Death

[BritishPeace]

Can anyone answer me this question. If everyone dies, then why do parents have children that they know are going to die too?

[Rocket Spud]

Cos it's tradition to keep this shitshow ongoing in perpetuity.

[Schmosby]

We had a discussion about this here.

[Marco]

The underlying driver is the biological urge to pass on our genes. It's up to each of us to add meaning to this - whether it's true or not.

[Mo34]

Deaths just a natural part of living.

[Rocket Spud]

This seems to be the conversation human consciousness has had with itself since the time we ..... discovered fire, i don't know, a long time ago.

For better context (and pure comedy gold (why haven't you seen this if you haven't?????)) here's more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RFniZU4Eo

[Consolida]

Originally Posted by Change

Because before we die...we live.

Yes, this

[Marco]

^We live before we die, which is why people want to have children? Eh? Oh, I suppose what might be meant here is that death after life is the natural order of events and shouldn't be a reason for not wanting to have children.

[Marco]

^I think having children is a way in which people feel they can defy death by surviving through their children. So I doubt fear of death would lead to cessation of reproduction - on the contrary in fact.

[Moksha]

Because they are selfish. They want their life to have a purpose, and they want someone to love and support them when they are old. They also want a family - a little nest where they feel safe and loved. No one has children for selfless reasons. Yeah, ok, for some people life can be good. But let's be honest, it's mostly fear, stress, boredom, heartache and suffering.

It amazes me the way new parents seem to think they've achieved something. Sorry, but you haven't "created a precious little soul." You've just created more suffering. I never look at a baby or toddler without thinking "you poor little sod, you've got no idea of what lies ahead of you." If they are lucky they'll get seven or eight decades, mostly shit. Some don't even get that. And then at the end...what? Complete and utter horror. Not only will they die, their death will probably involve months of torture, both physical and emotional. And then, after cancer or alzheimers has done its thing, their body will have to be incinerated, or buried deep under the ground, before it starts to rot. No one would have children unless they went into denial about all this.

[limey123]

Originally Posted by Indigo_

I think it's better to try and make the best out of what you have and live the life that you have now.

You only really have one alternative, anyway.

Moksha's outlook reminds me a bit of a Philip Larkin poem:

Always too eager for the future, we
Pick up bad habits of expectancy.
Something is always approaching; every day
Till then we say,

Watching from a bluff the tiny, clear
Sparkling armada of promises draw near.
How slow they are! And how much time they waste,
Refusing to make haste!

Yet still they leave us holding wretched stalks
Of disappointment, for, though nothing balks
Each big approach, leaning with brasswork prinked,
Each rope distinct,

Flagged, and the figurehead with golden tits
Arching our way, it never anchors; it's
No sooner present than it turns to past.
Right to the last

We think each one will heave to and unload
All good into our lives, all we are owed
For waiting so devoutly and so long.
But we are wrong:

Only one ship is seeking us, a black-
Sailed unfamiliar, towing at her back
A huge and birdless silence. In her wake
No waters breed or break.

[Dougella]

^^ You happy soul Moksha

I do actually understand why parents feel a sense of achievement, they have created a whole new human being, that's amazing! Life is full of ups and downs, I think that's something we have to accept, no-one has a life without difficulties in it. Some are much more difficult than others but that doesn't mean that they're not worthwhile or that things can't get infinitely better for that person. I think that one of the things we have to get better at, as a society, is helping eachother so that people aren't allowed to suffer and certainly not alone.

[limey123]

^ Good post

[Toxic]

Coz its something to do?

Seems as good an answer as any.

If we didn't do stuff because its pointless as were going to die I suppose we would all be just sat around twiddling our thumbs.

I personally can think of a million things I'd rather do than have a child for a time sink but if thats what people want to do with their lives why let something that we can't control stop you!

Oh and living seems a much better use of 80 years than not living I guess.

[AireleeBray]

i read today:
the life of the dead is placed in the memory of the living.

i think its about wanting a family, you get to make the people you (hopefully) spend your life with. You gain these people that you feel true love for.
I think life is one of the most amazing things, along with family bonds & love. if seen with the right outlook & frame of mind.
yes theres alot of evil in the world but alot of hope & good.

[BritishPeace]

Considering both my parents died within six months I think what is the post of it al!

[BritishPeace]

I have a a new nephew I feel.sorry for him he should never have been born at all

[Consolida]

^ Congratulations on the birth of your nephew BP He may very well have a largely happy and fulfilling life
Of course, everyone suffers some heartache and pain but some people, when they do finally reach the end of their lives, are thankful that they lived and were able to spend some happy times with loved ones a long the way.

Originally Posted by Dougella

^^ You happy soul Moksha

I do actually understand why parents feel a sense of achievement, they have created a whole new human being, that's amazing! Life is full of ups and downs, I think that's something we have to accept, no-one has a life without difficulties in it. Some are much more difficult than others but that doesn't mean that they're not worthwhile or that things can't get infinitely better for that person. I think that one of the things we have to get better at, as a society, is helping eachother so that people aren't allowed to suffer and certainly not alone.

Exactly right

[AireleeBray]

life can feel unbearable, i have dark times & of course i worry about my childrens future, i think its my job to teach them to be kind & caring people & show them how worthwhile life is. & help them through when they feel it isnt.

im sorry some of you have had a life thats made you feel this way.
The only thing promised in life is death. Why not make whatever life we have left as good as we can?
if everyone did that the world wouldnt be so bad.

[Copernicium]

I suspect the comments in this thread giving a negative viewpoint on the whole idea of having children or creating new life are influenced more by depression and other related issues rather than a genuine philosophical grievance about the pointlessness of existence.

In fact I would argue that if one is looking for genuine meaning in a random, chaotic, absurd universe, it is to be found most compellingly in the act of creating new life.

[Rocket Spud]

You suspect? There's massive bias with some posters, across all sorts of subjects. It's unsurprising and totally expected.

[limey123]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

In fact I would argue that if one is looking for genuine meaning in a random, chaotic, absurd universe, it is to be found most compellingly in the act of creating new life.

Yup, planning and creation in the face of chaos (even if you're subjecting that new life to the same chaos).