Jordan Peterson on Social Anxiety

[Laurel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQGQImrpx4

[Dougella]

^ Given Jordan Peterson's recent mental health struggles I would question this too, nothing is easy to overcome and his own experiences have proved this too.

[choirgirl]

^Indeed. Every step of progress is like pulling teeth. And you can backslide.

[Mr. Nobody]

I'm not sure I like his tone,
He seems very combative, loud, forceful,
Almost as if he has misplaced or repressed anger?

He is teaching ,..on the face of it, ..quite a subtle, delicate point,
And yet his tone is that of attack,
like he is addressing an army troop, getting them ready for battle,..
I'm disappointed by his lack of subtlety and warmth,...

I'm not sure he's entirely correct either to be honest,
about making constant and deliberate eye contact in order to stop social anxiety,
I think doing that may even cause it or exacerbate it in my experience.

[Dougella]

^ Yes from what I've seen of him his tone is quite often a bit irritated if not angry. Sometimes that's justified but in terms of this subject it doesn't really seem to be.

[Lone Dog]

Funny how people who don't have SA can tell you how to overcome it.

[Chess&Junkfood]

Can I have a quick chat with you Laurel? Now here's the thing....

Although before I continue with that thought, I don't believe I've Introduced myself. I'm Chess&junkfood by the way. It's very nice to meet you.

So with regards to this thread, I can offer you a basic support package deal right now. Or another way of putting it, I've very slightly got your back on this thread. And here's why. Now I would imagine your intention with this thread is to help people. And who could argue with that? Now of course it would be different if Jordan was advocating people to goose step towards Poland. And as for the title of the video, Im usually cynical anyway. It's like when people say they sell the world's best coffee and deep down you aren't really surprised when it doesn't taste like the world's best coffee. Or if you just follow these instructions, then you too can double the size of your....

But anyway, let's get back to that basic support package deal. Although I'm sorry I can't offer you the deluxe support package deal right now. Which among other things, would have included a couple of fluffy juggling balls and a glow in the dark biro pen. But what I can offer you is a thumbs up towards wanting to help people on this thread But when it comes to different views from the other great members, then I can only offer a cheery wave towards those great members. After all, this is a democratic forum and it's good to have different viewpoints. I'm also quite fragile as well. So I could very easily be taken apart, limb by limb, by those great members on this thread. In a nice way of course.

[Laurel]

I think when you have social anxiety, you listen to every take somebody might have. And if someone is a 'professor of psychology', personally I think that's even more reason to listen. It might be useful. (even if he does intermingle it with theoretical Freudian bollocks). But each to their own.

[db838]

In his lectures he is quite forceful, I assume they aren't actually aimed at actually treating people with social anxiety. I've seen him doing Q&As with people who have anxiety and it has helped me. Certainly with his idea that the best way of overcoming SA is basically firstly talking about it with somebody to put things into actual perspective and then exposure therapy. He says that you're braver than you think, and while exposure therapy doesn't make you less scared it makes you braver which then eventually makes you less scared. He sounds a bit like Kermit the Frog when he speaks though.

[john smith]

Some of the stuff Jordan Peterson says sound good but he reminds me of L Ron Hubbard. Takes a good game but apparently his own philosophy doesn't help himself given his recent issues with drugs and recurring depression.

[choirgirl]

He often sounds a bit cross. An older man sounding cross while talking to me always makes me feel slightly alarmed.

[roro_1990]

I like his lectures. I remember watching one about existentialism that blew my mind. He discussed the existential perspective in psychology which is that psychopathology is an invariable offshoot of mere existence as humans who are conscious of our own mortality. In that existential perspective, the weight of existence is such that conditions like anxiety and depression are inevitable.

This really resonated with me because all of my biggest fears in life ultimately reduce down to the fear of death. I have suffered from severe health anxiety since I was 12, because I am afraid of death. I fear public speaking because I equate social embarrassment in front of a group of people, a situation one can't escape unless they physically run away, as akin to death. I feel deep depression sometimes because of the sense that life has no meaning and I'm going to die so it's all pointless.

I think as a psychologist, he steps out of his domain unnecessarily sometimes to get involved in political discussions. He doesn't seem to understand socialism all that well. However, I wouldn't hold his own mental struggles against him. He's a fallible human being like the rest of us.

[Amara 94]

I don't mind this video. Yeah, he is in a bad state now, but he is human, he also messes up like we do.

[Jen.]

"Clean your room and eat your beef, bucko." Is that it?

