The Autism-Spectrum Quotient (AQ) Test

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Yorkie

Ok, you started it though

Lol I just identified the term, nothing more.

[Yorkie]

Originally Posted by nessa456

Lol I just identified the term, nothing more.

I can be a bit of a hyperchondriac and start thinking things are wrong with me that arent really

[VO2]

Originally Posted by nessa456

No one is trying to force a diagnosis of anything on anyone!
People with Asperger's Syndrome usually recognise themselves in the diagnosis criteria ie they don't fight the idea they actively seek answers.

Nessa what do you think about the proposed merger of autism and Asperger’s disorder into a single ‘spectrum’ category? I think a lot of people with Asperger's have objected to this ,havent they?



Link

[i_like_mittens]

Originally Posted by nessa456

It was never meant to!

I know. That was my point exactly - that it's an autism spectrum test, not a social anxiety test... so that it's not meant to measure SA.

I wasn't referring to you in that comment nessa, I was referring to the person (earlier in the thread) who thought people with social anxiety shouldn't score low on the AQ test.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by VO2

Nessa what do you think about the proposed merger of autism and Asperger’s disorder into a single ‘spectrum’ category? I think a lot of people with Asperger's have objected to this ,havent they?



Link

I don't think it makes that much difference really. All that would happen is that people with Asperger's would be diagnosed as High-Functioning Autistic instead. They'd still need to define exactly where on the autistic spectrum a person was so would still end up using qualifiers so I think the term Asperger's Syndrome would still be used unofficially.

It makes the creation fo the Asperger's Syndrome in the first place all the more ridiculous if they can suddenly decide to get rid of it on a whim!

[Mortigantoj]

20

[catlover]

One difficulty I have with online psychological tests is that my answers depend on the kind of mood I'm in, and on the unstated particulars of the questions.
For example, consider the first statement of the online test: "I prefer to do things with others rather than on my own." If I'm having a good day, or if I'm thinking about doing something that I have already done many times, with people that I'm comfortable, I'll be more likely to agree with the statement.

I can envision myself legitimately giving any of the four answers depending on how I feel at the moment.

[Phool]

Originally Posted by halfemptyglass

That definitely sounds like something I need to read some more about, and add to my list of potential problems to take to a shrink. Oh this poor shrink

Its so strange because I read your earlier post and thought that's like me. Even your post in the 'how are you feeling thread' about mood cycles and the thread in the basement about de ja vu etc I relate to. Cynic has posted some links maybe we could research together and compare notes?

Originally Posted by halfemptyglass

I got 31. I'd say I have more traits than average, but I wouldn't put myself on the spectrum - or at least I would be very high-functioning.

I'm a very mathematical/logical thinker, and definitely have the obsessive interests and dislike of routine disruption etc.

But I love fiction, I'm imaginative, I'm very empathetic... but much better in theory, than in practice. And I'm never sure whether it's anxiety that stops me being able to put this into practice (so whether I'm too anxious and have too low self esteem to properly read other people) or whether I just can't properly read people in reality (because I'm actually a bit more on this spectrum than I realise) and this makes me anxious.

Likewise. I too am a researcher but love reading, painting and arts and crafts. I was discussing with someone else the other day that maybe giftedness turns you into a bit of a polymath because of the capacity and need to learn new things. e.g. I did a law degree followed by a masters in public policy and management which was research heavy. Most people think its a bizzarre career path. LoL

People generally see me as very empathetic as I posted on the 'what are you good qualities' thread. People feel comfortable talking to me about their problems. Nice for them, can get a bit draining for me. LoL

[Phool]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Or would that be the 'Starchild/Adult Indigo' camp?

http://www.starchild.co.za/adult.html
http://skepdic.com/indigo.html
http://www.sunfell.com/indigo.htm
http://www.metagifted.org/topics/met.../adultIndigos/


I can picture those being your last words as Copernicium and his henchmen lead you to the gas chambers!

Thanks for the links Cynic. One of the reasons I am interested in autism and aspergers is because I did read somewhere that a lot of people with these disorders also have a tendancy towards giftedness. Also because one of my friends at work has two teenage sons, one is autistic and the other Aspie. A couple of years ago I took the autistic one on for work experience and helped his mum get him onto the right course at college. So have a bit of a personal interest in the subject too.

BTW - I think Coper was just trying to diffuse tension. LoL

[Cinderella]

Most interesting thread we've had on sa uk for while- just look at all the discussion it's created.

