Do you ever worry that you'll regret not having kids?

[Chess&Junkfood]

Are you ok, No Longer Human? Im sorry, I've only just seen that drive-by quip. Otherwise, I would have come over sooner! Anyway, let me check you over? Yeah, you're fine! A quip like that couldn't knock you down. But you know what, let me get in my clown car and I'll quip away as well!

*Gets in clown car*
*Puts "Send in The Clowns" Sung by Lisa Hannigan - on the cd player*
*Zooms away*

Hi Raks1981, I just wanted to say that I hope you're having a good day. Anyway, take care.

*Gets back in clown car*

*Puts on "Run to you" sung by Whitney Houston - on the cd player*

*Zooms away*

I'm sorry, No Longer Human. You know how it is. You drive there in a clown car, roll down the window, and politeness kicks in. I'm also feeling slightly pickled from drinking bells whisky as well. But for what it's worth, I think you're great.

Anyway, I think I need to sleep this off!

[Indigo_]

I think your outlook on this topic largely depends on your state of mind/mental health. If you have severe depression and are deeply unhappy with your life then it stands to reason that you may not think it morally acceptable to bring children into the horrendous existence you feel you have, should they suffer the same.

But if you're a pretty happy person, largely happy with how your life has turned out so far, and feel there are many positives/benefits to being alive, then your view on having children and whether it's okay to bring them into the world is going to very different isn't it?

Life is not all doom and gloom for all and we are not all destined to die a horrible painful death with many miseries along the way.

[wlien]

maybe when I'm retired I'll regret not having a son or daughter but won't regret not having children

[Indigo_]

^ Ha ha, thank you It's a topic I'm quite passionate about. I fully understand why people choose not to have children and respect that but there will always be many people who do want children and that should be respected too. People shouldn't be made to feel bad for wanting to bring children into the world and vice versa.

[twosocks]

I wouldn't regret not having children for my own sake. I don't mind ending up in an old peoples home as long as nothing untoward is happening. Playing dominoes or vr god knows what by the time i'm that ancient. 85% of the time i'm confident i'd be a brilliant parent.. but it's the 15% of the time that my mental health could compromise my abilities in some way, particularly my anxiety.
I'm not sure i could handle the 24/7 responsibility, it's quite frankly a terrifying prospect of having a constant dependant. I'd also fear they would pick up on my anxiety and it could rub off on them in some way. Not sure i would forgive myself for that. I know things have affected me in that way, i'm not honestly sure why my parents had children. I can only imagine it was because "it's what people did" or what everyone else they knew were doing around them, conforming to societal expectations and peer pressure. They're not very maternal/paternal people. I feel bad for them that they never ended up pursuing what they actually wanted in life for themselves as individuals but thats on them really, they could have if they had prioritised it more.
I find christmas a little hard and when you see little baby shoes or something cute like that. But i'm not going to have a child just because it gets me in the feels over a holiday. I'd rather donate toys to somewhere that would want them to lift my spirits around that time.

[Utopia]

Yeah, I've read research that it actually makes people less happy, but I do think I would be a decent parent once they are old enough to listen to my advice, and if they are like me they would rebel on some issues anyway if they felt strongly enough about it. It would also be nice to have a close genetic relative and to share life with new people and to basically feel like I fit in and belong in that way, but the research points towards them harming mental health, surprisingly - or not . I wouldn't mind if I had a partner that wanted them enough. It is a big responsibility and you kind of need to take on all their problems also, and I would natrually want to. People say you go more right wing as you age, but in terms of empathy I am gemuinely caring more about others now, I wonder if that's a genetic thing because normally I would have kids at this age. On balance, I would rather not have children in the relatively near future.

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ Lots of kids don't look after their parents in old age, they move abroad or they don't have a good relationship or they just don't want to do it! It's not worth having kids just for that. We need a better system of care and support for people in old age.

It's certainly true that some kids move abroad or become estranged from their parents (or even die), but the majority don't. If you love your kids, they'll probably be there for you when you're old. I don't know any good people who've abandoned their parents in their final years. If you don't have kids, you must face old age, illness and death alone. That's the brutal truth.

You just can't win. Having kids is incredibly difficult and stressful (apparently, almost every parent says it was much harder than they expected), but not having them means a lonely old age.

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by Utopia

Yeah, I've read research that it actually makes people less happy

I have read this too. I'm not sure though - it seems to be a grey area. There was a British professor (can't think of his name) who published a book on happiness a year or two back. I remember listening to an interview on Radio 4. He seemed very clear about most things, like work, relationships, money, etc, and the effect they have, but when it came to children he was more vague. He said it both increases and decreases happiness at the same time.

