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  #1  
Old 16th February 2019, 22:26
BritishPeace BritishPeace is offline
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Default Longterm unemployed and I love it

Never really had a longterm job and never wanted one or a career.

Went to university and got my degree. Graduated and never really had a job since, had a few short term jobs e.g. bar, warehouse but always quit and I have no intention to get a job again unless forced to. I hate working and don't see why people would want a job (unless supporting children, I don't have any). I feel mentally great and don't see any 'moral' inclination to get a job.
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  #2  
Old 16th February 2019, 23:43
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I think if it wasn't for the financial incentive a lot of people wouldn't be doing the jobs they are at the moment, that's for certain!
Personally though I want to be working, there are things that I want to do and achieve and I'd really like to be able to support myself. Not working is very restrictive, it causes a lot of extra stress and it makes me personally feel self conscious.

How are you managing financially BP if you're not working?
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  #3  
Old 16th February 2019, 23:57
Schmosby Schmosby is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

If people didn't work, we would all be homeless and starve. The only reason some people are able to choose not work currently is because most others do work to support them.

Morally it's like living in a shared house and refusing to take your turn to clean the toilet, saying "WHY SHOULD I?", the answer is because you live there and use the toilet too.
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  #4  
Old 17th February 2019, 08:09
Toxic Toxic is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

If someone would pay me my current mediocre wage to not actually bother turning up to work..I'd snap their bloody hand off, hell I'd take a pay cut.

I don't get any job satisfaction, I don't get any positive feelings about having a routine/structure in my life..I spend my life being someones bitch and when I'm not someones bitch I'm too tired to do anything else

I am envious of the people who love their jobs but I am not one of them. I've actually done ok as what I'm currently doing is quite up my street but still I hate doing it.

Also most of the conversations I have with friends are usually along the lines of..I hate this place, I want to leave, I need a new job..I quit my job and life is great. I suspect a vast majority of the world have a similar view!
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  #5  
Old 17th February 2019, 08:53
Indigo_ Indigo_ is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I would love to be able not to work. I could quite happily just play video games all day.
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  #6  
Old 17th February 2019, 08:57
Consolida Consolida is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I'd always dreamt of a career in Nursing and loved my job but thanks to my severe SA and a few very nasty colleagues I became extremely ill and had no choice but to give it up. Now I'm financially dependent on my husband, my child has grown up, and I lack any purpose in life.

Unlike you BP, I absolutely HATE long term unemployment and have found it to be nothing but demoralising
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  #7  
Old 17th February 2019, 11:14
GoldFish GoldFish is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I wish I was, to be honest. Even just part-time. I used to do part-time and I loved it compared to full time. Full time I felt like I was barely existing and mostly burnt out and tired.

I'm a good, hard worker, so leaders like me for that, but I never get anywhere because social hierarchy usually means I'm just too damn nice and mild-mannered to get to a leadership position. I have zero ideas about office politics and playing the game at work.

Another thing is that management usually sees me as an easy person to criticise and threaten. As those might know, Management usually have to be seen as critiquing something, using the problem, reaction and solution method. So if you're just a nice "yes" type worker, then any workplace will be a struggle, again, because of social hierarchy and the ruthlessly competitive nature of human beings these days.

So yes, I will agree with you. Longterm free time can be incredible if you can get it in a classy way.

I think part-time and living the Italian lifestyle sounds amazing. They have a Mediterranean diet, a good lifestyle, they aren't a 24/7 rate race of monstrous capitalism. They value free time and an actual authenticity of lifestyle balance. Good food. That's the answer, not the 24-7 Capitalist race to the bottom, obsessed with status and money. That's not the answer at all. Many people just want to live a balanced life in affordable cities and many people just want part-time hours and a way to live a life that's affordable. Instead most of the capital cities are too expensive with housing, bills, goods, and there is an obsession with status and money. Meh!! there is no substance to that in my opinion. It's all a bit hollow.
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  #8  
Old 17th February 2019, 11:22
GoldFish GoldFish is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Consolida
I'd always dreamt of a career in Nursing and loved my job but thanks to my severe SA and a few very nasty colleagues I became extremely ill
This is the issue of working in the service industries, sometimes health, food, sales, anything that has a high-stress quota. Any job can be like this. But some industries can be pretty consistent.

