"random pictures of yourself" thread seems odd to me

[-Simon-]

I've been described as handsome (not recently mind, the years have not been kind) and it made very little difference to my ability to connect with others. On a similar note, I have also been fairly wealthy at one stage and it didn't buy me happiness. I think if I was absolutely butt-ugly and piss-poor I, personally, would find life that bit harder but it doesn't seem to automatically follow that confidence is directly linked to appearance. I think for many who, like me, are overly self-conscious appearance can seem more important than it is to others. If I could develope more confidence in my social skills that would do more for my quality of life than looks or money.

[Mogwai]

Originally Posted by blackholesoul

i think some of you need to go and watch how people interact socially, then maybe you'll agree a bit more with me, but I frequently see strangers approaching one another - most will exchange a few words and forget it, but for some there is a connection....ask yourself, why did they approach that person in the first place...

I'll make you a deal! I'll honestly go out with an open mind and watch people interacting to see if more attractive people are approached more often...if you also go out willing to accept your reasoning may be flawed and try to see whether there may be more to what you are seeing. What did you think to my previous suggestion about confidence and body language playing a bigger part in it? I don't suppose any of the attractive people you saw approached were slunched over looking sorry for themselves, do you see what I mean?

Originally Posted by Cynic

As someone said in another thread? Women want guys with well paid jobs, so effectively, men do pay for sex.

Your comments always give me a giggle, cynic! but did you actually read any of that other thread?

Originally Posted by AAAli

But if you are soo good looking that a random photographer takes a photo of you sparks a hunt for you then I doubt you can have much sa.
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven...ie_is_dit.html

She is both smiling and confident. You may still think her attractive if she was otherwise (especially still in the bikini lol) but nobody would be going on any hunt for her.

[hardy]

Any "good " quality such as looks or intelligence etc are a help towards attraction . The problem is that soome of you think theyre far more important than they really are . Dont suggest that goodlooking Saers shouldn't have SA . Change your mindset that good looks is such a ( big) advantage.

[AAAli]

No...they dont. Maybe at school the popular gang were the good looking kids, but people do grow up to value character and the richer tapestry to life. If i had friends who were simply asking me to go out with them because of what i looked like, id tell them where to go.

Its a very shallow, and peculiar way of looking at things.
I have plenty of friends who i dont term as 'Good looking' who i always ask to come out with me because they are 'NICE' people, and fun to be around.

They do get more opportunities to be social!
For example a good looking girl at school who just moved would get much more opportunities than an ugly girl moving to that school. I'm not saying they don't get any opportunities. i'm also not saying that people choose their friends based on looks as that is not true.
I am not pessimistic at all, if you think they are treated equal you are not living in reality.

Sounds like your saying if you're good looking then having SA is your fault.

No what I am saying is no matter what you look like SA is YOUR FAULT! its noone elses fault but your own. People may have done some bad stuff to you. But it is you that proccesss that information and you that makes you shy because of that.
Its noone elses fault but your own. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility.

She is both smiling and confident. You may still think her attractive if she was otherwise (especially still in the bikini lol) but nobody would be going on any hunt for her.

Smiling is not a sign that you are not shy. I smile all the time, I smile more than I talk. Doesn't mean I am any less shy just that I show it in a different way and not depressed like many shy people are. I still think they would be on the hunt for her, the thing is you just can't tell it is in their mind.

[Mogwai]

Originally Posted by AAAli

Smiling is not a sign that you are not shy. I smile all the time, I smile more than I talk. Doesn't mean I am any less shy just that I show it in a different way and not depressed like many shy people are. I still think they would be on the hunt for her, the thing is you just can't tell it is in their mind.

That wasn't actually my point but I can see that I could have worded it more carefully, sorry. I wasn't really commenting on shyness at all. I simply meant that there is more to those photos you linked to than just being good looking and I agree with hardy's last post that looks aren't quite as helpful as some believe. Although I may disagree with you on this, I would like to add that I don't think you are being negative and I'd actually already noticed from your posts that you seem to be a very positive person.

[GhostOnMagneticTape]

This post is not directed at any individual but after reading this thread and the responses it seems like a small minority (on the Internet as a whole) like to be complimented especially over the Internet using photos of themselves to feel temporarily better? A photo is obviously 2-dimensional, like a cover of a book so in reality you are only seeing in some cases a colourfully painted visual reflection of a person in soft light choosing the angle they look at. I think anyone, literally anyone can look visually stunning and attractive if they make the effort with the correct tools but unfortunately bears artificial resemblance of how they look in every day life through the eyes of people, not a computer screen (if that makes sense?).

