Does anyone else have deep psychological issues around careers?

[choirgirl]

Like you just can't make it happen, they're not for you, you don't know what to do because you're bad at everything, some kind of poor attitude because of past failures or some disappointed expectation (that someone was going to hold your hand and show you the ropes, not plunge you into the deep end while you drowned,) or you'd have a Come to Jesus moment of knowing what you should do with your work life and somehow it would work out? (That last one is obviously some kind of myth that doesn't apply to most.)

Ramble on, my friends. Don't leave me rambling alone.

Do you think anyone can advise on this sort of thing? I genuinely have some deep rooted issues here and I don't know what the **** they are. Most doors are long closed by now, maybe there's no point thinking about it. Where would I go for advice and also psychological advice?

[Sunrise]

Having a career sounds like my worst nightmare. It feels like it would be the worst possible combination of intense boredom and constant pressure. I don't know what I would do anyway? I can't imagine having any sort of white collar job. I think I'd last about 10 seconds in an office before either diving head first into the water cooler or aiming a fully loaded stapler at my temple.

I don't feel any shame or regret for not having a career. I don't come from the sort of background where my family had careers so it was never expected of me. Plus I'm not the sharpest tool in the box so doing anything skilled wasn't really an option. I don't think I've underachieved. At one point I thought I would never work so holding down any sort of job is a big achievement for me

I do sometimes wish I had tried to learn a trade when I was young, I think that might have suited me better. Unfortunately it's something very difficult to get into when you're older as the most common route is apprenticeships which are basically for 16-18 year olds. If you're older companies don't get the same funding to take you on so it's very difficult to get into. I also don't have the money to retrain, it would cost me thousands.

I suppose it's never too late to do anything, but it is a lot more difficult, expensive and high risk when you're older.

[indignant misanthrope]

I have never really cared for it, I watched my father toil away in a career he hated just so he could chase money which he put into savings for himself, and my mother chase a career while ignoring the emotional needs of us kids. it was like this weird dysfunctional focus that they both had to avoid doing anything family orientated that us kids needed growing up. I have also watched the trend of how a career isn't really the same now vs when they were younger and there are no real jobs for life. how the mega rich have generally made social mobility more of an impossible goal for someone who wants to make a living doing a modest job. how whole industries which I would have liked to have worked in and could have had a good standard of living have shifted away to more social roles and the services industry which I don't really want any part of. also how the current model of a career all props up a global system which I believe is failing 99 percent of people and simply makes the divide between the rich and poor greater. combine that with the fact I am terrible under pressure, have never wanted subordinates working for me. the only thing I feel bad about in this area is the fact I never really met my families expectations and I probably won't achieve as much as them, but there are factors that are largely out of my control and I need to remind myself of those each time I get a bit depressed about it.

[Jam do Bronx]

No, I've never had one. I don't need one at the moment and hopefully I won't ever need one in the future. Like, I've always been physically fit and able, I'm very self-sufficient and capable of looking after myself, and I think I always will be, so there has never been a need for me to worry about having a carer.

[anxiouslondoner]

I have deep psychological issues about everything.

But a career is something I've somehow managed to maintain for over 20 years, despite constantly feeling like I'm just "winging it" and someone will notice eventually.
God forbid nobody figures out that I have no idea what I'm doing.
But that must mean that they don't know what I'm doing either. So maybe they don't know what they are doing? Maybe nobody does!

[Tembo]

It’s one of my major issues. The whole world of work stresses me out so much.

I’d just like a simple job really. Where I’m given a task and just get on with it on my own. But many of those are poorly paid, with long shifts. I’m never going to be able to move out of my Mum’s house and get more independence. Even people I know with well paid jobs are still living at home as they can’t afford to move out.

I should really be finding a job which uses my skills with my university degree. But these jobs require a huge amount of dedication and are very competitive.

I tried training to be a teacher, but even with really friendly tutors, and a lot of support, I really struggled with the training - there was a huge amount to think about and my brain just wanted to explode. I struggled enough just with the general admin - filling out all the forms, getting references, finding placements, sorting the funding out. I also know being a teacher is not for me - you have to get up and perform, be really enthusiastic and engaging to the kids. talk to parents which can sometimes be very difficult. Many of the really extroverted teachers find it stressful enough. You also have to give up a lot of your free time, as no teacher works their contracted hours - they work a lot more.

The thought of my future makes me feel sick, so I just take each day as it comes - but that’s not a good long term strategy. I’m now incredibly anxious after writing all that.

[Orwell20]

Yeah, a bit. Whether we like it or not, you sort of are your job. People judge you by your income and job title. You can feel them weighing you up when you first meet. I swear people only pursue a career so they can’t be belittled/patronised at barbecues and dinner parties.

