The drugs don't work

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by ben

By taking the attitude youre taking you are loosing "approval, credibility, friends" and no one will listen to your message anyway because they believe the person delivering it is close minded. Even if the message is an excellent and helpful one. (ie ditto Pals message - just seen it)

Read InnerVisions contributions again please!

look u no wot i care for the welfare of fellow SA'ers and i want the best for them

i know personally that by using medication is just accepting second best from life and i don't want that for anyone. i hate the way people with SA live such less than mediocre lives. i just want them all to live lives as fullfiling as non sufferers and when people mention medication i know that people will not be able to achieve this.

i know thast thinkrightnow can cure a problem at the root therefore enabling a person to live a truly fullfiling life so when im not allowed to recommend it to people and when everyone is defending medication i get p!ssed off and go into one. iseem to have a fog over my mind and become single minded and my attitude becomes very poor.

we are vest leaving this thread now. i have some great discussions on this site int he past and hope to have more in the future.

i dont have have an attitude problem , i just get p!ssed off with the whole medication/thinkrightnow thing

[mi©o]

i know thast thinkrightnow can cure a problem at the root therefore enabling a person to live a truly fulfiling life so when im not allowed to recommend it to people and when everyone is defending medication i get p!ssed off and go into one. iseem to have a fog over my mind and become single minded and my attitude becomes very poor.

I haven't seen anyone pushing medication on people here. And if I did then I'd probably have something to say about it. In fact I imagine most people here would frown on medication being pushed upon people and if anyone were to do that repeatedly they'd deserve a firm warning from the mods, if not banning.

What I see instead, is people asking advice on medication, more often than not because they've been to the doctor and received (or have been recommended) a bunch of pills they know little about. Whether that's right or wrong is a whole different argument (ironically it's the argument we started off on). But there's no one saying 'take this, it'll cure you in 60 minutes'! You catch my drift?

I'm all for different therapies. Even NLP is worth a try in my book, but like others here I'm being put off it by your constant preaching and know-it-all, guaranteed cure, 'selling' techniques. To be aware of your own ignorance and accepting that there is, always, flaws in your knowledge (no matter who you are) is a great quality to have. It means you'll always be learning something new. To deny that is to stop learning altogether, in which case you're greatly hindering your own development (and credibility).

NLP is a tool, nothing more. In the very same way CBT is a tool, or medication, or positive affirmations, or hypnosis, or meditation, or the millions of other useful tools that exist out there. They all have their place and some are better than others. There are people who are more suited to some than others too. This is a diverse world with diverse people and diverse problems, even when they come with the same labels.

You're entirely free to talk about your experiences with NLP and no one has a problem with that. But when you say 'OK, STOP! Don't do that, do THIS! For the sum of nineteen pounds and ninety nine pence you can be cured in sixty minutes!' in every thread, it gets annoying (and insulting, and dangerous). But I'm sure people will welcome you to start your own thread and speak at length about your experiences, which I'm fairly sure you already have (and everyone was happy with that?).

Please continue to express your enthusiasm and positivity in being pro-active, it's a rarity around these parts and one that I personally find refreshing. Just please accept too that there are other ways to 'cure' social anxiety. I'm sure if you can make that effort we'll all get along much better and people will be more likely to accept your advice when they don't feel patronised by you.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by mi©o

..Please continue to express your enthusiasm and positivity in being pro-active, it's a rarity around these parts and one that I personally find refreshing. Just please accept too that there are other ways to 'cure' social anxiety. I'm sure if you can make that effort we'll all get along much better and people will be more likely to accept your advice when they don;t feel patronised by you.

You have had some excellent advice here DM, by taking it on board, your message will receive the attention it may deserve.

[W!llow]

I believe drugs on their own will never cure a mental/emotional illness, but I do believe they can play a part in a persons management or even recovery. I don't think it makes someone less of a person for taking drugs. If they solely rely on drugs and do nothing else then I think they are not going to do too well. I think also for many people drugs are probably not necessary at all, but I think in cases of severe depression, sa or other mental/emotional illnesses the right drug can help.

