fear of sincerity

[Kevin Hodge]

one of the big problems for me is that i'm scared to be sincere.

posting on here i have been able to seriously discuss some things that really interest me. however, i often find myself thinking that i can't do this face to face.

in 'real life', whenever i have tried to talk about these sorts of things, people just aren't interested. it's so demoralising and embarassing when this happens. i become animated while i'm talking and get my hopes up and thenit just falls flat. i end up feeling a tool.

i know i have to get over this before i can even go to a meet. i could easily fake my way through a meet, but i want it to actually mean something to me, i'm so bored and lonely from not having any friends to interact with 'as me', instead of the act i put on.

so. just wondered if anyone else feels like this or has any advice.

[threadbare]

are you worried that you will be judged as a 'tool' for appearing over-enthusiastic about subjects which interest you? the responses you get in real-life could just be to do with the fact that you have fairly in-depth and possibly more obscure or individual interests than a lot of people, and that you are really passionate about these, so that others might not feel able to contribute to discussions on these subjects at the same level as you. it doesn't mean they are judging you negatively. they might actually envy your enthusiasm.

it's not very fulfilling to feel you are constantly talking to other people on their terms, but at the one and only SAUK meet i went to i found that people were amazingly receptive and i was able to be more open and honest than i usually am in real-life. maybe try not to apply too many conditions or expectations to your first meet though. managing to get yourself along to one is an achievement in itself, it'll give you a chance to test the water and build on things from there.

[Kevin Hodge]

regarding the tool scenario - um...here's the sort of thing that happens. in the course of the usual chitchat small-talk routines you have to go through, sometimes a topic of interest to me will come up.

i will then perhaps come out with a sentence with which i might seek to go further into this topic. i start to get my hopes up and get a bit exciteable because i think that finally some of what i do with other people is not going to be just a routine, just a boring charade.

then people will respond as if they haven't been listening to what i just said and/or don't understand me, or else they will just tail off and the conversation will die, leaving me to try to make it look as if i haven't just killed the conversation.

i have had people leave the staff room on me because talk was getting 'a bit technical', as if the thought of people saying things they aren't familiar with makes them really uncomfortable.

i wouldn't say that i get passionate about things so that people can't match my enthusiasm. the emotional build-up happens inside. i really just mentioned this because it makes me feel really pent up, and when the talk dies, i feel silly...just 'an outcast again'. i get excited and then let down.

something in-built in this dilemma is that, as you say, maybe i just want to go into things in more depth than some people. i just find it really bizarre that noone ever seems to want to talk about anything in any depth at all!

the big problem is just as you say - that i am always talking to people on their terms. in fact it's more extreme than that - after many years of this i have a really hard job figuring out what parts are 'me' and what parts are just there to help me get by.

your experiences of a meet sound encouraging, but i feel as if i have been damaged by this, i actually suppress my nature internally now because i know that trying to talk about the things i care about just leads to bad feelings. my thought patterns have changed and i need to fix them, so that i can even allow myself to think that i can discuss the things that interest me.

anyway, yeah, i guess you're right about not building up expectations before my first meet. it's still a long way, and probably a change of identity( ) off.

thanks for your response. i'm not being corny, but the subject of this thread is an example of something that i wish i could talk about but can't. quite often in forums i find myself really thanking people and saying how much it means to me to be able to talk about whatever it is we are talking about. i feel weird about saying thanks like that, like it's unusual, but it does give me a chance to be sincere about something. when i am analysing the conversations later on(as lots of us do i'm sure), i feel good about saying things like that - i feel i have gotten something 'real' across.

[Occultus]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

One of the big problems for me is that i'm scared to be sincere.

You told me that you work in an old people's home. I guess that it's a fairly similar field to me. I generally get on very well with the people I work with, staff and residents, and find that sincerity plays a huge part in the work that I do (whether you like it or not sometimes, I might add)

I just wondered if you perhaps felt that you could be sincere, without fear of reproach, with the elderly people that you work with and obviously look after?

[Kevin Hodge]

that's an interesting dimension you've touched on.

in the area of care, i find myself sacrificing my personality most of all. i have a lot of messy stuff going on in my head, and some old lady who's really fed up with herself cause she can't get to the toilet in time deserves better than me freaking out.

what they get therefore is an act. a lot of the old folks respond really well to me, so i don't feel bad that i'm not being sincere, but i sometimes do feel like a fool when i hear myself talking to them in a way i would never 'normally' talk...i just feel like i wish my feelings could accomodate being in that situation, that i would be able to feel present in the room with these people, instead of being stashed away behind a facade.

but the thing that really gets to me about this is the social aspect, the way i can't be with people recreationally because i don't know how to 'bring myself out'.