good luck, hopefully, you can find something that's more suited.
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  #9  
Old 17th February 2019, 18:49
Indigo_ Indigo_ is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldFish
I wish I was, to be honest. Even just part-time. I used to do part-time and I loved it compared to full time. Full time I felt like I was barely existing and mostly burnt out and tired.
I worked part-time last year and definitely preferred it
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  #10  
Old 17th February 2019, 18:53
Toxic Toxic is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Part time would be a decent compromise..I'd need to double my wage before I halved my hours though
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  #11  
Old 17th February 2019, 20:35
Ronnie_Pickering Ronnie_Pickering is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Not working is cheating. Like hey I get really nice foods, I get really nice items and I won't contribute back! Sod you the people working their ass off that put together your tv, sod you the people working their ass off to get the food on the shelves, sod you the people working night shifts to sort your parcel out and get it delivered to you tomorrow morning.
Fair enough if someone genuinely can't though.
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  #12  
Old 17th February 2019, 21:47
LittleMissMouse LittleMissMouse is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Yeah, I'd love to be in the position that I didn't have to work but I like buying nice things, I like going on holiday, I like being able to buy my family nice presents for birthdays and Christmas etc. and I like being able to walk into a shop and drop some dollar on something that I like but don't really need without having to live on beans and spaghetti hoops for 2 weeks in order to do that, so yeah, that traditional exchange of money for labour works OK for me.
And, my education, like a lot of peoples, cost the taxpayer quite a lot of money when you add it all up so not using that for the greater good is a bit selfish.
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  #13  
Old 17th February 2019, 22:14
FraidyCat FraidyCat is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishPeace
I feel mentally great and don't see any 'moral' inclination to get a job.
I don't know if your parents/partner are supporting you or if other taxpayers are supporting you.

If it is other taxpayers then you do have a moral obligation to support yourself if you can. How can you not see that?

If its your parents or partner, then as long as they are happy with it, but most people rarely are ..


I guess people are now so used to being told that they have so many Rights.

We no longer tell people that they also have Responsibilities and Obligations.


"I knew this guy. He'd been in a motorcycle accident and it really ruined him. And he was a linesman, you know working on the power lines. And he was working with someone who had Parkinson's disease and they had complimentary inadequacies. And so two of them could do the job of one person and they were out there fixing power lines in the freezing cold, despite the fact that one was three quarters wrecked from a motorcycle accident and the other one had Parkinson's.
And that's how our civilisation works. There are all these ruined people out there. They've got problems like you can't believe. And off they go to work and do things they dont even like. And look the lights are on! It's unbelievable, it's a miracle. It's a Miracle!..
..It is the oldest story of mankind:
Get yourself together,
Transcend your suffering,
See if you can be some kind of hero,
Make the suffering in the world less." -- Jordan Peterson
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  #14  
Old 17th February 2019, 23:16
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

^ That example there just makes me think of how cruel it is that we are still forcing people to work who clearly aren't in a condition to be doing so in conditions that are very likely to make their health significantly worse.
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  #15  
Old 18th February 2019, 00:07
FraidyCat FraidyCat is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I don't think anyone was forcing him.
A lot of people, especially men, have a strong psychological desire to work hard. And when they become long term unemployed they suffer very badly.
On the other side of the bell curve there seem to be people who don't care much about working hard at all.
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  #16  
Old 18th February 2019, 10:18
sillypenguin sillypenguin is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Nobody 'needs' to work full time, there are lots of part time options, self employment or you could go back into full time study. Whatever works for you really! I personally am not allowed any benefits so I have been working part time (albeit in different jobs) for over 2 years due to my health. I am now finally at the stage where I really want to work full time as I mentally feel a lot better and I am bored of using all my money for just my bills and train travel to workand having no fun
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  #17  
Old 18th February 2019, 10:23
Mr. Nobody Mr. Nobody is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I'm like you British Peace, in that I've never felt there was any honour or acknowledged debt to society being given by working 9-5 every day of your life,. till you die,

working in the same boring dreary job, locked away in an office or warehouse for 50 years of your life is basically a waste of a life,

I'm against this waste,
but there has to be a way in between,.

there's a great skill, art even,.. in finding or doing a job that contributes to life, and fulfils you,
being creative and productive in a certain way can seriously fulfil you and enrich your life,
trouble is,. making it happen.
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  #18  
Old 18th February 2019, 13:44
Consolida Consolida is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

On a mental health forum there will be a lot of people here who will have tried their hardest to hold down a job but eventually became so unwell that this was no longer an option for them. A lot of Employees tend not to want to employ people who are regularly on the verge of having a mental breakdown and consequently end up taking weeks off at a time after their latest suicide attempt (Btw, I'm talking generally here NOT about myself or anyone else).

Most people who have experienced long term unemployment due to ill health surely want nothing more than to feel well enough to return to doing some kind of work....don't they

To be financially dependent on meagre Government handouts or family members (despite being very unwell through no fault of your own) can feel incredibly demeaning for people who crave their own independence. It certainly did nothing to help my already low self esteem issues especially when people that barely know you think it's fine to tell you to your face that you need to pull yourself together and get a job you lazy blah blah blah. You get the picture!!

