face (again, treating the patient as the scapegoat). There are reasons behind why I am the way I am and I certainly didn't choose to be this way for no reason. Again, without this understanding, you feel even more lost! This is why I'm reluctant to go back to this because I was even more frustrated whilst seeking professional help than I was by simply doing things off my own back... I'm not ruling it out, but if I do decide to go down this route again, I'm going to have to be more forthright from the start. I don't wish to waste anyone's time if we're singing from completely different hymn sheets from the outset. This isn't to say I won't listen to what he or she has to say. Far from it. I'll listen to anyone. What I'm saying is that I don't go around in circles any more. Progressive action, not repetitive action which clearly doesn't work for men like me.

(I'll stop here - I've just seen how much I've typed, sorry! )
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  #7  
Old 21st November 2017, 13:33
umm umm is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Morello
Is there a cure for this? Because no matter what I do it never changes, I've managed to get better jobs, travel alone and make friends but I still feel worthless on a regular basis and like people wouldn't notice too much if I vanished.
It feels like there's a voice always telling me I'm not good enough and trying to kill any positivity. I'm ****ing fed up of it.
It is quite telling, that you say "people wouldn't notice too much if you vanished", because it suggests indirectly that you derive some degree of worth from other people. That, to me, is the key. If you prop yourself up with the opinions of others, you leave no room for your own. It can work (albeit tenuously) if those opinions are overwhlemingly good - many lucky people live their entire lives like that - but if they are not, it feels like you have no chance. For me, it is important to actively cut myself off from the opinions of others; to be almost a little confrontational about it; to tell myself I do not care, I refuse to care what they think and if they have a problem with me, and if they haven't discussed it with me sensibly instead of having a little whinge, that is 100% their failure, not mine.

Now, that sounds like I go round with a cranky sour face, all the time. I really don't. See? Happy smiles! Seriously though, it is a mindset rather than anything I verbalise or act upon (though that does happen; never used to, I can tell you that), but in doing so, it is like I am stopping their opinions (perceived, or actual, or imagined, or whatever else) flooding into me and overwhelming me. That then gives my own views space to breathe. It frees me up from under the weight of all this negativity and feels like I have forcibly placed myself on equal footing with them rather than being bottom of the pile. It feels like I have taken a little control back, and have kind of grown a little as a person then. I may of course then find my own views about myself are negative, but at least I have space to think about them, and whatever else, and work things out a bit, without everything being compounded by all this external negativity.

Going back to the weights and balances analogy, it's as though I have shoved all that other-person weight back to its end of the see-saw, where it's in balance with my own. People will rarely retrieve the weight of their own opinions for you. It's debatable whether they are even aware of it, though some definitely are, and might use it to all kinds of ends, so that's something to be mindful of. You just have to shove it back. Try it. Next time you find yourself thinking: oh, person XYZ wouldn't care if I vanished, have a conversation in your head. Say: to hell with them, it's their loss. Let that thought feed into how you act, around them and elsewhere. Good luck! Hope this helps. Forgive me if it is not relevant to you, but I'll leave it here just in case it helps someone else out.
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  #8  
Old 21st November 2017, 14:01
Lone Dog Lone Dog is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

@Hayman: Good of you to reply, I hoped I hadn't spoken out of turn there. I probably could have used a different word than 'bitter', but you get the idea. I do understand what you say about not getting opportunites or rewards that others do when one appears to put in more effort than they do. I've noticed this myself, it seems you just can't win. I'm interested in the idea of what came first, your state, or the problems you face via other people. I go for the idea of cause and effect: something bringing about your SA, and then the effect being the way other people are then responding to the personality that you present to them. Of course, perhaps whatever brought the SA about WAS the response of other people, perhaps at an early age. So we're in a self-perpetuating loop. I think the way to go is to consider medication & therapy which will help you in the social circumstances you put yourself in. I do take the point that the therapy might not help; I found myself frustrated with it and have been fending for myself without medication or therapy for a while.
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  #9  
Old 21st November 2017, 16:27
Hayman Hayman is offline
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Default Re: Low self worth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Dog
@Hayman: Good of you to reply, I hoped I hadn't spoken out of turn there. I probably could have used a different word than 'bitter', but you get the idea. I do understand what you say about not getting opportunites or rewards that others do when one appears to put in more effort than they do. I've noticed this myself, it seems you just can't win. I'm interested in the idea of what came first, your state, or the problems you face via other people. I go for the idea of cause and effect: something bringing about your SA, and then the effect being the way other people are then responding to the personality that you present to them. Of course, perhaps whatever brought the SA about WAS the response of other people, perhaps at an early age. So we're in a self-perpetuating loop. I think the way to go is to consider medication & therapy which will help you in the social circumstances you put yourself in. I do take the point that the therapy might not help; I found myself frustrated with it and have been fending for myself without medication or therapy for a while.
No problem! I didn't really take it negatively – I just thought I'd clarify my own position a little better on the 'bitter' bit! I can understand why you'd say that and that's why I'm as constructive as possible when I post. Imagine my mood in typing to be like talking to you in a mutual, friendly way around a small table in a pub with a pint in our hands!

