Married or in a relationship? You don't have SA

[Chimpy]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

SA becomes altered and lessesned

Don't think I agree. A lot of mental health problems are improved by being in a relationship, don't get me wrong - I am less depressed and certainly (obviously!) a lot less lonely. But SA is pretty much the same as it always was.

[firemonkey]

Although i found it easy to talk to my wife i still had problems interacting and talking with other people especially newcomers/strangers.

[Mr. Nobody]

there's one aspect of this thread that isn't being explored,..and should be of some interest to Chris P,..for one,...
the very fact that so many people have responded to say
"yes,..of course I have SA but yet I'm still able to have a relationship " offers a great deal of hope for those who don't yet feel able to have a relationship or those who are tentatively exploring the idea / promise of one, but are fearful of it.
I think the very fact that so many people on here are in relationships should be a great sign for others who aren't,..it means it's definately not as impossible as you may have originally imagined, and that you can't really write yourself off if other people have managed to enjoy and cope with relationships, it gives you the notion that it is actually possible, so it's a good thing to hear of SA people having relationships,..and should'nt really be a source of angst,..confusion or misery.

[karl-32]

Originally Posted by Chris P

I honestly can't get my head around the idea that people who post on here who claim to have SA i

claim to have sa??????

look mate we have SA but we arnt total losers and freaks . just because we have social problems we dont have to be shelved .

i do have SA i dont claim to and the person i'm in a relationship with has SA too and we have a relationship , go out , play pool , go for a drink in pubs , have meals out.

SA doesn't equal life over

[VO2]

Originally Posted by jerry302199

there's one aspect of this thread that isn't being explored,..and should be of some interest to Chris P,..for one,...
the very fact that so many people have responded to say
"yes,..of course I have SA but yet I'm still able to have a relationship " offers a great deal of hope for those who don't yet feel able to have a relationship or those who are tentatively exploring the idea / promise of one, but are fearful of it.
I think the very fact that so many people on here are in relationships should be a great sign for others who aren't,..it means it's definately not as impossible as you may have originally imagined, and that you can't really write yourself off if other people have managed to enjoy and cope with relationships, it gives you the notion that it is actually possible, so it's a good thing to hear of SA people having relationships,..and should'nt really be a source of angst,..confusion or misery.

Well said

[Xithium]

I agree Jerry, I see a lot of attempts to deny that those in a relationship can possibly be suffering from 'real' SA, but why can it not instead be a case of taking hope and positivity from the fact that it evidences that even those of us who are suffering from mental health problems can be in relationships? I understand people's feelings of 'oh, well, they obviously aren't as affected by SA as me' or such like. But what if (as can absolutely be the case) they do suffer just as much, and yet have still found themselves with a partner? I have a lot of problems, yet against the odds I've found someone who wants to put up with me. So it's not as impossible as one might think, even if it seems to be that way.

Originally Posted by Chimpy

Don't think I agree. A lot of mental health problems are improved by being in a relationship, don't get me wrong - I am less depressed and certainly (obviously!) a lot less lonely. But SA is pretty much the same as it always was.

Same for me. Being in a relationship has lessened my depression slightly, but as for SA. . . that's just the same, if not slightly worse even. I've perhaps become too reliant on feeling relatively anxiety-free going out with my other half, which in turn has led to me making less of an effort to tackle my SA by doing things by myself or attempting to meet other people. I've unintentionally fallen into a bit of a comfort zone, wherein when I'm around him I don't realise just how much I'm still affected by SA when he's not there to go out with me or do the things I used to have to tackle by myself. And obviously that's quite a dangerous and unhealthy position to be in, as I'm not really making progress within myself in regard to my issues - they're just being temporarily masked when he's around. Not that I'm trying to sound ungrateful for being in my relationship, absolutely not (I feel incredibly fortunate to have found him), but that's the reality of it.

[UkG]

Originally Posted by Chris P

This is not a rant, neither am I having a dig at people, so here goes...

Put simply, if you can approach women, the world is you oyster, so to speak.

Some people are approached, why do you assume people with sa do the approaching, I don't appraoch anyone, the thought of being rejected would destroy me, I couldn't deal with it.

So I just don't approach anyone so I don't have to deal with it, ignorance is bliss for me.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

When you're in a relationship it's easier for countless reasons all of which form support and at the end of the day the bonus of a shag and a cuddle. SA becomes altered and lessesned, shyness less so.

On a personal level, I can't agree. I'm not suggesting this is not the case for you, of course.

I was SA long before my relationships and I've been exactly the same both in relationships and in the gaps between.

