OCD help needed.

[moose]

I may be barking up the wrong tree here but I've just lost a good friend (she's NOT on here) who has OCD and epilepsy. Basically I made some pretty tame jokes she took offence to, which I did apologise for. However, there were 2 occasions when I wasn't making jokes and on 1 of those occasions I apologised, not because I was in the wrong (I most definitely wasn't) but because I wanted to keep her friendship, because it meant a lot to me. I also wanted to prevent her from getting stressed, because she might have a fit. She later told me she did have a fit as a result of our falling out she blamed me for (long story, but i wasn't making a joke).

Most recently she told me a story about her daughter who had refused to pay a fine for being in a car park too long because she helped someone else who broke down. She told a friend and i her daughter would never pay that fine and my friend said "good on her". Based on the fact that most of the fall outs have been based around her grown up daughter, I said her daughter would probably be 90 years old and still not pay the fine. It wasn't until a couple of weeks later did I learn my ex friend found this another joke, which it wasn't.

We did later have a meeting in a pub to discuss things but within seconds my optimism vanished. I was dictated to by being told I had to accept there were certain boundaries, but as I was still being accused of something I hadn't done (and the likelihood that I'd be later accused of something i hadn't done) this wasn't workable.

I have since exchanged emails, where i clarified why I said what i said, but she's neither accepted my explanation and severed ties. I'm not too pig-headed where i can't apologise, because I have already last year for something where I was innocent. The reason i won't is when it forms part of a dossier on me where at worst the issues were mountains out of mole hills or never happened then the issue will only get worse out of absolutely nothing.

The reason i ask about OCD and epilepsy is she apparently has brain damage as a result of all the fits, but also has poor memory as a result of it. At the last meeting she had a go at me about an incident, and when i said I didn't know what she was on about and could she give me more details, she said she couldn't remember. This left me wondering how someone could get so upset with me over something they couldn't remember.

Then there is the OCD. Is the thought process and compulsions driving it?

[Dougella]

Perhaps her brain damage is a factor here if she's not remembering certain things, brain damage can affect moods too i think.

But the bottom line i would say is that if this friend has decided that the differences you have are too much and they no longer want to continue the friendship i think you have to just respect that and leave her alone. Also it sounds like the situations that were happening were probably becoming quite stressful to you too.

As to the OCD i can't comment on how that could be playing into her reactions and behaviour, but maybe another poster will know.

[moose]

I won't be contacting her again because I have done as much as I can. I do care for her very much and told her as much. But i feel as if we are having 2 separate conversations. I'm being asked to accept her terms on something that didn't happen

[Blackflies]

Apologising for something you haven’t done is always a slippery slope. I think it can reinforce into someone’s mind that they were right. That said, what is important is how you made that person feel (intentionally or otherwise) and you can’t prove a feeling so there is nothing to debate. If you hurt her, you hurt her. Perhaps she is over sensitive or perhaps you too careless with your humour.

I have a history of epilepsy and it is fair for her to want to avoid stress or unnecessary drama in light of that. She may well have an “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude as a defence to simply shut down debate that may lead to conflicting and heightened emotions. Regardless even if she was open to admitting she was wrong that you did something specific, it doesn’t really matter because it won’t change that history of her feeling hurt. Debating it will only raise the question of whether she overreacted or whether you were insensitive. The best solution really is to change the behaviour she perceives as wrong or quit trying to repair the friendship. Getting to the route of it won’t make her less sensitive in the future. She doesn’t like your humour. It’s a personality conflict. You either adapt and modify your personality to sustain drama free relations or you recognise that compromising who you are doesn’t align with your own moral compass. I imagine the latter to be true for you given you apologising for something you feel you didn’t do doesn’t sit well with you.

I don’t believe the OCD plays a part in this conversation in terms of her sensitivity but if debate and conversations about past history causes her to feel anxious it’s inevitable this will make her OCD worse and if she over exhausts herself with her obsessional thoughts and/or patterns because she’s triggered, that inevitably may lead to a seizure.

Without knowing the context of the jokes and wordings she took a dislike to, it’s not for us to say who is wrong or right but if you care about her, it’s better for the both of you to take a step back from this friendship. I don’t agree with putting guilt on someone for a seizure happening but it’s also important to respect peoples boundaries and if she’s indicating she wants space or to shut the conversation down, for whatever reason, justified or not, it’s best to walk away without the answers you seek. That is what true friendship is, knowing when to stop even when it means we have lost. Respecting her boundaries and giving her silence is probably the best way to save the friendship later. It shows you are capable of listening and adapting. When she’s ready, if she feels the friendship is salvageable she’ll reach out.