I’ve never really had a clue what to do with my life. Truth is, like most people I’m a talentless mediocrity, so there was a limit to what I could do anyway. Also, I was utterly hopeless at all the STEM subjects, which cut me off from quite a few careers.

I have an MA in literature, but I’ve never done anything with it. The only realistic options were teaching or journalism. Unfortunately, journalism is fiercely competitive, and I never had the slightest desire to be a teacher. I know, 100%, that I would have hated it. Every teacher I’ve ever met is stressed and depressed. I had vague dreams of joining the Royal Navy or the army, but I know I couldn’t have handled the social side. I also toyed with joining the police, but I suspect I’d have hated that too.

The upside to not having a partner or kids or lots of friends is that no one really cares about my empty joke of a life. No one shames or humiliates me at family get-togethers or neighbourhood barbecues, because I never go to any!! I just live happily in a little bubble of fantasy, books and TV.

I have lots of regrets, but not pursuing a career isn’t one of them. Even now, in my 40s, I still haven’t a clue what I want. Like I said, there isn’t really much I could have done. I was never going to be a wildlife photographer, or a marine biologist, or an astronomer, or a famous writer, etc. My destiny was to be an English teacher at a crappy secondary school in the outskirts of London, getting through each day thanks to Prozac and xanax.

[biscuits]

Not really. Doing something I enjoy and am passionate about has always been the main motivation for me.

If I want to do something, I'll stick with it no matter what because I know I find things ever so difficult in the beginning because I'm such a nervous person! I'll be sick each morning - sort of nerves! But I know that after a few months it will get easier. Sometimes I have a lot of determination.

It definitely goes the other way though. If I don't want to do something because I'm too scared etc. then I'm very avoidant and the determination to avoid it is just as strong as when I want to achieve something!!

I see SA as a beast to constantly be battled with. I try very hard to focus on the goal I'd like to achieve in order to motivate myself into thinking about what I want, not what SA won't allow me to do. Then I think about what is going to happen to me (the being sick, feel anxious, being quiet) and think about ways I can manage that. I think about things I'm going to tell myself to keep going and to stop thoughts of wanting to give up. Then after a while those things don't happen any more because of the constant exposure and time makes them lessen. It's hard but that's what I do - if I've decided I want to do something. If I've talked myself into thinking I can't do something then that is where I submit

[ryan2032]

I'm nearly in my 40s and knew a long time ago I wouldn't have career and i can't see it happening now. It feels like I have spent my whole life worrying about everything else let alone trying to get a career. I think a trade would have suited me, work your own hours while self employed but that will costs thousands to train for.

You deffiantly get judged by your job and income but I have very limited people these days I speak to so just have the dissapointed/embarrassment of my immediate family. No point in dating because who would want to date a middle aged guy with no income or career, at my age your mostly judged on your career so that much pretty ends it there.

[3stacks]

It's one of my main fears because I'm mostly housebound so I didn't go to college or literally anything and I'm terribly at literally everything. I also fear that I've left everything too late and now I'm done for

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[Sunrise]

Not everyone judges you because of your job or income, and the people that do tend to be odious Thatcherite types who are obsessed with status, one-upmanship and flaunting their wealth and achievements. That's not something I want to aspire to at all and I'm proud that I'm not like that. I have no interest in impressing people like that whatsoever.

Having a job/career that you enjoy and find fulfilling is a good goal, although this isn't possible for everyone and you shouldn't feel ashamed if you don't as the reality is most jobs are pretty mundane at best. Personal satisfaction should be the aim rather than impressing others.

[Dougella]

^ It's interesting that we found as a society during the pandemic that some of the jobs that are considered to have the least "status" are actually the most important, like supermarket workers, delivery drivers, rubbish collectors, cleaners, carers, bus drivers, teaching assistants, etc.

[indignant misanthrope]

^ precisely, and these are the jobs that are either underfunded or understaffed or worst paid. it shows us everything which is wrong with the modern system we have. you can't have a top down system if the groundwork has no support.

^^ yes, these are exactly the sorts of people I want to avoid. historically they have been the people that have judged me the worst and had the least amount of sympathy and compassion.

[Tonkin]

I'm thinking about getting a proper job again after 10+ years working self-employed/freelance.

The thought terrifies and depressed me but I feel like I need a change. There's only so much you can achieve working by yourself.