Unfortunately for me, my SA is my SA. It doesn't change because I'm with someone. I wish it did.

Everyone is different, of course. So I'm not suggesting other people's SA won't lessen/change to some degree if they are in a relationship.

[UkG]

Originally Posted by Benfica

On a personal level, I can't agree. I'm not suggesting this is not the case for you, of course.

I was SA long before my relationships and I've been exactly the same both in relationships and in the gaps between.

Unfortunately for me, my SA is my SA. It doesn't change because I'm with someone. I wish it did.

Everyone is different, of course. So I'm not suggesting other people's SA won't lessen/change to some degree if they are in a relationship.

Yeah if anything mine get's worse when I'm with someone as I end up being in more situations that I wouldn't need to put myself in if I was single.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Unlucky In Love

Yeah if anything mine get's worse when I'm with someone as I end up being in more situations that I wouldn't need to put myself in if I was single.

Absolutely!

When single it is easier to stay in the comfort zone, but relationships mean that you have to work with a lot of discomfort at times. When we have more than just ourselves to consider, we sometimes have to venture out of the comfort zone a lot more than we would choose to do so.

[Medea]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

When you're in a relationship it's easier for countless reasons all of which form support and at the end of the day the bonus of a shag and a cuddle. SA becomes altered and lessesned, shyness less so.

That might be your experience of being in a relationship, but it certainly isn't mine. My husband does support me, that's true, but he can't do anything to lessen the anxiety I feel around strangers. Sex doesn't do anything for your SA, not really sure why it would. There is also the aspect of having to support your other half, even if they don't have mental health problems, just the general stresses of life, it can be 2 helpings of worry instead of one.

[UkG]

Originally Posted by Benfica

Absolutely!

When single it is easier to stay in the comfort zone, but relationships mean that you have to work with a lot of discomfort at times. When we have more than just ourselves to consider, we sometimes have to venture out of the comfort zone a lot more than we would choose to do so.

Yeah and the way I am often causes arguments especially with my ex as a lot of the time I used to never want to go out, she just used to think I was lazy, and when I used to try and tell her I just felt ugly and rough she would say stop being an idiot.

I guess I just want someone who understands me, most would think I was odd though lol

[black_mamba]

I think it's becoming obvious that both sides are somewhat unable to see some of the finer issues with the other's situation.

Being without a partner for a long period of time does have a very negative effect on your feelings of self-worth, makes life very lonely, and creates worries about inexperience (as Emissary mentioned). In that sense, having a first boyfriend/girlfriend would alleviate some of those worries, but certainly not all, as Chris P may like to think it does.

But having a partner isn't always a good thing, as AL mentioned there can be numerous negative effects of having a partner which are often ignored by people who have little relationship experience (naturally).

I can't lie that my previous relationship didn't do wonders for my SA - my confidence improved but at the same time I was exposed to some incredibly stressful situations that actually made my anxiety worse. The whole thing fell apart recently and mental health (SA, GAD) played a huge part in that.


Why do some of us feel the need to negate other people's anxiety? Can someone answer this?

Relationships? Jobs? Friends? Talkative nature? Attractive? YES you can still have social anxiety. Jeeeez.

The only condition for not having SA, is not having the symptoms of SA. Thats it.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by The Running Man

^BM get ready to get pounced on, now that you said you're single lol

Ha, I wish.

Anyway, I love being single. Less SA that way.

[GhostOnMagneticTape]

I just find it mind boggling and offensive there are a minority of people who think others do not have SA (or feel the need to question) because they are in a relationship, have a job, good looks or whatever which is a total distortion of reality and/or ingrained bitterness at other people's progress and determination.

[Dandelion10]

That was well said Black Mamba.

Sometimes we have a sense of what we capable of just like we have a sense of what were not capable of.

SA sets barriers which we don't understand, we just know thats our limit and to complicate matters further-sometimes those limits change over the years.

I've managed one date with a guy last year, I went because we'd chatted for over a year online and I felt comfortable with him (I confess sometimes I choose degenerates to associate with because it's safer/easier ).

When we met my confidence went THROUGH . THE . ROOF . I walked around holding his hand feeling 100% normal, I felt 10 ft tall, I was just the same as every other girl and could do whatever the hell I wanted and I didn't even fancy him.

For me it's hard to seperate the bitterness I feel towards couples with the fact that people with SA can still have relationships. It comes down to what you allow yourself to have. Those who have love are only living their lives but you can't act indignant or deny being single is worse.

