The ASD thread (Autism Spectrum Disorder)

[firemonkey]

A lot of people are sceptical when a significant gap is mentioned between non-verbal and verbal intelligence . That is not actually that uncommon for people on the spectrum .

Cognitive profiles of adults with Asperger’s disorder, high-functioning autism,and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified based on the WAIS-III
https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/1...sd.2011.09.004


Autism and IQ Testing Bias

There may also be the case that the person has a large disparity between scores, larger than 1SD, and so in this case, a composite score isn’t useful. If we take someone like Feynman, who some may argue had autistic traits and may have been on the spectrum, had a verbal intelligence around 115 but one psychologist estimated his non-verbal abilities to be the equivalent of 180–190. As you can see, this is a massive difference and a composite score is useless, hence why his 125 FSIQ is unrepresentative among other reasons. In this case, the best option is to not give a composite score but just rely on the domain specific scores.

https://www.quora.com/q/embraceasd/A...Q-Testing-Bias

[choirgirl]

Apparently many men mask as well, but on average they mask less than women.

[firemonkey]

Format: Abstract

Send to
J Autism Dev Disord. 2020 May 14. doi: 10.1007/s10803-020-04529-w. [Epub ahead of print]
Brief Report: Social Anxiety in Autism Spectrum Disorder is Based on Deficits in Social Competence.
Espelöer J1, Hellmich M2, Vogeley K3, Falter-Wagner CM4,5,6.
Author information
Abstract

This study differentially examined the relation between two clinical constructs: "social anxiety" and "social competence" in autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Employing two questionnaires (SASKO; IU), individuals with ASD (n = 23) showed increased scores of SOCIAL ANXIETY (SASKO) and of INTOLERANCE OF UNCERTAINTY (IU), compared to a non-clinical comparison group (NC; n = 25). SOCIAL ANXIETY scores were equally increased for ASD and a reference population of individuals with social anxiety disorder (SAD; n = 68). However, results showed increased SOCIAL COMPETENCE DEFICITS in ASD compared to SAD and NC groups. This study allows drawing the conclusion that social anxiety symptoms in ASD can be traced back to autism-specific deficits in social skills and are therefore putatively based on different, substantially "deeper" implemented cognitive mechanisms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...?dopt=Abstract

[firemonkey]

In 2013, the 5th edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) — the ‘bible’ for diagnosticians in the United States and Australia — removed Asperger syndrome as a diagnosis separate from autism. In 2019, the World Health Organization followed suit, making the same change in their own diagnostic guidelines, the International Classification of Diseases.

The authors based the change on clinical grounds — noting, for example, inconsistencies in diagnoses —but it has had an impact far beyond the health professionals who are guided by these manuals. What does it mean for people who were diagnosed with Asperger syndrome before the changes were made?

https://www.spectrumnews.org/opinion...repercussions/

[firemonkey]

“Visual-Verbal Prompting” Could Make Interviews More Manageable For Autistic People

A key feature of interviews is open-ended questioning inviting the recall of past experiences and memories — what psychologists call “autobiographical” memory. Having to provide this information accurately and coherently, combined with the stress of the situation, can often make being interviewed a demanding and uncomfortable experience.

That is especially true of autistic people, who may have difficulties with both autobiographical memory and open-ended questioning. Many autistic people report job interviews as a major barrier to employment, and it’s possible that interview difficulties may also be compounding, or partially causing, problems in legal and healthcare contexts where open-ended interviews requiring autobiographical recall are a common feature. Autistic people are more likely to be involved in criminal investigations, for instance, and to experience physical and mental health difficulties.

Now, in a paper published in Autism, a team led by Jade Norris from the University of Bath has examined techniques that may help autistic people in these situations. Thirty autistic and thirty typically developing (TD) adults were given eighteen questions asking them to recall specific life events relating to common scenarios across three contexts: criminal justice (e.g. “tell me about a specific instance when… you went to the bank”), healthcare (e.g. “…you vomited”), and employment (e.g. “…you’ve met a deadline”).

https://digest.bps.org.uk/2020/05/28...arch+Digest%29


https://sci-hub.tw/10.1177/1362361320909174 full article

[firemonkey]

The 'Aspie as You-tube personality ' is about as far removed from me as I am from a level 3 intellectually disabled, autistic person .

I wonder to whom their videos are aimed .

[Dougella]

^ They do say once you've met one autistic person you've met one autistic person, as in each person is different even though they may all be autistic. I guess it takes a certain kind of person to make videos and put them on YouTube anyway, whether someone is autistic or not!

