Climate change: our fault, or cosmic consequence?

[paulthequiet]

and is certainly persuasive enough to earn Svensmark an invite to the White House, to whisper words of encouragement in Dubya's ear

I'd suggest any theory that lets gas guzzling america off the hook would get Dubya's ear whether it was scientifically sound or the biggest load of bull ever written

There may be truth in his theory I dunno, but my guess is that its probably our fault.

[mico]

Personally, I'm not sure on global warming. Due to natural climate changes it becomes very hard to predict.

But, I won't change my stance on the stupidity that dictates we pollute the skies, the oceans, and the land with toxicities of varying nature. It doesn't take a genius to calculate the fact that we're ****ing up the planet, global warming or not.

It's like we have a network of paths on which we can walk. Some of them twist and turn through grassy meadows, past beaches, alongside mountains. Others may lead to dereliction and poverty. The one we are on, most likely it leads to the end of the earth where we fall off and die. Unfortunately there's no connecting paths at this point, so the only thing we can do is turn around and start walking back the way we came until we find another exit. IMO.

[Left Of The Dial]

I saw a programme on TV the other week which showed something not dissimilar to this. It mentioned that the number of sunspots on the sun can have an effect on the temperature of the Earth. It was on at about 2 o clock in the morning so i wasn't in the best state of mind to remember everything exactly , but the scientists on there were saying that when there are less sunspots on the sun, the temperature of the Earth decreases, and when there are more sunspots the temperature of the Earth increases.

During the mini ice age during the 17th and 18th centuries, there were less sunspots on the sun, and this time was called the Maunder Minimum. I found this on Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum. The number of sunspots on the sun at the moment is at its highest level for centuries, so this could be one of the causes of global warming and climate change.

Overall I believe that climate change is caused by us, but i think that other factors such as the ones mentioned in this thread have an impact too.

[Mu.]

I've been skeptical of our hand in climate change ever since the news was broken that global warming was occuring on Mars some time a few years ago. Unless the little green men are all driving SUV's I think there may be larger forces at work.

It doesn't change the fact that a gradually warming Earth is going to pose problems for us very quickly though.

[Innervision]

It doesn't take a genius to work out that we are making a mess of the planet with all the pollution we spew out. I'm not so sure we are the sole culprits regarding global warming, though.

Who knows? I'm no scientist or climate expert, but my own feeling is that the planet has always warmed up and cooled down, and always will do. Whichever way it goes it's not too good for us, but the planet itself will survive regardless.

All this is good news for politicians of course. They can now justify screwing every last penny out of us under the guise of being 'green' and 'saving the planet'. Our contribution of pollution may be speeding up a natural process, but I'm sceptical that it caused it.

[Barry Scott]

This planet has gone through natural 'ice ages' and warmer periods many times. Ozone depleting products such as ALL household cleaners other than CILLIT BANG really don't help though.

[Innervision]

Originally Posted by Barry Scott

This planet has gone through natural 'ice ages' and warmer periods many times. Ozone depleting products such as ALL household cleaners other than CILLIT BANG really don't help though.

You really are priceless.

[mcrelic]

My household gas bills this year and for that matter the last five years have been very reasonable even with British Gas trying to rip us off. Fewer pensioners are dying or have died during the winter for quite some time; should they even be entitled to the extra fuel payments now that they got when we last had a national chill.

Yet there is hysterics every day about global warming and the damage it is doing to our society. What a load of utter utter b*llocks.

GO and have a read of "Frozen In Time" it chronicles the extreme winter of 1946-47. 1962-63, 1978-79. The prologue about winters in the 16th, 17th and 18th century was fascinating. How on earth do we little darling in the 21st century survive when there is a ground frost now?

I just thank the great people who started the industrial revolution in the 18th century to stop the ice age and bring us a bit of warmth with the burning of fossil fuels and long may it continue.

I don't recycle, I use as much electricity as I can afford, bring on global warming.

[Freespirit]

Well I was just reading this page and was trying to think what to write. Then I turned my head to read a sign on a window across the street...it reads...

