Type what you're thinking about right now (11)

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by anxiouslondoner

^^^^ if these unpleasant jobs didn't exist, what would happen to the people who do them? Maybe there would be more jobs in the vegan food industry, but I expect it is less a lot less labour-intensive.
Not that I feel compelled to change my diet to keep someone in work, but I wouldn't change it to keep someone out of a bad employment situation either.

I'm sure there would be other jobs available since one food source would have to be replaced by others if people were to not go hungry. I don't necessarily think that would mean more better jobs would be available though - there are probably many that are either as or more labour-intensive than abattoir work. Farming usually involves using cheap, often immigrant labour, where workers put in long hours for low wages or are put at risk operating dangerous machinery. Who's to say whether the act of ending animal lives on an industrial scale puts more of a toll on the mind than sewing Gucci handbags for 16 hours a day while your boss dangles the threat of deportation over your head if you don't work fast enough. I don't imagine too many people have decades of experience of both kinds of horrors to compare them. I suppose in an ideal world the awful jobs people do to allow everyone to enjoy their unnecessary pleasures would be made more bearable with better working conditions, higher pay, more rights, etc, rather than one individual picking which can stay or go based on personal opinion.

[Mr. Nobody]

Originally Posted by No Longer Human

I wonder sometimes if people who eat ever think about the mostly working class, mostly immigrant, often female, workforce.

you visited many food factories?

I worked in one for 18 years,. I'm not female, nor an immigrant,
nor was any of the people I worked with.

please be careful about reading stuff online, or in sensationalist tabloid papers then getting ideas about what 'reality' is like,.. you can end up getting a head full of wrong or mistaken ideas about things,
it's very easy to do, I've been guilty of it too,

reality is often never what you imagine it will be like.

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by No Longer Human

I think it is reasonable to mention other industries, but it also disingenuous. My remark was specific, and didn't necessitate a list of counterweights. People are perfectly welcome to post their own throwaway thought, along the lines of "I wonder if any phone users ever think about children in mines in Benin...." for example, if that is something close to their heart that they wish to explore.

Your initial throwaway thought seemed disingenuous because you're probably well aware that people who eat meat never think of such things, think of such things and change their diet as a result, or think of such things and don't change their diet as a result. I've seen you mention the meat paradox before, so it seems that what you were really wondering was how people who eat meat can think about the human suffering involved in the meat industry and yet still continue to eat meat. I mentioned other industries in an attempt to illustrate how we all, including you, choose to enjoy things that are unnecessary and contribute towards the suffering of others. If you can understand your own reasoning behind some of the things you choose to do despite being aware that doing so is contributing towards suffering then you'll have the answer to what you were wondering about.

Originally Posted by No Longer Human

A better example, though, is closer to home. Sex work. Someone might say that there is something demeaning about sex work, but it very hard to pin point exactly what it is. As someone who has paid for sex, I recognise that it is fundamentally morally suspect and that arguments "for" and "against" both skirt whatever that actually is. I could say, though, that though a impoverished female having to have coitus with strangers she is not attracted to (many of which she no doubt finds repugnant) for hours every day is, in some indiscernible sense, demeaned, so is... the old geezer stacking shelves for a living. Such a statement would be very true but also intuitively wrong. What has stacking shelves got to do with it? Intuitively, everyone knows that the harms of prostituted sex - where there are harms to talk of - are worse than the harms - where there are harms to talk of - of working a dull job in Sainsburys. That intuition may or may not be valid. I would suspect that the same is true with killing animals all day for a living - and the fact that, as of course it would, it "becomes a job like any other" kinda proves the point. I assume that most adults would not want to become the type of person that could kill yet another animal and feel next to nothing about doing so.

Yes, someone might say:

"I wonder sometimes if people who use sex workers ever think about the mostly working class, mostly immigrant, often female, workforce that has sex with men they're not attracted to (many of which she no doubt finds repugnant) for hours every day so that others can enjoy an orgasm they have forgotten about within 2 minutes of finishing it. I suspect most people would not consider going home dripping with sweat and sperm - with a sex count in the dozens - a good day in their life - but thank **** for society that it has always had cheap, disposable labour - "unpeople" to use Mark Curtis's word - to keep the madness of industrial civilization going."

