Experience of universal credit

[Indigo_]

I must say Jinny, I'm surprised at how you've reacted to this.

You work in schools and should know what bullying constitutes, and this isn't bullying.

It's all very well trying to play devil's advocate but surely you must see why a number of people are shocked and angry at Schmosby's views?

[firemonkey]

Originally Posted by jinny

yes, I get that was a daft example

but benefits do come from taxes and the taxes are taken out of a monthly pay packet Dougella.
I'm sure lots of people who get benefits have paid in to the system, and lots haven't.

Yes. I'm one of those who's not paid into the system because I was diagnosed with a severe mental illness at 18,after having first seen a pdoc a few months before I was 17.

There are no doubt others like me people who have never worked due to illness.


Not all people,contrary to pig ignorant right wing propaganda, who have not paid into the system are scroungers . Some have mental and physical conditions that mean work was never an option. Others might have worked if they'd ever got the help they needed from mental health services.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by jinny

I do see it in school though, where one kid might do something wrong and half the class join in having a go. It's overwhelming.
So that's how I read it, it seemed overwhelming to me. But then as everyone is an adult it shouldn't apply. It still seems overwhelming, I have disagreed with people before and cited things from previous posts they have made to try and get my point accross, and the same has been done to me... People have quoted past posts I have made to try and win an argument. No one ever called me disgusting because of that.
It seemed quite a harsh response.

We all are struggling here and that means we don't always get things right.
I am really surprised that there was a much bigger response to Shmosby's views than Moksha's views that its OK for a 36 year old man to groom a 14 year old girl and arrange to meet her, that he's probably just 'watched too much porn'

We all have different things that gets our back up.
Obviously Shmosby's post got people's back up, it was probably unkind, but having post after post of sniggery jokes at someone else's expense because they offended you is unkind too.

We have to make jokes because quite honestly if we took those kinds of views seriously it would put, atleast me, back into severe depression. A lot of people feel very guilty and ashamed and judged for being on benefits and we shouldn't have to, we couldn't do anything else. I think sometimes when people discuss these things they forget that for some of us it's not hypothetical it's our real lives.

[neilm]

Originally Posted by Purplesnarf

Lesson of the day, don't put anybody on the spot about how they spend their money and you won't be at risk of reading jokes about sausage rolls and crisps.

Quite.

And in any event the jokes about sausage rolls/crisps/desserts etc were surely pretty restrained in their nature?

Well I thought they were anyway

[Indigo_]

Originally Posted by jinny

I do see it in school though, where one kid might do something wrong and half the class join in having a go. It's overwhelming.
So that's how I read it, it seemed overwhelming to me. But then as everyone is an adult it shouldn't apply. It still seems overwhelming, I have disagreed with people before and cited things from previous posts they have made to try and get my point accross, and the same has been done to me... People have quoted past posts I have made to try and win an argument. No one ever called me disgusting because of that.
It seemed quite a harsh response.

What you are using as an example there isn't bullying. One single incident where others 'have a go' is not bullying. Bullying is continuous, and it is sustained over a period of time.

I labelled Schmosby's behaviour as disgusting, not him personally.

As Dougella has said, the negative response here is due to a number of things. Firstly this is a mental health forum. And in being a mental health forum there will be many here who are claiming benefits or have needed to claim benefits in the past. To be told by someone that they should not be buying crisps, eating takeaways, owning laptops, etc, because they are receiving benefits, is beyond a joke, don't you think?

It wouldn't be so bad if Schmosby has realised he'd made a mistake, or that his comments were unkind, but we both know he genuinely believes what he is saying.

[Dougella]

^ I think an explanation from him, if he didn't mean the things he said in the way they've been interpreted by some of us, would have gone a long way to sort out the discussion.

[Indigo_]

^ Oh absolutely, but I get the impression he meant exactly what he said.

[michelle06]

I do wonder if Schmosby would actually have the guts to make such comments in person to someone who is on benefits and struggling. People get very brave when they can hide behind their computer screen.

I also find it kind of funny that Jinny is up in arms about supposed bullying when she made some horrible comments to people on another thread.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by _Tink_

^ Oh absolutely, but I get the impression he meant exactly what he said.

It's amazing sometimes the views that people can have about what other people should do in certain situations that they're not ever going to have to deal with themselves.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by michelle06

I do wonder if Schmosby would actually have the guts to make such comments in person to someone who is on benefits and struggling. People get very brave when they can hide behind their computer screen.

I also find it kind of funny that Jinny is up in arms about supposed bullying when she made some horrible comments to people on another thread.

It's like when people are talking about a certain group, but then they realise you're part of that group and they go "oh, but not you, you claim benefits but you're different...". No, we're pretty much all the same.