Then, on top of all that, you have the likes of Jordan Peterson trotting out helpful and inspiring anecdotes about people who have been dealt the worst possible physical disabilities in life and yet still manage to go off to work every day with a smile on their face because they're contributing to the moral good of society. Amazing!
Unfortunately though, instead of being a source of inspiration I fear that it sometimes causes those people who are unable to work due to mental illness to feel even worse about themselves than they often already do.

I do agree with you in part British Peace. I think if someone is physically and mentally healthy but doesn't 'feel under any moral obligation to work' then that's perfectly fine.....IF they are able to financially support themselves in some way or have a partner or parents that are happy to do so.

However, I don't think it's okay at all to expect other people (who have to get up every day to do dead end jobs that they loathe) to financially support totally healthy people who simply don't fancy working at all. I do believe that people who feel that way, contrary to public opinion, are very few and far between.

I can't actually imagine why anyone who feels healthy both in body and mind wouldn't aspire to someday having a job whether voluntary, part time, or full time if it means that they can financially support themselves while at the same time contributing to their own well being and perhaps even to Societys as a whole in some small way.

Btw, BP, I am genuinely pleased to hear you say that you are currently feeling 'mentally great' as I know from reading your past posts that you've had more than your fair share of mental health struggles. You've done really well to come this far

All the best
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  #19  
Old 18th February 2019, 14:35
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

^ I totally agree with you there
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  #20  
Old 18th February 2019, 15:08
newbs16 newbs16 is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

^^ Another great reply
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  #21  
Old 18th February 2019, 15:20
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

I'm also long-term unemployed. I'm 42 and have never really worked. My only experience of an office was 2 weeks on my local newspaper during school work experience. I hated it. I spent a couple of years writing articles for a health and well-being website and managed to save over ten grand, which gave me a bit of self-respect, but it folded. Other than that I've always lived at home and been supported by my parents.

Living as I do fills me with shame, and I feel isolated and cut off from the world. However, I 100% do not regret not having spent the last 20 years in an office or warehouse. Most people I know loathe their job, which often seems to grind the life and soul out of them. A huge number of jobs are utterly pointless and worthless anyway. A book was published recently called Bulls*it Jobs, which argued that most jobs contribute nothing to society. Also, though it is humiliating to live off my mother, I don't claim benefits or have children.

I agree that it's not fair to live off others. And I would like to find some way of paying taxes. But if it became possible to not work and live off a 'Universal Basic Income', I'd jump at the chance. Bring on the AI and robotic revolution! Being trapped in an office all day with random strangers, half of whom are loathsome **nts, is my idea of hell. I could live on a UBI for another 200 years without getting bored. I'd learn German and ancient Greek, go fishing, read Proust, take a degree in art history, hike around the countryside. It would be bliss. Most people only work to boost up their ego. It isn't just the money, it's the idiotic job title they love, plus the little bit of power and status. I don't need that.
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  #22  
Old 18th February 2019, 16:17
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

^ I was going to mention a Universal Basic Income! If it was done right it would be hugely freeing for a lot of people and actually enable people to work more, go back to education, volunteer and all the kinds of things you mention.
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  #23  
Old 18th February 2019, 17:41
Ronnie_Pickering Ronnie_Pickering is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillypenguin
Nobody 'needs' to work full time, there are lots of part time options, self employment or you could go back into full time study. Whatever works for you really! I personally am not allowed any benefits so I have been working part time (albeit in different jobs) for over 2 years due to my health. I am now finally at the stage where I really want to work full time as I mentally feel a lot better and I am bored of using all my money for just my bills and train travel to workand having no fun
yeah exactly, thats how I see things. I work part-time. I have a pittance of money though
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  #24  
Old 18th February 2019, 18:09
neilm neilm is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishPeace
Never really had a longterm job and never wanted one or a career.

Went to university and got my degree. Graduated and never really had a job since, had a few short term jobs e.g. bar, warehouse but always quit and I have no intention to get a job again unless forced to. I hate working and don't see why people would want a job (unless supporting children, I don't have any). I feel mentally great and don't see any 'moral' inclination to get a job.
I think, basically that the majority, of people would prefer not to work really.

If people were honest with themselves the main reason that the average person does work is simply for the wage. I know that why I work

In recent years though there does seem to be a rather curious phenomenon of certain types of folk "implying" that they are somehow working for some sort of "moral" reason, or that they are somehow "superior" to those who arnt in paid employment simply because they are earning a wage.