[Occultus]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

in the area of care, i find myself sacrificing my personality most of all.

What is it that you feel you are sacrificing?

Originally Posted by sullenskink

what they get therefore is an act. a lot of the old folks respond really well to me, so i don't feel bad that i'm not being sincere, but i sometimes do feel like a fool when i hear myself talking to them in a way i would never 'normally' talk

I too sometimes feel that my behaviour is 'an act', perhaps even a little contrived from time to time, but that does not alter my genuine intentions. My intentions are good. I'm pretty sure that yours are also. Hell, we wouldn't do this kind of work otherwise I feel. The 'act' is nothing more than a coping mechanism and should be seen as nothing more.The fact that the people you work with respond well to you speaks volumes and clearly shows that your real feelings and personality, however much you feel they may be repressed, are showing through and appreciated nonetheless.

[Kevin Hodge]

Originally Posted by Occultus

What is it that you feel you are sacrificing?



I too sometimes feel that my behaviour is 'an act', perhaps even a little contrived from time to time, but that does not alter my genuine intentions. My intentions are good. I'm pretty sure that yours are also. Hell, we wouldn't do this kind of work otherwise I feel. The 'act' is nothing more than a coping mechanism and should be seen as nothing more.The fact that the people you work with respond well to you speaks volumes and clearly shows that your real feelings and personality, however much you feel they may be repressed, are showing through and appreciated nonetheless.

the sacrifice is a complete absence of feeling that you are in the situation. all my feelings make me want to go hide in a corner somewhere(...so there's my sa) but while i am feeling that i am trying to be all nice and kind to an old lady or whatever...obviously totally fake.

but there's hardly ever anything positive about being with people for me. it freaks me out and i rarely get any stimulation
from it.

i'm glad that you pointed out what you did about my intentions. i know this might seem dramatic, but i find it hard to believe that i do anything at all for a good reason. but i really don't want to upset other people, so i guess that's good.

i can't quite take this on board but i will HAVE to factor this into my view of myself now that you mentioned it, that there is good in me. i tend to characterise myself as a frantic, immoral maniac who just goes around trying to make sure people don't know i'm actually freaking out. and then another big part of my view of myself is that i'm so frantic i can't process the feelings i have which tell me when i am doing something wrong. althouhg that's another story, you pointing out that at least i try not to be horrible at work will help me make inroads into this.

i suppose it's a combination of being scared of being with people and not being able to find people with things in common with me. among other things.

[Kevin Hodge]

Originally Posted by CowardlyLion

I'm exactly the same, I would try to talk about my interests, and i'd get the blank stare, or even worse, that "bemused look". So I would just clam up,

In the rare moments I felt comfortable enough to talk, I was craving a decent, in depth conversation, but no it was all football, Big Brother, or what they did in a club last night.



Sorry, I'm not helping much with your questions, I don't understand people at all

it helps to at least see that my problem isn't my own unique failing.

what are we supposed to do? i don't want to have to join a club or something for every single thing that i find interesting, just so that i can talk to people about it.

another problem is that even if i found someone i could talk to about a particular interest, there's still a pretty high chance that i'd find them to be a horrible person.

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

it helps to at least see that my problem isn't my own unique failing.

what are we supposed to do? i don't want to have to join a club or something for every single thing that i find interesting, just so that i can talk to people about it.

another problem is that even if i found someone i could talk to about a particular interest, there's still a pretty high chance that i'd find them to be a horrible person.

Why do you think there's a high chance you'd find them to be a horrible person?....... Perhaps when you go to the meets you'll meet soneone with the same interest's as you,alot of people here seem to enjoy talking about things in depth.

[Kevin Hodge]

maybe people at meets might be different, but i've had lots of shit 'friends' along the way, while waiting to end up as some nutter with sa, my current state. that's why i think people are horrible.

even people that seem to have good morals are quite often walking contradictions. i've been let down with that too.

but you are right. i need to keep trying, and i suppose i will eventually go along to a meet.

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

maybe people at meets might be different, but i've had lots of shit 'friends' along the way, while waiting to end up as some nutter with sa, my current state. that's why i think people are horrible.

even people that seem to have good morals are quite often walking contradictions. i've been let down with that too.

but you are right. i need to keep trying, and i suppose i will eventually go along to a meet.