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by W!llow

I believe drugs on their own will never cure a mental/emotional illness

Well, it may surprise you to know that about 4 years ago, drugs on their own did completely cure my acute depression.

Edit: I do agree that in the case of SA, drugs alone aren't likely to succeed, but may make life easier whilst further therapies are sought.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by mi©o

I haven't seen anyone pushing medication on people here. And if I did then I'd probably have something to say about it. In fact I imagine most people here would frown on medication being pushed upon people and if anyone were to do that repeatedly they'd deserve a firm warning from the mods, if not banning.

What I see instead, is people asking advice on medication, more often than not because they've been to the doctor and received (or have been recommended) a bunch of pills they know little about. Whether that's right or wrong is a whole different argument (ironically it's the argument we started off on). But there's no one saying 'take this, it'll cure you in 60 minutes'! You catch my drift?

I'm all for different therapies. Even NLP is worth a try in my book, but like others here I'm being put off it by your constant preaching and know-it-all, guaranteed cure, 'selling' techniques. To be aware of your own ignorance and accepting that there is, always, flaws in your knowledge (no matter who you are) is a great quality to have. It means you'll always be learning something new. To deny that is to stop learning altogether, in which case you're greatly hindering your own development (and credibility).

NLP is a tool, nothing more. In the very same way CBT is a tool, or medication, or positive affirmations, or hypnosis, or meditation, or the millions of other useful tools that exist out there. They all have their place and some are better than others. There are people who are more suited to some than others too. This is a diverse world with diverse people and diverse problems, even when they come with the same labels.

You're entirely free to talk about your experiences with NLP and no one has a problem with that. But when you say 'OK, STOP! Don't do that, do THIS! For the sum of nineteen pounds and ninety nine pence you can be cured in sixty minutes!' in every thread, it gets annoying (and insulting, and dangerous). But I'm sure people will welcome you to start your own thread and speak at length about your experiences, which I'm fairly sure you already have (and everyone was happy with that?).

Please continue to express your enthusiasm and positivity in being pro-active, it's a rarity around these parts and one that I personally find refreshing. Just please accept too that there are other ways to 'cure' social anxiety. I'm sure if you can make that effort we'll all get along much better and people will be more likely to accept your advice when they don't feel patronised by you.

why on earth does everyone presume that im trying to push thinkrightnow, kabbalah and nlp on people .

trust me im not. im not trying to push anything on anyone.

ive simply thought 3 absolute godsends that are new age technology and that blow away all of the old age stuff in regards to curing SA.

i'd be selfish not to share something this good with fellow strugglers and that is exactly what im trying to do - SHARE IT, not force it on people.

whenever i see someone asking for advice in a thread i usually recommend these things but im not forcing it on anyone

its no skin off my nose if someone uses it or not

i put my veiws on the threads , i advise people and when a disagreement arises i argue the case of NLP etc....

but these is no forcing, pleasde get that into ur head, im gonna use these methods to better my own life and whever others decide to or not is none of my business and no skin of my nose but even so thats not gonna stop me trying to share it with others

no forcing seriously, stop occusing me of that

[Innervision]

Originally Posted by chaddy

Well, it may surprise you to know that about 4 years ago, drugs on their own did completely cure my acute depression.

Edit: I do agree that in the case of SA, drugs alone aren't likely to succeed, but may make life easier whilst further therapies are sought.

This is a very good point. SSRI's are not put forward as any kind of cure, but they can be something of a bridge between total despair and eventual longer term help.

By this I mean that many people are very shy of going to their doctor and put it off for long periods. They may eventually go, but often when in crisis and in need of immediate help.

The problem is that immediate help is not readily available unless we are admitted to hospital. There are waiting lists for counselling, CBT and other talking therapies and most cannot afford private treatment. This often leaves a doctor with a severely distressed patient sat in front of them begging for help. So it's no wonder that many doctors will prescribe medication there and then, but hopefully whilst also recommending counselling and seeking the patient's go-ahead to put them on the list for therapy.

