Integrating yourself back in to society

[Sunrise]

No matter how much progress I make, this is something I've never been able to do.

I feel very detached from other people. I think I feel a lot of anger and resentment. I feel very isolated. I go to work, I mix with others, but I don't feel a part of anything and I don't find mixing with others helps.

This is probably more common with people who have spent a long time in prison than anxiety sufferers. I feel like I can't adjust to modern society. My life and my experiences has been very different to the norm. I've never really done "normal" things.

My life consists of working and dwelling in my own misery. I don't think I've ever really grown emotionally as a person. I'm obsessed with fear, sadness and self-loathing. I've been described as a "toxic person" before and I think it describes me perfectly.

I've never been able to get to grips with the idea that I could become a functioning member of society. I've tried, but I've always felt like I'm just a dreamer. I'm more of a deluded fantasist I think. I find the reality of life impossible to deal with.

[Dougella]

The only thing that I can think of that could help with that is either finding activities that you really enjoy and are interested in whatever it happens to be....cycling, rambling, paddle boarding, reading crime novels, re-enacting historical events.....and finding a group that does that activity. That way you're meeting people who you have atleast one interest in common with.

Or volunteering or contributing to some sort of cause or charity that you believe in or means a lot to you so you're part of a group that has the same aim in that way.

[Sunrise]

My biggest past time is wallowing in my own misery. I spend hours a day worrying about things and getting wound up, it's all I ever really think about.

Other people definitely find this aspect of me off-putting. I'm a very hard person to warm to and I find that people don't enjoy my company. When ever I've tried to meet others I always end up feeling alienated from them. I tend to upset people quite a lot, especially once they find out what I'm really like.

I tend to suck the life out of everyone and everything. I find it funny that whenever I read advice about meeting people it always talks about how people like me should be avoided at all costs. People tend to look for traits like warmth, friendliness and positivity in others, but I'm the opposite.

I feel like I'm lacking the basic skills to function in society. I have the skills to survive but I don't feel like I can form any sort of positive relationship with others. I feel like my goal is to try and cope with life rather than thrive.

[Dougella]

^ That does not sound like an enjoyable, or relaxing way to spend your time! But that's a part of having an anxiety disorder isn't it, rather than a part of your personality?

Just coping with life is an achievement for some of us, it shouldn't be underestimated.

[Sunrise]

I've only recently realised that misery is my main hobby. When I'm not at work, and even when I am at work come to think of it, I spend most of the time fretting about stuff and getting upset. I find myself often completely consumed by dark thoughts. I'm probably one of the most neurotic people you could ever me.

Meeting others doesn't help with my confidence because quite understandably people don't want to spend their time with someone like that.

When I try and put myself in someone else's shoes and imagine what it must be like having to deal with someone like me, I'm quite shocked at just how unpleasant I must seem. If I met someone else who was just so utterly miserable, self-obsessed, humourless and lacking in any sort of charm or charisma I don't think I'd know how to react. I'm not sure if I'd feel sorry for them or pity them or what. It must be so draining having to deal with someone like that.

I've had 20 years of relentless misery. Even people with SA/anxiety etc have other things going on in their life, hobbies, interests etc. Mental illness basically defines me. It's all I am and it's all I really think about. Beneath all that I'm nothing, I've never really developed a personality beyond that.

[Dougella]

^ But many of us have said to you before, it's obvious from your posts that you do have a sense of humour and have interests in things. Maybe your anxiety and dark thoughts prevent that coming accross in person?

[Clumsy*]

^I love that reply. I hope I'm not going to sound patronising if I say Well done for making a friend this year Nanuq

[biscuits]

Aww that's inspirational advice, Nanuq

[Moksha]

I have been thinking about this quite a lot recently. My SA was crippling in my teens and 20s. In my 30s, thanks to internet dating and a few others things, I gained more confidence. By my late 30s, I'd changed a lot. Last year, at 44, I began retraining for a job. This involved driving to London to spend weekends with a group of students and instructors. It meant meeting lots of new people, eating lunch with them, and basically spending all day Saturday and all day Sunday (9-5) with strangers. Ten years ago I couldn't have done that. I certainly couldn't have done it in my 20s.

Now, at 45, I can walk into a room and get along with most people. And one to one I can deal with almost anyone. I'm pretty sure the people on those training courses would be shocked if I told them my life story. I joked around, made people laugh, and passed myself off as a 'normal' human being!! No one there would have guessed that I've spent most of my life hiding away. Or that I've never left home.

Now I'm stuck as to what to do. For the first time, I'm free. But it has come too late. Do I make an effort to reintegrate into society? And what does that even mean? Do I want a serious relationship? Maybe with someone who already has kids? Do I want all that hassle? Do I want to get on the property ladder? Or is it too late? Do I want a group of friends? Do I want to go out all the time?

The honest truth is no, I don't. I just can't be bothered. It all seems like a big hassle. That's the word I keep coming back to - hassle. At my age, all I want is peace and quiet and a life free of stress.

Even when I was young I never really craved a busy social life. The only thing that motivated me to get out into the world was shame. I was desperate to start again, to reinvent myself, to escape the feelings of shame and inadequacy. But it's too late now. I'm a 45-year-old man who lives with his mum in the family home. I have never left. And nothing can wipe away the shame I feel at my story. If I was young, it would be different. People say it's never too late, but let's be honest, it kind of is. When you are young, your body is strong. You have energy. And you have time. Also, most people in your age group are single and childless. They are keen to make new friends. Not at 45.