[Marco]

I think anyone who is debilitated with social anxiety will really struggle to have a fulfilling career, or even just the semblance of one. Certainly, if you want to become a high-flyer in the service industry or in a corporate business structure you need to be able to deal with people reasonably confidently at all levels. These days the emphasis in most workplaces is on good communication skills, being a good team player, dealing with clients and so on - soft skills that can be very difficult to develop if your confidence is shot, for whatever reason, and you’re crippled with social anxiety and self-doubt. I think it can be deeply frustrating and indeed profoundly depressing for SA sufferers who may not lack in ability or qualifications, but just cannot believe in themselves to climb the career ladder, instead ducking and diving to avoid socially challenging situations attached to taking on more senior roles. The avoidance naturally leads to shame, despair and even self-loathing, which are indeed deep psychological issues.

[Consolida]

^ It is truly heartbreaking how so many highly qualified and skilled people are stuck in dead end boring jobs or are unable to go to work at all because they suffer with SA and have zero confidence. So much potential wasted

I failed miserably in the world of work, thanks to my debilitating social anxiety, and it's something, even to this day, that I feel immense regret and some bitterness over. I've been spending a considerable amount of time visiting hospitals over the past year or so and I still have thoughts of if only...

If only I hadn't allowed my SA to stand in my way when I was about to start training to become a fully qualified Nurse, If only I had found the guts to stand up to some of the work bullies, if only I'd had the courage to report certain things in the workplace that today would have resulted in people being sacked at the very least. If only I hadn't been born me!

I did try working for the social services as a volunteer but I didn't find my social anxiety any less troublesome just because the work was unpaid. People still have the same expectations of you when it's comes to social interaction whether they are paying you or not.

Instead of a fulfilling career or even an ordinary 9 to 5 job, I've ended up being the sort of person that most of Society would call a 'work shy good for nothing loser' and even now when the boat has long sailed for me to make any positive changes I'll always feel a huge sense of shame for failing to achieve what most people are able to do in life.

So, yeah, you could say that I have deep psychological issues when it comes to careers (and everything else come to that)
Please don't quote!

[biscuits]

Originally Posted by 3stacks

It's one of my main fears because I'm mostly housebound so I didn't go to college or literally anything and I'm terribly at literally everything. I also fear that I've left everything too late and now I'm done for

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Hey, don't write yourself off, 3stacks

Sometimes it takes us a little bit longer to get to where we'd like to be. And that's okay.

[Jam do Bronx]

^ Facts.

[Jam do Bronx]

^ I felt like a teenager saying that.

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ It's interesting that we found as a society during the pandemic that some of the jobs that are considered to have the least "status" are actually the most important, like supermarket workers, delivery drivers, rubbish collectors, cleaners, carers, bus drivers, teaching assistants, etc.

[Dougella]

^ Yes indeed.

[Amara 94]

^^ trade jobs don’t look glamorous but from what I’ve heard are usually well paid. I think I have done low skilled jobs which pay close to minimum wage. But it sometimes seems like skill is replaced with something like processing speed in such jobs.

[Amara 94]

With my issues and work though I feel that we can attach our self image to a job in this culture and that can be unhealthy if we find it hard to keep a job. Finding it hard to hold down a job doesn’t make one a bad person if they have social difficulties for example. But they may think they are somehow bad or inferior because of how society sees work.

[choirgirl]

I suppose I wanted to live a simple, honest life but not a shitty one, but that's a bit of an ambition these days. But I also felt under pressure to do better than that. But that was just too hard for me. I've always had a serious lack of direction as an adult. Security and independence don't come cheap, that's for sure, and that's what I most care about in all honesty. Wish I'd figured that out earlier! I'll always be embarrassed I think but it's less of an issue than the practical effect of being a low achiever or even the psychological effect. Tbh, most jobs involve intense boredom or stress for me! The thought of finding something satisfying seems difficult, but I think there can be some satisfaction in doing a job well, and being appreciated (although there's nothing that says thank you like a good pay cheque.) That's good stuff Biscuits, on SA related issues. I do think I couldn't keep up with a lot of work social stuff let alone other stuff without my brain frying. I do wish I'd realised how limited my abilities were earlier without feeling bad about it. I also don't think anyone should give up too soon.

[limey123]

Originally Posted by Marco

...if you want to become a high-flyer in the service industry or in a corporate business structure you need to be able to deal with people reasonably confidently at all levels. These days the emphasis in most workplaces is on good communication skills, being a good team player, dealing with clients and so on - soft skills that can be very difficult to develop if your confidence is shot, for whatever reason, and you’re crippled with social anxiety and self-doubt. I think it can be deeply frustrating and indeed profoundly depressing for SA sufferers who may not lack in ability or qualifications, but just cannot believe in themselves to climb the career ladder, instead ducking and diving to avoid socially challenging situations attached to taking on more senior roles. The avoidance naturally leads to shame, despair and even self-loathing, which are indeed deep psychological issues.