No-one is saying for a minute that if you have a partner you DON'T have SA at all because why else would you be here but relationships are an asset which redeems the condition a little even if it doesn't heal you.

[Mr_Bean]

I think these threads come up because obviously theres resentment that some people have managed to find relationships- when they themselves find things so vastly crippling- that its hard to even envisage how. But it is ludicrous to suggest- that x or y person does not have sa. Its like OCD, shyness- it just doesn't vanish just because somebody has a relationship type thing.

[Medea]

Originally Posted by Emissary

If you have SA thoughts about people finding out about your sexual inexperience and laughing at you and looking down at you because of it, then getting some sexual experience might help alleviate those worries.

Perhaps so. I was a month shy of 24 when I had my first kiss. I know what it's like to feel as you describe. But having sex in a relationship is a moot point as most people crave the relationship and not the sex. Having sex has not rid me of my sa and not having experience up until I was 24 will live with me, and make me feel a failure, forever. It's just another stick to beat myself with. Once you're in a relationship the anxiety doesn't stop. If anything it can increase. You worry about pleasing that person, keeping them happy. You worry about losing them and the fear and pain that would bring. You worry about whether they're too good for you, whether you embarrass them etc etc and the big one that preys on you're mind if you have low self esteem is: what the hell do they see in me? Insecurities don't vanish at the first kiss, they just move on.

[Peyre]

I think some people are being a bit too harsh.

I think you can be well within your rights to feel "bitter", if people are actually repulsed by you physicaly, and they feel the need to tell you this......and if you go to sleep crying because members of the opposite sex, who you actually manage to get close to, tell you "youre not my type"

What are you expected to behave like?

And then if you are talking to, or reading extracts about other sufferers lives on here, it can be very depressing, and its a reason why I dont visit as often as i should. Seeing people beating social anxiety and being able to form healthy relationships should make others feel better, but its not always the case, and I think we should be able to understand that. Is it envy and jealousy? Yes, I am envious that I cannot look at myself in a mirror, I'm envious because people blatantly mock my skin/hair/build and consider me to be a bit of a joke, and yes I am extremely envious when i see someone who has the same mental health issues as me, cuddling up to a partner in an obvious warm and loving relationship.

I think it is healthy for people to take stock and look at what they do have compared to others, and feel fortonate, it may well help end Social Anxiety for good. (I'm lucky for example that I do have some amazing friends and a decent job that i can put my mind towards)

[Taylor]

Yeh, how many times do we say, If only...i would meet this criteria, i would be confident and happy, only to meet it, and still feel no different. Or take completely for granted the criteria we already meet anyway.

We think SA will be cured if achieve success socially and in relationships and in careers etc, when SA occurs and will always occur as long as we place too much worth on success and deem ourselves totally unworthy if we 'fail'. So we have to get rid of the values and self-hate first before we will ever get anywhere emotionally.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Peyre

What are you expected to behave like?

I don't think anyone is saying you have no right to feel jealous or bitter. Like you say it's a valid reaction. I think bitterness and jealousy become a big problem when it is turned into negativity at others, and in this thread some, including myself, have felt insulted at the insinuation that they were faking their SA. Again, another valid reaction.

[zork]

Originally Posted by Chris P

This is not a rant, neither am I having a dig at people, so here goes...

I honestly can't get my head around the idea that people who post on here who claim to have SA are actually in relationships or married. I really don't understand how exactly you can say you have SA being in this position. Put simply, if you can approach women, the world is you oyster, so to speak.

To me people with SA are more likely to be single and never had a girlfriend or boyfriend in their lives, like me.

Are there any guys on here married? If so, do you really have SA? In my experience, shyness is the route cause of my SA. So obviously being married you must of overcome this problem somehow?

SA - shyness = SA free

I can see your point. I am married and this is a brief outline of how I feel. I may not have sa but I know I feel unlike anyone else I know.
I met my missus down the pub and alcohol was the main instigator of the initial conversations. Im sooooo lucky I met her cos she really is my soulmate and my ONLY friend in this world.
However in every other aspect of my life I have zero confidence in dealing with people, I physically shake when talking to some people ( especially authority figures, WTF all that about Im 37??? )I blush virtually all the time and generally feel wretched & awkward and not part of the human race. I have the shittiest job imaginable where every day is a chore that tears my soul apart but I know Il never be able to do anything else cos I cant get on with people or communicate. My social life is non existant cos any friends I had have given up on me and if I were to go out I wouldnt know what to say to anyone anyway.

