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View Poll Results: is it possible to define a "League" ?
Heterosexual Man - Yes 34 38.64%
Heterosexual Man - No 15 17.05%
Heterosexual Woman - Yes 18 20.45%
Heterosexual Woman - No 6 6.82%
Gay man - Yes 4 4.55%
Gay man - No 1 1.14%
Lesbian woman - Yes 0 0%
Lesbian woman - No 0 0%
Bisexual man - Yes 0 0%
Bisexual man - No 1 1.14%
Bisexual woman - Yes 1 1.14%
Bisexual woman - No 1 1.14%
Transgender - Yes 1 1.14%
Transgender - No 2 2.27%
Asexual - no answer applies 2 2.27%
Other (specify) 2 2.27%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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  #181  
Old 22nd June 2010, 22:41
Ajax Amsterdam Ajax Amsterdam is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by diplodocus
Disagree. That is called confidence and charisma. You can't tell if someone has it just by looking at a photo of them. But it's pretty evident in the flesh.

Having it puts you in a higher league. The only reason you might think someone with it is in a lower league then they are is if you just go on physical appearance. Clearly people who only go on physical appearance are making very inaccurate assessments that do them no favours. Looking at body language, style, how someone interacts with others can tell you so much more than just whether they are good looking or not without even talking to them. If you talk to them you can get even more information to make a much better assessment. The people who do worst with the 'league' concept are those that think it's only based on extraneous attributes like physical looks and clothing.
Fair enough. It's clear that we don't see this issue in quite the same way.

My only question to you would be does your view of these things actually work for you practically, in every day life? Does it get you where you want to be, and around people you want to be around?

I only ask because my outlook on this does get me where I want to be, and does place me with the people I want to be around.

I'm not saying either way is correct or better. I'm just wondering if you feel that your view of it is successful for you in a practical sense?

To me, so long as we view things in a way that works for us personally, it's all good.
  #182  
Old 23rd June 2010, 00:22
Ajax Amsterdam Ajax Amsterdam is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by In The Moment
It's a brilliant point. If you can create your own reality then why does any of it matter.
Yep, that's it really.

There is no such thing as a singular, definitive reality.
For instance, I grew up with two siblings. We grew up in the same environment. We experienced a heck of a lot together. Despite this, we are all very different personalities and have different outlooks. Different things get us down. We get a buzz out of different things. We have different interests and attitudes. This being so, we have different lifestyles. So whose reality is real? Well all of them are.

So, the crucial factor is in making your own reality work for you rather than against you. I'm SA but neither of my siblings are. Does that mean they live in reality but I don't? Of course not. It just means that my reality differs from theirs. So again, there is no such thing as a singular, definitive reality.

Does a billionaire not live in reality just because their lifestyle is beyond the financial means of most others? Of course not. Their reality is as valid as anyone else's.

Our circumstances, our outlook and perceptions of the world are our reality. And our reality may differ from the reality the guy down the road experiences. Both are still reality none-the-less.

Simply put, what we have to do is to make our reality work for us. See our reality in a way that helps get us to where we want to be, rather than hinders us at every turn. How I get my reality to work for me will no doubt differ in method to how another person gets their reality to work for them. Neither way will be definitively and universally correct, but it will be correct for that individual.

Therefore, I don't see others as above me. I see myself on a par with others. This means I pitch myself accordingly, and then get treated accordingly. So my approach makes my reality work for me rather than against me.

If I felt that others were above me, I'd pitch myself at the world according to that self-evaluation. Others would then no doubt treat me accordingly. My reality would then match my self-view.

What's in our head is only our reality for as long as we accept it as such.
  #183  
Old 23rd June 2010, 07:46
diplodocus diplodocus is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benfica
Fair enough. It's clear that we don't see this issue in quite the same way.

My only question to you would be does your view of these things actually work for you practically, in every day life? Does it get you where you want to be, and around people you want to be around?

I only ask because my outlook on this does get me where I want to be, and does place me with the people I want to be around.

I'm not saying either way is correct or better. I'm just wondering if you feel that your view of it is successful for you in a practical sense?

To me, so long as we view things in a way that works for us personally, it's all good.

Yes it does, but I should add that maybe it hasn't in the past. The main reason was, that despite our different views, I was too scared of rejection and wouldn't approach those that I thought would most likely reject me.