One of the big problems, he said, is the worry. You love them so much that you literally worry about them every day until you die. I am in my 40s now, so had I had a daughter in my early 20s she'd now be leaving for university, or to go backpacking around Thailand, or something. I just cannot imagine the terror I would be feeling, knowing that she's out in the world and I can no longer protect her. People would just spout the usual cliches ("got to let them go," "it's her life," "they have to make their own mistakes" etc), which wouldn't help at all.

I have read that most parents, when polled anonymously, said they found it much harder than they expected. A surprising number also said they wouldn't do it again. For sure it puts massive pressure on your marriage. In fact, the general view seems to be that most marriages don't survive. Of course, the parents often stay together, but that's not the same. All the romance and fun and sex usually go, which is hardly surprising when the house smells of excrement and disinfectant and you're both exhausted.

Actually, now I think of it, I remember reading something else on this subject. The author said it's a dark secret/taboo, but millions of women (and perhaps men) secretly regret having had kids, they just don't admit it, even to themselves. I also remember the actress Diane Morgan (Philomena Clunk) saying that several of her friends had told her having kids was/is a nightmare and not to make their mistake.

[Dougella]

^ What about siblings and nephews and nieces or even neighbours though? It's not just kids that look after elderly parents.

Personally I just don't feel it's a big enough worry to get too caught up in thinking about. And I agree everyone seems to say having a kids is much harder than they thought it would be.

[Dougella]

^^ There's a very eye opening Facebook group I follow where they post people's stories anonymously about regretting having children, there are lots of them! But often it seems that the person was somehow persuaded into having kids when they weren't sure, or were left to care for the child alone which is really hard if you don't have support.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^^ There's a very eye opening Facebook group I follow where they post people's stories anonymously about regretting having children, there are lots of them! But often it seems that the person was somehow persuaded into having kids when they weren't sure, or were left to care for the child alone which is really hard if you don't have support.

Yes, it’s one of those taboo subjects. And I suspect it’s far, far more common than we realise. Children are totally selfish, with zero understanding or sympathy for an adult’s problems or hopes (not that they can be expected to understand). When my sister was thinking of having kids, the older women at work said “well, enjoy your marriage now, because kids will wreck it.” Noise, stress, bad smells, lack of sleep, no time to yourself and utter exhaustion, that seems to be the reality of life for the first year or two.

People seem to think all you’ve got to do is get through those first five years and it’s plane sailing. But that’s not true. John Cleese said he felt that kids prevented you being happy because you just worry all the time. You want them to be safe and happy, but SO much can go wrong. This is something people don’t consider. And sh*t can happen at any age. You could be 85 and have your heart broken when your 50 year old daughter dies of breast cancer, or drinks herself to death, or kills herself when her husband cheats on her, and so on. Your 18-year-old son could become an addict, or have a breakdown, etc. If you have three or four kids, your chance of getting though life without being hurt by one of them is very small. You might hate their partner, for example, or maybe their partner hates you (both common). Or maybe they emigrate to Australia or Canada (also very common). The list is endless.

Another problem is that you just don’t know what you are going to get. I suspect that, deep down, a lot of parents dislike their kids. They may love them, but that’s just nature. We often love people we don’t like.

[Dougella]

^ Nice work colleague your sister has there!

I think the problem is that some people have unrealistic expectations of having children. Anyone having children thinking that it will make them happy is going to be disappointed! But it certainly can have happy moments being part of a growing family, if someone enjoys looking after kids, being around kids, doing lots of activities and having things to do all the time they'll probably get on well. Plus kids can be fun sometimes, so I've heard.

[Dougella]

"Stop farting on the cat!" Examples of things kids make parents say that they never thought they would.

[Consolida]

Originally Posted by Orwell20

One of the big problems, he said, is the worry. You love them so much that you literally worry about them every day until you die. I am in my 40s now, so had I had a daughter in my early 20s she'd now be leaving for university, or to go backpacking around Thailand, or something. I just cannot imagine the terror I would be feeling, knowing that she's out in the world and I can no longer protect her. People would just spout the usual cliches ("got to let them go," "it's her life," "they have to make their own mistakes" etc), which wouldn't help at all.

I can so relate to this.

When you have a child you worry about them 24/7. I mistakenly thought that I would worry less as my child grew older but I know now that I'll continue to worry until I gasp my very last breath. The sort of things you worry about obviously change over the years but the intensity of the fear and anxiety that you feel is always the same. The fear of a peodophile snatching my child away has been replaced by the fear of my muscular 5 ft 10 teenager running into a gang of drunken or drug crazed youths. Size or strength offers zero protection when so many kids carry around knives. And when my child starts to drive I'll know that I won't rest until I hear that key turn in the lock.

