What should I expect from real friends?

Lately I'm beginning to wonder why I bother giving so much and worrying about making other people happy and comfortable, when this is no way near reciprocal.

If you don't know what happened on my 21st birthday/leaving 'party' then read my post in the lounge (going out for my 21st - not the first post but the post-'party' one).

I'm asking this because i really don't know - what should I expect proper friends to be like? Do I actually have no real friends? Would I be right in being inspired and actually drawing something positive from my experience; learning that I shouldn't give too much (emotionally and physically) to other people? Or am I simply paranoid because of my SA, and what I perceive to be treated like sh*t is actually how 'normal' people treat eachother all the time?

I read posts on here quite frequently of people turning over a new leaf with their SA because they realise they have been, quite simply, living their life for other people. I'm beginning to think I am approaching such a milestone.

Am I too nice, or do I just expect too much?

What are real friends to you? What do you want/need from them? What will they want/need from you? Are you giving that? If you were recieving what you are currently giving then how would you realistically feel?

Edit: How we define friendship is personal to all of us. To me a real friend is someone I can open up to and share the ups and downs of life with. I don't think I need a real friendship before I can do this, I think a real friendship comes from doing this.

Nick. [1 edits; Last edit by nickabcuk at 12:42:31 Tue Jun 21 2005]

Quote: nemesis20 at 19***58;21***58;50 Sun Jun 19 2005

I'm asking this because i really don't know - what should I expect proper friends to be like? Do I actually have no real friends? Would I be right in being inspired and actually drawing something positive from my experience; learning that I shouldn't give too much (emotionally and physically) to other people? Or am I simply paranoid because of my SA, and what I perceive to be treated like sh*t is actually how 'normal' people treat eachother all the time?

You shouldn't expect anything -- that's the point. If someone is your friend, the symbiosis you share with them is often intuitive. Friends should look out for each other. It's also somewhat of an instinctive quality to it.

Quote: nemesis20

I read posts on here quite frequently of people turning over a new leaf with their SA because they realise they have been, quite simply, living their life for other people. I'm beginning to think I am approaching such a milestone.

That is as maybe -- and to a point I can appreciate how you feel. But to say there is no reciprocation is probably an overstatement. It's only because "we tend to exasperate our own input and feelings towards others with intense kindness (normally) that the input we get back might not seem on the same level as what was initially supplied by us.

You just have to give people a chance. Humans are incredibly resourceful.

-- Thomas.

Quote: Only_Me at 20***58;08***58;48 Sun Jun 19 2005
[ If someone is your friend, the symbiosis you share with them is often intuitive. Friends should look out for each other. It's also somewhat of an instinctive quality to it.

Yes that's how I feel friendships should be. In the back of my mind I always feel a natural urge to look out for them.

I really don't think these can be real friends. (Emote: shake)

A true friend is someone who'll stand by you, whatever happens.

I have heard about the thing where SAers see friends as rescuers or persecuters or something. If anyone else knows more about this please explain as I forget exactly what it was about.

What's the original post called in the Lounge? I couldn't find it.

Cheers

Quote: nemesis20 at 19***58;21***58;50 Sun Jun 19 2005

I read posts on here quite frequently of people turning over a new leaf with their SA because they realise they have been, quite simply, living their life for other people. I'm beginning to think I am approaching such a milestone.

I think this is true. I think in some fashion, we do try to please others, we try to fit in, and we develop many ways of doing that. Sometimes those ways overlap our own lives and we begin to do too much.

Basically, we try too hard.

I don't think you should 'expect' anything from your friends. They owe nothing to you, and you owe nothing to them. But that doesn't say you should stop being nice to them. What I am saying, is that if you're 'nice', then do it of your own accord, of your own good will. What you shouldn't do, is be nice to people so that they will be nice back to you. Would you rather your friends were nice to you because they wanted to be, or because you wanted them to be?

The most absurd thing is, that once you stop trying to please people, then most likely they will become more pleasent (they will more likely respond to your more relaxed approach than your 'trying too hard' approach). On top of that, the ones who don't become more pleasent, you won't care about. I think SA has some qualities linked to rejection. For example, the old asking a girl out but fearing rejection scenario. I don't know why these can be such big issues for us. Maybe it's the fact that we've had so many bad experiences, or perceived bad experiences that we don't think we can handle another one.

The truth is, that some people will like you, and some won't. But the less you try to make people like you, the more people you're likely to meet that will like you. If you can get into this frame of mind, with no confusion, no jaggered perceptions of what friends should be and not be (which to me, mostly comes from the fact that we try too hard), then you will understand who your friends actually are, but not until then.


Am I confusing anybody? (Emote: confusedpurple)


Hope it makes some sense. I really think twice about posting this stuff sometimes (Emote: smash3)


mico

Thanks mico, that made a lot of sense to me (Emote: smileyellow)

I think my problem is not so much what I do or don't expect, but rather the simple fact most 'normal' people would not accept the way that I'm treated. I never try too hard, or not try enough, and the truth is I never have 'expected' anything from my 'friends' until I have recently looked at the way I am treated, which is why I am lead to being so upset.

