Why is meeting more people the answer?

[Sunrise]

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[Dougella]

I don't think it necessarily is for some people. Or at the very least just meeting people or being around people in general isn't necessarily helpful in itself.

In your case it sounds like the place you live hasn't been the best for you and moving somewhere less small might be a good idea.

[biscuits]

Forming supportive and healthy friendships is more about regularly spending time with people that you have meaningful connections with, and that tends to be in places where you spend time regularly with the same people, rather than one off meetings. Meeting people is essential, but it's not necessarily the solution especially if the struggles are around forming connections. Looking into that is the first step because as you say, it ends up being unpleasant experiences that confirm negative thoughts.

It's difficult when you live in tiny place. So it will be a case of making opportunities happen by getting away from there and going to a place with more options - when it's practically possible. But also finding support for the parts of making friendships that you find hard.

[biscuits]

Yeas, the solution isn't to keep trying to meet people when you find the mechanics of it difficult. It's like sitting in a tank and hoping to be able to drive it without the necessary experience and training.

It's always good to be open to the idea that we might not have the healthiest of solutions to the things we struggle with and that a professional might be best placed for that.

[Merry]

My well-being has plummeted since starting my MA and having to mix with people once a week.
It started off not too bad, but the more I see the same group the worse I feel. (as usual)
It's starting to make me feel ill and I am struggling to see how to keep up with the course, though it's only once a week in person.

I even started by making sure I was more open and told people I was autistic, but I don't think people really understand what that means and they don't make any allowance for me. I feel like I'm still being judged despite explaining why I might not mix well.
It's very saddening.

When you discuss these issues online among people who might be neurodivergent, or have social anxiety or a history of mental health issues it seems to make sense to feel ok in yourself, we're all decent people with value, but then you go out and mix with people who have just never thought much about any of these things and they just make you feel rubbish. I suppose they just take everyone at face value, without any care about what makes people tick.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'm not sure how helpful being open about mental health stuff is really. People talk a good game these days when it comes to "mental health awareness", but when actually faced with it many don't seem to have a clue how to respond or what to say or do.

I would be very wary about discussing any of my issues with anyone else as I've been burnt before. Being open about my mental health issues turned me into a laughing stock. When it falls into the wrong hands it just becomes a stick to beat you with. I think some people overestimate just how compassionate and empathetic people really are. Feeling depressed because you've split up with your partner is one thing, people can relate to that, but anything beyond that tends to scare people. Nobody wants to deal with the scary stuff. I've got a reputation now as one of the local nutters. It's probably deserved, but it's impossible to shake off. Everywhere I go locally I know that's how people see me.

Fair point about the mental health awareness stuff. Be selective about it and don't divulge it to strangers or new people. Make a joke about it if you do. With friends or people you can open up with, if that's available, then that can be a good thing and make you feel less ashamed.

It can scare people but I've met some people who have gone through proper shit who I absolutely needed to talk to at the time or I would of been dead.

Also, screw the place you live in wherever it may be. You hate it, the impression you give is your life is immensely difficult and you feel f*****, you prefer big cities, job is not amazing where you are. You're therefore actually in a great place, paradoxically to move away. The people in your town or village are not your people. Accept it. Maybe you are a more compassionate person than them. In which case their loss. How easy it is to say when you have SA, and coming from myself lol, but cut them out of your head. Go somewhere else and stop torturing yourself. I had a case where people didn't like me and thought I was there to snitch on them (seriously) so I do get it before you say I don't.

[Mr. Nobody]

My feeling is that it's possibly more beneficial for some people with SA to learn how to just be relaxed around more people rather than simply engaging & interracting with more people on a social / psychological level.?

I think it's more empowering to learn how to feel comfortable in your own space around people,
Maybe connecting more on a social level can come later?

I'd also say that you need to be smart and kind of pick your battles as it were,
Throwing yourself in at the deep end with strangers can often backfire and leave you actually feeling worse,

But if you can, I'd advise carefully picking and choosing your situations to meet people in and grow your social self-confidence slowly and carefully,.

Too much exposure is every bit as damaging as no exposure.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I've come to the realisation that I need to start avoiding people more and doing as little as I can socially.