Regardless of what anyone else says, seeing others around you merely 'stumble' their way through life's progressions does happen, whilst someone like ourselves can make just as much effort if not more…and be left completely behind. Over the years, I've just grown exceptionally tired of being told it's all in my head or it's some sort of 'illusion'. It's certainly an elaborate one if it is an illusion! There's been occasions where it’s been on the tip of my tongue, usually to those further ahead in terms of progressions who say this to me if their partner, marriage, kids, house e.t.c. is all an 'illusion' or whether it does actually exist. If I'm pushed far enough one day – I know this is going to slip out… If I said that to one particular person I know, I'd expect to see a fist hurtling towards my face for saying that!

Generally, most people who haven't had Social Anxiety or Depression (including medical professionals I've seen – they know of the condition and learnt about from textbooks – without dealing with it themselves to know how it actually feels) automatically assume your state has developed the problems. I’m sure in some cases that's true, but in mine that's like blaming the smoke for the fire. They'll see the smoke (my symptoms) but not the roaring fire (the root cause) burning underneath. So, they'll 'fight' the smoke, attempt to blow it away and then genuinely wonder why it quickly builds up again. Until that fire is put out/addressed (the problems I discuss), the smoke is always going to be there… I hope that makes sense. It's as if I'm talking Swahili to these people, given the understanding they show…

I've had three courses of Fluoxetine in the past and on all three occasions it's worked very well indeed. It didn't change any of my chronic luck, but certainly made me more care-free about what valid (but ignored) issues surrounds a man in my position – right at the very bottom of the social ladder. Within weeks of coming off it – I returned to normal. My doctors were genuinely surprised by this – probably thinking Social Anxiety and Depression is as easily 'cured' as a common cold. It was at this point they refused to give me more Fluoxetine, despite seeing improvements in my state (although not the luck). Instead, this is when they pushed me onto the likes of CBT which really didn't work. It sent me backwards if anything as it was like 'face your fears – on steroids!'. The truth is that my state and problems are actually caused by facing my fears. Daily. Facing even more isn’t going to suddenly cure me! Don’t do more of this and then you're scapegoated as solely to blame for all your problems – rather than seeing the problems actually causing me to be so low in the first place. The logic was completely backward to my own way of thinking and it was generally accepted by my assessor that it wasn’t the right course of action to me, so we went our separate ways. I returned to my doctors and low and behold – the same leaflet on CBT was chucked in my lap and I was quickly sent on my way to "try it again"… Talk about being rail-roaded! At this point, I called it a day with seeking professional help. That was in around 2011/12. Around this time, I felt at about the lowest I’d ever been. Deeply depressed and facing endless criticism and blame from all quarters. This is why I'm very reluctant to return to seeking professional help. I think this is also why I will defend my corner when I face unfair criticisms or told I'm not making effort e.t.c… I've gone so many years without being listened to and people reading too much between the lines. I don't have an issue being told what to do, nor how to go about things. What I do have an issue with is a denial that I've made no effort or that, somehow, everything is my fault when I'm merely responding to the actions of others towards me.

When I was growing up, I was completely different. Even my own mother says I was a friendly little chatterbox until around the age of eight or nine - and who I am now is a world apart. I was still rather naive to fellow children's little jokes about me because I noticed I was starting to fall behind (i.e – making new friends) even as early as that. As I entered my teens I was becoming more subdued by the year as the jokes were becoming cruel and the stigmas started spreading like wildfire. By the end of my teens, I was a shell of the boy I used to be – fearful of socialising with almost anyone. The gap between me and my peers become a gulf as I entered my twenties and now, aged 32, it's gone beyond a gaping chasm that I cannot relate whatsoever to anyone of my own age any more (all present company accepted of course). Yet, despite this – I'm still heavily criticised, joked about and stigmatised whenever it comes to social events and topics over life progressions come up. I'm made to feel three inches tall but again, I'm told over and over again that all of this is my fault… I'm only reacting to how I've been treated for over 20 years. I've made plenty of effort to try and get some progressions to my name not only to try and stem this constant flow of humiliation, but because I actually want some things to happen in my life. It's been fruitless because of the stigmas people hold against me for not having had their easy, regular luck (by direct comparison). Again – it's a horrible catch-22 situation for me.

This is why I say it's not just the problem of someone who's left behind in life and with Social Anxiety causing their own issues – it's also a Societal problem where these basic life chances, perks and progressions are 'held back' from them. At this point, most people say you have to create your own luck – and that's exactly what I've spent several years trying, and failing, to do. There's so much more to it than that. Again, I don't brush aside that nothing is my fault. Of course there is. I accept I'm not a big socialiser and that will of course limit my chances. I've never denied that. I accept that I've made mistakes in the distant past and in hindsight, things I'd have done differently. We all have. We're only human. However, to have had NO chances despite the effort you've made is somehow all my own doing….?! To go out to the same places as others, do the same things (if not more) and still find yourself with nothing to show for it…? To be told you need to jump through even more hoops over a much longer period of time than anyone else has had to…? I'm sorry – I will argue that case in my defence all day long. At what point will regular people notice this and think… "Hang on…this is unfair. He's being singled out, here. I see his point".

Sorry for rabbling on again, but I just wanted to add that!
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