I guess we all need to keep trying, bloody hard somtimes though isn't it! You should go to a meet though,I probably will one day too..........I personally think we get what we expect,we project our own feeling's on to those around us and that's what we get back. Having said that, it is so hard to think positive I know,especially when you've been let down before,you'll be constantly looking for evidence that people will hurt you, as you expect them to

[Bob Garside]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

maybe people at meets might be different, but i've had lots of shit 'friends' along the way, while waiting to end up as some nutter with sa, my current state. that's why i think people are horrible.

even people that seem to have good morals are quite often walking contradictions. i've been let down with that too.

I've had a fair few shit 'friends' too (I've got two at the moment who I have - hopefully - successfully alienated by arguing with them.) They've been dragging me down for years and I'm realising that I'm probably better off on my own, even if it means I might go out once a year as opposed to three.

In regards to the 'walking contradictions', you often find that most people who proudly 'talk the talk' in terms of how decent they are actually use that as a shield against their inability to actually 'walk the walk'. At least you seem to question your actions (possibly too much, like myself included) rather than sanctimoniously walking through life thinking your moral opinion is the only option and others must take heed.

I think that it takes time to realise that most people aren't perfect and never will be perfect. In fact, the ones who initially seem most perfect to begin with actually end up being the complete opposite of that. We're all flawed but many of us seem to realise that fact more than others.

Regarding meets, I went to my first on Saturday. It was obviously a nervy occasion (and there's all the self-perception crap ricocheting round inside the brain in regards to speech/appearance etc.) but I felt 'allowed to be crap' and it kind of lifted a fair bit of pressure off the way I was feeling. There was no pressure to 'make friends', you could just sit and say nothing, if you wanted, and it would be OK.

I think if you went to a meet it wouldn't be anywhere near as horrible as you might think it might be. But then it probably wouldn't set your world alight, either. It'll probably be, just...a pretty good thing, no more, no less.

[Kevin Hodge]

Originally Posted by dannygirl

I personally think we get what we expect,we project our own feeling's on to those around us and that's what we get back.

ithat's like what your sig says. i noticed your sig the other day, i agree with it very much.

i think the mechanism is that if you don't seem to mind being pushed around, controlled, mistreated and bullied, then the preson doing this thinks that they aren't doing anything wrong. i've been mistreated in this way, and i've since learned to project a more confident persona (sometimes) and these same people completely change their behaviour.

anyway, this is a quickie. i need to go get ready for nightshift, but i keep looking at posts! more tomorrow...

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

ithat's like what your sig says. i noticed your sig the other day, i agree with it very much.

i think the mechanism is that if you don't seem to mind being pushed around, controlled, mistreated and bullied, then the preson doing this thinks that they aren't doing anything wrong. i've been mistreated in this way, and i've since learned to project a more confident persona (sometimes) and these same people completely change their behaviour.

anyway, this is a quickie. i need to go get ready for nightshift, but i keep looking at posts! more tomorrow...

To be continued..... :D

[Kevin Hodge]

yeah, so in the course of htis thread it has occured to me that a big problem is that i am too weak to feel comfortable about being different form someone. by this i mean that if someone looks at something in a different way to me, i fear putting my own view across, thinking it'll lead to them rejecting me or thinking i'm a weirdo.

i can reason that there will be quite a lot of people who aren't like this, it's just that i've had my thought patterns 'trained' by lots of people who are. i think i can get over this in time, it doesn't seem insurmountable or anything.

anyway, another thing is that...i feel as if i just don't know where i stand on a lot of issues. whenever a new concept comes into my brain, my mind really goes at it frantically - to feel that i've reached my own conclusion about something i have to spend a lot of time thinking about it. i don't think this is because i'm stupid(although i wouldn't rule that out!), it's more that i probably think about things too much or something. so...a lot of the time issues come up which i don't have a fixed opinion on yet, and this can feel a bit...lame.

so, another bucnh of fiddly head problems to squiggle about inconclusively in my brain.

posting here generally really does help to iron out these things tho. it just gives me and oppotunity to actually see how i feel about talking to people - it's safe to do that here, whereas i've given up trying in the real world.

i feel kind of guilty now because i've said a lot of things and some people have listened. but, um, thanks for listening.

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

ithat's like what your sig says. i noticed your sig the other day, i agree with it very much.

i think the mechanism is that if you don't seem to mind being pushed around, controlled, mistreated and bullied, then the preson doing this thinks that they aren't doing anything wrong. i've been mistreated in this way, and i've since learned to project a more confident persona (sometimes) and these same people completely change their behaviour.

anyway, this is a quickie. i need to go get ready for nightshift, but i keep looking at posts! more tomorrow...

