Do you believe in God or anything?

[Caribou]

Brought up catholic, now an atheist.

[PussyRiot]

Originally Posted by Tecumseh

Brought up catholic, now an atheist.

I was brought up a catholic too - I haven't set foot inside a church since I left home. I wouldn't trust a catholic priest as far as I could throw him

[diplodocus]

I believe in evolution. It's amazing. We are so lucky. Enjoy your life while you have it

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by Tecumseh

Brought up catholic, now an atheist.

Originally Posted by smellycat

I was brought up a catholic too - I haven't set foot inside a church since I left home. I wouldn't trust a catholic priest as far as I could throw him

Yeah likewise. Think it's interesting that the young generation in Ireland (from talking to my irish relatives) are on the whole quite anti-religion and Catholicism in particular.

[PussyRiot]

Originally Posted by retep

I agree, even some atheists try to force there beliefs on others and that is, no offence, as annoying as religious ppl who try and force there religion onto others.

Each to their own.

That is true, except that you don't get loads of agnostics or atheists killing people, starting wars or oppressing people, unlike religion which is responsible for most wars, oppression and hatred.

[PussyRiot]

Originally Posted by diplodocus

Yeah likewise. Think it's interesting that the young generation in Ireland (from talking to my irish relatives) are on the whole quite anti-religion and Catholicism in particular.

That is refreshing to hear Diplodocus. I watched a really disturbing play about young Irish girls who were sent off to work as slave labour to a place run by nuns and a catholic priest (they had to take in laundry and worked like slaves while the nuns made a huge profit) because they had got pregnant or even for something as small as chatting to boys in the school playground. Apparently these labour camps were still running up to as late as 1992 before they were shut down. Four of the women who were sent to these camps wrote the play. It was deeply shocking. I think it did a lot of harm to the catholic church in Ireland.

[timmyb]

I don't really believe in god, although I have to admit that that can suddenly change if I'm in danger.Pathetic I know, but true.As the saying goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes."
I do believe in science quite a bit.Or at least the bits that can be demonstrated to be true.I think there's quite a bit of hogwash at the theoretical level though.
Astronomy in particular fills me with a sense of wonder, a kind of blind faith that there is something going on that must have some sort of purpose.I just don't ever expect to know what that purpose is, and I'm happy with it like that.

[Caribou]

Originally Posted by smellycat

I was brought up a catholic too - I haven't set foot inside a church since I left home. I wouldn't trust a catholic priest as far as I could throw him

Indeed

[Spock]

Originally Posted by AlienBuddha

but have no belief in god(s), I think it such a silly irrational concept to do so (like believing in Santa and fairies).

Almost as silly and irrational as believing people are looking at you/judging you when they're not

Originally Posted by tortoiseshell

All religions are the same. It's a whole bunch of people who believe in something that can't be proven.

likewise....SA?

When i'm being rational, i find the idea of Gods/afterlife and such just too ridiculous to accept but humans have a very emotional side that often contradicts reason (Kirk/Spock) and we can't always dismiss our emotional responses even in times when we rationalise them (this site is built on people allowing their emotions to dominate reason!)

My only issue with religionists is when they attempt to justify belief with rational arguments (and even science) i will be tempted to shout "idiots" at those people but if someone is making a case for God based on an emotional belief (and they acknoledge their belief is entirely emotional) then i'll happily keep my dislike of religion to myself - If you ever hear the words, i'm afraid it's malignant and aggressive and spreading come your way then your first reacton would not be to seek out reason, it would be emotional (and it wouldn't matter if reason eventually returned to the front of your mind because that initial emotional response is not easily frightened off by reason)

[iTz0kt0Bu]

Originally Posted by smellycat

That is true, except that you don't get loads of agnostics or atheists killing people, starting wars or oppressing people, unlike religion which is responsible for most wars, oppression and hatred.

You also don't get lots of religious ppl killing ppl or starting wars and hatred, lets be real ere.