Originally Posted by No Longer Human

On another note, 77 billion animals are killed every year. Over a 18 month period, that is more that the number of humans who have existed

I would have probably guessed a higher number than this considering the current human population. I'm not sure what this figure is supposed to indicate though. There are probably more insects eaten by bats every year than the total number of bats who have ever existed, since that's how the food chain works.

[Mike.Kzov]

One food industry I object to is the feeding of trolls. Doesn't do anyone any good.

I'm thinking about pottering in the garden tomorrow as it's supposed to be sunny.

[girlinterrupted]

^C'mon Spring

Wonder if I should cut a full-on fringe again, could be disastrous which in itself is a reason in it's favour.

[Tembo]

I've been following a Youtuber for the past few weeks. A relatively unknown one with just a few thousand followers. A lovely and informative channel. They have recently shot up to hundreds of thousands of followers in a very short space of time and there are now loads of weird creepy messages on all the videos, and this Youtuber has gone very silent over social media. Can't help but feel concerned about this person, because it is a real person behind this YouTube account!

YouTube is great to discover people who you would never usually ever hear about, and to learn about things which isn't on mainstream TV. But like all social media it has a really creepy nasty depressing side, and it's a real shame how that spoils it.

Before these lockdowns, I never really 'followed' YouTubers, and now I watch YouTube more than normal TV. In many ways it can be much better, but in other ways it's worrying and depressing. Ordinary TV feels more 'safe'.

[choirgirl]

Has anyone else ever woken up in their own life and thought: who the hell made all these decisions? These terrible mistakes; one leading to another to another to another, accumulating in a pileup?

[hellotiger]

^I’ve felt like that before, I’m sure many have. I’ve always hoped it was someone else’s mistakes but nay they were my own.


I’m thinking about how I’d like to do one of those ancestry test things. I know already my family are Irish and German but it’d be interesting to see what else is in my blood.

[limey123]

^Done one. I have e.g. 8% Swedish blood - who doesn't want to be a Viking?!

[Percy]

Originally Posted by hellotiger

^I’ve felt like that before, I’m sure many have. I’ve always hoped it was someone else’s mistakes but nay they were my own.


I’m thinking about how I’d like to do one of those ancestry test things. I know already my family are Irish and German but it’d be interesting to see what else is in my blood.

I did one a couple of years ago. Came back as 26% irish, 22%great british, 20% scandinavian and a mixture of western europeon and iberian.

[Tonkin]

Originally Posted by choirgirl

Has anyone else ever woken up in their own life and thought: who the hell made all these decisions? These terrible mistakes; one leading to another to another to another, accumulating in a pileup?

Yes!

But we're not just one person, there are many competing parts of our brain so it's no wonder we don't make consistent decisions.

So don't be too hard on yourself.

[hellotiger]

Originally Posted by Percy

I did one a couple of years ago. Came back as 26% irish, 22%great british, 20% scandinavian and a mixture of western europeon and iberian.

Which surprised you most?

[Percy]

Originally Posted by hellotiger

Which surprised you most?

That the irish was so large. I knew there was irish ancestory on my dads side but i didn't realise it was so much. Also where the scandanavian came from, i wasn't aware i had any scandanavian ancestory

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by Jen.

Yes, someone might say:

"I wonder sometimes if people who use sex workers ever think about the mostly working class, mostly immigrant, often female, workforce that has sex with men they're not attracted to (many of which she no doubt finds repugnant) for hours every day so that others can enjoy an orgasm they have forgotten about within 2 minutes of finishing it. I suspect most people would not consider going home dripping with sweat and sperm - with a sex count in the dozens - a good day in their life - but thank **** for society that it has.

You are doing what people always do - taking the moral high ground on something that upsets you personally. Clearly, the idea of immigrants being exploited angers you. Fine. The fact that Asian, or Eastern European, girls are trafficked into sex work disgust me as well. Yet you have no problem admitting that you eat meat. Surely all forms of cruelty and suffering should be condemned? The meat industry is an utter horror show, involving unimaginable amounts of suffering.

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by Orwell20

You are doing what people always do - taking the moral high ground on something that upsets you personally. Clearly, the idea of immigrants being exploited angers you. Fine. The fact that Asian, or Eastern European, girls are trafficked into sex work disgust me as well. Yet you have no problem admitting that you eat meat. Surely all forms of cruelty and suffering should be condemned? The meat industry is an utter horror show, involving unimaginable amounts of suffering.