So in such cases, medication (if effective to the individual concerned) can act as something of a bridge that helps the patient through until therapy is made available to them. Some studies also show that CBT works particularly well in conjunction with medication, and by the time CBT/counselling is offered, meds will have settled into the patient's system, hopefully leaving him/her in a more receptive and motivated frame of mind.

Sadly, when a person goes to their GP in real crisis, being recommended things such as CBT, self-help books, NLP, exercise, eating correctly, confidence classes etc etc.... just doesn't cut the mustard. Their head is so messed up they are in no fit state to concentrate on such things. And this is where meds can come in and become useful to those receptive to them. It's difficult to do CBT, NLP or whatever with a client who is in emotional disarray. So if meds can stabilise things the client has a far better chance of using the therapy effectively.

Just being in the therapy room is not enough. The client has to willingly engage and participate. Which is virtually impossible when that person is in immediate crisis*. If meds can calm the inner storm so the client can make use of their therapy, then they are not such a bad thing. This, of course, is very different to relying on drugs and expecting them to do all the work.

* It's not hard to counsel a client in crisis, but it is more difficult to do things like CBT or NLP with a person in crisis.

[W!llow]

Well, it may surprise you to know that about 4 years ago, drugs on their own did completely cure my acute depression.

yes it does surprise me Chaddy. As I thought if you are depressed take meds but do nothing else once you stop the meds you still have the same thought patterns to contend with. But thinking about it I suppose it may depend what is causing the depression whether it has an external rather than an internal cause. I am glad that you were able to find a complete cure anyway whatever the case.

[IN OUT GONE]

Getting away from the secondary debate going on here........

Id just like to say that prozac helped me out a good few years back when i was in a right state....... although it wasnt the answer to my sa problems or my canabis problems it did after a good few months of tabs let me see more clearly and feel alot more positive about tackling my issues.....
i personally think some of the anti-depressants are very helpful if the depressional side of sa is getting way out of hand.....But of course if you can handle your symptoms without meds then that is bloody great...
but id say if someone feels quite desperate and really unable to cope with things then id say its fine to seek medication and theres no question for me that you can get help from these meds.
Only do be carefully which ones you try as i thought after reading quite a few success stories surrounding effexor id get on it...
only to find its really a totally diferent drug to prozac and does have some wierd and nasty side effects....

not sure if this is really helpful to the thread and my scientific knowledge is pretty poor....so i just thought id add a bit of personal experience to the debate!

[david mckenna]

ive just read over this whole thread , pages 1-12, this morning.

i simply advised that there is no need to take medication cos depression can be cured in minutes with timeline therapy.

i sed that cos its true and cos its a safe way to beat depression wereas meds isn't

as soon as i sed that people started getting hostile with me and sum even insulted me (whcih has been deleted)

after that is when i started getting an attitude (rightly so)

u know wot im not arrogant , i do not have an attitude problem.

im simply advising people to use nlp, kabbalah and thinkrightnow cos these things cure ur problem at the root.

i definatley do have more courage and drive than anyone on this site cos nobody else beleuives u can beat SA. all u hear on this site is people whinging saying that the best they can hope 4 is to cope with this problem

therefore any of u new comers out there if u want any advise please ask me and don't listen to these med heads !

i pitty u fools on meds

[Pal]

Originally Posted by david mckenna

i definatley do have more courage and drive than anyone on this site cos nobody else beleuives u can beat SA. all u hear on this site is people whinging saying that the best they can hope 4 is to cope with this problem

Rubbish

Several people on here are making tremendious efforts to over come their SA, most of them aren't boasting about it. You are not the only one on here making drives to over come your SA and i'm begining to find your "i have more courage, balls and drive then anyone else here" insulting, as i suspect most people.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by Pal

Rubbish

Several people on here are making tremendious efforts to over come their SA, most of them aren't boasting about it. You are not the only one on here making drives to over come your SA and i'm begining to find your "i have more courage, balls and drive then anyone else here" insulting, as i suspect most people.

great!

there are young people around about the age of 18 that are lost and don't know were to turn. and get people on this site , who do not have the knowledge i have or the courage i have, advising them and sending them in the wrong direction.

i don't want these youngers taking the wrong advise and going in the wrong direction.

