paranoia

[hardy]

there seems to be a greater number of posts from paranoia suferrers lately. How can we handle it ? Obviously pointing out their delusions isnt going to work . Not sure if replying as if theyre not deluded helps either.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by hardy

there seems to be a greater number of posts from paranoia suferrers lately. How can we handle it ? Obviously pointing out their delusions isnt going to work . Not sure if replying as if theyre not deluded helps either.

I think paranoia is a tool of social control used by society to keep people in line. If a person's experiences differ too greatly from general human experience, they are told they are imagining it and must be paranoid.

It's a very quick way of shutting a person up - telling them they
must be deluded. What if they aren't? Is the fact they are the only one experiencing something reason enough to think they must be imagining it?

You have a baseline of how people are meant to act and respond to things; if you step outside this you'll be in trouble and most people will say you must be imagining it as they have no frame of refence for it themselves and they want to preserve the status quo.

[Sidd]

Originally Posted by hardy

there seems to be a greater number of posts from paranoia suferrers lately. How can we handle it ? Obviously pointing out their delusions isnt going to work . Not sure if replying as if theyre not deluded helps either.

I find many non paranoid people seriously naive.

Maybe that's a good thing, wandering around a life oblivious. Maybe that's how you were raised to be.

People make my toes curl. Hurt, cut, defended, cut again. Life isn't sweet.

[Dandelion10]

I know this sounds paranoid but was this inspired by my 'rejection' thread?

I shouldn't care whether or not people believe me or not but I do.

Put it this way, you know if someone likes you or not no matter what their job is. It's not THAT unbelievable FFS.

To answer the question, next time you hear something that sounds deluded, don't just go turn around and tell people that person is cuckoo cos the truth may be that you are simply as not as perceptive as they are.

Have you ever been to a party and returned home and someone said 'did you see how that bitch blanked me? I tried to speak to her and she totally ignored me' and then someone replies 'Oh shut up, she probably didn't hear you'.

It's like you can't win, you either say what you experienced even if it's hard to explain or you try hide you bad mood knowing you can't confide in anyone.

So just for a second-GIVE that person credit because to be fair, sometimes people DO witness the event and DO know that persons judgements are correct but they just don't want to hear or acknowledge it.

If you want an example, think about your jobs, how many people do you know who fiddle the rules, take stuff, lie, do the bare minimum, deny stuff, scout for naive co-workers to take advantage of?

We've all seen those things but if you go and tell someone chances are they wouldn't believe a word, isn't that frustrating? So don't flatter yourself that you're the only realist but equally, it's human nature to be sceptical and much as I hate to admit it, some of it DOES come from misconceptions, but you usually know when you're right.

[nessa456]

Originally Posted by Dandelion10

I know this sounds paranoid but was this inspired by my 'rejection' thread?

I shouldn't care whether or not people believe me or not but I do.

Put it this way, you know if someone likes you or not no matter what their job is. It's not THAT unbelievable FFS.

To answer the question, next time you hear something that sounds deluded, don't just go turn around and tell people that person is cuckoo cos the truth may be that you are simply as not as perceptive as they are.

Have you ever been to a party and returned home and someone said 'did you see how that bitch blanked me? I tried to speak to her and she totally ignored me' and then someone replies 'Oh shut up, she probably didn't hear you'.

It's like you can't win, you either say what you experienced even if it's hard to explain or you try hide you bad mood knowing you can't confide in anyone.

So just for a second-GIVE that person credit because to be fair, sometimes people DO witness the event and DO know that persons judgements are correct but they just don't want to hear or acknowledge it.

If you want an example, think about your jobs, how many people do you know who fiddle the rules, take stuff, lie, do the bare minimum, deny stuff, scout for naive co-workers to take advantage of?

We've all seen those things but if you go and tell someone chances are they wouldn't believe a word, isn't that frustrating? So don't flatter yourself that you're the only realist but equally, it's human nature to be sceptical and much as I hate to admit it, some of it DOES come from misconceptions, but you usually know when you're right.

I believe you - you've described nothing that doesn't come within the realms of typical human behaviour.

You just need to decide what you really want - a policeman as a boyfriend or to be left alone.

[firemonkey]

In my experience anxiety and paranoia lie on a continuum and it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins.
It's hard to engage with other people when you know that they know you're a freak and you are scared of being made fun of. because you have said/done something stupid.

