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  #1  
Old 5th December 2006, 11:31
dadindoors dadindoors is offline
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Default I'm Disappointed with You

Yesterday, l posted what l thought was a really serious and important thread, but l'm really disappointed with the responses other people posted.

It seems that no-one here is prepared to take seriously my suggestion that we might not be crazy for being socially anxious.

I can only conclude from that that people on this site seem to be perfectly happy with being labelled deviant, neurotic, irrational etc. Why doesn't anyone seem to be prepared to even think about the possibility that it might be entirely rational to be wary of other people in this society ?

I believe we live in a really toxic society, full of crazed selfish aggressive egomaniacs - and everyone here seems to want to be like them and to join in their nasty game.

Perhaps, though, l should thank you all - because l really am clear now that l haven't got SA - not least because l am not prepared to think there's anything wrong with me for being nervous about other people.

The fact that people on this site don't seem to be prepared to engage seriously with what l think is a serious issue, just confirms my opinion that l should be wary of everyone.

All my life, l've felt as if other people aren't really interested in what l say and think - and l hope l've finally reached the point where l have the confidence to believe that l no longer have to feel that's because there's something badly wrong with me.

Thanks for listening - if you have.

Bob
  #2  
Old 5th December 2006, 11:40
007 007 is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

I think SA is defined as people being really anxious in social situations to the point where they avoid them and maybe having symptoms like shaking, sweating, etc which is not normal. I think deviant is a strong word and I doubt many people would use it to describe their SA. I think if you can go into social situations and be relatively confident without any SA symptoms then you don't have SA.

Here is a good link I just found.

http://www.anxietycare.org.uk/docs/social.asp
  #3  
Old 5th December 2006, 11:59
Ruby1
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

I do take your point dadindoors you only have to watch the news to see it's a big bad world out there and sometimes i'll watch crimewatch where someone answers the door to a hitman and gets blown to bits and try to justify why i run and hide in pure panic everytime the door knocks. But to me the irrational part is (a few examples) The teenage lad next door threw a sweet wrapper into my garden i was convinced that meant from now on he'd be tormenting me and really had it in for me. A fella stuck a leaflet through my door the other day and i almost had a bowel movement. Scared on the bus if an elderly lady sits next to me. I panic if my daughters teachers wants a word with me. I won't go to the doctors unless i'm almost on my death bed for fear of him thinking i'm weird and unworthy of help. Loads of things that i know in my heart of hearts is not quite 'right'. But i do take your point some fear is mearly normal behaviour to the world we live in and we should be wary within reason.
  #4  
Old 5th December 2006, 12:12
shadoclast shadoclast is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadindoors
Yesterday, l posted what l thought was a really serious and important thread, but l'm really disappointed with the responses other people posted.

It seems that no-one here is prepared to take seriously my suggestion that we might not be crazy for being socially anxious.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by crazy.SA is simply the normal part of people's nerves and wariness of others taken to such extremes that it seriously interferes with their normal everyday lives probably due to their upbringing.If we act differently to the vast majority of society and its us who are unhappy with our lives then of course there is a problem with us,not them.
  #5  
Old 5th December 2006, 12:43
Marley's Ghost
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Hi Bob,

I agree with you that SA is an understandable response to this malevolent world, but your response to people's responses to your previous post seems to me to be an over-reaction - people weren't dismissive of your post from what I read.

I don't consider myself to be "crazy", although I'd say I'm mentally unstable to a minor degree, and I always fear slipping back into the severe mental illness I suffered from when I was younger.

I think you have made an unjustified assessment of the people on this forum - there are bound to be a few nasty people here, but I'm sure that most people here are caring and considerate.

It seems a shame to dismiss the whole human race, although at times I feel that way aswell; but there are many good people out there who we needn't be wary of.