[Laurel]

I know SA people can sometimes have Aspergers.Just found out Mark Zuckerberg classes himself as that. Founder of facebook.

[Laurel]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ They do say once you've met one autistic person you've met one autistic person, as in each person is different even though they may all be autistic. I guess it takes a certain kind of person to make videos and put them on YouTube anyway, whether someone is autistic or not!

yes I agree with that. And women are even more different, it's wrong they are overlooked. On a SA diagnosis but really need an Aspie diagnosis.

[firemonkey]

My biggest bugbear with 'functioning' is the tendency for it to be seen as <70 low and >70 IQ high . The reality for many of us is that adaptive functioning lags a fair way behind our level of intelligence . I'm intelligent enough to get into several high IQ societies, but my practical skills are in the toilet. Without the support I get from my stepdaughter I'd be "up **** creek without a paddle" , as my wife used to say.

[firemonkey]

I think it's the white(high) black(low) way of assigning people re functioning that's the problem. My functioning,as with most people on the spectrum, is a mix of high and low . I think they should break it down into sub components , and emphasise (relative) strengths and weaknesses.

[firemonkey]

The more I see these videos the more I question things being reduced to an ASD 1-3 spectrum or a UK equivalent .
There are those that need round the clock care and support, and at the other end the media friendly types that make these videos .

I don't see myself like either extreme. I'm not as disabled as the former, but have nowhere near the self confidence of the latter.

[Dougella]

^ I think that people's level of functioning in different areas can also be deceptive. I remember watching a video of one of the autistic women who regularly makes speeches etc and she was talking about how one of the other women who was also making a speech that day needs an assistant to travel everywhere with her and to help with her daily activities yet she can make speeches Infront of large groups of people. On the other end ofcourse I think I think sometimes might underestimate what people on the more severe end of the spectrum can do and understand, and do things like talking about them Infront of them as if they're not there.

[firemonkey]

^ I think you make a fair/good point . Many on the spectrum have spiky ,cognitive profiles . Adaptive functioning tends to lag behind IQ; often by a significant amount .

I could never make a speech in front of a large group , not because I'm stupid , a recent 99.9997094213% percentile score on a high range verbal test shoots that down in flames, but because my nerves would be shot to pieces making such a speech.

I do identify with need for support when it comes to daily living . Without that support in Essex I was self neglecting . Truth is I get a lot of help from my stepdaughter, and to some degree my granddaughters.

I agree totally that level of functioning is not at a consistent , fixed, spot if marked on a graph .

[firemonkey]

An excellent video .

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by imperfect_perfectionist

^Yeah, I just watched it . Thanks for sharing. Do you experience executive dysfunction?

Yes, I do . The primary ones for me are organising and planning . I struggle when it comes to multi step tasks . Prep school reports described me as poorly coordinated, whereas public school ones described me as disorganised and messy .

Executive dysfunction is quite common in those on the autism spectrum . There is a belief among some cognitive psychologists that poor executive functioning is connected to less than average non-verbal intelligence.

https://era.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2889

My nviq is hard to measure exactly because quite a high level of guessing occurs when I try such tests . It is however significantly lower than my viq .

[Dougella]

This research project at the University of Exeter is exploring variations in visual imagery to see if there are any differences between the general population and people who have high levels autistic traits. The purpose of this survey is to measure your mental imagery to discover if there is a link between autistic traits and extremes of visual imagery or whether there is no difference when compared to the general population which is why, when answering questions, it is helpful to remember that there is no requirement for an autism diagnosis and there are no desirable answers. The survey explores a range of cognitive conditions so that the complexity of a potential relationship can be investigated in as much depth as is possible within the scope of the research project.

https://exetercles.eu.qualtrics.com/...lSource=reddit

[firemonkey]

Organising and planning are,I reckon, my worst areas of executive functioning. Multi step tasks are quite problematic .

[firemonkey]

The more I see YouTube autists the less I can identify with them . I am also not in the severe autism category . The YouTube autists come over as very extroverted and self confident. The kind that would make you think that ASD is a personality trait rather than a disability.

[Deer]

I'll be honest, I'm getting an autism assessment at some point and even though I have done a tad bit of research on it and listened to folks diagnosed with it, I'm still unclear as to the precise definition of autism or what exactly it is. I hear how people talk about how it impacts their life but I've seen similar symptoms for mental health disorders. I know it is related to developmental differences but apart from that what it is exactly evades me.