Another point is, how many of us receive the compliments we seek on the Internet compared to real life? I think maybe because we are socially anxious and spend time alone (especially if we are single and not in any form of relationship) away from social situations, we rely on the Internet for a bombardment of compliments about our appearances for constant confirmations and reassurances to help boost confidence, now... I know people will say "Is there anything wrong in doing that?" Well initially no but then is it mentally and emotionally healthy to rely time after time on superficial compliments about our appearances to boost confidence instead of tackling our core issues concerning social anxiety and depression?

When I receive compliments (which is hardly ever), I think "yeah whatever" and never sink in as I'm dubious about peoples' honesty and think they are patronising. Plus I dislike having my photo taken for various reasons.

[IRIS]

not read the whole thread as there is too many words for me But I had a think about why I hav posted pics, I suppose it is to give me a good feeling. I feel so totally ugly and I feel very brave when I post a pic, it's kind of like CBT, do the thing that scares you and it will get easier. I hate hate pictures of me , so when I post a pic of myself it is like i have made an achievemant, I have faced the demons and put my ugly mush online, and that is a kick in the balls to SA.
edit - having read the above post - my good feeling about posting a pic is not due to anyone elses comments about it, just the fact I have shown a photo of me in public, comments or not often feels like a mini triumph.

[IRIS]

Originally Posted by moose

Iris, you don't post enough pics IMO and moosie is rather pissed off about it

give me a pic of your willy and you can have as many pics of me as you like LOL

[Pal]

Originally Posted by AAAli

No what I am saying is no matter what you look like SA is YOUR FAULT! its noone elses fault but your own. People may have done some bad stuff to you. But it is you that proccesss that information and you that makes you shy because of that.
Its noone elses fault but your own. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility.

No no no no no no, i'm sorry i can't agree. I don't see that we should ever be blamed or put at fault for having SA. Why is it our fault?

I agree that it's our responsibility to change our attitude but tackling it but fault shouldn't be down to us.

[AAAli]

Originally Posted by Pal

No no no no no no, i'm sorry i can't agree. I don't see that we should ever be blamed or put at fault for having SA. Why is it our fault?

I agree that it's our responsibility to change our attitude but tackling it but fault shouldn't be down to us.

I don't think its very constructive blaming other people for your issues. It was you that let them become issues in the first place.

So if i had to have someone to blame it would be myself. it was my fault that I avoided stuff when I was younger and did other stuff that contributed to me sa. But I didn't know any better.

Not that I use this as a way to get me down, I don't feel negative towards myself because I made me who I am today I feel that I did the best I could and you can't plan for everything. it helps me realise that what I what I do today will shape who I am tomorrow.

So I recognise that it was me that gave myself sa but i don't have negative feelings about myself because of it.

[Pal]

Originally Posted by AAAli

I don't think its very constructive blaming other people for your issues. It was you that let them become issues in the first place.

So if i had to have someone to blame it would be myself. it was my fault that I avoided stuff when I was younger and did other stuff that contributed to me sa. But I didn't know any better.

Not that I use this as a way to get me down, I don't feel negative towards myself because I made me who I am today I feel that I did the best I could and you can't plan for everything. it helps me realise that what I what I do today will shape who I am tomorrow.

So I recognise that it was me that gave myself sa but i don't have negative feelings about myself because of it.

No i don't agree, i don't think it automatically means that you aren't being constructive by blaming others for your situations and frequently we couldn't really help becoming SA in the first place. Also by blaming ourselves it suggests that we did something wrong when actually we didn't and it puts focus away from the real issues that cause people to become SA in the first place.

[AAAli]

Well I don't think blame itself is constructive at all. What happened happened, let the past stay in the past. Why would blaming someone for what they did in the past help?

[W!llow]

Is this true for most people? I don't think a photo of me would reveal much about what I am like as a person.

Well it can tell you certain things I don't think it tells you whether someone is a decent human being worthy of more attention put it that way.

[hardy]

Of course a picture reveals a lot about you . A movie reveals a lot more. Nobodys saying it reveals a huge amount.
Its this revelation that many SAers fear thats why they hate their photos or refuse to show them. Which is ironic because generally others see you completely differently than you see yourself. This is always especially true if youre a self hater or a self lover.

[mustafa]

Basically if you're good looking you will have more opportunities in life, man or woman. Classic scene from the office to back up my point

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MaOdzi...eature=related

Doesn't mean you can't have sa - thats simply not true as we all know sa comes from many factors.

I can't see any problem with folks putting pics up to get compliments or to help with insecurity or whatever. Obviously this isn't a good long term option and deeper issues need to be resolved. I know plenty of women, for example, who put pics up on dating sites for a few days, just to get some positive comments (esp after a break up) and yet have no intention of dating. It's quite common thing to do even for 'normals'.. everyone needs a pick me up from time to time.

