>Something I've learnt about identity<

[black_mamba]

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[Caribou]

Good post - makes a lot of sense. I'm liking that sand turd too

[mg83]

I studied identity at Uni and it really opened my eyes on a few things.

I think everyone spends so much time worrying about their identity and what other people think about them. They'll even do things that maybe don't reflect them but they'll do them because it fits into society better and it looks better to the outside world. But what makes the world unique is when people have different identities and I agree with you that it's about how you treat others rather than anything else.

I guess that's where the world these days can be shallow, as you say there are a couple of stock pieces of information that you find out about people and it immediately shapes your mind about them. Job, where do you live, are you in a relationship, etc. To the outside world, a lot of people judge you on these things, which isn't right. In reality, people should be who they want to be without anyone judging them based on that stock information because there are so many things outside of that. It's all about your heart and soul.

As you say, when you care about someone, all that stock information in a way is irrelevant. I know a couple of people and I couldn't honestly tell you what their exact job description is. It's not that I don't care about them but it's for other reasons they are in my life.

I think you deserve a lot of credit for thinking about this decision. In my mind, people should do what makes them happy (regardless of anything else).

If people aren't interested in finding out about your heart and soul, then if they only judge things on the surface, they aren't worth knowing anyway.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by Poltergeist

Good post - makes a lot of sense. I'm liking that sand turd too

Originally Posted by mg83

I studied identity at Uni and it really opened my eyes on a few things.

What sort of things were you taught?

They'll even do things that maybe don't reflect them but they'll do them because it fits into society better and it looks better to the outside world.

Yes, and sometimes it is so subconscious that it takes a big jolt to the system to make them realise it was not really what they wanted deep down.

I think you deserve a lot of credit for thinking about this decision. In my mind, people should do what makes them happy (regardless of anything else).

As long as it doesn't hurt others, I'm with you on that one.

[W!llow]

True words. The clothes don't make the man. etc.
I do like the giant turd I would laugh but I wouldn't wince.

I just wanted to say that because a lot of people with SA get into this false impression that they are undeserving of friendships because they don't have X, Y or Z or don't do A, B or C, and I believe this couldn't be further from the truth.

Good point. Though even with your post and I think you are a very positive, inspiring person and have a definite idea of what you want I saw a list in my mind one that would make me feel inadequate. But yes, I get the general gist of your post and I agree with it.

[black_mamba]

^What do you mean by a list in your mind W!llow?

[W!llow]

adventurous
creative
energetic

Though I am a bit of some of those things I wouldn't feel I fitted the description. They are very specific. Not that that is a bad thing just you mentioned the x,y and z thing at the end and whilst reading your post that is what I felt. But I am an admirer of the giant poop so maybe I'll pass. What beach is that?

[black_mamba]

I hope you did not misunderstand what I meant by that (sorry if I'm about to confuse you)...what I meant was that each person has their own set of characteristics that they search for in people, regardless of them doing or owning X, Y or Z.

Does that make sense?

In my case I want people to be creative, adventerous and energetic. If not, then we will not have a good enough bond to become friends. I'm not saying those characteristics are the x, y and z.

x could be owning a car
y is having a full time job
z is owning your own house

...for example.

PS. The beach was either Poole or Portsmouth, can't remember which.

[xTKsaucex]

I believe your right, how you treat others and what your interersts are is what your idenity is percived to be. What actions you take are what defines you however.

[des]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

What exactly I was worried of was loosing my outward identity. One of the first things strangers learn about me is my job, and from that can infer certain things (reliable, logical, hard working etc.). Without my job title as a label I might feel bare, and have to express my nature through other means.

No, you shouldn't. You definitely shouldn't feel like it at all.
I left cadets barely year ago, and it was my very strong identity, however I don't feel naked without my label or my 3 stripes on my arm. I am glad I had that experience, and it's up to me to decide whether I want to stick to this identity label or not.

If you decide to leave engineering business, you can still say "I was an engineer" and still see yourself as one. The rest of people can bugger off - it's not up to them to decide.


ps. I am sorry if I made you feel like it in the last PM.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by des

No, you shouldn't. You definitely shouldn't feel like it at all.

I know, that's why I started this thread.

ps. I am sorry if I made you feel like it in the last PM.

Don't be silly, that's SA talking right there.

[W!llow]

Sorry wasn't deliberately being pedantic.

Nice beach. Lots of sand!

[black_mamba]

Enough sand to build a giant sand-pooper scooper.

[W!llow]

or some giant flies to sit on top.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by voodoochild

I always find your posts inspiring mamba. I understand exactly what you are saying.