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by imperfect_perfectionist

Can you relate to any people with autism in this video?

I also think the definition of autism has widened from the earlier definitions due to having more information to autism that it is seen less like a disability and almost quite normal nowadays but it's a really broad spectrum.

I think I can understand what you mean though. I just saw a forum post briefly on someone who can't relate to the current trend of mental health awareness. Haven't read the post yet but I also can't as it I feel the media only focuses on mental illnesses that aren't that severe and normalises it into something much smaller than my experience of mental illness. I wonder if that is how you feel about some popular autistic youtubers.

Btw, from one of the youtubers, autism is not necessarily a disability, it's a disorder, you have a different type of brain to a neurotypical but aren't always disabled.

I can't really relate to any of them . For me it's very much a disability. I function at a rather basic level, and rely on quite a lot of support from stepdaughter . My daily living/practical skills are significantly below my verbal skills .

The point you make about mental health awareness is right on the button. It's something I've felt for a good number of years. I'd say the same goes for those popular autistic youtubers .

[gregarious_introvert]

@Deer, @firemonkey, @imperfect_perfectionist (I didn't know which post to quote - I don't know how to do multiquote - and I've named you in alphabetic order to avoid any accusations of favouritism!): I think that the experience of autism is unique to each of us as an individual and - as mentioned - it is a very broad spectrum. I do know that, these days, the professionals are tending not use the term "disorder" but replacing it with "condition" (so ASC rather than ASD) in an attempt to normalise it a little more and remove whatever stigma might be attached - although, from talking to neurotypicals, I am getting the impression that there is so much less stigma attached to autism these days and that a larger percentage of people know someone (or know someone who knows someone who knows someone...) who is autistic to some extent. Of course, if they have only one autistic person in their lives, that may give them a fixed idea of what it means to be autistic but (a) they will only see the outer manifestation of how it is and (b) if that person is not a close relative or friend around whom they spend a great deal of time, they will only experience a limited view of that person's behaviour, demeanour and thought patterns.

For me, autism has never felt like a disability (I've lived alone for 40 years now and function reasonably well, with perhaps some differences to the neurotypicals but then everybody is different anyway) but more a different way of being; the difficulties have been (from my point of view) not within me but in my relating to the rest of the world, both in thinking differently (although not so differently that I can't relate) and in how the world sees me (the latter of which has been fundamental in my poor work history, both in my inability to get jobs which would have been suited to my skillset and to keep those jobs which I have been able to get). From my communication with the Autism Society (which was about the lack of help for people with autism), I have been told that autism is not a mental condition or a disorder but a disability and that the term "severe" should never be applied to the condition (I didn't ask that, but the reply included the words "you asked about the term "severe autism"...), although we do know that there is an end of the spectrum where the autistic mind is so focussed on one area that the person is completely unable to function in the real world.

In summary, I can't define what autism means any more than anyone else can, including those Youtubers who (although I haven't watched the videos) will be talking from a personal viewpoint (which may have been expanded by talking to others); other autistic people whom I have met would have only served to confuse me further, were I not already aware of how broad a spectrum it is - and yes, I have met people who are outgoing and/or confident as well as those who are introverted and/or shy (I'm not entirely sure where I fit in that spectrum either, as I would describe myself as confident and introverted, but with extrovert characteristics which have become more apparent now that I find myself more accepted within society). I think it's relatively easy for us to know within ourselves that we are (or may be) autistic (I knew for 20 years before I was able to get a diagnosis, although many professionals "strongly suspected" that I was, despite not being qualified to diagnose me themselves) but explaining why to others is not always easy.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Deer

I'll be honest, I'm getting an autism assessment at some point and even though I have done a tad bit of research on it and listened to folks diagnosed with it, I'm still unclear as to the precise definition of autism or what exactly it is. I hear how people talk about how it impacts their life but I've seen similar symptoms for mental health disorders. I know it is related to developmental differences but apart from that what it is exactly evades me.

Here are some links to how the national Autistic Society explains it.

https://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is.aspx

https://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/asd.aspx

[Deer]

Cheers, Dougella

[Mo34]

Well finally got some kind of acknowledgement re. autism assessment. (only took 10/11 months)

There is a 24 month wait (from my referral date of August last year) but their warning this is likely to increase because of covid19 as they haven't been able to see ppl face to face.