I can sympathise with the poster and where he's coming from. A lot of people on here probably think their ugly because they have had no experience with the opposite sex. The acid test is with the opposite sex; it doesn't matter how many friends you have your friends don't choose you for your looks but when it comes to relationships - initially especially looks are important. Most people are not going to date someone who they are not pysically attracted to.

And this is where attractive people have the benefit, good looking women and men get more opportunities to date because the other person will give you the chance to impress. A woman will say to me 'he's fit' and would be willing to go on a date with said person hoping his personality is attractive to her. If you're ugly you probably don't get that chance.. unless you're reasonably confident enough to initiate in the usual ways. Of course I'm not saying unattractive people don't date or don't get the chance to, but you have to show a lot more of your personality to get there. Generally.

The way to get out of thinking negatively about oneself, is to accept that your thinking is irrational in the first place, despite what past experiences have taught you and then to try and take steps to take risks, smile use open body language, ask someone out... this will in turn lead to oppotunities to date and improve and become more accepting of yourself and your attractiveness.

Originally Posted by abc2

I realise this is irrelevent to the rest of the thread, but this comment made me think. Is this true for most people? I don't think a photo of me would reveal much about what I am like as a person.

A girl posing and pouting with beer in her hand on a night out with her girl friends to a pic where she's with her mate at an art gallery... would give you a completely different impression of that person.

Originally Posted by AAAli

I don't think its very constructive blaming other people for your issues. It was you that let them become issues in the first place.

How does the person let it become their problem? How can a child who has had abusive parents or been bullied in school be blamed for their anxiety? Ok when you get to a certain age it's time to accept you have issues that need to be dealt with and to take responsibility for your predicament.
In your case what caused you to be avoidant? In some situations sa maybe be the persons fault ie taking drugs which then leads to paranioa and anxiety. But for many people SA becomes a part of them at a very young age, where it is impossible for them to do anything about it.

[Pal]

Originally Posted by mustafa

Basically if you're good looking you will have more opportunities in life, man or woman. Classic scene from the office to back up my point

No, not nessecerily.

[GhostOnMagneticTape]

Maybe if someone follows a (socially) superficial/hedonistic lifestyle then yes I guess they might have more opportunities to gain personal satisfaction if one is "good looking" but there is so much more to life than that.

I think it ultimately boils down to choice and direction of the lifestyle an individual wants. Society is so focused nowadays on image, status, sex, money, materialism and so on no wonder people feel shit because they are unable to "have it all" like the small minority in the public eye.

[LexSless]

I liked this post alot:

Originally Posted by hardy

good looks etc dont count for nothing but lets say you need 100 points for social success they count say 10 points max not 80 points like the starter of this thread thinks. He doesnt really want to insult the people in the pics . he just needs desparatly to hang onto his idea that looks , money etc are mega important as these things he cannot change . If he didnt have this theory He might worry that the real answer must therefore be faults or weaknesses in his own personality .

By the way the self weakness or badness theory is wrong too!

Also by the way .i've been on this site long enough and to enough meets to know that SA peoples appearances are just the same on average as anyone else .

i think enough people have disagreed with the OP now for me to think that echoing that dissent isnt really necessary!!

If youre good looking and of an inclination to do so you can use looks to your advantage. But actually if you take the problems of SA i.e. that of being scrutinised in social situations then (and i think it was Chris26 who touched on this point) being in social situations and inviting more attention (even if it's conventionlaly 'positive' attention, that of people assessing your looks with a thumbs up) can quite conceivably make you feel worse because youre more likely to be forced into a situation, e.g. a conversation, that you fear.

Thats true of me- I feel particularly qualified to say this because i AM decent looking and my perception of this doesnt change though my SA fluctuates a lot! When i feel more socially confident i can use my looks to my advantage when i get favourable attention but when i'm very much unconfident socially then attention from women, no matter how good looking they are and how favourable it initially is, is the LAST thing i want because i'm so concious of how it'll expose my social failings.

Whilst i'd much rather carry on working out and maintaining my looks because it's better for my social confidence OVERALL, many don't have the luxury of fluctuating social confidence and are stuck at the bottom end of that and would actually gain no benefit in SA terms from being better looking.

from what i've seen in the photos threads the number of women i'd go for physically is definitely in the minority. But then that's also true away from this site. I'd love to big up SA women and say they're loads more physically attractive on the whole than women elsewhere but the spread's the same as anywhere else. On average, not uglier, not prettier.

[AAAli]

And this is where attractive people have the benefit, good looking women and men get more opportunities to date because the other person will give you the chance to impress. A woman will say to me 'he's fit' and would be willing to go on a date with said person hoping his personality is attractive to her. If you're ugly you probably don't get that chance.. unless you're reasonably confident enough to initiate in the usual ways. Of course I'm not saying unattractive people don't date or don't get the chance to, but you have to show a lot more of your personality to get there. Generally.