[hardy]

Originally Posted by nessa456

I think paranoia is a tool of social control used by society to keep people in line. If a person's experiences differ too greatly from general human experience, they are told they are imagining it and must be paranoid.

It's a very quick way of shutting a person up - telling them they
must be deluded. What if they aren't? Is the fact they are the only one experiencing something reason enough to think they must be imagining it?

You have a baseline of how people are meant to act and respond to things; if you step outside this you'll be in trouble and most people will say you must be imagining it as they have no frame of refence for it themselves and they want to preserve the status quo.

Its a real easilly identifiable condition. Of course there are horrible events that really do happen which are treated sceptically by others because theres no evidence . But in paranoia its obvious because the sufferer keeps on suffering the same kind of "mistreatment" from completly different people . they read significance into unconected remarks, sights and sounds .Hear voices noone else can hear even in the same room. Typically they "know what others are thinking" . They accept as facts what others see as theories , myths or legends.

[GoldFish]

yeh i mean i cant stand gossip and it seems that well not all girls obviously, but mostly girls that do this...there are so many gossipy girls out there and its sickening to have to listen to their superficial rubbish, but the worst is middle aged ladies when they sit down and banter about people who they know who did something or something happened to them so it becomes this huge news story within the mothers group ...its so predictable and cliched as well...whenever it happens and im at the table i just stay quiet and dont enter the conversation at all or i roll my eyes and walk off but there have been a few times where i told them that "perhaps the person just needs some help" ...but the focus tends to be quite scathing towards the underachiever ...this coming from housewives who only live in nice houses because their husbands earn the bread ...none of it makes any sense to me at all ..the lack of empathy is astounding..

look i know i'm as bad as they are for complaining here but its the truth...

there are also alot of guys that gossip as well ...it just bores me..and i'm not interested..

[SoftlySpoken1]

I haven't read many posts on here lately - so I don't really know what I am talking about - but the paranoid and in fact the down right delusional have the right to post - really about whatever they want.

If you post in a forum like this - which is public and is lets face it fairly anonymous - then you have to expect to hear other peoples opinions and reactions to what you have said. They aren't always going to agree with you.

For me the problem comes if people are abusive in anyway. That isn't right.

I have got to a point where i feel that i have overcome my social anxiety to a reasonable extent. I look back and I know that at my very worst I was quite paranoid. Walking down the street, I did feel that people were laughing at me. I don't feel like that at all now. I hardly pay any attention to people in the street. As someone else said there is a spectrum of anxiety through to all out paranoia and delusions. And make no mistake absolutely everyone is somewhere on that spectrum.

[hardy]

Originally Posted by firemonkey

In my experience anxiety and paranoia lie on a continuum and it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins.
It's hard to engage with other people when you know that they know you're a freak and you are scared of being made fun of. because you have said/done something stupid.

SA is not paranoid because its based on a rational fear of not being able to perform well socially . So thats all about how you think you apear to others .
In paranoia you "know" what people think of you and typically you feel that people are often thinking about you and conspiring together in relation to you . Usually conspiring against you but sometimes you "know" theyre conspiring positively. Typically the paranoid person receives "secret messages " or decodes symbols written by the "conspirators".

[gingercat]

Originally Posted by hardy

But in paranoia its obvious because the sufferer keeps on suffering the same kind of "mistreatment" from completly different people .

Is that always due to paranoia though? I mean, that kind of describes what happened to me in my teens and I'm fairly sure it was real.

For example I would get called certain names by people I knew at school, but I would also often get called the same names by teenagers in the street who I'd never seen in my life before. In fact for a time I would get that from probably a majority of people in my age group. A lot of people seem to find this hard to believe but I know what I saw and heard (unless I've got worse problems that I ever thought and hallucinated the whole thing of course!).

Now I can see that it would be paranoia if I kept expecting the same treatment now as an adult with no evidence to back that up, or if I focussed in on the now-rare occurrences of that sort of behaviour and ignored everything else. But when I think back to what happened then, the phrase "You're not paranoid if they really are all out to get you" keeps coming to mind...

[hardy]

Originally Posted by gingercat

Is that always due to paranoia though? I mean, that kind of describes what happened to me in my teens and I'm fairly sure it was real.