[firemonkey]

A 4 part primer about executive functioning.


https://musingsofanaspie.com/2014/01...primer-part-1/

[Content-Contentlessness]

Nice to see a thread on ASD. For whatever reason there seems to be a thread of this condition woven into my family. I myself have a formal diagnosis of ASD (+ many other things) - My grandson is currently living with my wife and I. (We all support each other) My grandson and I both receive funding for varioius supports aimed at assisting our traits and triggers. (Help us to fit into a complex world) I often use my active noise cancellation ear buds which go a long way to easing the loud static that plagues my head when out in public places. I also have a support person who helps me in public.

Other members of my family + extended family (traits can be inherent in different forms and degrees that may or may not later manifest [I am careful not to identify too much with negative aspects of blaming DNA being unchangeable] - BUT systemic & residual effect; yes) who exhibit strong traits, are in mine and my wife's opinion - mislabeled with psychiatric conditions which have made things more difficult for them. As a result mental symptoms do arise that would otherwise be less of an issue. Correct diagnosis can help, but the phase/fad (spawn of anxiety and need to identify/belong/understand) for self diagnoses and stigma of one label Vs another tends to get in the way of individuals as well as those doing the diagnosis. Our story is a rather complex one.

I focus on the deeper side of that in the beginnings of my Blog this morning and thereafter.

I just wanted to say it's nice to see a section on ASD in a mental health forum - regardless of those who would split hairs over neurological vs mental. Just like how the Body and the Mind are connected, so too I have come to see that the connection between neurological and mental are in the same context - Yet I also see that 'Vs' need not be a thing. The desire to separate and compartmentalize everything, whilst good for gauging 'can' be as much a problem as the conditions being proposed. It's a tricky one.

In fact, I see/feel how many elements across the spectrum of ASD - SA & a host of the other related symptoms and off set conditions are in many ways quite natural and beneficial when adopted in the right spirit. For me, I find more trouble can come from over identification with one aspect of instability Vs another. To be sure there is a predisposition that sees many who carry with them varioius traits which depending on how they connect with them, become more disabling than others, yet on the other scale those same predilections which when understood can be help us do great things.

Best I can say it. This is just my view and by no means do I mean to dismiss the level of identity that others attribute to themselves. Understanding the complexity of ASD can be really helpful for both those who struggle and excel as well as others who are considered neurotypical and are challenged by those with the condition; during periods where those whom have ASD are either not doing so well - or just plainly being misunderstood when in fact; they are exceptionally well.

Thank you for making this space and I wish everyone well - but it's also OK if not - despite the preference to be stable at the worst of times. That context being more on acceptance.

Whatever the case - I'll just sum up a wishing well.

[Dougella]

^ Is the support person who helps you in public someone who volunteers or are they paid (if you don't mind me asking)?

[Content-Contentlessness]

Hi Dougella. I live in Australia. The government service I am on is called 'National Disability Insurance Scheme' AKA (NDIS) That service pays an agency that then pays the support worker, whom I called a support person. I am very particular about the people that assist me. If they are in it only for the money, I can sense it and I then quickly move on like I do with therapists, until I find a support person - AKA (Companion) who enjoys doing what they do.

My Autistic traits can lead some of my family members being embarrassed being around me. I do not have outbursts like I used to, but my sense of humor and eccentricities are not understood. I also have a hard time hearing and often do not like being in the same places that my family like to go to because of my sensitivities. My family love and care for me, but they are kind of held back when I am unable to visit or want to sit or walk around the places they do - Thus I have a paid support worker who helps me fill out forms, go to the doctors and other dense populated and noisy waiting rooms (Tv's, Radios, bright lights and so on drive me up the wall) ... shopping, and even going out for walks.

When I get nervous and anxious I stutter, walk around like a lost sheep, fidget and so. My grandson is cool with it though - He understands me very well. When I go out with him, I don't care what others think. We are in our own little world doing things we both enjoy.

Since qualifying for this service I have been getting out a lot more, although it's not about force integration but more improving quality of life and assisting with the main things that need doing.

I am lucky that I am able to choose or swap at will as client and supports are based on ensuring both parties are well matched.

I probably gave you more info than you wanted to know ... but since you asked I thought I would reply in my usual long winded style. : ) The good thing about having support, it helps me be my natural self - at least when I am feeling confident which is a lot more since having support.

Thanks for asking. Feel free to ask me anything. I try to keep it in line with the topic of this thread.

The Autism, Asperger's and ASD Thread

[Dougella]

^ That sounds really great. I know there are adults that would really be helped by having a support person to go places with them and assist them but it's very hard to qualify if you don't have a physical disability (and it's not that easy even if you do I think.)


Thank you for such a detailed reply