Just try to find and focus on the good people!
  #6  
Old 5th December 2006, 12:52
hardy hardy is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Dadindoors I think you are putting things too much in black and white .Saying in effect either society is crazy or you yourself are.
My guess would be that you are totally none crazy and society is a little crazy in parts.so you can safely join society and still choose to overlook or reject any craziness you see.
  #7  
Old 5th December 2006, 12:59
AlienHeat AlienHeat is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadindoors
that it might be entirely rational to be wary of other people in this society ?
Rational isn't the same as useful, and fear isn't the same as wisdom.
  #8  
Old 5th December 2006, 13:09
crimson~raven crimson~raven is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Personally I think you are being rude, we are not crazy nor would I label myself deviant, neurotic, irrational etc.

We have a heighten fear of what everyone else has any way. It is normal to feel anxious in certain situations we just feel it more and in more situations than others. Personally for me its the judgment from others this is something that has been instilled in me by an abusive family and I will not feel shame because of my fears. If you choose to alienate yourself from society please feel free to do so but do not assume that others do not wish to be a part of it. There is both good and bad in the world and I can see the point some days of keeping out of it, but I do not wish to spend my life alone. SA is a problem if you wish to do something but the fear is holding you back, not to live up to others expectations nessasaryly just to be able to be yourself and be in th eworld.

I am reminded of a part of the film Girl Interrupted where Lisa the sociopath is saying how bad the world outside is and Susana says

"Maybe everyone out there is a liar. And maybe the whole world is stupid, ignorant. But I'd rather be in it. I'd rather be ****ing in it, than down here with you." (I***8217;m not aiming that angry comment at you it just reminds of the sentiment of that part of the film where she wants to be in the world so experience the good parts, not be stuck in the loony bin. )
  #9  
Old 5th December 2006, 13:19
crimson~raven crimson~raven is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Ah sorry there was swearing in the quote I copied in I think some one edited it for me thank you I just came back to check it as I remembered the f word apologies on that one.:embarass:
  #10  
Old 5th December 2006, 13:22
Shallah
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Not to worry the swear filter takes care of most of it
  #11  
Old 5th December 2006, 13:53
crimson~raven crimson~raven is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Ah phew thats cool x
  #12  
Old 5th December 2006, 14:23
Deepguy Deepguy is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadindoors
Perhaps, though, l should thank you all - because l really am clear now that l haven't got SA - not least because l am not prepared to think there's anything wrong with me for being nervous about other people.

The fact that people on this site don't seem to be prepared to engage seriously with what l think is a serious issue, just confirms my opinion that l should be wary of everyone.

All my life, l've felt as if other people aren't really interested in what l say and think - and l hope l've finally reached the point where l have the confidence to believe that l no longer have to feel that's because there's something badly wrong with me.
Bob
But that's the whole point of coming to terms and dealing with SA -realising that there isn't something wrong with you that makes you fundamentally unable to relate to other people. Thinking that there is is the one of the major route causes of SA, wouldn't you say?

It comes down to a pragmatic question, really. What's the most useful - having SA symptoms and saying to yourself 'OK, the world's a really nasty place, so I'm better off tolerating these symptoms and not trying to relate to other people', or saying 'I want to do something about this'. Which is going to make you happier in the long run?

The world and other people aren't perfect, far from it, but shutting ourselves off from it isn't going to make it any better. You're right that completely blaming ourselves and telling ourselves we're defective is not the answer. But neither is blaming everything and everyone else, either.
  #13  
Old 5th December 2006, 14:47
Tiger Tiger is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

I don't know of anyone who has been labeled deviant and neurotic for having SA, irrational yes, as by definition, SA, Social Phobia etc is 'an irrational fear of people.

I agree with the other comments posted to your message, evryone suffers anxiety, we just suffer more than most. I have found a lot of people suffered abuse as children, mental, physical and sexual, which seems to kick off personal judgements about our own self-worth, lack of confidence and self-esteem.

I for one and not turning my back on the world, it is far to lonely for that. However, one thing I have done that really helped is to not watch the news anymore, far to negative for me, you will feel better not watching or reading newspapers..

