The Power Of Now. Eckhart Tolle.

[Cellardweller]

I don,t think for one minute i or anyone else can heal the world but i do think there are meny different ways we can heal ourselfs so the world becomes a better place for you to live in.

I'm only just scratching the surface of this book but from what i have read about it so far is that compulsive thinking which meny of use consider normal has become a disease, and disease happens when we are out of balance. The mind is an amazing tool if we use it the right way... but when we use it the wrong way it becomes distructive. Look at all the negative things that are going on in the world today, "Are we really using our minds?" We built an Atom Bomb?

This book goes on about our the ego has taken over the human race (Not your true self) and that our mind is using use, we are its slave and possesed without even knowing it, and take this possessing to be ourselfs. ECHART TOLLE: says that all negativity is a build up of "Psychological time", which is basically being stuck in the past and thinking to much about the future. Unease, anxiety, tension, stress, worry - all forms of fear - are caused by to much future, and not enough presence. Guilt, regret, resentment, grievancess, sadness, bitterness, are to much past and past, and not enough presence.

He also goes on to say that negativity and suffering have there roots in time... which makes alot of sense to me. Our voice in our head comments, speculates, judges, compares, complains, likes, dislikes, and none of this is really relevant to the situation we are in, (Today, The Now). We have all been conditioned to think the way we do so we see and judge the present through the eyes of the past and get a totally dis-torted view of it. I no first hand that being STUCK in the past is total torment, negative, and drains you of any posative energy to move on in life.

Now i no this doesn't really answere any questions , (having Social Anxierty we attract negative emotion to oneself) but i guess i like rabbling? Anway this is a really good book that has made lots of sense to me so far and as soon has i get something from it in regards to your questions, i will be more then happy to try and pass it on to you.

Peace.

[Innervision]

That makes a lot of sense to me too.

[Cellardweller]

Originally Posted by Innervision

That makes a lot of sense to me too.

Yer mate!! It's really good stuff. Without sound strange? alot of us S/Aer are quite SPIRITUAL, and we don't know it.

We are mostly right brain sided people and intrution is our strong point and should be listened to at all times. Apart from being freaked out by alot of things S/A, once gotten over will be a god sent for us all.

Now i am on 1.

[purplecherry]

Funny you post about that , as i was thinking about this book these past few days.

I read that book maybe 3 years ago. Absolutely amazing, I remember the beginning , it said how the first 29 years of his life (if i remember well) he was so bad with depression and everything and then all of that changed, and i always knew things like that were possible, and here i read that, and thought it was incredible.

I think what he writes is really so simple, so logical yet so very powerful. Actually one thing he said in particular stuck in my mind, it was something like Nothing that is Real can be threatened, that was my favourite one, it feels very scary yet liberating at the same time.

[Jules07]

sounds a cool book.

stoics said the same thing - living in the present.

Marcus Aurelius:

"Forget everything else. Keep hold of this alone and remember it: Each of u lives only now, this brief instant. The rest has been lived already, or is impossible to see."

and it was emphasized alot in the CBT course i did 'overcoming social anxiety, step by step' - they had a handout called Living in the Present, which was really useful.

i think alot of different philosophies and faiths have similar cognitive techniques at their heart. they get re-discovered by people, or passed down, through the centuries. they are like natural psychological laws that our minds obey.

[Lama Rinpoche HobNob]

Speaking from personal experience Ive found that after reading books like 'the power of now' and being greatly inspired by them I can then fall into the trap of trying to live in the present, trying to not have a constantly chattering mind etc.

This as Im sure Tolle points out is futile and simply more of the same compulsive mind activity. Thought as self has become so deeply ingrained in the human condition that it worms its way into everything including meditation.

For years I practiced watching my mind like a hawk, catching every thought as it popped into consciousness.
What a bloody waste of time that was. It probably made my SA worse too.

What was actually going on subtly was that I was waiting for something to happen, to have a still mind, to be happy, to know truth etc. In other words thought as self was still subtly running the show.

In truth all this is really simple, thought has no power of its own. All the senses are operating on their own without thought, the body is functioning by itself.
And this is the bit that really does it for me...ask yourself is the thought 'I am aware' aware? and does the thought 'I think' think?

Obviously the answer is no. So where does that leave thought as self? Nowhere. If you really dig into those questions you will realise there really is no self and we are being lived. Our life is utterly impersonal.

When this really kicks in and the identification to thinking goes then the vastness of awareness and the indivisibility of everything becomes apparant. Life is ever fresh and constantly awe inspiring, the pure fact of existence is stunning and unfathomable. There is no self there to attempt to make sense of it anymore, it is simply life happening through you.

Incidentally my SA , nerves and panic attacks are so deeply ingrained into the nervous system that they still very much make themselves known. The body itself holds a memory and reacts in habitual and totally uncontrolable ways to situations that have been feared and avoided for years. All I can do is let it happen and not get involved in any way and it will pass in the same way as stormy weather passes.