This nails it, I think! Rising up the corporate (or other) ladder I suspect will be largely off-limits to many (most?) SA sufferers. This is partly because so many work-skills are social-based as well as skills-based.

I've had a career for the past more than 20 years, but most of that time it's let me avoid the corporate rat race, and people in general, come to think of it. Convenient for me, but I realise I've probably missed out on many opportunities (even if I wouldn't have been in a position to capitalise on them anyway). I have two post-grad quals from prestigious institutions, among various other quals, and while they were instrumental in getting me my current career, as Marco mentioned, you might be able to get quals, or have skills, but they are of little use if you lack the confidence or ability to leverage them and deal with the soft skills that are often coexistent with their application.

I'm (so it appears right now) about to start an entirely different and new job next week. It's a job provided by a temp agency and from the outside, it might appear to others that I'll be underemployed/over-experienced and people have indeed said as much. But it may well be all I'm able to manage in "outside industry" and all I ever will, i.e. low wage but with low expectations on me, too. So, no presentations or projects, no meetings, no business trips, little face-to-face client time, and so on.

[Sunrise]

Wealth, class and connections are the most important attributes required when it comes to "climbing the career ladder". The reality is that the top jobs are out of reach for a lot of people, SA or no SA. Nobody should feel ashamed for not being a high flyer because the fact is it's an unacheivable goal for a lot of people.

Nobody should feel any shame, despair or self-loathing for doing a low paid job. A lot of those jobs are providing essential services, and come with there own pressures and demands and often involve long hours and high workloads. Anybody willing to do that should be proud of themselves. The ones who should be ashamed of themselves are those who look down their noses at low paid workers. They're the ones who are keeping the world turning.

Very few people end up doing their dream job. Nobody grows up wanting to work in a care home, but those who do, and do so for very little reward, should feel proud of themselves. And low pay doesn't mean a job is easy, it's often quite the opposite. Working in a care home might involve a different kind of challange to working for Goldman Sachs, but it still involves challenges, pressure, and various other kinds of stress and obstacles. And it's the same for lots of jobs. I find my low-paid, low-skilled job incredibly challenging, but if anyone suggested I do it because I find it easy or am in some way avoiding things I'd be really insulted because everyday is still a huge challenge.

Trying not to compare yourself to others is probably the answer. Just because someone wears a more expensive suit than you doesn't make you less of a person than them.

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

Nobody should feel any shame, despair or self-loathing for doing a low paid job. A lot of those jobs are providing essential services, and come with there own pressures and demands and often involve long hours and high workloads. Anybody willing to do that should be proud of themselves. The ones who should be ashamed of themselves are those who look down their noses at low paid workers. They're the ones who are keeping the world turning.

Very few people end up doing their dream job. Nobody grows up wanting to work in a care home, but those who do, and do so for very little reward, should feel proud of themselves. And low pay doesn't mean a job is easy, it's often quite the opposite.

I agree with all of that. Care workers, checkout staff, the guys who tarmac the roads, etc, are essential. They should feel proud (assuming they are hard working and conscientious of course), and they should be treated with respect. Unfortunately, how life should be is usually different to how it is. Some obnoxious, greedy little estate agent, or solicitor, will get more respect, and enjoy higher social status, than a kind nurse in an old folk's home. Why? Because the estate agent wears a shiny suit and earns lots of money. And people are shallow. If you drive a nice car, wear an expensive suit to work, and earn above £40,000 a year, you are a 'winner'. If you wear a uniform or overalls, get dirty, and earn a low income, you are a 'loser'.

[Dougella]

^ But we do all have the choice as to how we view people and how we treat people. If more of us choose not to have the attitude you're talking about the better off we will all be.

[Morgana]

I really do have career issues. I now look at jobs as individual jobs, though. I do have my eye on wanting a better paid job, but also put a lot of emphasis on how fulfilling I find the work, keeping levels of stress manageable, and working in a nice atmosphere with people who are pleasant.

Some would say my current job is 'below my skill level', poorly paid etc, but at the same time I think I do very well at it, get enough mental stimulation from it, and am appreciated by other staff, which means a lot to me. If I happen to get a promotion or find another job that I have the same level of satisfaction from, I'd class that as career success.

[limey123]

Recently started in a new job. Going overall well, I think, except one person who was gruff and basically unfriendly from the moment I met them, and one person who seems to have been offended by my failure to respond to them in the way they wanted/expected (they surprised me with their greeting when my mind was elsewhere). Should I let these apparently minor things bother me, they could affect my entire time at the job, as these individuals seem fairly popular and respected and I am just the new guy who has to try to fit in. I was moved from where I was sitting apparently due to these incidents/attitudes. Everyone else has been so nice and helpful!