Im not ignoring the responses I had when I said that people who scored below 10 can't have any social anxiety...suppose it just came out without really thinking

Suppose every individual is different and some people are anxious in some situations but the rest of the time they're fine ...from the psychological point of view social anxiety is a learned response and is caused by low self esteem/other issues- which can be rectified with professional help and self-motivation. Aspergers syndrome or autism is how you are wired neurologically and your traits can't be improved in any way but worked with so they have a good quality of life? Thanks for that enlightenment

I have trouble remembering names or faces though that's probably due to avoidance... If Ive known someone along time or see them everyday and share memories with them then I am more likely to remember them...

[firemonkey]

How similar is a nonverbal learning disorder to aspergers?

[firemonkey]

Found these sites http://www.nldontheweb.org/
http://www.nldline.com/

Latter site has these articles re difference http://www.nldline.com/as_vs_nld.htm

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Phool

Thanks for the links Cynic. One of the reasons I am interested in autism and aspergers is because I did read somewhere that a lot of people with these disorders also have a tendancy towards giftedness. Also because one of my friends at work has two teenage sons, one is autistic and the other Aspie. A couple of years ago I took the autistic one on for work experience and helped his mum get him onto the right course at college. So have a bit of a personal interest in the subject too.

BTW - I think Coper was just trying to diffuse tension. LoL

Most people with Aspergers and Autism are not gifted - that's a fact.

Why is it so important to be more special than others?

There are savants, who can be autistic:-

"Savant Syndrome is a rare condition in which people with developmental disorders have one or more areas of expertise, ability, or brilliance that are in contrast with the individual's overall limitations. Although not a recognized medical diagnosis, researcher Darold Treffert says the condition may be either genetic or acquired.

According to Treffert, about half of all people with savant syndrome have autistic disorder, while the other half have another developmental disability, mental retardation, brain injury or disease. He says, "... not all autistic people have savant syndrome and not all people with savant syndrome have autistic disorder". Other researchers state that autistic traits and savant skills may be linked, or have challenged some earlier conclusions about savant syndrome as "hearsay, uncorroborated by independent scrutiny".

Though it is even more rare than the savant condition itself, some savants have no apparent abnormalities other than their unique abilities. This does not mean that these abilities weren't triggered by a brain dysfunction of some sort but does temper the theory that all savants are disabled and that some sort of trade-off is required. (see Prodigious Savants below)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Are you serious that you would rather be autistic than normal? The majority of self-aware Aspies I've encountered have said they would rather be normal than face a world that is hostile towards them for being "different".

Yes I would rather be autistic than normal and so would my partner.

I have more integrity in my little finger than most NTs will ever have and I just would not want to be like that.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Cinderella

Most interesting thread we've had on sa uk for while- just look at all the discussion it's created.

Im not ignoring the responses I had when I said that people who scored below 10 can't have any social anxiety...suppose it just came out without really thinking

Suppose every individual is different and some people are anxious in some situations but the rest of the time they're fine ...from the psychological point of view social anxiety is a learned response and is caused by low self esteem/other issues- which can be rectified with professional help and self-motivation. Aspergers syndrome or autism is how you are wired neurologically and your traits can't be improved in any way but worked with so they have a good quality of life? Thanks for that enlightenment

I have trouble remembering names or faces though that's probably due to avoidance... If Ive known someone along time or see them everyday and share memories with them then I am more likely to remember them...

Thanks

There was nothing wrong at all in being surprised that a low scorer would have SA - it was an intelligent analysis of the test. I was surprised as well.

I think some people can learn compensating skills for their autistic traits but this comes easier to some than others.

I think there's various kinds of Social Anxiety - the type people with AS often have is that they feel they are getting all social interaction 'wrong'. All interaction outside of my partner and some relatives feels like an ongoing test in which I fall below the accepted 'standard', as if I'm a permanent amateur. This demoralises me and hence makes me less likely to want to keep repeating the process hence I prefer to avoid people a lot of the time and only interact with people who understand me and accept me as 'normal'.

I can pick up when a person doesn't see me as completely normal within seconds and I mentally switch off to be honest - I don't really want anything more to do with them if thy can't treat me the same as they treat others.

In this way I preserve my sense of self and can see 'being me' as a good thing that I am not allowing to be modified or destroyed by the people who want me to be more 'normal' - something I couldn't achieve even if I wanted.
I maintain purity of self in other words.

It is very hard but I prefer it to being forced to pretend to be just like everyone else.

Being myself is very important to me.

I have my own philosophy of how I want the world to interact with me - it may be unrealistic but nevertheless I strive to be treated as an equal.

I would say this is a healthier philosophy than Cynic's.

[Phool]

Originally Posted by nessa456

Most people with Aspergers and Autism are not gifted - that's a fact.