Yeah I think people pick up on the way a person feels/behaves and they act accordingly.That's why it's even harder when you have sa!I think it's really great that you can project a more confident persona, that's half the battle.............. I do think that people are basically decent and,given a chance,will do you a good turn,...well I try to anyway Sometimes though I think people are only out for themselves,(depending on my mood). Which is true? Simply the one you decide is true.Thinking positive is very difficult though, I'm still trying to master it, getting there slowly. :D

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

yeah, so in the course of htis thread it has occured to me that a big problem is that i am too weak to feel comfortable about being different form someone. by this i mean that if someone looks at something in a different way to me, i fear putting my own view across, thinking it'll lead to them rejecting me or thinking i'm a weirdo.

i can reason that there will be quite a lot of people who aren't like this, it's just that i've had my thought patterns 'trained' by lots of people who are. i think i can get over this in time, it doesn't seem insurmountable or anything.

anyway, another thing is that...i feel as if i just don't know where i stand on a lot of issues. whenever a new concept comes into my brain, my mind really goes at it frantically - to feel that i've reached my own conclusion about something i have to spend a lot of time thinking about it. i don't think this is because i'm stupid(although i wouldn't rule that out!), it's more that i probably think about things too much or something. so...a lot of the time issues come up which i don't have a fixed opinion on yet, and this can feel a bit...lame.

so, another bucnh of fiddly head problems to squiggle about inconclusively in my brain.

posting here generally really does help to iron out these things tho. it just gives me and oppotunity to actually see how i feel about talking to people - it's safe to do that here, whereas i've given up trying in the real world.

i feel kind of guilty now because i've said a lot of things and some people have listened. but, um, thanks for listening.

I don't know how?? but somehow I missed this post earlier when I looked, strange anyway gotta go just now will post tomorrow

Originally Posted by sullenskink

one of the big problems for me is that i'm scared to be sincere.

posting on here i have been able to seriously discuss some things that really interest me. however, i often find myself thinking that i can't do this face to face.

in 'real life', whenever i have tried to talk about these sorts of things, people just aren't interested. it's so demoralising and embarassing when this happens. i become animated while i'm talking and get my hopes up and thenit just falls flat. i end up feeling a tool.
i know i have to get over this before i can even go to a meet. i could easily fake my way through a meet, but i want it to actually mean something to me, i'm so bored and lonely from not having any friends to interact with 'as me', instead of the act i put on.

so. just wondered if anyone else feels like this or has any advice.

This happens to me too.

[dannygirl]

Originally Posted by sullenskink

yeah, so in the course of htis thread it has occured to me that a big problem is that i am too weak to feel comfortable about being different form someone. by this i mean that if someone looks at something in a different way to me, i fear putting my own view across, thinking it'll lead to them rejecting me or thinking i'm a weirdo.

i can reason that there will be quite a lot of people who aren't like this, it's just that i've had my thought patterns 'trained' by lots of people who are. i think i can get over this in time, it doesn't seem insurmountable or anything.

anyway, another thing is that...i feel as if i just don't know where i stand on a lot of issues. whenever a new concept comes into my brain, my mind really goes at it frantically - to feel that i've reached my own conclusion about something i have to spend a lot of time thinking about it. i don't think this is because i'm stupid(although i wouldn't rule that out!), it's more that i probably think about things too much or something. so...a lot of the time issues come up which i don't have a fixed opinion on yet, and this can feel a bit...lame.

so, another bucnh of fiddly head problems to squiggle about inconclusively in my brain.

posting here generally really does help to iron out these things tho. it just gives me and oppotunity to actually see how i feel about talking to people - it's safe to do that here, whereas i've given up trying in the real world.

i feel kind of guilty now because i've said a lot of things and some people have listened. but, um, thanks for listening.

Lot's of people feel this way,it doesn't make you weak! everyone likes to fit in, and lot's of people may share the same opinions as you, and if they reject you because they don't , then I would think it's more of a reflection on them, and not you! I feel this way sometimes too,mainly because by giving my opinion I could end up in a debate ( which is a good thing ) but I wouldn't want to draw too much attention to myself ...........On the issue's front- I think it's wise to think things through, before making up your mind about them,why should you have to have a fixed opinion right away,I think it's good that you can look at things with an open mind, and spend some time thinking before making a snap judgement-which many people seem to do ......... Also- I'd rule out stupidity! because you certainly don't come across that way to me! - Quite the opposite