[sillypenguin]

Originally Posted by sillypenguin

Anyone receiving it at the moment or experienced any issues trying to apply for it?

OK considering this question was part of my first post.... How the hell did it become about crisps

Also pigs in blanket are amazing...but I'm not allowed benefits so sue me

[sillypenguin]

Also my brother has never worked and been on benefits all his adult life. He still lives with my parents, he has more money than anyone I know. But you know what, he might as well enjoy it as soon as the universal roll out happens, he is going to be screwed over just like everyone else. Universal credit is going to lead to more homeless people, worse mental health issues, probably more suicide as well.... So you know what... Just let people enjoy eating there goddamn Greggs sausage rolls which you can buy in multi pack for a quid in Iceland ffs!!!!!

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by BritishPeace

Yes I gave up smoking for stopover and it’s stuck! If I still did I would really be in the shit. I lost my job on 22nd September so it coincided, luckily I have confidence that I’ll get a job soon.

Sorry I missed this.

That's fantastic, good on you.

Yes I think you'll find something soon, you've got the right attitude.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by sillypenguin

Also my brother has never worked and been on benefits all his adult life. He still lives with my parents, he has more money than anyone I know. But you know what, he might as well enjoy it as soon as the universal roll out happens, he is going to be screwed over just like everyone else. Universal credit is going to lead to more homeless people, worse mental health issues, probably more suicide as well.... So you know what... Just let people enjoy eating there goddamn Greggs sausage rolls which you can buy in multi pack for a quid in Iceland ffs!!!!!

The roll out of universal credit is proving to be terrible for a lot of people and the silly thing is it costs the government more money in the long run when people become homeless etc.

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by _Tink_

To be told by someone that they should not be buying crisps, eating takeaways, owning laptops, etc, because they are receiving benefits, is beyond a joke, don't you think?

Quote where I said this. As with almost everyone in this thread, you are just making up your own reality and then feeling outraged about it.

The behaviour of you guys here has been at least this level of face palm, which is why I've not been responding much.

[Dougella]

^ Then why don't you correct the misinterpretations?

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ I think an explanation from him, if he didn't mean the things he said in the way they've been interpreted by some of us, would have gone a long way to sort out the discussion.

I did explain on the 7th, not that it needed explaining.

Originally Posted by Schmosby

If I posted in the what are you eating thread periodically about eating kebabs, ice cream and doughnuts and in the what are doing thread that I spend all my time in bed, then at some point down the line made a post complaining I'm gaining weight, wouldn't you point the obvious out since I'm clearly not seeing it?

I'll also include a little here from a PM regarding this..

Originally Posted by Schmosby

If someone was having trouble making a phone call due to SA and I remembered lots of previous posts by them being worried about making phone calls, but then the phone calls turning out to be ok, I would say to them, "you've made 5 phone calls in the last month and they all turned out ok" to help reassure them that it's going to be ok. What I said in the thread regarding Mo was exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Someone

...

Originally Posted by Schmosby

Kissing butt is all well and good, it's supportive in a solidarity way, but is also basically useless.

Reminding the person having trouble making a phone call that they have done it successfully 5 times recently gives them a different perspective and hopefully makes them feel more confident at going ahead with it. Pointing out to Mo that she is currently overpaid gives her a different perspective and helps her feel that actually it's not going to be so bad.

[Dougella]

^ I don't think that particular section did much to help. Also you could have asked before posting our PMs, they're supposed to be private conversations lol.

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by Kooky Monster

Please tell us, exactly what you think benefit claimants NEED to eat?

This was part of the ensuing argument, not any part of what I was originally saying.

Crisps have no real value, it's like like asking what should you smoke other than B&H cigarettes? Money shouldn't be taken without permission from one group to give to another group to then waste. If the money is going to be wasted, let the person that worked for it waste it.

It's like if I was giving money to a cat sanctuary and they were using that money to take the a few cats on holiday and sending them for pampering days and feeding them luxury cat food. That's not what I want to see my money spent on, I want to see it giving as many cats as possible a good basic level of life.

The reason I mentioned these things in the first place was not because I was outraged about them, but just because they are indicators excess funds. If you were short of cash, you would do what I used to do which is buy very cheap food in bulk, not eat takeaways. I was just trying to help her see that she has extra money, so a reduction wouldn't be as bad as she envisioned.

[Schmosby]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ I don't think that particular section did much to help. Also you could have asked before posting our PMs, they're supposed to be private conversations lol.

Sorry, I didn't think you'd mind that line and it wouldn't have made sense without it.

I think it helps, as it shows I was clearly being supportive (in a non butt kissy way). Nobody would have seen the thing regarding the phone call as negative and what I said to Mo was the same sentiment.