I'm kind of happy at home reading, strumming my guitar, learning Spanish, etc. The 'normal' life of a partner, mortgage, kids, friends, a small semi on a new build estate, Homebase on a Saturday and a barbeque with the in-laws on a Sunday, etc, has passed me by. And I can't honestly say I regret it.

I'll use the training to earn some money, which I will save for my (lonely and childless) old age. Other than that, I can't see the point of reintegrating myself into society. It really doesn't appeal. I'm happy on the outside.

[Sunrise]

I can relate to that I think. I've often like there are certain things I should be doing because it's "normal", but I don't really want to do them. My only motivation for doing it would be to appear "normal", I wouldn't be doing it because I found it rewarding or enjoyable.

I'm never going to be the sort of person to have a wife and kids, or a career, or spend my weekends playing squash with Graham from accounts and watching Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow. But I don't think I've ever genuinely wanted to do any of that. I've often felt like I should be doing that because it's "normal", it's what Mr Average strives for, and if I'm not doing it I must have somehow failed at life. But I wouldn't find living that sort of life enjoyable, I think it would cause me nothing but hassle, but at least I'd be seen as a normal, functioning member of society rather than some oddball outsider.

[biscuits]

What would you like to be able to do as part of the integration back into society?

I think it's okay to recognise the struggles and limitations, but important to think that you might not be in the right phase of life to be ready. I'm finding it hard to put what I mean in words. I've thrown myself into typical social events thinking that I'll adapt, but actually I realised that I don't like doing certain things - so I found things I like to do instead. I hate the idea of people feeling defeated and like this is it for them. I hope this doesn't sound blunt, but feeling that way just makes it so. I appreciate that it's really difficult to socialise when you have a lot of barriers and anxieties. I just think it's really important to always be open to the idea that our thoughts and perceptions of ourself are very heavily impacted on by the negative thoughts that come with anxiety - and that through positive interactions and experiences the way we feel about ourselves and socialising can change completely.

I probabaly don't make any sense!

[Sunrise]

I wouldn't use the word "defeated" at all. I'm probably in the best place I've ever been mentally right now. I've not "given up", although my perspective on life has changed dramatically over the past few years.

I've always wanted to form close connections with others and meet people who I feel at ease and comfortable with. But I don't think that's really possible anymore. I've found the reality of trying to do this very disappointing and the reality has been very different to my expectations.

I feel sad in a way, but I don't feel like I've missed out or anything as it feels like it was an impossible dream now. I don't feel like the option is there. It doesn't feel like a situation where I just need to try harder to make it happen.

I don't see it as defeatist. I'm not closed completely closed off to the idea of change, but I no longer expect it. I used to think that if I tried hard enough I could make things happen, but now I think that isn't always the case. Realistically some of the goals and ambitions I used to have seem unlikely to happen now.

[biscuits]

^ oh, sorry. I think you might have taken my post in a way that wasn't intended. I was trying to be motivational but obviously failed haha.

Re-read your final two paragraphs of your original post - that's what I was replying to. It doesn't tally up with your response above this one.

It's never about trying harder or effort, especially with crippling anxiety and depression in the mix. It's more about learning what's happening in our brain and to our physiology. And usually we need other people's support too - professional and friendship. I'm sure everyone can relate to spending periods alone and developing thought patterns and behaviours that imprison us.

I am sorry if you thought I was saying that you've given up. That wasn't my intention I meant that we can feel defeated and that it's possible for that feeling to go.

[Sunrise]

I think my posts do tally up and that kind of illustrates what I'm saying. For me being in a better place mentally means no longer being suicidal, threatening to harm myself, at risk of being sectioned or binge drinking on a regular basis. In that respect I'm in a much better place mentally as I don't feel at risk of any of that right now. I can function on a basic level, hold down a job, live on my own, do basic things like that when at one point I would have really struggled with all of that.

But I feel like that's all I can really hope for. Survival feels like my aim, and I am surviving so maybe I should be more grateful. I'm very lonely, don't have any real friends, and feel very disconnected from the rest of the world. That's what I struggle with these days. I haven't given up but it doesn't feel like anything I can realistically aim for.

I feel like I've managed to overcome the really horrible stuff but I still can't function on a normal level. I don't think I ever really developed properly as a person due to my past struggles.

[biscuits]

^ ah, I misunderstood what you meant. Sorry for that thank you for clarifying.

I can relate to what you're saying - to a degree because I haven't experienced the same past as you. Going through a lot in our teenage years and twenties puts pause on our social development and the development of our brains. We can become stuck in a place that others have been able to move on through as a result of their typical experiences of adolescence. Our neural pathways haven't formed because we haven't had those experiences. We haven't learnt how to form friendships etc.

You're a likeable person with a quick whit. Also very articulate and reflective. What I mean is, you have lots of qualities that are desirable in a friend.

I hope you're able to find a way or support to feel a part of things you desire to.

[choirgirl]

That's brilliant news re the training, Moksha. Also, great news re the friend, Nanuq. Sunrise, you've reached your aim of surviving, so I suppose it's natural that you would want to move on to working on something else. I sort of relate to finding the reality of life very difficult to deal with. It seems relentlessly disappointing.