OK - Just something I read a while ago.

Originally Posted by nessa456

There are savants, who can be autistic:-

"Savant Syndrome is a rare condition in which people with developmental disorders have one or more areas of expertise, ability, or brilliance that are in contrast with the individual's overall limitations. Although not a recognized medical diagnosis, researcher Darold Treffert says the condition may be either genetic or acquired.

According to Treffert, about half of all people with savant syndrome have autistic disorder, while the other half have another developmental disability, mental retardation, brain injury or disease. He says, "... not all autistic people have savant syndrome and not all people with savant syndrome have autistic disorder". Other researchers state that autistic traits and savant skills may be linked, or have challenged some earlier conclusions about savant syndrome as "hearsay, uncorroborated by independent scrutiny".

Though it is even more rare than the savant condition itself, some savants have no apparent abnormalities other than their unique abilities. This does not mean that these abilities weren't triggered by a brain dysfunction of some sort but does temper the theory that all savants are disabled and that some sort of trade-off is required. (see Prodigious Savants below)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome

I did look a the savant stuff the other day but doesn't apply to me - I'm not particularly gifted at any one area in particular, just interested in lots of different things.

Originally Posted by nessa456

Why is it so important to be more special than others?

It's not, but I paid a shrink a lot of money for 2 years so I feel I owe it to her to at least do some research around the things she told me. Like most people I just want to understand myself a bit better and if people like Cynic have ideas on these things then I'm grateful for that advice. The truth is I don't feel all that comfortable in the world around me and I'd like to explore all the possible causes of this.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Phool

OK - Just something I read a while ago.



I did look a the savant stuff the other day but doesn't apply to me - I'm not particularly gifted at any one area in particular, just interested in lots of different things.



It's not, but I paid a shrink a lot of money for 2 years so I feel I owe it to her to at least do some research around the things she told me. Like most people I just want to understand myself a bit better and if people like Cynic have ideas on these things then I'm grateful for that advice. The truth is I don't feel all that comfortable in the world around me and I'd like to explore all the possible causes of this.

Excuse my cynicism but you pay a therapist a lot of money and after a whole year she tells you you're gifted - doesn't that strike you as a little suspicious?

The Psychiatrist I saw at The Priory Clinic in Edgbaston (paid for by occ health at work - their choice to send me there) picked up on the likelihood of my having Asperger's the first time I saw him.

[Phool]

Originally Posted by nessa456

Excuse my cynicism but you pay a therapist a lot of money and after a whole year she tells you you're gifted - doesn't that strike you as a little suspicious?

LoL - No, we were discussing a lot of other things first - when I first started seeing her - I was suicidal - and the majority of the first 6 months were spent trying to stop me doing that to myself. So the other stuff only came up towards the end when I was getting better and could think beyond ending it all. She saved my life.

[Mr. Nobody]

29,...
I'm in the clear then,...* phew *

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by nessa456

I have more integrity in my little finger than most NTs will ever have and I just would not want to be like that.

I'm enjoying this thread as an interested observer but every so often a statement or sentence pops up that seems to me to come from nowhere and be completely illogical, (Captain). The above screamed out as me as one of these statements.

Aside from the fact that this is an entirely untestable and frankly improbable assertion, what does it actually mean? I think you are trying to make a genuine point here, but I'm a bit baffled as to what it is you are trying to get across. Integrity in what respect? And how would you know? And how can you measure it?

I'm picking up on this because if it's not properly explained I would automatically say to myself, "well, that bizarre statement is probably just a symptom of the condition", and I don't think you'd want anyone to go away thinking that.

[Phool]

Originally Posted by nessa456

I have more integrity in my little finger than most NTs will ever have and I just would not want to be like that.

You know for someone who feels she is being judged or looked down upon - this is a pretty harsh judgement on others including a lot of people on this forum. If you don't like engaging with NT's then why do you? Why not stay away from them and apply the live and let live philosophy? NTs have a right to an existence as much as anyone else.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

I'm enjoying this thread as an interested observer but every so often a statement or sentence pops up that seems to me to come from nowhere and be completely illogical, (Captain). The above screamed out as me as one of these statements.

Aside from the fact that this is an entirely untestable and frankly improbable assertion, what does it actually mean? I think you are trying to make a genuine point here, but I'm a bit baffled as to what it is you are trying to get across. Integrity in what respect? And how would you know? And how can you measure it?

I'm picking up on this because if it's not properly explained I would automatically say to myself, "well, that bizarre statement is probably just a symptom of the condition", and I don't think you'd want anyone to go away thinking that.

