Not caring what other people think of you

[Sunrise]

What's the actual thinking behind this? Is it aimed more towards people who's biggest problem is overthinking, or is it more of an "ignorance is bliss" thing?

If you're someone who over thinks, but doesn't really lack social skills, knows how to behave properly and generally gets along with others I can see how it might be helpful.

If you're someone who struggles socially it sounds like a recipe for disaster to be honest. My experience with taking this approach in the past hasn't helped, it was more like a form of avoidance. If you're someone who really struggles socially surely listening to the feedback of others is the only way to improve? There are so many situations in life where the opinions of others matters. If you're consistently getting very negative reactions from other people, then it's probably a good idea to take on board what they are saying.

My friends are very critical of me, but I really don't understand those who tell me to ignore them and find better friends. They're exactly the people I should be listening too. I don't really care what random strangers think of me (is that what people mean when they talk about not caring what others think? Random strangers?), but when it's the people who really know you surely you should very much care.

The issue I have is that don't ever get given practical advice from this criticism, but at the same time it must be difficult to help someone like me because of the various problems I have. I never really get told anything beyond the usual "get a haircut and grow a pair!" type advice, but I'm already trying to improve the little things like that but it doesn't make much of a difference to the bigger picture.

If I took the attitude of not caring what other people thought of me I'd be a very lonely individual. I'd probably become a full blown MGTOW type, and I'm already heading in that direction I'm ashamed to say. My idea of not caring what others think of me would be a "screw everyone" attitude, which doesn't sound like a healthy way of dealing with it at all.

Spending your life upsetting other people and not caring about it doesn't sound like a very good way to live. How is that a victory over SA. You're life won't have improved, you just won't care anymore. I don't see how it would make things better.

[Marco]

I think this attitude of not caring what others think of us actually has a lot of merit for SA suffers who are almost invariably hypersensitive to other people’s judgment. However, I totally agree we should always listen to advice and criticism (constructive, that is) and at least in that sense we should care what other people think. I guess it's just finding that healthy balance (that comes with healthy self-esteem) so that we can take advice/criticism on the chin without second guessing or feeling like total failures.

[biscuits]

It sounds like the idea is more about being comfortable with who you are, rather than not caring at all about what others may think.

Spending time with the people who love and accept you for who you are - but can also challenge in a supportive way are healthy friendships. Friends that put you down and criticise don't sound very supportive.

Sometimes people have no idea what advice to give but feel like they have to say something, so they give easy ideas of things to do because they're not sure.

[Sunrise]

I'd rather not be comfortable with who I am, I'd rather be as uncomfortable as possible with who I am because that's what gives me the motivation to want to change. I absolutely refuse to accept myself for who I am. This isn't who I want to be and it's not who I feel I should be.

I can't see anyone loving and accepting me as who I currently am, that's completely unrealistic. Learning to become the sort of person someone would want to love and accept is the answer, and that involves listening to what others look for in a friend. When your I my situation you need to very much care about what other people think of you, it's the only way you can progress and grow as a person.

[biscuits]

How do you hope to go about the changes you wish to make?

[Sunrise]

I have no idea. I've never heard of anyone who has successfully been able to make the sort of changes I need to make. I'd rather aim for the impossible than embrace failure. The idea of self-acceptance is very defeatist.

[biscuits]

Self-acceptance also involves being aware of things you'd like to work on.

[Sunrise]

I want to learn how to genuinely interact with others successfully without it feeling forced or fake. I want to learn how to impress people, make a good impression and earn their respect. I think they are all things I need to work on, but they're all things that involve caring about what other people think of me.

My interactions and relationships with others is at an all time low, it's something I definitely need to work on but I don't know how to do it? I'm too suspicious and paranoid. I find being in the company of other people destroy my self-esteem because I know I'm not good enough. And the more I do it, the worse I feel. Shouldn't it be getting easier? I feel like absolute shit when I'm with other people. It's not irrational.

[biscuits]

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t care what others think of them.

Mmm yes, sometimes being around others can seem to confirm some of the negative thoughts and feelings we have. It’s more about how we interpret that and being gentle with yourself. It’s fine to want to improve in that area, but also when there are barriers that are out of your control it’s important to recognise that and acknowledge that you might need support with it. I’m not sure if that makes sense. I get what you mean about repeated exposure and it not really changing things because the fundamentals aren’t in place.

Who is saying it’s irrational?

[Merry]

^^ I think knowing what you want is a good start.
Trying to unpick and understand the barriers that are stopping you from interacting with others in a genuine way is probably the next stage. Until you know why you aren't open with others and or forced or fake, it's probably too difficult to change.

Sometimes we can try to interact in a different way, sometimes it might help, sometimes it won't make much difference because interaction depends just as much on the other people involved.
I've been much more open in recent years about being autistic and having social anxiety. With some people that's really helped foster some genuine friendships. In other situations it hasn't made any difference in that some people have preconceptions and judgments.

I think my own fakery comes from masking when I'm around judgemental people, because I'm not strong enough to stand up for myself.

Other people will be fake for different reasons. Do you have any insight into why interaction feels forced for you?