Cool that's great.

Originally Posted by voodoochild

And nice poo!

Why thankyou!

Originally Posted by W!llow

or some giant flies to sit on top.

Let's get to work!

[W!llow]

*gets bucket and spade*

[E Dub]

Well said

It used to piss me off when my bosses thought I lacked ambition cos I didnt want to become a manager and run more jobs, I was happy doing what I was doing on site (setting out). These bosses were defined by there job title and working dominated there lives, I felt like saying your the ones who lack ambition to ****ing live a bit but I just went along with it and ended up hating my job.
I work to live not live to work.
Too many people are conserned by status over doing what they want to do.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by lilly

sorry if already stated to tired to read all posts. but what career are you thinking of doing?

I'd like to work for a women's charity. I'm volunteering at one now and it's great. I was at a domestic violence conference today and figured it would be great to work more closely with people, maybe at a women's refuge. On the other hand, there are aspects of my current job that are amazing, it is incredibly stable and although there is a lot of high-stress communication involved, it's a lot less than most jobs.

Originally Posted by W!llow

*gets bucket and spade*

Have you got one of these in your back garden?

Originally Posted by Rapport

I've struggled with the whole identity thing for a long time, primarily defying everything that I shouldn't. Being the only male in my families history to not follow the religion in the ways others have. It feels like I'm just beginning, its exciting but f*cking scary.

I know what you mean, with something so open it's hard not to be both scared of the possibilities of going nowhere or excited by the chance of doing great things that make you happy.

Originally Posted by Ukshadow06

I felt like saying your the ones who lack ambition to ****ing live a bit

Completely agree. It's actually really sickening for me to work in an office where I'm in the minority because I don't want to climb the corporate ladder but instead want to stay at the exact same [low] level. Less stress, more fun.

[W!llow]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

Have you got one of these in your back garden?

no 'fraid not.. that's one heck of a slicer/dicer!

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by lilly

to work at a refuge is a challenging but v rewarding job role. i was going to volunteer at the one i was in but decided against, the women that run these centres do fantastic work.

a little off the subject here, but you strike me as having so much confidence and so much self awareness, but yet you suffer with sa, im guessing it only affects you in certain situations?

No actually I have (or had) very bad SA and have only become confident in the last few years because I've been challenging it non-stop for ages (7+ years). I still have my problems. I've been off work for almost half a year due to major stress problems caused mostly by SA. I have phone phobia. I can talk to people face to face with little difficulty now but my body is still telling me I'm being attacked. My brain is almost sorted but my body is not.

I have a healthy level of self-esteem but I still have SA, and I believe that improving your self-esteem is only solving one very small aspect of a very complex puzzle.

I mean, I feel the same about your posts. You strike me as being quite confident about yourself, yet perhaps behind that you suffer from the same anxieties as me.

Can I be nosy and ask why you didn't go into the refuge work? Was it too much social interaction for you?

Originally Posted by BFG

Poole if it was Portsmouth there would be more dog turds, fag ends and used condoms.

LoooooL no sand-turds then?

[kellybean]

Wow, I really liked reading this post - you have summed up the way I think a thousand times better than I could have said it. Out of all of my friends I am the only one in a relatively low paid job, I still live with my parents and naturally I am happy in my own little world, as solitary as it is sometimes. I've been knocked for not going for the higher paid, less secure jobs in order to get the money to get my own place (I'm not so sure that this would be ideal for me anyway, at this time at least) but actually I'm happy with my job and to an extent the way in which I choose to live my life. The turning point for me was meeting an alcoholic, homeless man who had 'everything' and lost it, but he was incredibly intelligent and affable and it made me realise that a lot of things i.e lots of money and possessions are just a cover and some, obviously not all, people just don't appear to have much substance to themselves underneath those things. I would much rather go to sleep knowing that I have helped someone out, than patted myself on the back because I have enough money to fritter away on an overpriced handbag.

I just wanted to say that because a lot of people with SA get into this false impression that they are undeserving of friendships because they don't have X, Y or Z or don't do A, B or C, and I believe this couldn't be further from the truth.

That was a really well said black mamba.

[ponder]

Hmm, even the picture of that item in the sand made me wince a bit.

Anyway, is it really wise to give up a good career in the current climate? While it's probably easier to get back in if you have experience as you do, right now it seems virtually impossible to get a job anywhere. It's just one failure after another for me...