I am going out now but give me time and I will reply to your post in great detail. I have no problem at all backing up my assertion.

Just to start with though, it is fairly well established that most people lie all the time. I am not most people - I practically never tell lies. This fact alone sets me aside from most of humanity.

I don't do people down ie stab people in the back to get an advantage over them or revenge on them, as the majority appear to do fairly frequently. I am just not intrinsically malicious as most appear to be. Then we have the people who while not intrinsically malicious will do nothing to challenge the malicious types and will invariably back them up if push comes to shove. All repellent behaviour to me but the norm for most.

I could go on, and will, at length if you like...

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Phool

LoL - No, we were discussing a lot of other things first - when I first started seeing her - I was suicidal - and the majority of the first 6 months were spent trying to stop me doing that to myself. So the other stuff only came up towards the end when I was getting better and could think beyond ending it all. She saved my life.

That's very good to hear.

A lot of therapists are definitely in the business to make a lot of money though.

I saw a psychologist for a while several years ago at about £80 per half hour session, paid for by my parents. I find they try and fit you into a textbook model of 'how an ideal person should be' though and this doesn't work for me - probably having a lot to do with the Aspergers.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Cynic

But how far has your integrity got you? You can bet all the NT bullies that we've encountered have lead more happy and successful lives than us.


Not all Aspies cock up on social situations.


I'm afraid life is an ongoing test.


There must be very, very few people that match that description.


Do people spot your "differences" within seconds? Usually they interact with me for a while longer than that before the cracks show.


Exactly. The individual has to adapt to suit the environment, not the other way round.


Would you like to be treated as "equal" to someone inferior? Of course not.


Sounds like you're segregating yourself from 99% of humanity, but if it works for you, then good luck.

You'd be right on the segregation idea - I see this as the only way to survive.
Interaction on a needs must basis and the rest of the time spent just with my partner - it suits us just fine.

I don't go around seeing others as 'inferior' at all - they are all just 'other people'. I don't see animals as inferior either. I'm strange like that...(that's sarcasm by the way not a statement of fact).

Most of humankind's problems have been caused by this superiority idea.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Phool

You know for someone who feels she is being judged or looked down upon - this is a pretty harsh judgement on others including a lot of people on this forum. If you don't like engaging with NT's then why do you? Why not stay away from them and apply the live and let live philosophy? NTs have a right to an existence as much as anyone else.

Many on here aren't NT though - hence I like it here.

I do post on Digital Spy Forum sometimes which I would call 'NT central' but I have fallen foul of some of the people on there a number of times - it's scary posting on there; like swimming with sharks!

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Would you like to be treated as "equal" to someone inferior? Of course not.

Do you tend to see the world in terms of pecking orders and hierarchies, Cynic, rather than differences and diversity? I'm not sure I'd consciously think of anyone as inferior to me, especially when it relates to medical conditions. Unlucky, perhaps, but not inferior. Do you think that having Asperger's and feeling that life is an "ongoing test" to appear normal has instilled in you a way of thinking of the world as them and us, normal versus not normal, inferior and superior? And do you think that this way of viewing people is either useful or beneficial? Because I have my reservations.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Jocasta

You could have described me here.

I do not lie (on the whole - although I am prone to the odd fib if it means I don't upset/insult someone ).

I am rarely/never malicious - even in an argument I will censor what I say cos it may make the situation worse. I may think malicious thoughts but no-one else knows about them.

I will always defend people who are unable to defend themselves against d***heads and will go out of my way to do so. Whether I do this in front of a crowd or on a one-to-one basis will depend on how I feel/the situation. I will not let unacceptable behaviour go past uncontended though.

And as you have pointed out - I am almost as far away from you/autism as I can be.

I wouldn't agree that most people are malicious liars. Some are - there can be no doubt but I think most people are either too self-absorbed, lazy or self-concious to challenge them. Most people have negative traits in small amounts in them. Its just the people who seem to make a profession of being nasty and vindictive are far more obvious.

I knew when I made the statement that there would be non-Asperger people who wouldn't fit the criteria, by the law of averages.

Perhaps a better way of phrasing it would be to say most people are more prepared to compromsie their integrity for the sake of gaining an advantage or getting along with others than I am? I think the average person has far more of an 'eye on the main chance' than me - they seem to me to be hard-wired to seek out what is advantageous to them and only put effort into things that will benefit them. This is no doubt an evolutionary thing. It seems as if, "What's in it for me?" is the question uppermost in the minds of the majority.