[BFG_]

Originally Posted by biscuits

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t care what others think of them.

you sure about that?

[biscuits]

^ you would be crying into your all you can eat cake if I went round telling everyone that you're a vegan.

[BFG_]

^pass the tofu

[Sunrise]

I'm naturally not a particularly nice person, so my attempts at being friendly often come across as fake and false.

I don't know how to impress people either, so my attempts at trying to win people over come across as fake and false as well.

I'm not a warm, friendly person and I don't tend to get along with others when I'm "being myself", so I often have to put on a front when I'm with others as a way of avoiding confrontation.

I have no charm or charisma and my attempts at trying to be come across as very fake and a lot of the time quite creepy. I often get told that I make people feel uncomfortable. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to be more charismatic but I can't seem to successfully put the advice into practice which I find very frustrating. I just end up coming across as awkward, creepy and off-putting.

[Dougella]

^^ Do you find it easier to be yourself online rather than in person? Because when you post here you show a sense of humour, you come across as intelligent and thoughtful. I don't think any of us here recognise the person you describe yourself as.

[Sunrise]

Not sure. I probably come across differently on here to how I do in real life, I never talk about mental health stuff or how I'm feeling with people in person for a start. The difference is probably nobody ever really comes across as awkward online as it's just words on a screen. It's a lot easier to make people feel uncomfortable in person just by your general presence, which doesn't happen online.

[biscuits]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'm naturally not a particularly nice person, so my attempts at being friendly often come across as fake and false.

I don't know how to impress people either, so my attempts at trying to win people over come across as fake and false as well.

I'm not a warm, friendly person and I don't tend to get along with others when I'm "being myself", so I often have to put on a front when I'm with others as a way of avoiding confrontation.

I have no charm or charisma and my attempts at trying to be come across as very fake and a lot of the time quite creepy. I often get told that I make people feel uncomfortable. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to be more charismatic but I can't seem to successfully put the advice into practice which I find very frustrating. I just end up coming across as awkward, creepy and off-putting.

These things can be caused by body language, tensing up, being unsure of how to be. I have this issue sometimes too, but I think being a woman makes it more forgivable and people take me under their wing like a puppy on the Chanel four programme about rehoming dogs. It sounds like (based on the accounts on this website) that men are seen differently?

I think something that might help is reframing your thoughts and thinking about how social anxiety (or anything else) can make these things happen, rather than you being a horrible person. When I had terrible selective mutism I used to think all sorts of horrible things about myself because I felt trapped by it. But it can make people weary and confused, not everyone. Sometimes it's luck - the people you encounter and are around. Their patience, empathy, or kindness.

I don't like the way your friends talk to you.

[Sunrise]

I'm a big, scary looking man. I really don't think anyone's going to take me under their wing. I don't think I look sweet and innocent enough to get away with being shy. It's not endearing when someone like me behaves like this, it's just weird. I think a lot of people don't really get it. I think it can intimidate some people. I probably seem like some silent but deadly type to some.

I've become very closed off over the last few years after some bad experiences. I don't trust people at all. It would be nice to have friends who are actually nice to me, but beggars can't be choosers, and I probably bring a lot of it upon myself.

[Marco]

^I think you’ve hit on a problem with SA that may divide, to some extent, the experiences of men and women who suffer from this dreadful affliction. In men SA, and shyness in general, is generally perceived as unmasculine and can be at odds with a man’s physical appearance and indeed society’s expectations. I think this basically confuses people, especially so if you’re a ‘big, scary looking man’. Thankfully we’ve come a long way with our understanding of things like gender roles, but I think men are generally still expected to be socially confident and if not, rather dismissed as being a bit strange.

[Merry]

I don't think we should take one person's experience and use it as a basis for different gender experiences.
I'm female and no one has ever "taken me under their wing".
Rather than it being a gender thing I think it's probably much more to do with the vibes someone gives off based on their past experiences with people (including their own upbringing) and the ability to trust and put faith in others.
Having anxieties about things and sharing them is pretty common and accepted and people are generally quite nice about that.
Being unable to express yourself in any way because of past trauma is different and people can only react to the coping behaviours you develop, because you're unable to explain why you behave a certain way. If people don't understand they are far more likely to project their own reasons onto why someone is acting in a way that doesn't make sense to them in a situation. Usually the explanations people come up with are negative and that feeds into more mistrust.

[Merry]

I don't think I denied the validity of gendered analysis? I was just pointing out that one person's experience can't be used as a basis for making statements about gender experiences. So yes, gender probably plays a part in the negative language that a man in that situation might get, a man might be called "creepy" (though that's something I have been called, sadly) women might be more likely to get stereotypes like "stuck up".
I was trying to explain that I think it is more to do with someone's defensive behaviours whether or not people are nice enough to sympathise and "take you under their wing" rather than it being based on someone's gender, because I don't think it's helpful to think "well that's always going to happen because I'm a man", when I honestly don't think that's the reason. I don't think it's gender based, I think it's to do with defensive behaviour, which men and women both develop.
Maybe I didn't explain it well.
Because I wasn't trying to say there's no difference in male and female experiences of social anxiety, just that I don't think being female is what makes people react favourably towards someone who is socially anxious, rather it's the socially anxious person's ability to have some trust in the people that they are with.