Mixing with others is killing me. I can't hack it. It's absolutely destroyed my mental health. My confidence and self-esteem has plummeted since I started mixing with others.

I don't understand because it's supposed to be a good thing? Mixing with others is supposed to be helping me, but it hasn't, it's completely ruined me.

I don't understand how so many of my life experiences are so different to the norm? I know the problem is with me rather than others, but the things that are supposed to be helping me are having the opposite effect.

Living in a small close knit community has been very detrimental to my mental health, but again, it's supposed to be a good thing? I would love to live in a big city where I could be anonymous and left alone.

I feel completely ostracised and cut off from the rest of society. The more I am out there mixing with others, the more I realise it. Is the solution to just accept this and learn to start avoiding people more? I'm still desperate to be "normal" though. I don't want to live as an outsider but no matter how hard I try I can't seem to change other people's perceptions of me.

Why has it ruined you? I know you posted the thread about CBT, but I think some kind of rational therapy would be good for you. Try reading the Thomas Richards Overcoming SA step by step book on amazon and on kindle too. You will resonate with the stuff on ANTs.

Good thing, bad thing, do whatever works better for you.

Perhaps your "vibe" is off. I really don't know. But I think if you have higher self-esteem and less stress it will be easier for people to connect. Then maybe some social skills training if still needed. Try therapy or the EFT thing I posted which starts on jan 1st (totally free in cost), or if it's trauma then I can recommend something.

If the interaction is killing you that much then maybe for a while just do easy easy things.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody

My feeling is that it's possibly more beneficial for some people with SA to learn how to just be relaxed around more people rather than simply engaging & interracting with more people on a social / psychological level.?

I think it's more empowering to learn how to feel comfortable in your own space around people,
Maybe connecting more on a social level can come later?

I'd also say that you need to be smart and kind of pick your battles as it were,
Throwing yourself in at the deep end with strangers can often backfire and leave you actually feeling worse,

But if you can, I'd advise carefully picking and choosing your situations to meet people in and grow your social self-confidence slowly and carefully,.

Too much exposure is every bit as damaging as no exposure.

Funny, I was just reading the Dr Thomas Richards book and you've literally said what he said in that order.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

That kind of therapeutic approach is targeted more towards overcoming anxiety, which isn't really my main issue.

I'm quite out of place on this forum really, as "social anxiety" is more of a symptom of a much wider issue for me. CBT is all well and good for anxiety, but it's little more than a sticking plaster when there's other things going on.

Derealisation and depersonalisation seem to my biggest issues I think. I have no idea who I am or what's really going on to be honest. The person I am feels completely fake, and it doesn't feel like me. I don't even know what I look like. I look in a mirror and I just think "****, that's not who I am or who I'm supposed to be". That's what effects my relationships as it's probably impossible to get to really know me let alone be friends or anything more than that. I get very upset with people these days as the person they see isn't who I see. Being a socially-awkward, middle aged Matt Hancock lookalike doesn't feel like who I should be at all,but I don't know what I actually should be. This whole idea of self-acceptance doesn't work because I struggle to know what's real and what isn't.

I feel terrified when I'm with others because I don't know what's actually real. Not in a psychotic way, but I have no idea who I am, how people see me, or what I even actually look like. I feel like I'm witnessing someone else. I can't even say it's like I'm playing a part because it's not like a deliberate act, I'm just these strange characters who aren't really me. That probably sounds completely mad, but it's not in a psychotic way, I don't know how to describe it but it isn't that.

That's what scares me when I'm with other people.

You can use rational thinking for anything. It may be a sticking plaster, but it can serve a purpose whilst you need time to sort out the longer-term issues.

Matt Hancock looks normal, just needs a better haircut, seriously. Someone who looks like him wouldn't get anyone on a street staring at him going "omg he looks so weird".

I have depersonalisation-derealisation disorder. You may have a dissociative disorder too. It sounds like maybe some kind of unstable, fragmented un-integrated identity and personality. Definitely some therapy for you mister. I think you need something that goes much deeper. Is it trauma? What you describe immediately makes me think of someone who has gone through intense trauma, but I'm not sure that you have? Maybe some adverse life experiences have impacted you in this way.

Of course feeling like this would make a social interaction scary. Lots of frightening and unusual things happening whilst talking to people, plus a little bit of social anxiety makes it very hard to connect with anyone.