I still wouldn't bother to approach those who I believe to be out of my league and I think that saves me a lot of time and effort but my problem was I wasn't even approaching those within my league as it were, only those I thought were very unlikely to reject me. But also the number of people who I believe to be within my league has increased so I have more people who I would approach now than before. This is mostly due to increased confidence and less fear of rejection (not only because of increased success).

I think leagues work for me because I'm fairly sensible on how I apply them and I'll catch myself if I'm just using them as an excuse to cover up my anxiety or fears.
  #184  
Old 23rd June 2010, 11:41
nessa456 nessa456 is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benfica
Yep, that's it really.

There is no such thing as a singular, definitive reality.
For instance, I grew up with two siblings. We grew up in the same environment. We experienced a heck of a lot together. Despite this, we are all very different personalities and have different outlooks. Different things get us down. We get a buzz out of different things. We have different interests and attitudes. This being so, we have different lifestyles. So whose reality is real? Well all of them are.

So, the crucial factor is in making your own reality work for you rather than against you. I'm SA but neither of my siblings are. Does that mean they live in reality but I don't? Of course not. It just means that my reality differs from theirs. So again, there is no such thing as a singular, definitive reality.

Does a billionaire not live in reality just because their lifestyle is beyond the financial means of most others? Of course not. Their reality is as valid as anyone else's.

Our circumstances, our outlook and perceptions of the world are our reality. And our reality may differ from the reality the guy down the road experiences. Both are still reality none-the-less.

Simply put, what we have to do is to make our reality work for us. See our reality in a way that helps get us to where we want to be, rather than hinders us at every turn. How I get my reality to work for me will no doubt differ in method to how another person gets their reality to work for them. Neither way will be definitively and universally correct, but it will be correct for that individual.

Therefore, I don't see others as above me. I see myself on a par with others. This means I pitch myself accordingly, and then get treated accordingly. So my approach makes my reality work for me rather than against me.

If I felt that others were above me, I'd pitch myself at the world according to that self-evaluation. Others would then no doubt treat me accordingly. My reality would then match my self-view.

What's in our head is only our reality for as long as we accept it as such.
You probably are on a par with others as regards looks, hence they don't make you feel bad about yourself, hence you have good self esteem.

Without a photo to show us how you look, this will always be the predominant reason for your success as far as I'm concerned.

People continually underplay the major, if not predominant role looks play in social interaction.
  #185  
Old 23rd June 2010, 14:32
Ajax Amsterdam Ajax Amsterdam is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by diplodocus
Yes it does, but I should add that maybe it hasn't in the past. The main reason was, that despite our different views, I was too scared of rejection and wouldn't approach those that I thought would most likely reject me.

I still wouldn't bother to approach those who I believe to be out of my league and I think that saves me a lot of time and effort but my problem was I wasn't even approaching those within my league as it were, only those I thought were very unlikely to reject me. But also the number of people who I believe to be within my league has increased so I have more people who I would approach now than before. This is mostly due to increased confidence and less fear of rejection (not only because of increased success).

I think leagues work for me because I'm fairly sensible on how I apply them and I'll catch myself if I'm just using them as an excuse to cover up my anxiety or fears.
Thanks for answering my question.

It seems that despite the difference in the way we see this subject, we both have a way of working that suits us and is working for us. To me, that's all that matters.

Your approach is healthy for you, and that is no bad thing at all. Long may your approach serve you well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nessa456
You probably are on a par with others as regards looks, hence they don't make you feel bad about yourself, hence you have good self esteem.

Without a photo to show us how you look, this will always be the predominant reason for your success as far as I'm concerned.

People continually underplay the major, if not predominant role looks play in social interaction[
I'm not sure I'd agree there, nessa.
I realise that looks are a very subjective thing, of course, but I'd not say I was that much to look at. Currently I'm 3 stones over my ideal weight, and 2 stones over the weight I was last at when I thought I looked reasonably decent.

I have often gone out with females who are far better looking women than I am a good looking man. One nasty swine even commented to a partner of mine enquiring what she was doing with me because ''she could get much better looking guys''.

If what partners I have been out with have told me is actually true, they like me more for who I am than how I look. Having said that, of course they are going to have to see me as somewhat physically attractive too, otherwise they'd no doubt not want more than a friendship with me.

I agree about the size of the role that looks play in life, but I can assure you that I am currently less than average looks-wise, and maybe hit average to reasonable when I get my butt into shape.

Whilst acknowledging the role looks can play, I also feel it is easy to under-estimate the role approach, attitude, outlook and individual personality play too. I mean I've seen some very average looking people whose overall personality and outlook have made them come over as very attractive indeed.