[iTz0kt0Bu]

Originally Posted by timmyb

I don't really believe in god, although I have to admit that that can suddenly change if I'm in danger.Pathetic I know, but true.As the saying goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes."
I do believe in science quite a bit.Or at least the bits that can be demonstrated to be true.I think there's quite a bit of hogwash at the theoretical level though.
Astronomy in particular fills me with a sense of wonder, a kind of blind faith that there is something going on that must have some sort of purpose.I just don't ever expect to know what that purpose is, and I'm happy with it like that.

According to the Sociology I learnt, the most liberal, financially secure countries are more likely to be secular than less financially secure countries.

[Amber Fyre]

I wish I did.

I find it hard to cope at times not believing there is anything else. But I can't trick myself into believing in something.

[PussyRiot]

Originally Posted by retep

You also don't get lots of religious ppl killing ppl or starting wars and hatred, lets be real ere.

How can you say that Retep? I must respectfully disagree - look through history - the whole of Europe were killing each other during the reformation. Protestants and catholics hacking each other to death for years. Look at the middle East now? Every war has been to do with religion. Even if you go back in time to the middle ages - woman burned at the stake for being witches. People believed back then that the King of England got there because he was appointed by god and look at all the bloodshed caused by the Kings and Queens of Englad. Seriously so much bloodshed throughout history and currently, caused by religion. Religion and the church are exclusive, divisive and spread hatred.

That is why I am Spiritual and believe in God (in whatever form that is) and I believe I am a soul, but it begins and ends there for me. I would never visit a church, a synagogue, a mosque - religion is not what spirituality is about. If people worship in a certain place, and wear a certain costume and say that what they believe is correct, and what other 'religions' believe is wrong, the that is surely divisive, arrogant and misplaced.

[VO2]

I believe this..

“Not a single one of the cells that compose you knows who you are, or cares.”
***8213; Daniel C. Dennett, Sweet Dreams: Philosophical Obstacles to a Science of Consciousness

[[Martin]]

Originally Posted by smellycat

How can you say that Retep? I must respectfully disagree - look through history - the whole of Europe were killing each other during the reformation. Protestants and catholics hacking each other to death for years. Look at the middle East now? Every war has been to do with religion. Even if you go back in time to the middle ages - woman burned at the stake for being witches. People believed back then that the King of England got there because he was appointed by god and look at all the bloodshed caused by the Kings and Queens of Englad. Seriously so much bloodshed throughout history and currently, caused by religion. Religion and the church are exclusive, divisive and spread hatred.

I can see your point here but I'm not sure I entirely agree. I think human motivations (greed, revenge etc) remain largely constant, but the belief framework we operate in is ever evolving. Wheat poisoning in the 18th century was interpreted as witchcraft because of the widely held belief in God. Mental illness in the early 20th century was curable by operations because we had made advancements in physiology. The royal family ruled over us by appointment of a higher power, but now, in an attempt to remain relevant, they have become like celebrities and seem to spend half their time showing how "normal" they are.

[iTz0kt0Bu]

Originally Posted by smellycat

How can you say that Retep? I must respectfully disagree - look through history - the whole of Europe were killing each other during the reformation. Protestants and catholics hacking each other to death for years. Look at the middle East now? Every war has been to do with religion. Even if you go back in time to the middle ages - woman burned at the stake for being witches. People believed back then that the King of England got there because he was appointed by god and look at all the bloodshed caused by the Kings and Queens of England. Seriously so much bloodshed throughout history and currently, caused by religion. Religion and the church are exclusive, divisive and spread hatred.

^The truth

Ok, I admit I dunno much about wars but I'm sure some of them have been caused by political (non religious) causes. Well the majority of religious Westerners don't kill each other nowadays.

Problems of the world come from many things not just religion.

[[Martin]]

Originally Posted by Tabitha

Ok, so if a person is of Muslim faith, then they are automatically in agreement with terrorism??? because of the fanatics?

I am not a Muslim, but just using this as an examplie.

Some people, even if there were no such thing as religion, would still start arguments, wars, and kill.

I was not supposed to be posting again and I promise not to

Is that directed at me?