So thats it really, dunno if its sa or not but I do know Ive never met anyone as pathetic as me in my life and doubt I ever will

[steve45]

Originally Posted by Chris P

This is not a rant, neither am I having a dig at people, so here goes...

I honestly can't get my head around the idea that people who post on here who claim to have SA are actually in relationships or married. I really don't understand how exactly you can say you have SA being in this position. Put simply, if you can approach women, the world is you oyster, so to speak.

To me people with SA are more likely to be single and never had a girlfriend or boyfriend in their lives, like me.

Are there any guys on here married? If so, do you really have SA? In my experience, shyness is the route cause of my SA. So obviously being married you must of overcome this problem somehow?

SA - shyness = SA free

Theres a huge difference between people who have a specific social anxiety such as a job interview or approaching women for a date and people who have severe generalised social anxiety disorder. That does not mean though that people with specific or less severe generalised social anxiety do not suffer much more than a "normal" person.

In addition theres a difference between men and women who have severe generalised social anxiety disorder. A shy quiet man with low self-esteem is basically ****** when it comes to dating. These are not the qualities which women look for in a mate. In contrast a woman with these qualities may actually be more attractive to some males than most women.

[girlinterrupted]

Originally Posted by steve45

In addition theres a difference between men and women who have severe generalised social anxiety disorder. A shy quiet man with low self-esteem is basically ****** when it comes to dating. These are not the qualities which women look for in a mate. In contrast a woman with these qualities may actually be more attractive to some males than most women.

Uh oh

[girlinterrupted]

*hangs onto Kitri`s leg*

EDIT: well now this post makes noooo sense :D

[SoulSeeker]

Originally Posted by steve45

A shy quiet man with low self-esteem is basically ****** when it comes to dating. These are not the qualities which women look for in a mate.

That is depressing reading and i hope you are wrong.

I wouldn't say im shy and quiet by nature. When i say 'shy and quiet'..i mean like completely mute..finds it very difficult to open up in any occassion. No i can have a laugh..and i like talking about things..but im certainly not loud.

Anyways at the moment..i obviously have horrific low self esteem..along with my problems..in turn..turn me into that shy quiet guy you mention.

Now even when i recover a bit..im still always going to be shy and quiet to a pretty large degree..aswell as im always going to suffer self esteem issues.

So where does this leave me in the dating game then?

[steve45]

I was going to post a reply to a post which seems to have disapppeared.

To clarify...

I dont know whether women with acute generalised social anxiety order have it easier than men. It does seem logical though that in general they will find it easier to enter into relationships than men with similar problems simply because in our society men chase women and SA symptoms can be seen as attractive to men. As far as Im aware this is bore out by the ratio of men vs women seeking help for these problems( despite the fact that men rarely try to find help for mental health problems).

[Medea]

Originally Posted by steve45

I was going to post a reply to a post which seems to have disapppeared.

To clarify...

I dont know whether women with acute generalised social anxiety order have it easier than men. It does seem logical though that in general they will find it easier to enter into relationships than men with similar problems simply because in our society men chase women and SA symptoms can be seen as attractive to men. As far as Im aware this is bore out by the ratio of men vs women seeking help for these problems( despite the fact that men rarely try to find help for mental health problems).

Perhaps more women have SA so badly that they can't even visit a doctor? We can all draw the conclusions we want from the available data (btw wiki says women sufferers of SA outnumber men 2 to 1).

[girlinterrupted]

I don`t really want to get into the whole men vs women dating thing again,but I would point out some women find shyness attractive,as I`m told some men do


*resumes hiding*

[Defiance]

Originally Posted by SoulSeeker

That is depressing reading and i hope you are wrong.

I wouldn't say im shy and quiet by nature. When i say 'shy and quiet'..i mean like completely mute..finds it very difficult to open up in any occassion. No i can have a laugh..and i like talking about things..but im certainly not loud.

Anyways at the moment..i obviously have horrific low self esteem..along with my problems..in turn..turn me into that shy quiet guy you mention.

Now even when i recover a bit..im still always going to be shy and quiet to a pretty large degree..aswell as im always going to suffer self esteem issues.

So where does this leave me in the dating game then?

you need either looks or personality. don't know your personality but you do have looks.


socialize more, get a part time job with lots of females, join a class. after a while you will notice some females take an interest in you even if you are mute/quiet. the more you play dumb like you don't notice the more obvious they tend to be in the non verbal signals.

i had this both times on the jobcentre cource and as i was so quiet throughout the only reason i could think of why they seemed into me was because they liked the way i looked.


so to clarify take the same strategy in real life that you are doing in online dating. wait for the women to come to you.