[Amara 94]

I watched the video again. I agree, paying attention makes a social situation better or easier.

However, it's not as simple as paying attention. I think the causes of SA is so broad that there probably isn't a "one size fits all" solution. Recently I think I have had and am having an identity crisis. The good thing about this is that I feel more okay with being who I am than before. I've noticed when I am more at terms with myself it's a bit easier to be less anxious around others and I feel less defensive.

My theory with anxiety is that certain stimulation, processing and thoughts makes it hard to pay attention to the people we are interacting with.

[Laurel]

Originally Posted by Jen.

"Clean your room and eat your beef, bucko." Is that it?

no

[Canned tuna]

I used to like listening to his lectures, but now I find that too often I am left feeling guilty and ashamed of my existence.

Probably not his fault, I guess he needs to remind me how badly I've screwed up my life before he can inspire me to change it

[Dougella]

^ But I don't think that making anyone feel guilty or ashamed is a good thing, or even necessary.

[Amara 94]

Originally Posted by Canned tuna

I used to like listening to his lectures, but now I find that too often I am left feeling guilty and ashamed of my existence.

Probably not his fault, I guess he needs to remind me how badly I've screwed up my life before he can inspire me to change it

I don’t follow JP too much but also don’t hold any strong feelings to him. My opinion, it may change, is if JP makes you feel that way you shouldn’t need to follow him. I think the problem with some modern views on masculinity and success, even femininity is that it puts people in too small of a box. It seems to assume all men should like or want the same thing.

I find the low status/high status men philosophy somewhat true however it’s not as simple as being macho/beta. Maybe it’s about being more true to yourself or following your intuition. I think going against it creates anxiety, depression and insecurity issues. I think that’s my problem with certain views on masculinity.

[Sunrise]

I take his opinions with a pinch of salt, which ironically means that I am actually following his dietary advice.

[Dougella]

^

[Amara 94]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I take his opinions with a pinch of salt, which ironically means that I am actually following his dietary advice.

The carnivore diet apparently works for some people

[GhostOnMagneticTape]

During a therapy session I had, I came to a conclusion I'm being incredibly egocentric, worrying so much about what people think of me, I'm judging people that they are going to judge me. To alleviate my social anxiety, I need to focus on the other person I'm interacting with 100% (paying attention as JP stipulates) with no judgements of myself and the other person, maintain a soft gaze with curiosity, let them finish speaking without interrupting and take my time when responding back.

Being present in the moment is paramount. JP is tops, I like his anger, he uses it effectively in the debates and conversations I've seen. I like to hear a conversation with him and Gabor Mate (who I also admire).

[Dougella]

^See that explanation makes perfect sense and sounds like it would be a good thing for a lot of us with SA to try to do.

I think I struggle somewhat with JP's manner, it puts me off. By contrast I really like Gabor Mate and his gentle manner is a lot easier for me to listen to. Hearing a conversation between the two of them would be very interesting.

[Deer]

Robert Sapolsky, he's brilliant and very thorough.

[Deer]

His lecture on Depression is spot on.

[Counterpoint]

Originally Posted by Lone Dog

Funny how people who don't have SA can tell you how to overcome it.

A bunch of SA sufferers, or any group that likes to bind together in their own misery, can sometimes lead each other off the cliff. The support is great, but occasionally we have to turn to those on the outside and learn from them. We have to pick our positive role models wisely, especially those of us who have not had them in our lives. Positive people can be also be intimidating and challenging and it is up to us to get accept that hand of help and get out of our trap.

[gregarious_introvert]

I've been following this thread, but not posted until now; anyway, I've just posted a reply here, because Russell Brand, in part, is saying the same as Jordan Peterson. I think my main issue with this video is not so much the content, but the word "Easily" in the title!

[AnxiousExtrovert]

I like Jordan Peterson and I think he is very accurate in a lot of his observations.

I think he is particularly good at highlighting logical fallacies in people who are good at repeating an argument from an idealistic point of view without questioning it themselves.

But I do also think Jordan Peterson goes way too far in moralizing natural urges. I understand his frustration in PC going crazy but quite often humans left unchecked will do extremely selfish, hypocritical and poorly thought out actions. I kinda see his arguments really amounting to dog eat dog a lot of times but he will word it or moralize it so it doesnt seem as unreasonable.

The other irony is that Jordan Peterson is religous and believes in the teachings of the bible which really is a book that tries to taper and guide humans away from purely acting on their animal instincts and using empathy and their mind more.

[firemonkey]

I've heard him described as the 'Stupid man's smart person'.