I also think I am probably on the receiving end of more maliciousness than yourself as there are many people who select their victim wisely ie someone they can see is too vulnerable to be able to retaliate. Hence you aren't getting a true picture of what people who might be fine with you are really like.

On the whole though I think you are correct though. There's more good than bad in most people it's just that the bad can have such a devastating effect.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

Do you tend to see the world in terms of pecking orders and hierarchies, Cynic, rather than differences and diversity? I'm not sure I'd consciously think of anyone as inferior to me, especially when it relates to medical conditions. Unlucky, perhaps, but not inferior. Do you think that having Asperger's and feeling that life is an "ongoing test" to appear normal has instilled in you a way of thinking of the world as them and us, normal versus not normal, inferior and superior? And do you think that this way of viewing people is either useful or beneficial? Because I have my reservations.

Society is undoubtedly based on hierarchies and pecking orders -it's the norm.

Society has to be told to value diversity and difference but often doesn't want to know.

I have an 'us and them' worldview like Cync but I think mine is less bleak ie I
react against the prejudice instead of just accepting it as my lot in life.

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by Cynic

When I was young, I used to see everyone as deserving of an equal chance, and was naive enough to believe that everyone had a role and some use to the "human family". However, after experiencing much abuse/bullying/harrassment/exclusion from many different people - including some respectable professionals, together with a greater awareness of the social and political system, I've come to the conclusion that everything in life (even basic right v wrong) comes down to pecking orders and hierarchies as anyone who has been ostracised will realise that too. Most people (especially Conservatives) reject diversity, and strive for conformity and differences of all kinds come under attack - our overlords in the media make a career out of it and school playground culture enforces it at an early age.

You were doing quite well until you dragged your political prejudices into it. You explain how your personal experiences shaped the way you view people, but I wonder if you haven't taken a perspective derived from abuse/harrassment/bullying/exclusion/ostrasism in early life and applied it indiscriminately to everyone ever since. This could account for your view of yourself and the world as different from most other people's.

The bulk of human behaviour is driven by subconscious instincts, and whether we like to admit it or not, human beings are just another form of animal.

The point remains however that I'm not aware, consciously or subconsciously, of ever thinking in terms of people being inferior because of a physical or mental condition. I don't think most people do. Most people just think of people with autism or Asperger's as different, that's all.

It has gone some way to help prevent predators from taking advantage. I'll be the first to admit I have a pessimistic view of humans, though whoever said that people are fundamentally "good" is talking through their hat. If you have even a basic grasp of psychology, you'll find that human beings are fundamentally selfish. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is subjective, and once again largely dependant on your social standing. The same with morality - a religious term by origin to keep us lower castes in line while the dominant forces shaft the rest of the tribe. Make of that what you will.

If you see others as predators then you must think of yourself as prey. This would seem to stem from the childhood experiences you mentioned earlier.

Selfishness is only a part of the picture. Humans are social animals. Language, communication, cooperation, teamwork, altruism, sacrifice, sharing and all the other non-selfish aspects of humanity are equally as important in terms of our success as a species and all have an evolutionary reason, as does morality. The religious urge is actually a by-product of human psychology, which is why it is found universally all over the world in every human population, rather than being a tool of subjugation.

What I'm trying to get at, I suppose, is that the framework you've developed and imposed on your view of the world as a way of coping might actually be limiting and unhelpful now. It's just my opinion, but it might be time for a paradigm shift.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Its amazing that you and your partner found each other, as plenty of people on this board have never found anyone and the evidence is clear that those of us who don't fit a particular mould will probably always be alone.

Not at all. I've spent most of my adult life with a partner. I don't think I've even gone a whole year without being in a relationship. It means I've learnt from my mistakes and know how to identify and value a person who is very suited to me.

I've had a well-defined strategy in other words. I find most people don't ahve a strategy - they go into the relationships thing with soem hazy romantic idea that the perfect match for them is out there. I'd say this isn't practical. You need to look for the best fit without too much compromise.

It's ironic because it implies that if I'd stuck with the socialising stuff perhaps I would have got better at it but I found it too demoralising and hard-going. My experiences with relationships on the other hand have been generally more positive than negative hence they have encouraged me to keep trying. A relationship gives me one to one exclusive attention which is what I need to feel ok about myself. I therefore think I have little choice but to be in a relationship to get this need met as I am not going to get it from group socialising or from friendship as that is a far less reliable or available source.

I think you are incorrect about people who don't fit a particular mould being likely to always be alone - the more individual a person is, the more they usually know themselves so it's far easier to spot a like-minded person in my opinion. Most people try to cover up their individuality/differences in order to fit in so they often don't find out they are totally incompatible with another person until after they're married!