[moose]

The various things said were several weeks or months apart. in truth there were 5 incidences over a course of just under a year. My other friend who was around on some of those occasions thought it was over-sensitivity on her part or not even jokes at all. On 2 occasions they definitely weren't, and my other friend was there the last time and he's as confused as I am. The 2nd time was nearly a year ago and I apologised because I was worried about losing her, but there was no joke at all. As that has since been used as part of this "ongoing issue", this is why i can't apologise for the very last time. What I did learn from her last meeting was that when I brought up the 2nd time, she tried to shut me down by asking if it was relevant then claimed she had no memory of it, which was odd.

I get where you are coming from about changing my behaviour so i don't upset her, but the problem is being accused of something the last time when i did no such thing and that i wasn't believed, essentially making me a liar. She wants me to respect her boundaries and from that point on I was careful not to say anything. Sadly, based on the last time she doesn't agree, so I can't win.

Something I didn't mention was my mum passed away 2 months ago so I've not been in the best place myself. She did say she delayed talking to me about the last time until after the funeral. However, the day before our chat, I had just seen a solicitor and learned i could lose the house mum had left me in her Will, despite me being her part time carer for the last few years and living with her for 20 years. As I've had the stress of being the soul executor of the estate, arranging the funeral and potentially selling the house if my sister carries out her threat of challenging the Will (she's been left a reasonable sum of money), my ex friend needing to have a word with me 2 hours after i told her all this tipped me over the edge. Sadly that got lost on her.

Anyway, I won't reach out to my ex friend. I have done as much as I can and I think we're done. I don't have many good friends and I really miss her.

Originally Posted by Blackflies

Apologising for something you haven’t done is always a slippery slope. I think it can reinforce into someone’s mind that they were right. That said, what is important is how you made that person feel (intentionally or otherwise) and you can’t prove a feeling so there is nothing to debate. If you hurt her, you hurt her. Perhaps she is over sensitive or perhaps you too careless with your humour.

I have a history of epilepsy and it is fair for her to want to avoid stress or unnecessary drama in light of that. She may well have an “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude as a defence to simply shut down debate that may lead to conflicting and heightened emotions. Regardless even if she was open to admitting she was wrong that you did something specific, it doesn’t really matter because it won’t change that history of her feeling hurt. Debating it will only raise the question of whether she overreacted or whether you were insensitive. The best solution really is to change the behaviour she perceives as wrong or quit trying to repair the friendship. Getting to the route of it won’t make her less sensitive in the future. She doesn’t like your humour. It’s a personality conflict. You either adapt and modify your personality to sustain drama free relations or you recognise that compromising who you are doesn’t align with your own moral compass. I imagine the latter to be true for you given you apologising for something you feel you didn’t do doesn’t sit well with you.

I don’t believe the OCD plays a part in this conversation in terms of her sensitivity but if debate and conversations about past history causes her to feel anxious it’s inevitable this will make her OCD worse and if she over exhausts herself with her obsessional thoughts and/or patterns because she’s triggered, that inevitably may lead to a seizure.

Without knowing the context of the jokes and wordings she took a dislike to, it’s not for us to say who is wrong or right but if you care about her, it’s better for the both of you to take a step back from this friendship. I don’t agree with putting guilt on someone for a seizure happening but it’s also important to respect peoples boundaries and if she’s indicating she wants space or to shut the conversation down, for whatever reason, justified or not, it’s best to walk away without the answers you seek. That is what true friendship is, knowing when to stop even when it means we have lost. Respecting her boundaries and giving her silence is probably the best way to save the friendship later. It shows you are capable of listening and adapting. When she’s ready, if she feels the friendship is salvageable she’ll reach out.

[Dougella]

^ So sorry to hear that you lost your Mum recently Moose. If you have other friends that you can lean on probably best to concentrate on them at the moment.

[Percy]

Sorry about your mum Moose.

[moose]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ So sorry to hear that you lost your Mum recently Moose. If you have other friends that you can lean on probably best to concentrate on them at the moment.