[iTz0kt0Bu]

Originally Posted by Tabitha

...and religious beliefs have also helped a lot of people and brings them great comfort too, and can also do a lot of good, for example charities, hospitals and so on.
It is not the religion you need to blame, it is some of the evil people who use their religious beliefs to cause the problems. There are a lot of people who believe in whatever religion it may be, who do a lot of good, are very good people and who are very peace loving.


I am not posting on this thread anymore.

Exactly

It's also how you interpret religious teachings, whether religion is good or bad is too subjective to decide.

[PussyRiot]

You don't need to be religious to be a good person, donate to charity, treat people as you wish to be treated. You don't need to call yourself a name and go to a particular church or building, or read only one book or wear a particular costume to give good things to this world.

I believe in God and I try to be a good person, but religion is a human construct, nothing to do with being a decent, loving, peaceful person. In fact if God could speak I am sure he/she/it would say 'if that is religion, please keep me out of it.'

It is individuals that make this world a better place by their thoughts and their actions, not institutions.

[iTz0kt0Bu]

^ Ppl of most beliefs can be good.

[PussyRiot]

I am not religious but I donate to charity, have not eaten meat since I was 7 and have demonstrated against war in Iraq, nuclear missiles. I have campaigned for Amnesty International and got involved with women's rights issues in Pakistan. I try and live simply and I try to live a frugal, sustainable life. I don't belong to any religion. You don't need a particular doctrine to be a decent human. The good people who are Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists etc, would all be decent people anyway I reckon. As the Quakers believe, God's light shines in everyone of us, not just in people revered as more worthy of this than others i.e The Pope, The Archbishop of Canterbury etc. You can go to church every Sunday and not be a particularly 'good' person. When it comes down to it, all the religions are saying basically the same thing - it is the interpretation of this by religious leaders that is where it becomes dangerous. It is the institution of religion that I have problem with. Individuals will only change things for the better. Look at the Humanist movement - that is one example of a movement that is not religious but probably practices what a lot of people would call Christian surely?

[iTz0kt0Bu]

^^ I agree that you dont have to be religious or go places of worship to be a good person but ppl have their reasons.

I'm agnostic myself and don't go church, but the church can have its benefits.

[David K]

I take the same view as Steven Weinburg.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

[black_mamba]

^That's a very interesting quote!! I like it but dislike this black and white idea of good and bad people. Psychologists have discovered that under certain circumstances good people can do bad things. Whether that makes them ["good" people] inherently not-so-good or not I guess is up for debate.

[iTz0kt0Bu]

^I agree

^^I bet these American serial teen killers didn't get inspired to kill by religion.

[David K]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

^That's a very interesting quote!! I like it but dislike this black and white idea of good and bad people. Psychologists have discovered that under certain circumstances good people can do bad things. Whether that makes them ["good" people] inherently not-so-good or not I guess is up for debate.

Agreed, it's a simplistic view. People are easily influenced by others. I do think that religion installs a very accessible 'back door' into a person's mind that other people can easily exploit. It's also easier to justify one's own prejudices if you can find a handy piece of scripture to back you up, eg homosexuals are 'abominations'.

Originally Posted by retep

^I agree

^^I bet these American serial teen killers didn't get inspired to kill by religion.

Simplistic again. No one is suggesting that all violence is religiously motivated, or that all religious people are violent. I'm definitely suggesting that religion increases the sum total of violence in the world though.



I reckon I'm one of those antitheists that Geddalexneil mentions. Let's see if I can justify it without sounding like a massive bigot.

I'm perfectly fine with people choosing to be religious, in fact I would fight against any attempts to take that right away. People should be free to do what they want to do, no matter how silly and irrational.

Originally Posted by hux

Almost as silly and irrational as believing people are looking at you/judging you when they're not

I like this quote because it gets to the heart of the matter. We're all here because we have SA. I don't hate people who suffer from SA, but I do hate SA! SA is caused by a malfunction in our thought processes that makes us behave irrationally, just like religion. Let's have another quote, from Johann Hari.