Ive also noticed that The present Tory government seems to almost Fetishise the whole concept of Paid Employment in a way that seems rather odd, and slightly strange. Its almost as if they think that "working" as a means in itself is more important than the actual income that comes at the end of it
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Old 18th February 2019, 19:19
sillypenguin sillypenguin is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by affluenza
yeah exactly, thats how I see things. I work part-time. I have a pittance of money though
Its rubbish isn't it i pay no tax, not that it helps much. Its a shame because my current job has been very manageable and the money is the only thing I have an issue with. I'm getting a couple more hours this week and next which should really help, but yeah long term it's not a viable means of income. I won't really be living my best life being there.
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  #26  
Old 18th February 2019, 20:09
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

^ You make some very good points there. Someone in my family trained and had a good job but was miserable and bored so they decided to go travelling and they've now settled in another country and they work more part time and spend the rest of their time on other things (they don't claim any benefits). They are much happier now. I guess the fact that they don't have any children to support is a factor in being able to do this, and they're still using the training they did for their original job. I think if someone is happier working less, or in a less conventional way, and they're able to do that then why not!
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  #27  
Old 18th February 2019, 20:38
far north far north is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmosby
If people didn't work, we would all be homeless and starve. The only reason some people are able to choose not work currently is because most others do work to support them.

Morally it's like living in a shared house and refusing to take your turn to clean the toilet, saying "WHY SHOULD I?", the answer is because you live there and use the toilet too.
Actually, (as others have said) the vast majority of people are only working because they want to be better off financially and to be able to buy nice things/ own cars/ go on foreign holidays etc.

Ime sorry but I simply dont believe that any but a small minority of workers are toiling away for Moral Reasons at all. I think that almost everyone works because (even if they dont admit it) they know that being on the dole and living in such dire financial straits would be much worse.

Seems blatantly obvious to me........
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  #28  
Old 18th February 2019, 20:40
Chimpy Chimpy is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Afraid to say that almost everyone in the country will need the welfare state at some point in their lives, and people work to maintain that welfare state, particularly in healthcare. It's all very well to say you don't have a moral duty to work, fine, but then the counter argument is that no-one has a moral duty to look after you when you are old and decrepit either.
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  #29  
Old 18th February 2019, 20:40
Schmosby Schmosby is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by itzum
To those not pleased at this thread, where is the moral imperative to take paid employment? It's a choice, one people almost always make solely to acquire money for themselves or their families. A few people find additional/other reasons, but remove money from the equation and while some would still work (these people may well be doing voluntary work now), most wouldn't. I certainly would walk away from my job tomorrow if I wasn't being paid for it!

Yes if you work your income is taxed. If you earn more you pay more. That tax is then spent in whatever way the government of the day decides is appropriate, and for complicated reasons it is deemed appropriate that some of that money is given to those who are not working, or working but on low incomes.

But that tax is also used to protect your private property rights. No tax, no state, no protection, how much is your hard earned money worth now?

If your life is better for working, then you can continue to make that choice. If someone finds their live is improved by not working, or working less, why does it matter to you? You can choose the same life, why don't you?
I don't think the morality question is about choosing to work and therefore being a superior human, it's about not choosing not to work because it the path of least resistance and expecting others that don't agree with your decision to foot your costs (If you live with your parents/partner or whatever and they cover your costs, that's a different matter).

Imagine you move into a house share with 3 other people, it's the only house available in your area, so you have no choice and as part of the agreement, you have to pay 20% of your wages into a fund to cover repairs and cover any missed rent during sickness etc. At the end of each month you barely scrape by. One day one of your flatmates decides they won't work anymore, as it's a choice and there is the emergency fund there to cover them, so they start chilling at home, drinking beer and playing computer games, while you are out working to pay for them. After a few years of work and poverty you get a pay rise and are finally going to have some of your own money for yourself, however the agreement is then changed, as you are privileged enough to get a pay rise, you now need to pay 50% of your wages and the extra money is used to build your non working flatmate her own flat, so she can have "independence". This is the current system we have.

Do all the housemates have a choice to stop working? No, because you would all end up with no home and no money.

Is it fair that you are paying a higher percentage of your wage after you worked hard to get your new position at work? No, obviously, it was your hard work and you should benefit.

Was your flatmate's choice to stop working morally reasonable? No, because it's selfish to leave the others in that awful position.

If the money used to cover this choice was just printed, it would be fine, but that money represents time in other people's lives that they have lost and cannot get back, based on an agreement that they have no choice in.
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  #30  
Old 18th February 2019, 20:47
far north far north is offline
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Default Re: Longterm unemployed and I love it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimpy
Afraid to say that almost everyone in the country will need the welfare state at some point in their lives, and people work to maintain that welfare state, particularly in healthcare. It's all very well to say you don't have a moral duty to work, fine, but then the counter argument is that no-one has a moral duty to look after you when you are old and decrepit either.
Dont want to be argumentative, but as I said earlier I dont believe that we work to maintain the welfare state either. I cant imagine that even 1% of the population are slogging away primarily for that reason.

Really if we are being honest, we all work (paid work I mean) primarily for ourselves (and perhaps our immediate family).

I honestly think it would be a lot better if people in the UK just admitted this fact and stopped pretending otherwise
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