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Old 17th March 2008, 10:02
cheesehoven cheesehoven is offline
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Default Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens

Last week, virtually unreported in Britain, the extraordinary winter weather of 2008 elsewhere in the world continued. In the USA, there were blizzards as far south as Texas and Arkansas, while in northern states and Canada what they are calling "the winter from hell" has continued to break records going back in some cases to 1873. Meanwhile in Asia more details emerged of the catastrophe caused by the northern hemisphere's greatest snow cover since 1966.

Read more from Christopher Booker
In Afghanistan, where they have lost 300,000 cattle, the human death toll has risen above 1,500. In China, the havoc created by what its media call "the Winter Snow Disaster" has continued, not least in Tibet, where six months of snow and record low temperatures have killed 500,000 animals, leaving 3 million people on the edge of starvation.

It might have seemed timely that in New York an array of leading climatologists and other experts should have gathered for the most high-powered international conference yet to question the "consensus" on global warming. After three days of what the chairman called "the kind of free-spirited debate that is virtually absent from the global warming alarmist camp", the 500 delegates issued the Manhattan Declaration, stating that attempts by governments to reduce CO2 emissions would "markedly diminish further prosperity" while having "no appreciable impact" on the Earth's warming.

This inevitably attracted the kind of hysterical abuse that has become so familiar from warmist fanatics, tellingly contrasting with the measured arguments put forward by the scientists present. One was Anthony Watts, the meteorologist who last year famously forced Nasa's Goddard Institute to correct a fundamental error in its data on US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s but the 1930s.

On his website, Watts Up With That, he is currently posting a corrected version of the global temperature graph, combining satellite and surface data from all four main official sources. A measure of his scrupulous reporting is that although this shows a recent dramatic dip in temperatures, he cautiously explains that it is not yet conclusive evidence that the world has entered a new cooling phase (as he points out, there was temporarily an even sharper drop after the "peak" El Niņo year 1998).

But can we doubt that, if the data showed the opposite, the media would be rushing to report this as yet further "proof" that the planet is heating out of control? The fact is that, for all their caveats that this drop in temperatures can be explained by the cooling effect of La Niņa, the official orthodoxy that "more CO2 means more warming" is facing its most serious challenge yet. In light of the colossal price we are all in so many ways being asked to pay for it, the data in coming years will be more than interesting.
Personally, it seems to me that the evidence that the climate has heated up over the last 200 years is overwhelming. It is far from clear what is causing it though. I'm no scientist so I have to trust that majority verdict that human activity has been involve, but even scientists seem unsure about what is the precise means is.
I do wonder whether a certain selectivity has been applied to the evidence to make us draw a certain conclusion, as has definitely been the case with hurricanes. 200 or so years ago the world entered a mini ice age, again for an unknown reason, and since we have been progressively coming out of that, it is not surprising that temperatures are rising. However, there seems to be evidence that England was actually warmer in the middle ages than it is now and grew grapes something that has only recently become possible again.
Not sure what the truth is but it is important we are informed properly and not subjected to scare stories.
Old 17th March 2008, 12:01
Moksha Moksha is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Colchester in Essex
Posts: 2,616
Default Re: Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens

All I'd say is this: it seems perfectly obvious to me that our winters are milder than when even I was a small boy. Every year we seem to have "the mildest February ever recorded" or the hottest day etc. There is a boggy heath near me that used to freeze every winter when I was a kid. You'd be able to walk across it without getting your feet wet. In the last 8 or 9 years it hasn't frozen once and I haven't been able to walk across it in decent shoes.

Also, my Doctor recently told me that since he's been at our surgery (20 years or so) there has been an explosion in the number of cases of skin cancer

From what I can make out the experts generally seem to agree that the world is getting warmer. The only real debate appears to be whether human beings are causing it or not. The climate does change naturally (in the 13th century the UK was a much warmer place- grapes grown in Kent and all that). Personally I think the human race is ****ed anyway. As the rest of the world increasingly follows the American model they are equally going to start demanding an American style consumer lifestyle: cars for a billion Chinese, fridgefreezers for the 800 million Indians. It is mad.

The big problem the world is not facing up to is overpopulation. There are way too many people on this planet. It is insane and is just going to cause unimagineable suffering in the future.
Old 17th March 2008, 12:43
miŠo miŠo is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Default Re: Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens

Originally Posted by Moksha
The big problem the world is not facing up to is overpopulation. There are way too many people on this planet. It is insane and is just going to cause unimagineable suffering in the future.
Don't worry about it, that's going to be rectified by the biblical floods brought on by global warming
Old 17th March 2008, 12:58
Scum Cookie Scum Cookie is offline
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Default Re: Climate dissent grows hotter as chill deepens

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