So I think there is more to it than looks. To go solely with the looks idea it would, in a way, be to think of my ex-partners and current partner as being a bit superficial. And the vast majority definitely were not that at all. My current partner didn't even fancy me when we first met. She got to know me as a person and a relationship developed from there. I think the only box I ticked for her initially was hairy chest.

I think it funny how some people explain away success. I recall a number of years ago on this site when talking about SA people and relationships. Some guy posted how I must have a large penis, a fat wallet, or both. I assured him I had neither. I'm just an average guy with lifelong SA who takes a few risks and has seemingly got an approach and outlook that works for him.

The above paragraph wasn't a dig at you in any way, nessa. It's an overall observation on how, at times, people's success is unintentionally devalued in some way.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.
  #186  
Old 23rd June 2010, 17:08
nessa456 nessa456 is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benfica
Thanks for answering my question.

It seems that despite the difference in the way we see this subject, we both have a way of working that suits us and is working for us. To me, that's all that matters.

Your approach is healthy for you, and that is no bad thing at all. Long may your approach serve you well.



I'm not sure I'd agree there, nessa.
I realise that looks are a very subjective thing, of course, but I'd not say I was that much to look at. Currently I'm 3 stones over my ideal weight, and 2 stones over the weight I was last at when I thought I looked reasonably decent.

I have often gone out with females who are far better looking women than I am a good looking man. One nasty swine even commented to a partner of mine enquiring what she was doing with me because ''she could get much better looking guys''.

If what partners I have been out with have told me is actually true, they like me more for who I am than how I look. Having said that, of course they are going to have to see me as somewhat physically attractive too, otherwise they'd no doubt not want more than a friendship with me.

I agree about the size of the role that looks play in life, but I can assure you that I am currently less than average looks-wise, and maybe hit average to reasonable when I get my butt into shape.

Whilst acknowledging the role looks can play, I also feel it is easy to under-estimate the role approach, attitude, outlook and individual personality play too. I mean I've seen some very average looking people whose overall personality and outlook have made them come over as very attractive indeed.

So I think there is more to it than looks. To go solely with the looks idea it would, in a way, be to think of my ex-partners and current partner as being a bit superficial. And the vast majority definitely were not that at all. My current partner didn't even fancy me when we first met. She got to know me as a person and a relationship developed from there. I think the only box I ticked for her initially was hairy chest.

I think it funny how some people explain away success. I recall a number of years ago on this site when talking about SA people and relationships. Some guy posted how I must have a large penis, a fat wallet, or both. I assured him I had neither. I'm just an average guy with lifelong SA who takes a few risks and has seemingly got an approach and outlook that works for him.

The above paragraph wasn't a dig at you in any way, nessa. It's an overall observation on how, at times, people's success is unintentionally devalued in some way.

Anyway, thanks for the reply.

I take your point. I do have a bit of an obsession with looks being the passport to everything.
  #187  
Old 23rd June 2010, 17:14
diplodocus diplodocus is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowing
I think the factr thayt my girlefriends are always much better looking than me is profoof that leagues dont exist. Whateverr it is they see in me i dont see it.
Not necessarily at all. Most women rate looks far lower in importance than men generally. That's the problem with a lot of blokes on here, they can't seem to grasp that concept. Personality is king as regards men, and to a lesser extent women too. Congratulations to you! Or it could just be BDD? I seem to remember you mention something about that before? No offence but if that's the case you're probably not the best judge of who's better looking.

Even then what some men might assume is attractive to women can be totally different to what women actually find attractive. You only have to look at the number of pale skinny hairy male heart throbs that women adore to see that! They certainly don't all fancy muscular perma-tanned clean shaven oily chippendale types.
  #188  
Old 23rd June 2010, 17:50
diplodocus diplodocus is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
That's me well out then!

Disordered, defective personality.
Lack of good looks.
Always broke.
Mental issues.
Crap at sports.
Zero friends.

Other than that I'm quite the catch - so come on gals - over 'ere!
Alright so even if that is all true, does that mean you are just over picky then? Because there is always someone who'll have you
Not me mind you, but only because I'm straight
  #189  
Old 23rd June 2010, 18:15
Ajax Amsterdam Ajax Amsterdam is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
That's me well out then!

Disordered, defective personality (wierdo).
Up to the eyeballs with mental issues.
Lack of good looks.
Always broke.
Crap at sports.
Zero friends.
Poor dating history.