Exactly.

How does the person let it become their problem? How can a child who has had abusive parents or been bullied in school be blamed for their anxiety? Ok when you get to a certain age it's time to accept you have issues that need to be dealt with and to take responsibility for your predicament.
In your case what caused you to be avoidant? In some situations sa maybe be the persons fault ie taking drugs which then leads to paranioa and anxiety. But for many people SA becomes a part of them at a very young age, where it is impossible for them to do anything about it.

Well i have never been abused or taken drugs etc. I can only speak from what happened to me, so if people want to blame other people for their sa it is obviously up to them but I just don't see a benifit in it. I just think people need to take responsibility that life is what they make it and what they do now directly effects their future.

As I said before it is not very useful to blame yourself and let that get you down. I don't think you should ever not forgive yourself for something you did in the past. But you should still take responsibility and that your future is under your control.

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by AAAli

No what I am saying is no matter what you look like SA is YOUR FAULT! its noone elses fault but your own. People may have done some bad stuff to you. But it is you that proccesss that information and you that makes you shy because of that.
Its noone elses fault but your own. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility.

You see there lies a difference in our thinking you think SA is your own fault whereas I don't think it's anyone's fault. Not yours, not mine, not your parents. It just 'is'. There are a myriad number of reasons for every person who suffers from this and they aren't all the same by a long stretch.

I do agree that you have a responsibility to try and help yourself as best you can but I steer clear of blaming anyone, especially yourself. Because otherwise you can end up hating yourself and seeing yourself as a failure and that isn't going to help either.

[AAAli]

Originally Posted by deeshow

You see there lies a difference in our thinking you think SA is your own fault whereas I don't think it's anyone's fault. Not yours, not mine, not your parents. It just 'is'. There are a myriad number of reasons for every person who suffers from this and they aren't all the same by a long stretch.

I do agree that you have a responsibility to try and help yourself as best you can but I steer clear of blaming anyone, especially yourself. Because otherwise you can end up hating yourself and seeing yourself as a failure and that isn't going to help either.

Yeah i do agree that blaming anyone including yourself is a waste of time. I don't actually blame myself but I do recognise that it is up to me to change.

[Peyre]

I tend to agree with the OP, well not agree, but I can slip into thinking that way about some people with SA on here who are quite good looking.

My SA is almost entirely about my looks, I just can't help thinking that if I looked even remotely like some of you SA'ers who are more confident about their appearance (and with good reason), that my SA would by minimal shyness at best. I would say BDD is more prevelant than SA for me.

But each case of SA has different roots, many similarities, but different roots, causes and effects.

Infact I don't look at that thread any more because it makes me feel crap that I don't have the confidence to post pics of myself, just got a staff id card done at work and I can't stand looking at it, and I hide it because people always want to see things like that. I don't feel I do look as bad as I can do in pictures, its just that I don't feel normal and can't look or act normally when a camera is on me so I will always look slighty odd.

At my sisters wedding, I was extremely happy for her, and I could smile and laugh when in a conversation with people, get up a give a best man's speech, but as soon as the photographer wanted us in a shot, i just stood there looking constipated and couldn't laugh or smile.

[whateverwhatever44]

Originally Posted by Peyre

My SA is almost entirely about my looks, I just can't help thinking that if I looked even remotely like some of you SA'ers who are more confident about their appearance (and with good reason), that my SA would by minimal shyness at best. I would say BDD is more prevelant than SA for me.

But each case of SA has different roots, many similarities, but different roots, causes and effects.

Infact I don't look at that thread any more because it makes me feel crap that I don't have the confidence to post pics of myself, just got a staff id card done at work and I can't stand looking at it, and I hide it because people always want to see things like that. I don't feel I do look as bad as I can do in pictures, its just that I don't feel normal and can't look or act normally when a camera is on me so I will always look slighty odd.

I'm exactly the same man, I didn't even goto my brothers wedding a few years ago because of it and in the last 15 years I have zero photos of me apart from the ones online which isn't many, but more recently I've started to be bit more positive and have a '**** it, this is me, I can't change it' type of attitude.

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by whateverwhatever44

'**** it, this is me'

that's a really big milestone to reach. a lot of the rest gets easier from there.

[whateverwhatever44]

Originally Posted by threadbare

that's a really big milestone to reach. a lot of the rest gets easier from there.

Yeah, I've realised I have to take these steps as it's the only way forward really, I see people out who are in the same uglyish category as me with girlfriends so I've just gotta get over it and start moving forward, easier said then done of course but it's a start.

And I start CBT this month, too

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by whateverwhatever44

And I start CBT this month, too