I can say, hand on heart, that I have never for a single nano second regretted having a child but when you love somebody so deeply and unconditionally the worry you have for them is absolute torture.

[Dougella]

^^ I think you're right there and women are starting to talk about that a bit more honestly now. Because the expectation is that if a woman's just had a baby she will be the happiest she's ever felt, but she's been through a huge physical change and then she is at home 24 hours a day with a baby that needs constant care and attention and she's sleep deprived. Ofcourse that's going to be somewhat difficult even when the baby is very much wanted and loved! But women feel guilty for not enjoying having a baby the way it's made to seem that they should.

This is where having lots of support from family, or friends, and men having more parental leave becomes really important. Aswell as people actually talking about the realities of what having a baby involves so people can work out what is actually helpful during that time or get appropriate help if they are suffering with post natal depression and not feel worried about doing that.

Your parents may regret becoming parents for some reason, but they wouldn't regret having you, they love you.

[Indigo_]

It's quite common I think, a short while after giving birth to have the 'baby blues'. Women can struggle to bond with their baby straight away.

[Dougella]

^ I have read that it's quite common for women on the third day after birth to have a kind of weepy day, where it's just the hormones settling or something but completely normal. And yes, not bonding instantly, because they look very scrunched and red and look a bit like an alien when they're very first born but after they've been cleaned up a bit and wrapped in a blanket then the parents feel like they can actually see their baby more clearly and start to bond.

[Rocket Spud]

They should lick the afterbirth off the baby like they used to in the olden days, that's the way to bond properly.

[Dougella]

^

[T]

For me sadly not have babysat my nieces and nephews to put me off...

[Blackflies]

A friend keeps throwing not so subtle digs my way about how I better get a move on. All stemming from the fact he’s just become a father. He’s 10 years older and is constantly implying how I’ll be too old soon. Haha oh to be a man, to be a man.

[Dougella]

^ I'd have a few choice words for him if I were you!

[Blackflies]

^ haha I bit my tongue but should of! Would be in one ear out the other though I suspect.

[Mellie]

Sometimes I do , I get broody when I see babies sometimes but I know what a nightmare they can be.... I don't think I could cope looking after a child, especially with mental health issues.

[Asymmetric Being]

I thought I would regret not having children but, honestly, I don't. If I had met my current partner a few years earlier then maybe we would have had some but we both agree that it would change our lives too much. I wouldn't have any at his stage in my life, I have very little energy as it is.

Cats on the other hand.....

[Orwell20]

I had this conversation with my sister (who also has no children) over christmas. She said "life's just so horrible that I'd feel guilty for bringing a child into the world," which pretty much sums up my view. I didn't know she thought the same way.

[Dougella]

The more I learn about childbirth and breastfeeding the more I think I'm definitely not cut out for it! I have no problem with the idea of other women breastfeeding but the thought of doing it myself, especially after hearing that babies sometimes bite is an absolute no. Plus then hearing that when toddlers get to the temper tantrum stage they sometimes hit and bite their parents! The positive points about having children wouldn't outweigh things like that for me.

[Ben1981]

Pretty sure I will regret it the older I get but I know now its unlikely to happen and probably for the best as I'm not wired up to be a parent. Up until recently I was fine with that although my Dad passed away in February following a nasty fall that broke his hip last June which lead to several operations, infections, various attempts to get him home and then heading back to Hospital to repeat the process until finally his body gave up on him. Throughout his time on the various wards I was constantly visiting him and trying to keep his spirits up telling him everything will be ok in the end and promising all the good things we can do once he is better. And when he was finally at the end I was there by his side to watch him take his final breath . Putting myself in his position without the supportive kid(s) trying to help me through a situation like that it would be better if I just went quick cos I would have gone through a lonely miserable ordeal that had no incentive of coming through the other end. But yeah even without something like this happening I will still end up being lonely and full of regrets when I am old and likely leading an isolated existence although my intention is not to make it that far. Once I feel I am drifting towards that situation when I'm not really living just existing then not much point carrying on.

[Consolida]

^^ So sorry to hear about your Dad, Ben
I'm sure having you by his side brought him much comfort


I think getting old and frail and not having anyone is a big worry for a lot of people who don't have children. But, of course having children is no guarantee either. Sometimes parents and children are estranged, live far apart, or very sadly a child has passed before the parent.
Having my adult child by my side would undoubtedly bring much comfort but on the other hand I absolutely hate the thought of them having to put their own life on hold in any way while they watch their ageing mother physically and mentally disintegrate. Perhaps I should book up that one way ticket to Switzerland now

[Percy]

Sorry to hear about your dad ben.