Other than that I'm quite the catch - so come on gals - over 'ere now!
But Cyn, you're still such a lovable guy.

If I were a lady I'd take you under my wing and before long, you'd be posting under the 'Optimist' username.
  #190  
Old 29th January 2011, 13:59
catlover catlover is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Yes, there are leagues, but I would call them "status hierarchies". Your position in the status hierarchy is based on a number of factors, many of which are out of your control, such as the DNA content of your parents' genes. A prospective mate estimates your position in the hierarchy relative to hers (or his), and determines whether or not you are "acceptable". Of course no one admits to doing this. But if you have any doubts, just observe a school lunch room for a few minutes.

Now it is important to note that not everyone's algorithm for determining position in the hierarchy is identical; we each have different tastes and preferences, and this is what gives those of us on the low end of the scale some hope. But, unfortunately, there are some aspects of the process that I would consider to be almost universal.
  #191  
Old 29th January 2011, 15:26
cwis cwis is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

I voted 'yes' - meaning I think the concept of league can be defined.

I'll leave the defining to someone else :P
  #192  
Old 29th January 2011, 16:37
karl-32 karl-32 is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

yes


its all about standards and theres nothing wrong whatsoever with having standards
  #193  
Old 29th January 2011, 17:00
Blumoon Blumoon is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Disordered, defective personality. (would not say that, it's only your bad experiences)
Lack of good looks. (nothing wrong with the way you look, you look like any guy could!)
Always broke. (doesn't have to be that way - courses, jobs.)
Mental issues. (who doesn't have? a lot of people do and some will understand)
Crap at sports.(sports are everything?naw )
Zero friends.(so am i. but you can change that, and it doesn't have to matter, to the right person who'd be sensitive)
Other than that I'm quite the catch - so come on gals - over 'ere!
Just felt i wanted to challenge what you said, as u do have a horrible image of yourself which you spew all over these forums, half of what you say is not true, you should really speak to a pro about your thoughts, cbt maybe?. There is imo actually no way you don't deserve what any other person in this world can have.

I'm not being nasty, but, do you think susan boyle is out of ur league? apparently she's never been kissed, and i think still hasn't even after fame. ;0 And i think that's just such a shame, she seems like any other person like her could be!
  #194  
Old 29th January 2011, 19:16
catlover catlover is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawty
I'm not being nasty, but, do you think susan boyle is out of ur league? apparently she's never been kissed, and i think still hasn't even after fame. ;0 And i think that's just such a shame, she seems like any other person like her could be!
I'd say the fact that Susan Boyle, seemingly a very nice and talented lady who society has judged to be "unattractive", has never been kissed is a testament to the existence and prevalence of "leagues".
  #195  
Old 29th January 2011, 21:39
Phool Phool is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benfica
But Cyn, you're still such a lovable guy. If I were a lady I'd take you under my wing and before long, you'd be posting under the 'Optimist' username.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
If not making do with someone I don't connect with on an emotional and/or intellectual level to some extent at least (which rules out 90-99% of the pub/club mob BTW) is classed as being too picky, then maybe I am(?) :hmmm:
I promised myself I wasn't going to post on another dating thread as they always make me feel crap.

And lo and behold I feel crap again. I asked Cynic to marry me months ago and he declined. Now I know its cos he thinks I'm thick But I still love him anyway
  #196  
Old 29th January 2011, 22:03
Phool Phool is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynic
Aw Phool, like I said you would end up hating my guts after a while and I'm not the marrying type anyway. I know you're a LibDem, but you certainly aren't thick. Here, have a wee cuddle from me.
  #197  
Old 30th January 2011, 02:24
catlover catlover is offline
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Default Re: She's Out of My League / He's Out of My League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moomin
Doubt it, I've seen all sorts of looking people in various levels of physical shape that have kissed someone.

I don't know what else there is to her story though, she might have been isolated with no friends and just not met people. Not sure of her personality either.
Thanks for the observation. It's good to know that there are some people out there, who have been declared "unattractive" by the mainstream society, who have nevertheless found someone to love. Kudos to them.

But still, I think one has to admit that if Miss Boyle had been more "attractive" (as determined by society), then she'd have had many more suitors and would have been more likely to have found someone to be intimate with, assuming that that is one of the things that she was searching for.

I recall watching the video of her initial appearance on the television show. The audience and judges, on first site of her, immediately deemed her "unworthy" and "beneath them".
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