[susie q]

Hi there, I gave up a 20 year career in a well paid job last year. My reasons were different - I found the stress of living up to my expectations of myself too much to cope with any more. However, if you are leaving for a change of career, one thing I would advise is: try and change your career first. Can you go part time? can you take a career break to try things out? Take it from me, once the money runs outs out and you have no pension, it makes you realise how hard you have worked to give yourself security. I'm not saying don't do it - i'm just advising you to be really sure and protect yourself as much as possible. I don't regret leaving, I think i would have had a breakdown had I not - but I now earn in a week what I did in a day and you have to REALLY love your job to do that.

[Mr. Nobody]

Quote : " you are defined by how you behave and how you treat others ".....wow! Black Mamba, you certainly have a way with words,.. that gave me a little bit of a wake-up call.
that actually seems like a really good touchstone by which to gauge your own reality / behaviour, I'm maybe being a bit too hard on myself, as most people who meet me find me helpful & friendly, ..if a little distant, but I did start asking a few searching questions of myself.
I tend to stand on my own past achievements to bolster my "persona" as oppossed to just being aware of how I behave with people on a daily basis.
hope you make the decision that's right for your feelings.
Way too many people are stuck in jobs that don't fulfill them on a personal basis. I know I am, it takes courage to find a job / living that suits you and fulfills you, it's so much easier to simply do the 9 -to- 5 thing, but it's precious time wasted which could be used doing what you enjoy, and reveal to you who you are.
it reminds me of an oft-repeated saying by Jiddhu Krishnamurti, " you can find out who you are in the mirror of relationship "

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by kellybean

I've been knocked for not going for the higher paid, less secure jobs in order to get the money to get my own place

You seem really happy with your situation, good for you, so why should anyone try and dissuade you from it? I'm sure you know this already, but people telling you you should be doing x,y or z are only highlighting their own insecurities. Life is not a race, there are no universal goalposts everyone must reach nor standard set of life experiences you must attain.

Originally Posted by ponder

Hmm, even the picture of that item in the sand made me wince a bit.

Hehe I'm glad it made at least someone wince, otherwise what's the point?

Originally Posted by ponder

Anyway, is it really wise to give up a good career in the current climate? While it's probably easier to get back in if you have experience as you do, right now it seems virtually impossible to get a job anywhere. It's just one failure after another for me...

Originally Posted by susie q

I'm not saying don't do it - i'm just advising you to be really sure and protect yourself as much as possible.

I appreciate the advice, I really do, but I really have this covered.

Here's my plan:
-I'm sticking with engineering part time. Three days a week is ideal in terms of financial support and giving me enough free time to carry on doing my CBT therapy.
-During one of those weekdays off I volunteer for a women's rights charities (already started), and I also do ad-hoc editing for another women's charity. My foot is firmly wedged in the door and I've already made loads of contacts. If I ever decided to switch jobs I have a great way in.

This means that if I do eventually come to the solid decision that I want to switch careers, I can do it easily by relying on my part time engineering job and using the other days to job hunt.

I am also very aware of just how good I have it with my current job, and that perhaps I should realise that doing anything I enjoy for 40hours a week kills enthusiasm. Maybe what I really need is variety, and that's what I'm currently getting!

Basically, I know what I'm doing.

Originally Posted by jerry302199

I tend to stand on my own past achievements to bolster my "persona" as oppossed to just being aware of how I behave with people on a daily basis.

I used to be the same, felt as if I could use past achievements to validate myself and my sense of worth. I now feel that's as stupid as saying I'm a good person because I own a certain object.

If you guys enjoyed this thread perhaps you should all read the book The Rules of Life. It's pretty awesome, and I'll quote some of the part that's relevant to what I've written here:

Know what counts and what doesn't

There are some things in this life that are important and a whole lot of things that aren't. It doesn't take too much discrimination to work out which are which. And there are a whole lot more things that don't count, aren't really important, to choose from. I'm not saying we can't have trivia in our lives - we can and it's fine. Just don't go mistaking trivia for what is really important. Having time for loved ones and friends is important, watching the latest soap isn't. Repaying a debt is important, what branc of washing powder you use isn't. Nurturing our children and teaching them real values is important, dressing them in designer fashion isn't. You get the idea. Think about what you do that counts - and do more of it.

That's only a small snippet from that chapter but it goes to show that a lot of people are wrapped up in trivial things, or tend to judge people on trivial things, and those things are unimportant as are people who base judgements in trivial things. Basically - don't let idiots upset you, they aren't worf it!

[Stig of the dump]

Brilliant post, cant think of much to add which hasn't been said already, but I will add that it got me thinking for years I have been terrified of change and came to present myself as socially awkward, absent minded professor, partly because I am this way naturally, but also because I was allowing others labelling of me to inform my self identity, only over recent months that i have been active is challenging these perceptions