[slrrrrp]

This thread makes me want to go and spend my ESA on crisps, doughnuts, and takeaways.

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Dan
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[Mo34]

I'm sorry Schmosby you were not being supportive , let's not pretend otherwise. You've just got a b in your bonnet about ppl who claim benefits. Also crisps which can be as cheap as 12p are not an indicator of being overpaid. People who are on esa are ill, they can eat whatever they choose, they've done nothing wrong but be ill or disabled, that's punishment enough I would have thought.

You've done this to me before in another thread regarding work, with the same modus operandi. You backtracked then too claiming what you said was 'a compliment'. BS.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

Sorry, I didn't think you'd mind that line and it wouldn't have made sense without it.

I think it helps, as it shows I was clearly being supportive (in a non butt kissy way). Nobody would have seen the thing regarding the phone call as negative and what I said to Mo was the same sentiment.

I get the feeling that what you might have been trying to say was if someone could no longer afford to pay their rent because of the benefit changes that would be a disaster, but if someone could no longer afford to eat certain foods because of benefits changes that wouldn't be disastrous? Is that close?

[far north]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

This was part of the ensuing argument, not any part of what I was originally saying.

Crisps have no real value, it's like like asking what should you smoke other than B&H cigarettes? Money shouldn't be taken without permission from one group to give to another group to then waste. If the money is going to be wasted, let the person that worked for it waste it.

It's like if I was giving money to a cat sanctuary and they were using that money to take the a few cats on holiday and sending them for pampering days and feeding them luxury cat food. That's not what I want to see my money spent on, I want to see it giving as many cats as possible a good basic level of life.

The reason I mentioned these things in the first place was not because I was outraged about them, but just because they are indicators excess funds. If you were short of cash, you would do what I used to do which is buy very cheap food in bulk, not eat takeaways. I was just trying to help her see that she has extra money, so a reduction wouldn't be as bad as she envisioned.

How is providing a (low) income via Social Security to someone who cannot work due to illness "wasting" Taxpayers money, Schmosby?

Youve made it CRYSTAL clear, that you have a personal problem with your "HARD WORKING" tax payments being used in this way, but how do you classify it as being "wasted" cash?

Oh, and I dont think its good form to publish folks PMs (without their permission) on a Public Discussion board. Sorry, but thats a bit of a poor show really

[far north]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

This was part of the ensuing argument, not any part of what I was originally saying.

Crisps have no real value, it's like like asking what should you smoke other than B&H cigarettes? Money shouldn't be taken without permission from one group to give to another group to then waste. If the money is going to be wasted, let the person that worked for it waste it.

It's like if I was giving money to a cat sanctuary and they were using that money to take the a few cats on holiday and sending them for pampering days and feeding them luxury cat food. That's not what I want to see my money spent on, I want to see it giving as many cats as possible a good basic level of life.

The reason I mentioned these things in the first place was not because I was outraged about them, but just because they are indicators excess funds. If you were short of cash, you would do what I used to do which is buy very cheap food in bulk, not eat takeaways. I was just trying to help her see that she has extra money, so a reduction wouldn't be as bad as she envisioned.

Your "cat sanctuary" comments confuses me too. Arnt you getting Charitable donations and Tax deductions rather mixed up?

You do realize the difference I assume?

[michelle06]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

Money shouldn't be taken without permission from one group to give to another group to then waste. If the money is going to be wasted, let the person that worked for it waste it.

Does this mean you're against the NHS, then? Everyone who earns contributes to fund health provision, and treatment is sometimes required because of lifestyle choices (eg. heart attacks brought on by poor diet). Who decides who is 'worthy' of treatment?

[Dougella]

^ That is the problem with people having an opinion on what benefits should and should not be spent on. People's idea of what constitutes a waste can be vastly different.

[Mo34]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

The reason I mentioned these things in the first place was not because I was outraged about them, but just because they are indicators excess funds. If you were short of cash, you would do what I used to do which is buy very cheap food in bulk, not eat takeaways. I was just trying to help her see that she has extra money, so a reduction wouldn't be as bad as she envisioned.

And will you please stop saying or implying that I eat loads of takeaways. I don't and have stated so more than once.

[Indigo_]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

As with almost everyone in this thread, you are just making up your own reality and then feeling outraged about it.

The behaviour of you guys here has been at least this level of face palm, which is why I've not been responding much.

I think your head will explode if it gets much bigger.

[Dougella]

^^^^ Don't forget that the money you will be entitled to for rent is also capped so unless you can find somewhere to live that is well below the market rate (because the cap is below market rates in most places) you will have to make up the difference out of the rest of your benefit payment.