It really is a stunning thing when you deeply realise that what you are has nothing to do with thought. Your small world collapses and an unfathomable sense of living vastness and space takes over as your identity. In this space life happens as it always has but the sense of identity has shifted to that space itself.

Im still getting the hang of this myself, sometimes its rather scary and I wonder have I gone quite insane? Until I realise how insane I was before. In a way this is a type of death while living....but in a good way!

[purplecherry]

When this really kicks in and the identification to thinking goes then the vastness of awareness and the indivisibility of everything becomes apparant. Life is ever fresh and constantly awe inspiring, the pure fact of existence is stunning and unfathomable. There is no self there to attempt to make sense of it anymore, it is simply life happening through you.

I agree.

Incidentally my SA , nerves and panic attacks are so deeply ingrained into the nervous system that they still very much make themselves known. The body itself holds a memory and reacts in habitual and totally uncontrolable ways to situations that have been feared and avoided for years. All I can do is let it happen and not get involved in any way and it will pass in the same way as stormy weather passes.

I think thats a great attitude.

It really is a stunning thing when you deeply realise that what you are has nothing to do with thought. Your small world collapses and an unfathomable sense of living vastness and space takes over as your identity. In this space life happens as it always has but the sense of identity has shifted to that space itself.

Im still getting the hang of this myself, sometimes its rather scary and I wonder have I gone quite insane? Until I realise how insane I was before. In a way this is a type of death while living....but in a good way!

I've noticed that most people who realize such truths have felt/ or been labelled by others as crazy or insane

I still have trouble with all this quote thing sorry..

[jontyboyoh]

Yes, this relates so muc to stuff I have been pondering recently; a very spiritual idea, and well-worth thinking about [or not. lol]........

I have been thinkin about the self [which- lets face it- is no easy thing], what makes me happy, wot 'recovery' is exactly, modern society and- from what I can glean- its obsession with consumerism.........

So, what exactly is recovery?..........
Is it about forgettin about the self, which of course is a spiritual (probably Buddhist) idea?......
Sounds gud to me....
Or is it about becoming like everybody else?.....
OK, so folk are prob gonna disagree with this one right away, but some peeps above have already stated how at odds they feel by this deep/spiritual mode of thought, so its not surprisin that I'm thinkin this........

And so I come to consumerism........
Apologies for my ponpousness in giving a literary example, but I have recently been reading Jonathan Frantzens The Corrections, in which one of the main characters believes that you can't feel good about yourself unless you are constantly spending, nor are you a legitimate part of society...........

So I'm a deep thinker [like many on the site], prone to getting a bit over-involved in literature, which means I can see where this character is coming from.......... When I'm in a negative mood, it seems one has to spend to keep up with friends etc etc, which puts pressure on me to work more/harder yada yada.......... Surely I aint the only one that gets a tad dicillusioned bout the workings of the system?........ I think I'll leave the possible links between Capitalism and Depression for another day. lol

Peeps above mentioned guilt; now this is it in a nutshell......I've always felt slightly guilty/dirty about spending money on things!.....Maybe I should stop this; if only to allow myself the purchase of the Hitchcock Collection before the ceases to be £25 and goes back to its RRP of £90. .......

Well, anyway, I've lost my train of thought now, which is a shame since this could ave been a well-developed post, but ne'er mind, eh.

So I'll try to sum it up.........ERRR......I don't know: I'm just bored, in a kind of existential kind of way; like I'm sick of my inner-workings; sick of thinking of things in the same ways; sick of fitting myself into the same boxes..........Hey, maybe now I'm ready to squeeze myself into the 'I'm fed up of all the boxes' box. .........Hmmmm!

Guten Tag!

[Innervision]

Originally Posted by jontyboyoh

So, what exactly is recovery?..........
Is it about forgettin about the self, which of course is a spiritual (probably Buddhist) idea?......
Sounds gud to me....
Or is it about becoming like everybody else?.....

I suppose recovery means different things to different people.

To me it's the opposite of forgetting about the self. It's about getting in touch with the real self and letting go of the distorted self.

I think it's the opposite of becoming like everyone else. It's about being the best we can be and realising our best is all we can offer and should be enough. It's about accepting who we are and being comfortable in our own skin whilst still striving to be the best we can be, without irrational anxieties dragging us down.

So yes, to me recovery is about knowing the self, reducing anxiety to managable levels, being the best we can be and in rejecting the distorted self whilst embracing the real self, even if it flies in the face of the values of this crazy consumerist, conformist society.

[jontyboyoh]

Cheers mate........Makes utter sense agen!

[Lama Rinpoche HobNob]

Originally Posted by jontyboyoh

So, what exactly is recovery?..........
Is it about forgettin about the self, which of course is a spiritual (probably Buddhist) idea?......
Sounds gud to me....
Or is it about becoming like everybody else?.....
OK, so folk are prob gonna disagree with this one right away, but some peeps above have already stated how at odds they feel by this deep/spiritual mode of thought, so its not surprisin that I'm thinkin this........

