#61
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#62
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#63
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Re: The drugs don't work
It's been interesting watching this thread develop.
I think it pays to remember that people experience mental and emotional distress differently. They also respond to different interventions differently too. Meds are not a cure-all, and are not put forward as one anyway. To use a lame analogy - meds may act as something of a lifebelt helping to keep a person afloat. But it's up to the person to then put in the work and get themselves to the bank. Once on safe ground it's up to that person to learn how to swim (live their life more effectively) in order to cope better in future. So meds do not do all the work, when prescribed responsibly to people receptive to them (and we don't know if we are receptive until we try them) they can facilitate and assist the person to make other efforts to beat their problems. They are not a cure, but can in many cases bring enough mental stability so that the person can then put in the effort and commitment needed to engage in therapy or whatever necessary to address the root cause of the problem. So if meds did indeed act as a lifebelt in desperate times, the hope is that once on an even keel the person casts off the lifebelt and learns how to swim (live) without it. Meds do not address the root of a problem, but they can potentially bring enough stability to a person so s/he can then address problematic issues in a more deeper way, via therapy or whatever else they feel responsive to personally. It's important to realise there is a vast difference between taking meds and actually using meds. If a person pops a pill and expects it to change their life for them, they are taking meds. If they take meds and use any benefits they receive from them to push ahead and use the relative stability wisely by being pro-active in helping themselves, then they are using meds. I believe meds have their place, and if responsibly prescribed and used, they can be beneficial. Some people are not responsive to meds, and as Dr Miriam Stoppard pointed out the other day, this may be down to genetics. As reserach in the US has found that differing genetics in people can influence how receptive they are to SSRI meds. So this muddys the waters when it comes to measuring effectiveness. Something else bothers me over the placebo effect. I mean us SA people and depressed people in general tend to be real sceptics, don't we? But the placebo effect works on the principle that if we believe something will work, then it will work. But how many of us actually believe meds will 'work' for us when we are first prescribed them? I know I was sceptical and pessimistic, so if anything, the placebo effect in my case should have been that they didn't work because I believed they wouldn't work. But in fact, I was pleasantly surprised when meds helped me. NLP? Well it has helped literally thousands of people, so if it helps you, use it. There is a lot of snobbery in the 'therapy community' and some people are only interested in working with therapies that have science behind them, which is their right, of course. But there is more than one way to skin a cat, and people differ greatly in what they respond to. Science looks down it's nose at a lot of things that ordinary people find useful to them, so it's up to the individual, really. Use what you find useful, is my philosophy. Before I sign off, can I just put my hand up as one person who has beaten severe and debilitating SA and depression through drive and determination. I'd like to believe it took some balls to do it too, considering it almost killed me trying. I did it using an holistic approach. By making use of anything and everything that offered even an ounce of assistance to me. I also needed the lifebelt that is medication in order to keep me afloat when I was drowning. From then on it was meds, but mostly sheer graft that made the difference. DM, you know I have a lot of time for you and your efforts, but there are many ways of confronting our demons. We have to find our individual way through trial and error as well as a lot of effort. As I say, there is more than one way to skin the cat that is SA. I think what upsets some people on the site is you appear to be suggesting your way is the only way. It's not though, you know. Lots of people here are doing well, and lots of us have done well and moved on from the site. Of those who have moved forward and progressed, I bet all of us will have a slightly different story as to how we did it. Some will have used meds, others not. My way has been very differnt to yours, but we've arrived roughly at the same place. As I say, there is more than one road to any destination. We just have to find one that suits us. |
#64
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im pretty sure that wot im posting here is helpful to lots of people. its helpful to the people who are new to dealing with SA and who haven't got a clue of were to turn. they may think meds is the only way but by reading my threads they will realize that maybe meds isn't the best way to go about this wot can i say other than the only way u will know 4 sure if that was an ''absurd claim'' is if you try timeline therapy urself . i can look at a peice of cake and say to myself '' mmm that cake looks nice'' but i will never know wether it actually does take taste nice or infact it tastes like sh!t until ive tried it myself. |
#65
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just to let u all know something very important.
im 25 and ive only just started to face my fears and start beating SA. i had all the tools and knowledge i needed when i was 23. i was ready at 23 but couldn't take action cos i was too lazy. i wasted two whole years. then i used x's end procrastination CD and it cured my laziness at the root. im now taking action to beating my SA and i wudn't be in this position if it wasn't for x. and the reason i get so pissed of with people recommending medication on this site is becasue IM NOT ALLOWED TO RECOMMEND X TO PEOPLE ON THIS SITE. ive had countless PM's from the people in charge of this site telling me that if i recommend x i'll be removed from the site for good. medictaion is harmful, x is not yet people are freely allowed to recommend medication on this site were as im not allowed to recommend x and that is wot p!sses me off |
#66
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The best way to convince someone about your position is by rationally discussing its merits, not shouting at people and drowning out what they say has helped them. |
#67
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wow I have read all of this with interest. A fight indeed!