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I get my haircut once a month. I put a lot of effort into my appearance. I'm all about self-improvement and I'm constantly looking at ways to better myself. A lack of effort is the one thing nobody can ever accuse me of. My troubles aren't caused by a bad haircut, nor not "hitting the gym". I have difficulties with self-perception and I look very different in my head to how others see me. It's almost like a sort of reverse body dysmorphia. I don't get stared at in the street but I do get a lot of "banter" about being the ugly one.

I've seen more therapists than I've had hot dinners. I wouldn't trust most of them as far as I could throw them. There's nothing I haven't already been told a thousand times before. Most of them seem to follow the same script and I pretty much know it all word for word now. Last time I saw someone I shook my head and chuckled when I heard them repeating the same old stuff.

Therapists aren't there to listen to your woes, that's a myth, they're more like teachers who are there to show you different techniques and coping strategies. I already know all that, and to be fair, it's useful info when it comes to dealing with the physical feeling of anxiety in the heat of the moment, but it doesn't touch on anything deeper than that. Therapy isn't an "anything goes" situation, a therapist will have their own structured lesson plan where there are specific things they'll want to show you in each session, and they're not interested in deviating from that. Normally it's made clear that certain things are not up for discussion, you're there to listen not to debate. That's the problem I've had in the past and why I'm seen as a difficult patient, because I have a tendancy to challenge them rather than just smile and nod, and that's not how it's supposed to work.

Who *exactly* are these people that say you are ugly?

I've had the opposite experience in therapy. Not much structured stuff and more exploration of what I am saying. I recommend you try psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy. That is very different to what you have tried so far and is literally all about "anything goes". That is the very heart of that style so it sounds right up your street. Never have I had a situation where I am not allowed to discuss anything . What type of therapy have you had then?

[Hopeforme]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

That was my experience with the IAPT service, which I found very disappointing. It mostly involved them printing off worksheets for me to take home and involved very little discussion of my thoughts, feelings and emotions or going into things I had experienced in the past. It was like being back at school, it wasn't how I imagined therapy at all. Whenever I tried to talk about certain things that were playing on my mind I was met with a blank look like they didn't know how to respond and they would quickly change the subject.

I've always had "ugly" jokes because it's an obvious thing that people pick up on about me. I don't find it that offensive these days but I see it as very lazy humour. I wouldn't mind being insulted if people actually put a bit of effort into it. I mostly try and shrug it off as a lot of the time it's probably just intended as "banter" but I find it hurtful at times because there is an element of truth to it. It's a normal part of life really, everyone gets jokes about something don't they? My problem is more how it tends to mess with my own self-perception.

I think IAPT does short-term, targeted intensive therapies in exactly the style you mentioned. What you need is longer-term psychotherapy where you can explore all the things we discussed in a different way unpicking everything. I know a place in London but that might be impossible if you live on the other side of the country. Search for psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapists/places.

Well I think repeatedly being told or joked about your looks is going to wear someone down. It's pretty obvious to me that it will affect your confidence big time if its gone on for years. Can you tell them you don't like it and to stop doing it? I don't know anyone who jokes around like that, so probably it's the people you hang around with in which case think about sacking them off and getting new people, or its that shit area of yours you keep mentioning in which case try to move!

[Dougella]

Unfortunately the NHS mental health services seem to be dominated by CBT type models of therapy and if people want to see a therapist for psychodynamic or psychoanalytic therapy they have to search for a private therapist. It really is a shame.

[Merry]

It is a shame.
I was given six weeks of cbt therapy on the NHS, which was very much as Sunrise described, very basic worksheets about my mood and things like daily activities.
I did have quite an insightful practitioner however who (maybe because she was foreign and had trained elsewhere) did talk to me more in depth and she felt I had some very complex issues arising from cptsd. She said that the cbt wasn't really appropriate and that really I needed much longer, more in depth therapy, but that there was nothing she could really do within the perimeters of the cbt, and that the NHS only do short term cbt.

At least she was adept enough to recognise this and explain it, which might have been a helpful thing for you, Sunrise, rather than you going away thinking that you're at fault for the therapy not working, rather than the therapy being offered via the NHS was wholly inadequate for your needs.