I respect you as a person too much to respect your ridiculous beliefs.

We don't 'respect' social anxiety, we hate it and want to escape from it!



I said that I'm fine with people choosing to be religious, and I am. It's often not a choice though. People pass on their religious beliefs to their children, long before the kids are capable of deciding for themselves what they think. In the eyes of a child, grown ups are infallible and are there to protect us, so when they say "there's a god who made everything and he sees everything you do, and you have to follow his rules or you'll be condemned to infinite torture" the kid will totally trust their word. Once an idea like that takes root, it's very hard (and distressing) to get rid of it. I don't blame the parents for damaging their children's minds, I blame the religion that tells them it's the right thing to do. I feel especially strongly about the religions that include the concept of Hell. Teaching a small child that something as terrifying as Hell exists is a monstrous form of child abuse.

Final point: I am technically agnostic. That doesn't mean I'm on the fence about the existence of god, it means that I accept I can't know for sure that god doesn't exist, and if evidence for the existence of god ever comes to light, I'll believe in god. I will then call god a massive bastard for playing hide-and-seek for millennia and making everyone miserable. I hope Hell doesn't turn out to exist too, or I'll know that god is evil (infinite torture, god, seriously?!) and therefore won't be allowed into Heaven.

[black_mamba]

Originally Posted by David K

Agreed, it's a simplistic view. People are easily influenced by others. I do think that religion installs a very accessible 'back door' into a person's mind that other people can easily exploit. It's also easier to justify one's own prejudices if you can find a handy piece of scripture to back you up, eg homosexuals are 'abominations'.

Yes and since holy scriptures reflect on the people who wrote them and the times they were written, they're full of all sorts of inaccuracies, unreasonable ideas about what it means to be good/bad and guidelines for living your life. Fine if you agree with all those beliefs (caveat being you've not been brainwashed from youth), but the whole purpose of a set of beliefs is that we cannot question them. It's the very antithesis of rational, open-minded thinking.

[PussyRiot]

I once heard that there is an inscription on a gravestone (not sure where) that reads 'I now know more than the wisest amongst you' - or something like that - anyway that just about sums it up.

I think the reason I am so against 'religion' is that in 2009 (I didn't realise I was having a nervous breakdown at the time), I got involved with a sect. They gradually hooked me in to the point that I left my husband to live with them for six months. They convinced me that I was 'special', that the world was going to end and I would be saved but all my family would die, that I must get up at 4am every day to meditate because that was 'Baba's' time for his most loyal followers, they tried to isolate me and would not tell me when my husband had visited, they got me to give them all my money and they even convinced me to wear a white robe for morning meditation - I was so ill and vulnerable that I just went along with it. I woke up one day and fled and it took me over a year to get over the conditioning and I was convinced that I was going to hell. It wasn't until I found a group of people who were recovering from joining a cult that I realised how subtle it had been i.e getting you up early and making you tired, filling you with high carb food so you would be sleepy and more susceptible, convincing you that you were special and gradually removing you from friends, and then telling you the world would end - Nowadays, even if I go to meditation or yoga or anything like that, as soon as there is even a hint of pressure to worship some doctrine/god/ritual I am off out the door like my a*se is on fire!

[iTz0kt0Bu]

^ I also don't like sects, have you heard of Peoples temple, ppl were brainwashed into killing their selves.

Although it's true religion can be used to fuel some evil, it has also help cause equality. For example, it helped The Civil Right movement since it have Black Americans a relative source to help end segregation, since 1960s USA was mostly Christian, teachings like "treat your neighbour as you want to be treated", "love thy neighbour"challenged segregation. And church helped bring ppl together, although I know there are other ways.

Religion has also helped ethnic minorities settle into different societies since it includes some values from the culture they came from and since it also helps ppl coming from other cultures meet ppl who share some values and traditions to them.

[PussyRiot]

Originally Posted by retep

^ I also don't like sects, have you heard of Peoples temple, ppl were brainwashed into killing their selves.

I can well believe that Retep.