im the person who is best to advise them cos i beleive 100% i can beat this, i have the knowledge to beat ( obviuosly the other dont if they think meds is the answer) and i have more courage to beat this cos im willing to take actions that makes other quake in their boots

i just dont want incapable people giving bad advise to the vulnerable

[david mckenna]

o, and by the way ive just looked on another thread about sumeone saying they haven't had a drink in about 2 months cos they can't as they are on meds .

if u use any of the approaches ive mentioned u can drink all u want cos there is no sh!t being put into ur system with these approaches

[Pal]

I have seen no bad advise on here from anyone, none at all. Meds are a tempory solution to up someones mood and but them in a better position to tackle their problems, suggesting meds is not bad advise. Are you suggesting that a qualified psychiatrist who prescribes meds to a patient is giving out worse advise then you?

[W!llow]

i definatley do have more courage and drive than anyone on this site cos nobody else beleuives u can beat SA. all u hear on this site is people whinging saying that the best they can hope 4 is to cope with this problem

what are you doing trying some reverse psychology. Maybe you think it will fire up people to prove you wrong? Can you get help for your condition? And before you moan about being spoken to badly just think about how egotistical your words come across.

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by david mckenna

depression can be cured in minutes

Perhaps in people who think they are depressed rather than those with the imbalance of neurotransmitters associated with genuine depression. Your assertions are utterly ludicrous and not backed by science.

You may have plenty of drive and determination, essential tools for fighting SA, but realise that depression, whilst comorbid with SA, is a completely different medical condition for which drive and determination aren't necessarily going to help.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by W!llow

what are you doing trying some reverse psychology. Maybe you think it will fire up people to prove you wrong? Can you get help for your condition? And before you moan about being spoken to badly just think about how egotistical your words come across.

reverse psychology ? wot the hell are u talking mate ???????

i think ull find that my words became egotistical after people started insulting me.

my threads were fine , then i advised TLT, people got hostile and i retaliated.

i think i know exactly wot the problem is :

in biblical times jesus cud cure people at will. that is truly a wonderful thing yet the people wud not accept it. they were too sceptical and ended up crucifying jesus.

our mentality hasn't changed since them days and when i mention i truly wonderful thing (timeline therapy ) people get sceptical, and refuse to accept it just like in biblical times .

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by chaddy

Perhaps in people who think they are depressed rather than those with the imbalance of neurotransmitters associated with genuine depression. Your assertions are utterly ludicrous and not backed by science.

You may have plenty of drive and determination, essential tools for fighting SA, but realise that depression, whilst comorbid with SA, is a completely different medical condition for which drive and determination aren't necessarily going to help.

depression CAN be cured in minutes with timeline therapy.

i urge u not to listen to a word i say but to test it urself.

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by david mckenna

in biblical times jesus cud cure people at will.

...

our mentality hasn't changed since them days and when i mention i truly wonderful thing (timeline therapy ) people get sceptical, and refuse to accept it just like in biblical times .

Oh great... you're pushing miracle cures now! Miracles certainly aren't backed by science.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by chaddy

Oh great... you're pushing miracle cures now! Miracles certainly aren't backed by science.

not at all. im not comparing TLT to jesus's miracles.

all im saying is jesus curing people was wonderful

tlt is wonderful

people wudn't accept jesus's miracles and got hostile

people wont accept tlt and get hostile when i advise it

there is no comparison wot so ever between jesus miracle and tlt except the fact that they are both positive things that negative people find hard to accept

[Ben]

David, I have 90% beat SA, there are many others on their way to doing the same. When you say no one on this site believes SA is beatable, your just not correct on that one.

You need to explain, not proclaim your philosophies. You also have to not show disdain to others and entertain what they have to say.

You are banging the drum so loadly mate, people are sticking their fingers in their ears.

I do think you should stop replying to this thread, thats said as someone who truely thinks you genuinenly want to help, and have a lot of good advice in you. If what you recommend enables you to go shadow boxing in a shopping centre, and have the complete confidence you have, you certainly do have a lot of wisdom to give.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by ben

David, I have 90% beat SA, there are many others on their way to doing the same. When you say no one on this site believes SA is beatable your just not correct their.