If there is someone you know David who can cure depression/anxiety in a matter of minutes I am sure we would all like the name and number of this person! I would happily pay a good deal of money for this!! and if it is instantly curable why are there still thousands of people suffering with SA? I find it odd that you think you are the only one with balls on here with the courage to deal with your problems. But I admire your confidence in yourself! We must all encourage one another to get help in whatever way we can, not slag one another off. Not very constructive. |
#68
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#69
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#70
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Unless of course x is actually your company, in which case the mods are well within their rights to remove it. |
#71
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#72
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#73
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its a godsend yet im not allowed to share it with fellow strugglers well i live in liverpool (which innerversion will confirm) and im on benefits. x is in america and is a million dollar company so its definatley not my company |
#74
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i sed that for 2 whole years i didn't take action to beat my SA cos i was too lazy. then i sed i cured my laziness with thinkrightnow. wot im saying is that thinkrightnow cured my laziness at the root so x is a powerful thing. yet im not allowed to share this powerful thing with others. never did i once say that laziness is the reason why everyone has failed to beat SA. i honestly don't know were the hell u got that from |
#75
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note the 2 x's in my thread.
i didn't put those x's there. the people in charge of this site have done it you don't see medication and ssri (or wotever they're called ) being x ed. absolutely crazy !!!!!!!!! |
#76
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#77
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#78
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Do people actually "recommend" meds on the site, though?
I know people state whether or not meds have been useful to them, but I've not seen anyone put them forward as the only way to beat their problems. People state that meds are one option, but I don't see any wholesale recommendation of meds being the answer. Yes, meds do have potential side-effects, but this is where we have to weigh up the pros and cons. If I'd not used meds I'd be dead now, so the pros of their use certainly outweighed the cons in my case. To be honest, I think we have to be careful how we push things here. If people feel dictated to they will pull back. That's how people are. Personally I think we have to credit people with the intelligence and the autonomy to look at what's on offer and decide for themselves. Approach is key. Saying "This worked for me, check it out and see if it helps you, too" is fine. But telling people "This is the one and only way" will see people pulling back from your message, however well intentioned it is. I know full well that your intentions are honourable, but if you want people to be open to your message it's best if you simply put it out there and let others make their own minds up. Ironically, for many, their SA has some roots in being ignored and overlooked by people who never listened to them, but rather kept on telling them what was 'good' for them instead. That approach disempowers and undermines people. Giving them opportunity to decide for themselves helps to empower them, though. I'm not on your case, David. Juist pointing out that sometimes the iron fist works better if it wears a velvet glove. |
#79
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This thread is better than Eastenders
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#80
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David, despite disagreeing with you on some points I hope you realise I'm not attacking you personally in this thread. We're both looking to get to the same destination, but we just use a different route. Despite our differences on this, I admire your guts. |
#81
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Better than double bill coronation wedding!
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#82
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we are all having a healthy disagreement here. it wud be wrong if every one of us had the exact same veiws and that we all reframed from expressing them in case we offended each other. i consider u a friend and u r perfectly free to disagree with wot i say |
#83
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#84
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And on that note I'll leave it there, cos I have to be elsewhere very soon. Take care. |
#85
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#86
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Yes, Lord. I'm absolutely astounded that you've completely ignored all the points outlined in Innervision's unbiased and well thought out post. You're stubbornly determined to remain ignorant to everything anyone says. There's quite a few people, including myself, willing to brush aside your constant preaching of NLP purely based on your refreshingly positive outlook and sometimes inspiring attitude. Unfortunately the attacking of every opinion which differs to that of your own is losing you credibility by the second. I don't see any of your arguments in this thread supported by any evidence whatsoever. Most of your claims arn't even true at all (and please have a think about that before you argue back at me, it's blatantly true and makes you look like a fool when you say otherwise). You're not being victimized here (in fact most people have been very accommodating). You are however, receiving some amount of hostility because you're not being rational, or even listening to anyone before you respond with your own hostility. That's right, your attitude does stink right at this moment. Fire feeds fire. Sow what you reap 'n' all that. |
#87
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i have veiws and i put them on the threads for people to look at. if they agree gud for them, if they dont good for them. i dont care if people think my attitude stinks, i dont care if people think im arrogant. i dont care if people beleive wot i say and i dont care if people choose my way or not im puttin gmy way out there so people have the option of wether to listen or not. everything ive sed is true !!!!!!! im not willing to listen to anyone you are rite, cos ive got my own veiws and im stubborn with them cos they are rite my attitude stinks ! , well woopy doo |
#88
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I have nothing more to say, your Honour.
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#89
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#90
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Read InnerVisions contributions again please! |