I had 2 good friends and a few acquaintances. I've had so much to deal with over the last few years where friends have come and gone, my ex stopped me seeing my daughter 9 years ago, which really f*cked me up and I've not seen my daughter for 6 years. In that time I became a part time carer for mum who had dementia in later years. Now I have my sister making threats, who despite only living 8 miles away, would not be seen for months at a time. Anyway, with everything that has happened, I'm lacking motivation to crack on with my life. You can only take so much rejection and doors slammed in your face can't you?

Originally Posted by Percy

Sorry about your mum Moose.

Thank you x

[Dougella]

^ That's terrible about your daughter, hopefully she will want to reconnect with you when she's old enough to decide herself. Yes no wonder you're struggling with all that to deal with!

[moose]

Originally Posted by Blackflies

I believe she was willing to move forward by meeting you again but you wishing to discuss it wasn’t her desire. If she agrees to meet again, I’d just not mention it and discuss whatever is presently happening in your/her life.

sadly, no. When I had to be spoken about the incident i had been accused of, I was so rundown with everything that was going on in my life, that I just couldn't take any more and walked off. may not have been the best move but the day beforeI'd just got some bad news from my solicitor regarding mum's Will that could be challenged. i told her this less than 2 hours before we had this chat, so being told she wanted to wait until after the funeral (which was 6 days earlier) when I'd just had even more bad news was really poor timing. When we agreed to meet again, I arrived very hopeful and with an open mind. I bought her some chocolates, and thought we'd have an open discussion and we'd probably go for a long walk and a chai latte, like we usually do. Anyway, in Spoons, before I sat down, she said "If you get up and walk then we're over". That immediately put me on the back foot and set the tone for what followed. She was very dictatorial in that I had to respect her boundaries but not listening to me. She didn't accuse me of being a liar but when i told her I knew what i said and in the manner i said it, she said she disagreed and said we had different opinions. The way i saw it was I'm either telling the truth or I'm not.

Originally Posted by Blackflies

Gosh, I’m terribly sorry for the situation you currently find yourself in and the loss of your mum. I appreciate she delayed her talk in light of your mum’s passing but 2 months is no time at all in the grieving process, even without knowing your added housing stresses. As I said before, I don’t agree with her guilt tripping you for her seizure. She had epilepsy before you entered her life (I presume) and personally even if a stressful situation caused by someone did trigger a seizure, I wouldn’t blame someone for this as just as my body is out of control in them moments, the other person isn’t in control of my own body either.

I can appreciate why you feel the loss of your friend and the need to reach out even more now you’ve lost your mum. I would encourage you to look at forums or telephone lines aimed at those struggling with grief and citizen advice.

I don’t think your friendship is necessary over but a pause is needed. I realise that the pause comes at the worst time when you really need support of a friend, more than ever. But such is life. Perhaps the pause will also give her time to reflect on whether she’s being unnecessarily harsh. When we’re still in the situation, it’s often hard to see outside the box. If you do eventually message her again after a pause of a couple of weeks, I’d recommend making it clear you’d prefer to move forward, agree to disagree and just focus on the now.

As for your relationship with your daughter, parent child bonds are almost always absolutely bullet proof. Your ex partner denying you access will deny her daughter memories with you but it won’t dilute her need to bond with you in later life. Even children who never meet their parents still have that connection to find out about who they are and want their approval. It must be emotionally difficult to miss out on important moments in her life but sometimes the parent that isn’t there in the challenging moments are often yearned for more later.

As I said before, I apologised a year ago, not because I was wrong, but because I valued her friendship, and was worried the stress could cause a fit. I've only known her for 2.5 years and she's had fits since she was 8. She gets them every 6 or 7 days, so she'll get them whether I cause them or not. But after I apologised a year ago, she did then tell me she had a fit as a result of the stress the argument caused, which I thought that was unfair. Imagine the worry i have is we fall out and she has a fit because of me.

Regarding my daughter, i have always wanted to connect with her again once all this with mum was over. But the separation really screwed me up. Then I had to look after mum and I just gave up. Now the only thing stopping me is self doubt. She is 12 years old now. her mum probably would have indoctrinated her. My daughter would have had a life withe al her friends and extended family i don't know. She could also be calling some other man her dad for all i know, and that is something i can't cope with. From my daughters side, should I reconnect, which could potentially screw her up at this stage of her life? I don't even know if they still live where they used to. I know nothing.