You need to explain, not proclaim your philosophies. You also have to not show disdain to others and entertain what they have to say.

You are banging the drum so loadly mate, people are sticking their fingers in their ears.

I do think you should stop replying to this thread, thats said as someone who truely thinks you genuinenly want to help, and have a lot of good advice in you. If what you recommend enables you to go shadow boxing in a shopping centre, and have the complete confidence you have, you certainly do have a lot of wisdom to give.

i appreciate ur advise but im gonna keep banging my drum cos this is somehing that drives me - changing the view point of the world in regards to treating mental disorders.

send us a pm cos im really, really intrieged to know about ur fite against SA if u are 90% cured, maybe u have sum of ur own advise 4 me

[chaddy]

Originally Posted by david mckenna

there is no comparison wot so ever between jesus miracle and tlt except the fact that they are both positive things that negative people find hard to accept

Not only negative people, but scientists too... what a warped world we must live in. You clearly have a lot of faith in your assertions, but unless they are backed by peer reviewed double-blind controlled studies, then that's all it is David: faith.

I'm afraid that faith just doesn't cut the mustard when it is pushed not as advice, but as certainty.

[Holly]

Describing people who are genuinely desperate, vulnerable and at their wits end as to how to tackle their problems as "whinging" shows a total lack of compassion on David's part.

Also, if someone is doubtful that they will truly ever get over their problems, why does that take less "courage" than someone who does have a belief that they will? You could take it further and argue that it actually takes more courage to get up each day and get on with life, to keep facing your fears while continually suffering - rather than to do the same thing, safe in the "knowledge" that at some point there will be relief and an end to this suffering. To be fair, I don't believe you can measure someone's personal pain or judge any such "courage" they may have when dealing with their problems.

[W!llow]

reverse psychology ? wot the hell are u talking mate ???????

I meant that by saying people are sitting on their arses whinging you might hope it makes people angry enough to do something to prove you wrong and prove you're not the only one who can beat it. Anyway I'm sure you are meaning to help people I just think you might need to rethink some of the ways you go about it.

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by W!llow

I meant that by saying people are sitting on their arses whinging you might hope it makes people angry enough to do something to prove you wrong and prove you're not the only one who can beat it. Anyway I'm sure you are meaning to help people I just think you might need to rethink some of the ways you go about it.

o isee wot u mean , no there deffo is no intent of revesrse pychology there

as ive sed before it really is no skin off my nose wether people listen to me or not, im just advising people of my way so that they have the option of it thats all.

when i was struggling to fins cure 4 SA year after year after year ( for 5 whole years i tried everything from counselling, meds all that but nothing worked) i wud have been truly grateful if someone had sed to me :

''look ive got these 3 great cure for SA that cure ur problem at the root so why dont u giv them a shot ''

cos when i found those three great things myself (after 5 yers of searching ) i fell in love with them

[mi©o]

Originally Posted by david mckenna

i don't want these youngers taking the wrong advise and going in the wrong direction.

How do you know you're not going to send them in the wrong direction yourself? I'll be very surprised if you can back up an answer to that with a valid argument.

im the person who is best to advise them cos i beleive 100% i can beat this, i have the knowledge to beat ( obviuosly the other dont if they think meds is the answer) and i have more courage to beat this cos im willing to take actions that makes other quake in their boots

The only way to prove you have any kind of knowledge to beat social anxiety is to actually beat it. You haven't done that yet, have you? And yes, that's a rhetorical question, we all know the answer.

Thing is, there are people here who already have beaten it. Some of those even used meds as a tool to help them along their way. But you have more knowledge and power than these people even though they're miles further ahead than you? Please think about what you're saying before you lose the small fraction of support you have left.

And people were supporting you until you started this arrogant 'I'm right, you're all wrong....even though some of you are already cured' () tirade. Which frankly, many of us find insulting. How are people meant to take your advice seriously when you just insult them?

i just dont want incapable people giving bad advise to the vulnerable

:rolleyes: No comment.

If you do want to help anyone, then it's essential that you re-evaluate your approach to helping them. You're wasting your time at the moment.