''STOP CLIMATE CHAOS, BILLIONS WILL DIE''

..as a firm believer in such things as syncronisity I have been tickled by that. I meen we could argue its a coincidence but I find its the timing of these things that strikes me as odd. That sign has been there for a long time by the looks yet I only spotted it today after reading this thread. (well begining to read). Anyways, I dont think this is a sign telling me that we are to blame for global warming. However I do think we contribute and I think we do need to try and keep this world a clean place.

Regardless of what other factors there are out of our control we need to focus on them which are within our control.

[Left Of The Dial]

Has anybody heard about the series of huge concerts they are arranging to try and highlight the cause of global warming? I found a link to it here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6367515.stm

I think that if they are trying to cut down on carbon dioxide emissions and global warming, then these concerts are not going to do anything to help that. Think of all the electricity that will be used to power the lights and speakers, as well as the C02 pumping out of the big jets used by all the performers, and people travelling to the concerts.

Also they are being arranged to highlight global warming. Erm, i think pretty much everybody has already had global warming rammed in their faces!

[jimmi]

It occurs to me that it is somewhat unsurprising that Bush would welcome with open arms any scientist that comes up with opposing theories in the climate change debate. This is after all an administration that routinely edits the reports of its own scientists to downplay environmental issues.

[goodeone]

Humans cause global warming, US admits

The admission will be a blow to US industry
The US Government has acknowledged for the first time that man-made pollution is largely to blame for global warming.
But it has again refused to shift its position on the Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty designed to mitigate global warming w
But it has again refused to shift its position on the Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty designed to mitigate global warming which the Bush administration rejected last year.

[The report] undercuts everything the president has said about global warming since he took office


Philip Clapp, National Environmental Trust
In a 268-page report submitted to the United Nations, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) endorsed what many scientists have long argued - that human activities such as oil refining, power generation and car emissions are significant causes of global warming.
The White House had previously said there was not enough scientific evidence to blame industrial emissions for global warming.
But it has again refused to shift its position on the Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty designed to mitigate global warming which the Bush administration rejected last year.


[The report] undercuts everything the president has said about global warming since he took office

Philip Clapp, National Environmental Trust
In a 268-page report submitted to the United Nations, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) endorsed what many scientists have long argued - that human activities such as oil refining, power generation and car emissions are significant causes of global warming.

The White House had previously said thereere was not enough scientific evidence to blame industrial emissions for global warming.

The submission of the EPA report came on the same day that all 15 European Union nations ratified the Kyoto pact.

At odds with industry

"Greenhouse gases are accumulating in the Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing global mean surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise," the report concluded.

"The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities."

That position is at odds with the president's supporters in the motor, oil and electricity industries - who maintain that more research is needed to be certain of the link between global warming and the by-products of manufacturing.

The United States is the world's largest emitter of so-called greenhouse gases.

US President George W Bush
Bush says the Kyoto treaty would damage US economic interests
Last year, the Bush administration triggered international outrage when it walked away from the Kyoto treaty.

President Bush said the treaty's goal of reduction in emissions would be too costly to the American economy.

Despite the admission of a link between human activities and global warming, the US Government has still refused to ratify the treaty, instead emphasising a voluntary approach to greenhouse gas emissions.

Such an approach is "expected to achieve emission reductions comparable to the average reductions prescribed by the Kyoto agreement, but without the threats to economic growth that rigid national emission limits would bring," the report said.

Areas 'wiped out'

The EPA report also acknowledged that global warming was set to continue - forecasting that total US greenhouse gas emissions will increase by 43% from 2000 and 2020.

The report recommended various adaptation strategies, such as "changing planting dates and varieties to significantly offset economic losses and increase relative yields".

It also concluded that global warming would probably wipe out certain fragile areas altogether.

"A few ecosystems, such as alpine meadows in the Rocky Mountains and some barrier islands, are likely to disappear entirely," the report said.

Environmental groups claim the new report is a major U-turn by the Bush administration.

"[The report] undercuts everything the president has said about global warming since he took office," said Philip Clapp, president of the National Environmental Trust.

Climate change is on the agenda of a global summit on sustainable development taking place in Johannesburg in August.

The US is expected to face heavy criticism at the meeting, especially from the EU, for not doing more to fight global warming.

There was not enough scientific evidence to blame industrial emissions for global warming.

The submission of the EPA report came on the same day that all 15 European Union nations ratified the Kyoto pact.