You're making a lot of assumptions about me there. I was simply using NLH's example (paraphrasing a quote from him - as seen in post 24835) to help him to understand the thing he was pretending to have trouble understanding, as explained in the paragraph before the one you quoted. I was saying how can someone have trouble understanding how others can turn a blind eye to one form of suffering while enjoying the product of that suffering when they do exactly the same thing (since we all do). I never mentioned anything as upsetting or angering me and I didn't take a moral position on anything either

[Percy]

Originally Posted by Nanuq

^ Think that's just the historical make up of Britain. there's about a million people descended from the Vikings, so it's not necessarily recent Scandinavian ancestry.

That's true. I'm also surprised my western europeon count wasn't high given my great grandad was german.

[Percy]

I am apparently distantly related to the von trapp family. He moved to england to be with my great grandmother, i'm not aware of any german relatives.

[limey123]

Originally Posted by Nanuq

I'd be gobsmacked if I wasn't mostly viking, my family all have very pale blue eyes and are built like brick **** houses.

[choirgirl]

That I missed celebrating my ten year SA UK anniversary. Twas last month.

And that my head is full of cottonwool. That's the trouble with coming back online: too many feelings. I'm finding it hard to concentrate on the business of life. Making ££ and what have you. Adulting. I need to find a way to be able to consistently make enough ££ to cope with adult life on my own without burning out; this has been a lifelong problem of mine. And yet, my motivation is so very low.

[choirgirl]

Limey, at least you have tried something new and succeeded in getting this job. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. It is so hard with a neurological difference, but at least you know not to blame yourself; that is so much worse, to not know what is wrong and to just think, I'm being crap.

[choirgirl]

My friend's teenage daughter has her first boyfriend. So I'm looking at the photo of them together, going, oh my God, we're so old, aw, he looks nice, ask questions about him etc. But then later, it hits me and I'm going, so ... you just grow up and you just naturally meet someone and you're mutually attracted and you go out and you tell your parents and ... that's it? That's it?! There's no twelve labours of Hercules to go through?! That's it?! ****ing hell.

Before some of the guys on the forum start yelling at me, yes, I am thinking about it more from a girl's perspective. I have a lot of oddities about me, so I'd have probably made a hash of being straight. It's entirely possible I wouldn't have ended up in that different of a situation. (And as a young woman I probably would have worried about all sorts of things I couldn't take that seriously). I just think, how much easier to be straight AND normal. It must save so much time.

[Sisyphus]

Hi Limey,

Sorry to hear you are struggling but don't fire the ejector seat just yet, it has a good chance of being an instrumentation problem.

You are flying well outside your comfort zone, your limbic system has gone to DEFCON 1, and your hyper-vigilance is turned up to 11. It is going to be a bumpy ride for a bit.

If you are like me I guess you are trying to process every little bit of information coming in and extrapolating it out to infinity, that is hard to do.

I find my mindfulness, relaxation, and positive self talk can help at times like this.

Don't forget you are high functioning and that will make you good at the job once the initial shock calms down a bit.

Feel free to PM if you like.

[Mr. Nobody]

I'm currently mulling over the possibilities of a new username,

Disgruntled introspective contemplative haemophilliac lumberjack,
or,
Pessimistic opportunistic, slightly mystic, vaguely artistic voyeuristic couch potato,

Then there's ;

Deeply suspicious mindfully vicious often ambitious carrot,

Or,

Worryingly officious self-effacing issues needing some tissues because of my issues callydocious..

Then there's:

Internal combustion infernal disruption secret corruption, let's call the whole thing off,..

I'm worried that they might be deemed too wordy?

[twosocks]

I'm wondering if anyone else gets a fizzy feeling on the back of their neck when they're hungry.

[Tubbs]

Urgh, I think the cat's done a poo. 😐

[biscuits]

My right ear is all fuzzy, like it's got a little pompom inside it or something. It's feels so strange!

[choirgirl]

Sometimes I feel like a combination of Mark and Jeremy from Peep Show. The uptightness and self-loathing of Mark, and the lack of togetherness and missing national insurance contributions of Jeremy. It's a war. It's deadlock. If at least one of them had won (Mark please), I might have got somewhere.

[choirgirl]

^Better than the other way around!

[choirgirl]

God, I was so close to sorting everything years ago. That's what you get for getting the sads and avoiding things for the whole of the 21st century. It's a trip.

[biscuits]

^ relatable x 1726272

p.s. are you in a choir?