Given the nature of the forums it's inevitable that there's going to be a lot of negativity and self-pity. That's unfortunate and I've made numerous attempts over years to inject some positivity into this place. The fact is, a leopard doesn't change its spots and you have to resign to the inevitability of the word 'inevitable'. However, I'm pretty sure there is a minority who are very much interested in bettering themselves, with the physical effort to back it up.

The one thing everyone has in common is that they'll do what they can, in their own way, when they feel ready.

That last part is important. There's an old Zen saying 'Don't answer the question until the student asks 3 times'. That's not a law to be taken literally, but is merely born from the sensible observation from thousands of years of teaching that you'll be wasting your time if the student doesn't express an interest or readiness to learn and develop his or herself. I suppose it relates to that other old saying, 'You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it'.

And if you shove the horse's nose in the water you're just going to piss it off.


p.s Some of us may begin listening to you if you start to provide detailed evidence for your absurd claims. But you allegedly having a mate who can cure depression in minutes does not count. Who's your mate, David Koresh?

[IRIS]

that's a brilliant post mico

[IN OUT GONE]

Clinical depression and sa SO cant be cured in minutes....im sorry to get involved in this but they just cant....i wouldnt say that what david suggests wouldnt help,but the wild claim that it only takes minutes to chieve relief is obserd really.

calling people 'med heads' is not really on tbh,its very negative and doesnt help anything or anyone.

im all for 'positive' talk and encouragement but totally disguarding one line of treatment for another is the wrong approach...
really an individual has to make up there own minds about what course of action they are going to take in dealing with there problems......of course references from people about possible things to try is great...but aggressive persuation is not.

of course most of us here would agree med free would be best..... but nobody should feel bad for seeking medication to help in the quest for relief of certain symptoms that plague them and there lives at certain times .....

also im afraid to say miricle cures etc do not exsist in this world of ours....

consistant hard work is the only way to achieve anything in my oppinion!

[david mckenna]

Originally Posted by mi©o

How do you know you're not going to send them in the wrong direction yourself? I'll be very surprised if you can back up an answer to that with a valid argument.



The only way to prove you have any kind of knowledge to beat social anxiety is to actually beat it. You haven't done that yet, have you? And yes, that's a rhetorical question, we all know the answer.

Thing is, there are people here who already have beaten it. Some of those even used meds as a tool to help them along their way. But you have more knowledge and power than these people even though they're miles further ahead than you? Please think about what you're saying before you lose the small fraction of support you have left.

And people were supporting you until you started this arrogant 'I'm right, you're all wrong....even though some of you are already cured' () tirade. Which frankly, many of us find insulting. How are people meant to take your advice seriously when you just insult them?



:rolleyes: No comment.

If you do want to help anyone, then it's essential that you re-evaluate your approach to helping them. You're wasting your time at the moment.

Given the nature of the forums it's inevitable that there's going to be a lot of negativity and self-pity. That's unfortunate and I've made numerous attempts over years to inject some positivity into this place. The fact is, a leopard doesn't change its spots and you have to resign to the inevitability of the word 'inevitable'. However, I'm pretty sure there is a minority who are very much interested in bettering themselves, with the physical effort to back it up.

The one thing everyone has in common is that they'll do what they can, in their own way, when they feel ready.

That last part is important. There's an old Zen saying 'Don't answer the question until the student asks 3 times'. That's not a law to be taken literally, but is merely born from the sensible observation from thousands of years of teaching that you'll be wasting your time if the student doesn't express an interest or readiness to learn and develop his or herself. I suppose it relates to that other old saying, 'You can take a horse to water, but you can;t make it drink it'.

And if you shove the horse's nose in the water you're just going to piss it off.


p.s Some of us may begin listening to you if you start to provide detailed evidence for your absurd claims. But you allegedly having a mate who can cure depression in minutes does not count. Who's your mate, David Koresh?

4 starters i dont know who david koresh is

im just about to leave this site for gud so don't worry u wont here from me again after 2day

but b4 i go i cudn't help but reply to this

mi@o question - How do you know you're not going to send them in the wrong direction yourself?

davids answer - cos my way cures SA at the root with no harmful side effects and and thousands and thousands of people will confirm that they have been cured by this.