Innervisions post makes a lot of sense. Im kind of coming at this from the all or nothing angle of knowing what you really are and being it, as is discussed in books like 'the power of now'. For most people this is far too extreme and comes accross as either nihilism or totally impractical, and thats fine, this is not for everyone and really it doesnt matter anyway...unless it matters...its all the same really.

As inner says its not about forgetting about the self but rather realising that your sense of self has been totally misplaced in hopes, desires, opinions, beliefs, fears etc. In other words in thought. Not that there is anything wrong with thought at all, its just not who we are.
In that empty clear space where thoughts and feelings are not latched onto and identified with then things tend to happen more spontaneously, including plans for the future, creative ideas etc.

I must emphasise that this is not about stopping thought but waking up to that vast and mysterious space in the mind, brain, universe...whatever you want to call it where thought originates.

This makes it sound very mystical and complicated but actually its what is there right here and now as you, prior to thought.

[Jules07]

hooray for lama hobnob. i always wanted to be reincarnated as a jaffa cake.

if you have access to ITunes, check out a podcast called Living Dialogues. quite cool and inspiring.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Lama Rinpoche HobNob

.

As inner says its not about forgetting about the self but rather realising that your sense of self has been totally misplaced in hopes, desires, opinions, beliefs, fears etc. In other words in thought. Not that there is anything wrong with thought at all, its just not who we are.
In that empty clear space where thoughts and feelings are not latched onto and identified with then things tend to happen more spontaneously, including plans for the future, creative ideas etc.

I must emphasise that this is not about stopping thought but waking up to that vast and mysterious space in the mind, brain, universe...whatever you want to call it where thought originates.

This makes it sound very mystical and complicated but actually its what is there right here and now as you, prior to thought.

I think you have to be very careful with this sort of thing though. You must first build up a consistent and stable sense of self before you start trying to dissolve it in 'Emptiness'/sunyata. R.D Laing and others thought that schizophrenia might in part be the result of an individual undergoing such an experience without first having any solid self/ego to return to. I guess it is more a question of learning to see the ego in a greater context than simply annihilating all sense of individuality. The so called 'beatific smile' of the Buddha statues point to this- if you can feel this vast expanse then the seriousness in which ppl approach life would seem funny I suppose.

[Cellardweller]

Lot's of good post's here.


Like inner as said it's all about finding your true self. Is finding your true-self having a good job, buying a nice car, having lot's of money etc, etc? Ain't that just comforming and the way we have been programmed to think that thats our you have got to be to feel, important, have power and fit in. Don't you think that's just the EGO talking. What are you when you take away the EGO? Our true self maybe?

For me alot of my emotional pain has been the Egoic mind set that as been programmed into me, and left me with a deep seated sense of lack of incompleteness, and of not feeling whole. I don't think i've really been conscious or unconscious... and when i've been conscious it's let me feeling really unsettled and not good enought. If i'm unconscious it's all about wanting and needing. In either case i've been complusively trying to feed my ego and looking to fill the hole thats missing.

I've strived for possesions, money, success, and power, and better relationships with people to feel better about myself, and still the hole feels bottomless alot of the time.

I find it really hard being at ease with our egoic mind cos it totally just wants and needs and i don't feel that this is me?

How do we find our true self?

[Lama Rinpoche HobNob]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I think you have to be very careful with this sort of thing though. You must first build up a consistent and stable sense of self before you start trying to dissolve it in 'Emptiness'/sunyata. R.D Laing and others thought that schizophrenia might in part be the result of an individual undergoing such an experience without first having any solid self/ego to return to. I guess it is more a question of learning to see the ego in a greater context than simply annihilating all sense of individuality. The so called 'beatific smile' of the Buddha statues point to this- if you can feel this vast expanse then the seriousness in which ppl approach life would seem funny I suppose.

You might be making this a bit more complicated and melodramatic than it actually is. The only thing as far as I can see that dissolves is a stubborn false idea, the idea that what we are is defined by thoughts, feelings, memories, beliefs, opinions etc.
What is seen instead is that the most real ,clear ,sane and primary thing about ourselves is that impersonal pure awareness in which everything happens in ( including in my case still lots of fears, nerves and SA moments) and is in fact life and reality itself.

Cellardwellar:

How do we find our true self?

You are your true self! just stop looking, let the senses operate naturally, let thoughts come and go and perhaps ask yourself 'what is it that everything is happening in?' That space, that awareness, Thats it! thats who and what you are. It appears as nothing to the mind and the mind rejects it and looks for something else, but stay with it and it will open up and reveal itself.
Any movement of searching for it is in a way a denial of it, of what is right here and now.

[Cellardweller]

I like your posts Lama Rinpoche HobNob.

You know what you are talking about.