I understand completely what you mean; we shouldn't actively EXPECT anything from friends because this would just be selfish. However, we all have subconcious 'expectations' of our friends, and there's only so many times I can say 'oh well, i'm sure they didn't mean to spend all my money', I'm sure they didn't mean never to bother calling me or asking if i'm ok', or 'I'm sure this is just a one off thing and they will be just like everone elses friends next time'.

I cannot lie to myself. (Emote: shake)

p.s. sorry chinup, the original post was 'going out for my 21st tonight' in the lounge (Emote: roundnround) [1 edits; Last edit by nemesis20 at 17:27:49 Tue Jun 21 2005]

This is one of those internal arguments that I've had with myself. I can understand the idea that not expecting anything is the best way to be. But in order to be able to recognise who your friends are and how close you are, you have to have some kind of measurement in order to protect yourself from being hurt. If you think more highly of the friendship than the friend does then it could leave you open to being hurt.

Maybe the ideal is not to worry what any friend may do or not do. But I think to be able to live like that you would have to have good self-esteem to start with.

Maybe we should aspire to be able to judge ourselves by what we love rather than by who loves us. Then if a friend did hurt us we wouldn't allow it to affect our self-esteem.
[4 edits; Last edit by darkhorse at 15:10:37 Tue Jun 21 2005]

You should always get back (from a good friendship) what you put in.

It's give and take from both parties and unfortunatley I'm one of those who has had many friendships where I give and they take. The best friendships i formed when i was at uni, but i came home at the end because i was becoming ill with it all, so my 'best' friends are down in wales, whilst my best (but not the better) friend lives in the same town.

Quote: galaxygirl01 at 18***58;25***58;01 Tue Jun 21 2005
You should always get back (from a good friendship) what you put in.

One of the points I was trying to make, is that if you do expect to get back what you put in, then you are just leaving yourself open and sooner or later going to be let down by your expectations. It's very much like perfectionism when your expectations or goals are too high for you to achieve, then after putting so much into it you simply can't reach your goal and you are let down, big time.

I agree that friends should look out for each other, help each other out from time to time, and at least show some comapassion for each other. But, it's important to look at your own thinking processes involved in these situations. Why do you react in such a way when your friends act in certain ways? And, why do your friends act the way they do? You can help answer these questions by looking at your own views.

Firstly, it's important never to play the victim. If you sit around all day thinking that your friends are against you, and that they should be nicer to you. Or that every one else seems to have nice friends and you don't, or your friends are...

If you play the victim, then you're expecting people around you to change. You want people to suddenly like you, or at least act nicer towards you, or to treat you with more respect. Trouble is, that is never going to happen by itself. There's only one thing you can change, and that's yourself. If you're having trouble with your friends and it is upsetting you, then the problem is within yourself.

That sounds really harsh. But it is the truth.

In an ideal world, your friends will help you out, always, but in reality, your friends owe you nothing, and you owe nothing to them. I stick by that statement. Anything that you give to your friends, should only be given out of kindness. No way should you give anything only to expect something in return.

Another point that I'm trying to make, is that you need to deal with your own insecurities and esteem issues in order to deal with your friends.

The main point I'm trying to make (admittedly pretty badly) is that you can't blame your friends for anything. Well, you can. But, it won't be constructive in the slightest. And that is an important point to make. What do you want, sympathy, or progress?

I used to have very good friends in the past that were mutually reciprocal and trustworthy - even if somone forgot someones birthday, or did something uncharacteristic, it was forgiveable because the mutual bond was always there. Because of this I have to something to measure how I expect friendship should be.

I've come to the conclusion that i'm still going to be a generous person, just a WARY generous person. I'm certainly not going to be a 'give give give' person or a doormat anymore.

I deleted a number of people from my mobile - it's the first step anyway!

I think we DEFINATELY as human beings EXPECT things from friendship - it must be a natural instinct so we can distinguish friends from enemies. There has to be a balance between give and take. Sure, I'm still going to have a few friends that are more 'takey' than 'givey', and I wouldn't treat them any differently, but perhaps feel pleased that I have more sensitive morals.

As for the completely negligent, using, two-faced ones: if they really want to get to know me, they know where I am, and what they can and should do...

(Emote: smash3)

Friends will just act themselves, you say that your nice to them but I bet your not nasty to everyone who isn't your friend.
The only thing I have gained from friendship is, people to pass the time with and people whose company I enjoy.
This makes me happy, if these things aren't true to you then are they worth having as friends?
I don't expect them to die for me, I dont even expect a christmas card from them, but over time you create a strong bond, and care about each others lives more.
This is just my view on friendship, and what I would consider "real friends" would be friends that I have known for the longest and know that we will always keep in touch.
From friends I would expect nothing, just enjoy the company but with real friends I would expect them to do this forever.