For example I would get called certain names by people I knew at school, but I would also often get called the same names by teenagers in the street who I'd never seen in my life before. In fact for a time I would get that from probably a majority of people in my age group. A lot of people seem to find this hard to believe but I know what I saw and heard (unless I've got worse problems that I ever thought and hallucinated the whole thing of course!).

Now I can see that it would be paranoia if I kept expecting the same treatment now as an adult with no evidence to back that up, or if I focussed in on the now-rare occurrences of that sort of behaviour and ignored everything else. But when I think back to what happened then, the phrase "You're not paranoid if they really are all out to get you" keeps coming to mind...

i'm sure those type of events happen . I've seen it happen to people.
but paranoia is different . i've tried to describe the difference above . for example I think you knew that those comments came from the way you looked or acted ( unintentionally) . In paranoia theres a definite feeling of secret conspiricies going on that you cant prove ,but just "know".

[firemonkey]

http://www.iop.kcl.ac.uk/apps/parano...on/assess.aspx

[Ruby1]

Originally Posted by hardy

there seems to be a greater number of posts from paranoia suferrers lately. How can we handle it ? Obviously pointing out their delusions isnt going to work . Not sure if replying as if theyre not deluded helps either.

You mean me don't you Hardy! I know it i just know it...were it that post i done the other day...you know the one about the boobies with enormous breasts...it were weren't it ...geez maaaan stop talkin about me...



But seriously i have had terrible paranoia in the past...i guess i still do at times...i know that whenever someone writes something ominous on facebook...'someones p*ssed me off and i'm gonna smack you with a trout around the face and you know who you are' I always ALWAYS worry it's me!

I have gotten alot better on that front bottom though...i guess theres not alot people can do about other peoples paranoia...since it can be so utterly convincing...cheeky lil bugger that it is..

[SoftlySpoken1]

Originally Posted by hardy

i'm sure those type of events happen . I've seen it happen to people.
but paranoia is different . i've tried to describe the difference above . for example I think you knew that those comments came from the way you looked or acted ( unintentionally) . In paranoia theres a definite feeling of secret conspiricies going on that you cant prove ,but just "know".

Yes but that is just at an extreme end - we're all second guessing to some extent what other people think - it's when that runs away that it is 'clinical' and maybe that is what you are talking about. I had a friend who was psychotic at one time - she thought people were after her and read messages in car number plates. You couldn't argue with her. She believed it one hundred percent - she found messages in leaflets that came through her door. There is an element of paranoia in social anxiety.

[SoftlySpoken1]

Originally Posted by Ruby1

You mean me don't you Hardy! I know it i just know it...were it that post i done the other day...you know the one about the boobies with enormous breasts...it were weren't it ...geez maaaan stop talkin about me...

.

very amusing!

[SoftlySpoken1]

Originally Posted by gingercat

Is that always
For example I would get called certain names by people I knew at school, but I would also often get called the same names by teenagers in the street who I'd never seen in my life before. In fact for a time I would get that from probably a majority of people in my age group. A lot of people seem to find this hard to believe but I know what I saw and heard (unless I've got worse problems that I ever thought and hallucinated the whole thing of course!).

This is definitely bullying! I've worked in a school and seen this happen - an individual being victimised. It's a very difficult thing to deal with!

[hardy]

absolutely! Bullying can be wide spread. And it can be spread by joining in with other bullies and even by bullies who dont know each other latching onto the same body language.

but paranoia is different . Though the picture can be complicated by a mixture of real harrassment and imagined .

[Superfred]

Originally Posted by hardy

there seems to be a greater number of posts from paranoia suferrers lately. How can we handle it ? Obviously pointing out their delusions isnt going to work . Not sure if replying as if theyre not deluded helps either.

When I first read that line I thought you meant, how can we handle paranoia? (the paranoia sufferers) but I now realise you mean, how can the none paranoid handle the paranoid.

I suffer from paranoia and I am trying to find a way of managing it because at the moment when I have an attack of paranoia it can take me hours to calm down. Also, the paranoia never really goes away, it just subsides until it next attack - the fear, anxiety, doubtful thoughts, confusion and delusion* all remain there waiting to pounce.

* Whether it is a delusion or not isn't always easy to tell or even provable.

Anyway - I don't really have much to add.