Try not to take your frustration and anger out on the site members, we are not out to diss you, we are on your side and to me, everyone trys to help one another.
  #14  
Old 5th December 2006, 17:14
Innervision Innervision is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadindoors
Yesterday, l posted what l thought was a really serious and important thread, but l'm really disappointed with the responses other people posted.

It seems that no-one here is prepared to take seriously my suggestion that we might not be crazy for being socially anxious.

I can only conclude from that that people on this site seem to be perfectly happy with being labelled deviant, neurotic, irrational etc. Why doesn't anyone seem to be prepared to even think about the possibility that it might be entirely rational to be wary of other people in this society ?

I believe we live in a really toxic society, full of crazed selfish aggressive egomaniacs - and everyone here seems to want to be like them and to join in their nasty game.

Perhaps, though, l should thank you all - because l really am clear now that l haven't got SA - not least because l am not prepared to think there's anything wrong with me for being nervous about other people.

The fact that people on this site don't seem to be prepared to engage seriously with what l think is a serious issue, just confirms my opinion that l should be wary of everyone.

All my life, l've felt as if other people aren't really interested in what l say and think - and l hope l've finally reached the point where l have the confidence to believe that l no longer have to feel that's because there's something badly wrong with me.

Thanks for listening - if you have.

Bob
I think there are a lot of reasons why people don't reply to any given thread on the boards. I'd possibly have replied to your thread, but alas, I've been away since last Saturday. Anyhow, the reasons most people do not post a reply are not negative ones in my opinion.

I, personally, take your idea that we may not be crazy absolutely seriously. In fact, despite feeling totally mad in the past, I don't for a moment believe in the present that we are in any way mad, neurotic or deviant because we are SA.

Social anxiety is a completely normal and natural part of life that we all have to some extent or other. Our anxieties are there to protect us and warn us of danger. Today's world, as you have stated, is a very toxic environment physically, mentally and spiritually, so it is entirely natural to feel anxiety when surrounded by such negativity and potential danger. Are we mad for feeling all this? Not in the slightest. Anxiety in these circumstances is quite rational.

Where the line gets crossed, though, is when those anxieties are vastly out of context and proportion to the real dangers around us in any given situation. It is when we want to do things with life, but we are so crippled by anxiety we feel totally unable to do so. This is when normal anxiety has crossed over into Social Anxiety Disorder. It doesn't mean we are mad, crazy, deviant or neurotic, though.

I'd not be happy to be labelled such things, but what others make of me is their business. I'd certainly not put such labels on myself, though.

In regard to being wary of everyone. I try not to be. I try to go in with an open mind. My in-built gut instincts always tell me who and what to be wary of anyway, so there is no need for me to meet people with a heightened state of wariness in place from the outset. Gut instinct is an extremely accurate measure of genuine threat - if only we learn how to use it properly and filter out anxiety levels that are at fever pitch in normal day-to-day situations because of Social Anxiety Disorder, rather than normal, and natural, levels of anxiety in some social situations. Everyone gets those, and they are not S.A.D. They are just part of normal everyday living in a hectic, and often intimidating, world.

As I said earlier, there is a cross-over point where normal, and quite rational, anxiety becomes irrational and severely debilitating to some people. This does not make us defective, but it does point to our thinking and perceptions of the true levels of danger out there being somewhat skewed and out of all proportion. Left unaddressed, this can mushroom into wildly irrational thinking that can cause great distortion and harm to our quality of life. As time goes by, some people can feel crazy, mad and neurotic, I know I used to do, but it doesn't mean we genuinely are so.

I'm not sure that many people here on the site crave to join the crazy aspects of life around them. My feeling is that what they actually crave is the freedom to choose. SA is dictatorial and rules people's lives with a rod of iron. I just feel that the vast majority of people here just want to feel free of those restraints so they feel they have choices in life. Most people here give me the impression they are looking for quality of life rather than quantity and excess. They just want to feel free of SA so they have choices and feel confident enough to plough their own furrow, rather than jump inline with the pack and follow them like sheep.