[Dougella]

^^ Speaking as a woman (because I am one), a man who has social anxiety and this makes him seem nervous and quiet is not going to be viewed as any particular threat. But a man whose social anxiety causes him to come across as agressive or angry is probably going to be percieved as threatening.

A woman whose social anxiety makes her come across as aggressive is probably more likely to be perceived as unfriendly and possibly "difficult".

[BFG_]

Jimmy Saville/Rolf Harris were both very friendly and loved by many.

[Merry]

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...veness-5115075

Not sure if this is of any help to anyone? But I think I should probably be reading up on it anyway!
I have definitely used a lot of defensive behaviours, because I was raised in a very critical and unloving household. Without going into detail no one ever said a nice word to me, just many, many not nice ones, so growing up in that way didn't allow me to interact with others normally. It brings a lot of internal shame.
I kind of thought I'd understood it and moved on. I'm not defensive in my close relationships, I'm very loving and...reflective? thoughtful?

But, having started mixing with new people because I started a university course I hadn't seen that all those coping behaviours are still there! After only three months in I'm completely isolated and my response has been to try and change course, instead of trying to understand and improve the situation

[Merry]

I just wanted to point out about the article that it describes being defensive as a reaction to criticism.
Speaking personally, I don't really receive overt criticism. I certainly haven't on my new course, because no one knows each other well enough to criticise each other. I've even had quite a lot of nice things said to me, about my work or even just things like my clothes, because it's new, so people are being nice and polite.

So defensiveness isn't always a reaction to a criticism or a slight. For me, it's so ingrained that whatever people actually say, somewhere in my subconscious I've decided that they probably dislike me, that they talk about me when I'm not there, that they call me all sorts of names... and then behave as if all that is real. Which eventually it will be.

[Amara 94]

^ I can understand the defensiveness. I don’t feel like I am overtly defensive but probably have a lot of defensive thoughts.

Do you think that people covertly criticise you as I do think they do for me but then I also fear finding out the truth so there is some fear involved in defensiveness definitely.

A mentally healthy person I imagine is actually comfortable with criticism as they have enough self belief in theirselves to not internalise the views of others. They also probably trust their nervous system so don’t mind accepting certain emotions that come up during a confrontation.

[Amara 94]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'm naturally not a particularly nice person, so my attempts at being friendly often come across as fake and false.

I don't know how to impress people either, so my attempts at trying to win people over come across as fake and false as well.

I'm not a warm, friendly person and I don't tend to get along with others when I'm "being myself", so I often have to put on a front when I'm with others as a way of avoiding confrontation.

I have no charm or charisma and my attempts at trying to be come across as very fake and a lot of the time quite creepy. I often get told that I make people feel uncomfortable. I've watched a lot of YouTube videos on how to be more charismatic but I can't seem to successfully put the advice into practice which I find very frustrating. I just end up coming across as awkward, creepy and off-putting.

I don’t believe anyone is naturally just nice. We all have positive and negative parts of our behaviour . If you make others uncomfortable it’s not entirely your fault, it might partially be. Probably not a popular opinion, may not be right either. But I’m sure in the past lgbt people may have made others uncomfortable. Neurodivergent people make others uncomfortable. This is due to lack of awareness. I think it’s also the same with anxiety. Most people don’t know how to deal with the feeling of anxiety so ignore it, my theory, so when they see it in another person they avoid acknowledging the feeling.

[Amara 94]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'd rather not be comfortable with who I am, I'd rather be as uncomfortable as possible with who I am because that's what gives me the motivation to want to change. I absolutely refuse to accept myself for who I am. This isn't who I want to be and it's not who I feel I should be.

I can't see anyone loving and accepting me as who I currently am, that's completely unrealistic. Learning to become the sort of person someone would want to love and accept is the answer, and that involves listening to what others look for in a friend. When your I my situation you need to very much care about what other people think of you, it's the only way you can progress and grow as a person.

Why do you think no one will love you the way you are?

[Merry]

Originally Posted by Amara 94

A mentally healthy person I imagine is actually comfortable with criticism as they have enough self belief in theirselves to not internalise the views of others. They also probably trust their nervous system so don’t mind accepting certain emotions that come up during a confrontation.

oooh, that's really insightful.
I don't think I ever thought of it that way. I'm always terrified of hearing something bad said about me (which has happened often in the past) because I just accept it as the truth. And also that decent people don't get bad stuff said about them.
But really people probably often talk about each other and don't really worry too much about it. If you have a strong sense of self you probably would just shrug it off, or maybe confront it.
You're right about the emotions too, I think. Last week one of my classmates had a big rant at the tutor and got upset. Afterwards everyone was fine about it but I can't cope with getting upset in front of people at all. I suppose that might come from not being "allowed" to have emotions as a child? Whereas if you grew up with your emotions being validated it seems perfectly ok to show them.

[Amara 94]

^Yeah I am the same. I have an idea of what to aim for but no idea how to really have enough self belief or not internalise others opinions.