[Winnie57]

I think people can be accused of being paranoid if they are over-sensitive to signals. For example at work if someone at work snubs me or appears to do so I can dwell on it all day if I am in that frame of mind. The key is to not care what people think of you. There will be some people who don't like you but the ones that matter will like you and treat you fairly. If you are being victimised at work you should make it known to people who can stop it happening but that takes a bit of courage!

[W!llow]

I probably get mildly paranoid at times but I have experienced someone being paranoid through drug use in the past it is on a whole different scale. It is exhausting and painful to the person and the person trying to help. Hardy mentioned paranoia involving thinking people are playing mind games on you making riddles for you to solve etc, when someone is really paranoid they come out with some really obscure stuff. The cause of their paranoia to start with could have truth to it but the ways and means they think someone is out to get them become quite convoluted.
Disclaimer: I haven't seen any of the threads that this thread is about yet and my response is entirely about my experience.

[hardy]

I'm a bit sorry I started this thread . Maybe a better way of putting it is as "how can we best help those who we SUSPECT of being paranoid?" Obviously its as useless to tell them baldly "youre paranoid" as it is to tell an anorexic "youre not fat".

[firemonkey]

How do I deal with delusions (false
beliefs) and hallucinations (perceiving
things that are not real)?
It is important to recognise that the delusions
and hallucinations are very real to the person.
You should not dismiss, minimise or argue
with the person about their delusions or
hallucinations. Similarly, do not act alarmed,
horrified or embarrassed by the person’s
delusions or hallucinations. You should
not laugh at the person’s symptoms of psychosis.
If the person exhibits paranoid behaviour, do not
encourage or inflame the person’s paranoia.

http://www.mhfa.com.au/documents/gui...guidelines.pdf

[Paladin]

I think it's better to be honest in general, I would want people to be honest about me. Maybe you could suggest the person is sounding paranoid without stating it?

I dunno though, I'm pretty useless at interaction and have caused offence a good few times without meaning to

[rico88]

Originally Posted by nessa456

I think paranoia is a tool of social control used by society to keep people in line. If a person's experiences differ too greatly from general human experience, they are told they are imagining it and must be paranoid.

It's a very quick way of shutting a person up - telling them they
must be deluded. What if they aren't? Is the fact they are the only one experiencing something reason enough to think they must be imagining it?

You have a baseline of how people are meant to act and respond to things; if you step outside this you'll be in trouble and most people will say you must be imagining it as they have no frame of refence for it themselves and they want to preserve the status quo.

I think this can happen, but paranoia can be very real sometimes too, like when I get paranoid about looking or being paranoid, which is the most often kind of paranoia I experience. I guess this is a major part of SA

[Mr_Bean]

are you talking about me?

(sorry..:D)

[nessa456]

A lot of the problems termed 'paranoia' are due to a negative feedback loop that the brain gets itself into. The brain acts on the messages we give it so if we think, 'Oh God I'm not looking forward to going there today - I bet people will stare at me/be nasty etc' - we can in effect cause these very things to happen as the brain has been given that message. I find these things are far less likely to happen if my mind is focused on something neutral. This can't be a coincidence - it implies that my own brain is implicated (to a certain extent) in the negative reactions of others.

There is a saying 'whatever you focus on you'll get more of the same' and it's very true. That's what all the 'get rich quick' guides say - focus on making money and nothing else and that's what will happen. Hence focus on people being horrible to you and nothing else...and that's all you'll experience.

Saying that, it can be very hard to find something else to focus on if your brain has been in the habit of focusing on the negative for so long. Sometimes it needs something major to happen in your life to put this negative stuff into perspective.

It can be good to practice having no reaction at all to other people; when the usual feelings of panic occur when a stressful situation arises, if you try and just switch off completely and think 'I dont' care what happens either way' - it definitely helps, as the panic reaction is often what can draw peoples' attention in the first place. If you pretend to be at ease in a stressful situation, your brain learns another way of reacting and this is a way of re-training your brain so that it isn't set off into a panic by the sight of every person in the vicinity.

[lone wolf]

there is one thing worse than being paranoid,its called mononoid.
where as in paranoid you think everyone is looking at you or out to get you,mononoid is even worse....with mononoid you think only one person is out to get you,and everyone else knows who it is, except you..........