Jamie greene (a psychotherapist) states in a kabbalah book (the book is called ''the monster is real'' if you want to check it out for evidence) that he now utilises kabbalah fully in treating students with anxiety disorders cos it only takes about 3 sessions to cure them. in his own words he actually says something like this '' the diference between kabbalah and traditional aproaches is that kabbalah cure things at the root were as tradional approaches deal with symptoms.

thats a psychotherapist giving up traditional approaches (which he has used for over 20 years) for new technology so its unlikely that a youngster will be sent in the wrong direction by listening to me especially when the road im telling them to travel doesn't have any side effects

MI@O -The only way to prove you have any kind of knowledge to beat social anxiety is to actually beat it. You haven't done that yet, have you? And yes, that's a rhetorical question, we all know the answer.

DAVID - no i haven't beaten it. i only started fighting this thing 3 motnhs ago. ive been using thinkrightnow in conjuction with facing my fears for just 3 motnhs yet in time time i have made so much progress. every friday and sunday i walk into my local pub alone ( i dont know a soul in there) and i sing karioke dressed as a scarecrow and im actually confy with it, i enjoy it with no embarassment. i shadow box in the local shopping centre infront of crowds of people and i don't give a sh!t who is watching or wot they think.
b4 these last 3 months i hadn't even been able to step foot inside a pub never mind sing karioke there and any time i went to a shopping centre id go at 9am o avoid the crowds.
i havent beaten it but in 3 motnhs ive made progress that is a massive overachievment therefore that must be proof that i have at least sum knowledge on how to beat this thing

MI@O - Thing is, there are people here who already have beaten it. Some of those even used meds as a tool to help them along their way. But you have more knowledge and power than these people even though they're miles further ahead than you? Please think about what you're saying before you lose the small fraction of support you have left.

DAVID - these people are miles ahead cos theyve actually beaten it and im only 3 motnhs into my journey but let me ask u can these people shadow box infront of crowds of people even though they are cure? can they go and sing karioke without getting embarassed? how long did it take them to get to were they are now? years im guesing? well in 3 months ive made so much progress that it frightens me wot ill be like after ive spent as much time beating this as all of them who already have beaten it have . ill probably be a bloody extrovert.

MI@O - And people were supporting you until you started this arrogant 'I'm right, you're all wrong....even though some of you are already cured' () tirade. Which frankly, many of us find insulting. How are people meant to take your advice seriously when you just insult them?

DAVID - i think u'll find that my threads were fine until i mention TLT and then people got hostile and started insulting me , so i then became insulting back and ''arrogant''


MI@O - That last part is important. There's an old Zen saying 'Don't answer the question until the student asks 3 times'. That's not a law to be taken literally, but is merely born from the sensible observation from thousands of years of teaching that you'll be wasting your time if the student doesn't express an interest or readiness to learn and develop his or herself. I suppose it relates to that other old saying, 'You can take a horse to water, but you can;t make it drink it'.

And if you shove the horse's nose in the water you're just going to piss it off.

DAVID - for the last time , for gods sake how many times do i have to keep saying this - im not shoving this down peoples throats.
i seen a thread on meds were people think that putting chemicals in their body helps. im aware of timeline therapy (which lots of people arent even aware of) which CAN cure depression in minutes. i wud be selfish not to bring it up so i mentioned it. then people started slating it so i argued its case.
i will advise people to use it but ITS NO SKIN OFF MY NOSE WETHER THEY DO OR NOT. im not forcing anything

MI@O - p.s Some of us may begin listening to you if you start to provide detailed evidence for your absurd claims. But you allegedly having a mate who can cure depression in minutes does not count.

DAVID - my mate is just one of thousands of nlp practionaires who can and HAVE cured depression in minutes.

thousands of people have been cured by NLP so if that is not evidence then i dont know wot is. do you think all of these people who have been cured by it just lie ??????
have u seen paul mckenna's programme on sky 1 were he cures loads of peoples problems with NLP? are these people just actors ????????