Can epigenetics explain your SA and avoidance?

[Orwell20]

I have been reading a fascinating article on epigenetics. This is the study of how cells read genes. Until very recently, it was believed that what happened to your parents during their lifetime could not be passed on. So, whether they had a tranquil childhood filled with love, or a nightmare childhood filled with abuse, made no difference to the genes they passed on to you. Scientists now believe that is wrong. In fact, if your parents experienced a lot of trauma and stress, that could have switched certain genes on, or off, which they then passed on to you. So trauma can be passed on! And if it is, the child may be more prone to anxiety, avoidance, paranoia, etc and less able to cope with stress.

[limey123]

Not heard this before, interesting...

[firemonkey]

I remember seeing this in my local library quite a few years ago.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancestor-Sy.../dp/0415191874

[Dougella]

I have heard that this is found to be true of Holocaust survivors and their descendants.

[Moksha]

God, I wish I had a better grasp of this stuff. I must read Professor Plomin's new book on genetics. So far as I understand it, epigenetics is cutting edge. We ("we"!!...as if I've got anything to do with it) used to think that you inherited (is it 20,000?) genes, and that was that. But now it's thought that those genes can be switched on or off throughout your life, depending on what you eat, how much stress you suffer, even what you think. And those changes can somehow be handed on to your kids?

In my case that would make sense. My father, I believe, had a personality disorder. And both my sister and I have inherited it. He was avoidant, paranoid, suspicious, pessimistic, aggressive and dependent - psychiatrists call it a "cluster c personality disorder." I suspect it originated in his childhood. I doubt he was ever hugged or kissed or made to feel welcome in the world. His parents didn't want him, and I'm sure he sensed that. Children who are neglected in that way, who are rarely hugged or touched, can be severely damaged. I've even read that they are more likely to develop cancer in middle-age. God knows what his miserable, whinging, self-pitying old bag of a mother did to him. Maybe he was affected at a genetic level. But then why do people who go through similar childhoods emerge unscathed?

[Dougella]

^I guess the question is what happened to his mother in her life to make her behave like that and what happened in her parents lives too.

[Mr. Nobody]

It's certainly true that trauma experienced during pregnancy can influence foetal development quite markedly.

I guess the bigger question is, can we be free of our psychological and genetic inheritances or are we simply all victims of circumstance?

It's easy to see the chain of,..violence, for instance, one person gets angry at another, that other reacts to that violence, and so on, like a poisonous pass the parcel,
We all seem to be held by influence and circumstance,
But can we step out of the psychological chain of cause and effect? Or can we observe our inherited patterns of behaviour, And so, be free of them?
Otherwise, we're almost acting like pre-programmed machines.

[BritishPeace]

Epigenetics explains everything humans are. I learn about it in psychology.

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by BritishPeace

Epigenetics explains everything humans are. I learn about it in psychology.

If this were twitter I'd assume you were a parody account.

[Consolida]

Very interesting Jimmy77.

I've not heard of epigenetics before but if there's any truth in it all then I was doomed from the very start. My birth mother was an absolute monster by all accounts and if my adoptive mother loves me, thanks to her unhappy upbringing, she finds it impossible to show.

[Percy]

Originally Posted by biscuits

I was reading about this the other day. I thought it skipped a generation?

Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

Isn't it intelligence that's supposed to skip a generation?

[Marco]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

I guess the bigger question is, can we be free of our psychological and genetic inheritances or are we simply all victims of circumstance?

It's easy to see the chain of,..violence, for instance, one person gets angry at another, that other reacts to that violence, and so on, like a poisonous pass the parcel,
We all seem to be held by influence and circumstance,
But can we step out of the psychological chain of cause and effect? Or can we observe our inherited patterns of behaviour, And so, be free of them?
Otherwise, we're almost acting like pre-programmed machines.

Indeed, whether nature or nurture we seem to have little control. In fact I think we have far less free will than we might like to think. The way I see it is that we're like front seat passengers with the car being our body and the driver our mind. We have virtually no control over the moment to moment decisions we think we make, but we can influence to some extent longer term the direction of how we develop. I'm not an outright determinist, but I’m becoming a dualist in that I’m starting to think that there is something separate from the organic body – an essence or soul if you like.

[Marco]

^Not sure about that, mutedsoul. Even if we could manipulate our genes any which way, I think we'd still be passengers in our bodies controlled by genetic forces (even if
manipulated in some way) and our environment (internal or external).

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Marco

Indeed, whether nature or nurture we seem to have little control. In fact I think we have far less free will than we might like to think. The way I see it is that we're like front seat passengers with the car being our body and the driver our mind. We have virtually no control over the moment to moment decisions we think we make, but we can influence to some extent longer term the direction of how we develop. I'm not an outright determinist, but I***8217;m becoming a dualist in that I***8217;m starting to think that there is something separate from the organic body ***8211; an essence or soul if you like.

An American professor of genetics (I believe his name is Richard Plomin) recently published a book on this. I keep meaning to order it on Amazon (arrgghh, no, buy it from a shop!! There won't be any ****ing bookshops left if you keep ordering everything online!!). You can still hear him interviewed on Radio 4's Start the Week.

Plomin has spent his entire career studying the links between DNA and the human body/mind. His conclusion is that genes have the final say. He doesn't deny the effects of environment (poverty, bullying, abusive parents, lack of education, etc), but argues that genes always overwhelm those effects. In other words, if you are, by nature, extrovert, upbeat and full of energy, you will survive a pretty awful childhood. Once you get away, find a job and marry, your cheery, upbeat genes will kick in and overwhelm any damage done to you.

I flicked through his book in Waterstones and, in the bits I read, he claims that introversion and 'neuroticism' are around 40% inherited. By neuroticism, I believe he means how prone you are to anxiety and depression and how well you cope with stress.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by mutedsoul

^Ok, I'm listening to the clip. It gonna be hard for me to believe that genes are ultimately responsible for SA, well they are obviously. However with how certain things such as allergies and obesity has increased rapidly over the last century I still think there is more at play.

I think about this constantly. Is my avoidance, paranoia, shame, fear of intimacy, social anxiety, and so on (and on) inherited? In other words, was it there from the start, lurking in the genes? Or is it a result of childhood and parenting? If you made me choose, I'd come down on the side of nature over nurture. I really don't know how anyone can be a blank slater. The difference between siblings, for example, is just too much. Often, it is clear that one child has taken after a parent, a grandmother or even an aunt. Time and again I've been amazed by these differences. Take my cousin's little girls. The eldest is just like her father: quiet, mellow, unexcitable, nothing to say. But her sister is the polar opposite - a little ball of fury, energy and emotion. Parents can even sense these differences when they are babies.

I doubt we inherit SA itself (well, maybe we do). According to Plomin, however, you do inherit an introverted or extroverted nature, and you also inherit 'neuroticism'. I'm not quite sure what he means by that. I think it's partly to do with sensitivity. If you are highly sensitive, you will probably find it hard to cope with stress. And you will go under when confronted by trauma. Also, you will be more likely to experience anxiety and depression.

I guess we are at the very start of this revolution. Who knows where it will end. Maybe one day we'll able to link virtually every trait to sets of genes, including social anxiety.

[BritishPeace]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

If this were twitter I'd assume you were a parody account.

No comment

[Laurel]

Well I had a family member who was abused. So it could ring true for me, like aggravated distress rates etc, but I don't really believe it. More - I was bullied a bit at school and that probably played its part more.