As far as engaging with serious issues is concerned. Honestly, don't take it to heart. If god himself posted here and opened a thread telling us all the meaning of life, he would probably only get 4 replies - and two of them would be to disagree with him.
We are all at a different place in our lives, and what is crushingly important to us does not always get the same response from others. Even so, your thread may have got hundreds of nods of agreement from readers, but they may not have responded for any one of 100 reasons.

Take care, Bob.

Dave.
  #15  
Old 5th December 2006, 22:12
blubs blubs is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

about labelling ourselves as 'crazy'.
I've never thought of myself as having a mental illness.
I don't think SA could be classed in the same way as something like schitzophrenia.
I see it as a behavioural problem....the same way that any animal will develop a behavioural problem if it's needs aren't met.
  #16  
Old 5th December 2006, 22:16
EnJay EnJay is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Don't be disappointed with me, i only saw these threads today.

Am i crazy? No idea. Doesn't change my day one jot if i'm classed as crazy or not, i'm still moi.
  #17  
Old 5th December 2006, 22:22
Mental Elf Mental Elf is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnJay
Don't be disappointed with me, i only saw these threads today.

Am i crazy? No idea. Doesn't change my day one jot if i'm classed as crazy or not, i'm still moi.

well said i think i feel the same about that!
  #18  
Old 5th December 2006, 22:41
Paul Paul is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

You can call yourself what you like. But you did jump to conclusions about what people were thinking which is what SA is all about. I used to think like you, but all I can say is you can't be complacent forever it catches up with you.

There is a difference between someone who is comfortable being introverted and somebody who is complacent about SA. I think in reality you know it is a problem. By definition it's a disorder when it is a problem.

Yes what you said is true there is a rational side, in a way that depression doesn't have. Depressive though patterns don't need a context. SA though patterns have a context but it is rational only in the sense that your thought pattern is could be feasible but not necessarily credible. Having said that some SA thoughts are not even feasible. Still the fear is real from your point of view, which is the main thing. Neurologically you can say the possible origins of that fear are just like a catalyst. Right now your situation might have moved on but your reaction is similar. So it is a learned behaviour that you try to unlearn.

This is my point of view from my experience. Please don't think I'm rubbishing your idea. I thinks sometimes we have these thoughts that are so real, except it is fiction, but that is the you expect to happen so it must be true.


  #19  
Old 6th December 2006, 17:52
yamyam yamyam is offline
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Default Re: I'm Disappointed with You

I feel disappointed in anybody who feels justified in fearing and shunning all of society just because there are terrible people in the world. Humanity is deeply flawed and it's selfish as a survival instinct. That does not mean that most people are supervillains who would hurt you as soon as look at you. Most people in this world are ordinary people who do the best they can and try to get along with others. To think anything else isn't realistic, it's a problem. A certain amount of pessimism is healthy, but there comes a point when it just becomes paranoia. Have you considered that maybe the reason people here aren't going 'Eureka! You've found the solution to all our problems! Our saviour!' is because many of us just might be better at dealing with social anxiety than you are at the moment? Calling yourself justified and rational just means that you're unwilling to face the issue. You're prepared to villify everybody else before accepting that maybe, just maybe, you might have a phobia that needs some support.

I'm not deviant and crazy and neither are you. That doesn't mean that everybody else is. Wanting to be able to answer the phone without my palms sweating and my heart racing doesn't mean that I'm kissing up to the bad guys. Nor does wanting to be able to walk through the streets without feeling like under a spotlight and everybody is laughing at me. The therapist I saw for the first time a couple of days ago - she was kind and attentive and probably not an egomaniac, but I could barely stand to face her. That just might be something about myself that I need to change. It's never as simple as 'us versus them'.
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